292 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Pauravi wrote...

LN19 wrote...

Humanoid shape isn't nearly enough to justify attraction...

Actually, in general yes it is.  There are a few certain characteristics that people (especially males) look for in a figure, whether we know it or not.  Hips, bust, and curves in certain places are really all that we need to set it off.  That's why you can even have just abstract shapes that look like a woman and yet be considered erotic (think those chrome woman shapes on truck mudflaps).

Yes, but only at first glance, as long as the attraction is transmissed through the visual sense. Once you draw near, other aspects become important, particularly smell.

But the silliness does not lie in the assumption that humans are attracted to aliens with humanoid shapes, like Tali's. They clearly are, or would be, or we wouldn't have this discussion. The complete nonsense lies in the assumption that so many aliens develop features that look attractive to humans in the first place. Look at life on Earth, and how little evolution it takes for speciation into forms that we don't find at all attractive. Our nearest relatives, for instance. How many species of all the millions we have on Earth have human-compatible attraction triggers? Exactly none! One concludes that sexual attraction triggers are extremely species-specific. In the face of this, it should be considered an absolute miracle if even one alien species existed with human-compatible attraction triggers. In an even remotely plausible SF universe, such a thing should be considered a major defining feature, requiring an extraordinary explanation within this fictional universe that connects life on star systems very far from each other, for I would take it as a given that this alien species did not develop independently from the human species, that they must have common ancesters, and that there must've been enough contact, however hidden, between them to prevent the morphology of both races to evolve away from each other.

And to those who quote the much-misused "artistic license": SF is named so because the universe is usually conceived as understandable. I wouldn't think a second about this were ME a fantasy universe. But it isn't, and it follows that implausible facts must be made to make sense, even if only within the context of the ME universe. Any remotely plausible explanation is better than the assumption that this is normal. Alien species with human-compatible attraction triggers do not make sense, not even within the context of the ME universe.

 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 février 2010 - 09:11 .

[Internet Kraken]

I also find xenophilia to be disturbing. I just can't be sexually attracted to a creature that looks so vastly different from me. It just feels wrong. The Asari are in exception to this though because they look very similar to humans. Aside from the skin tone and tentacle hair, they are very similar. So it's much easier to be attracted to one, though in real life I probably wouldn't simply because they are aliens. I suppose I could find Quarians attractive for the same reason, but they seem far more alien due to their hazard suits and evolving on a different protein chain.



I can understand why people from two different sapient species could fall in love. I've just always thought it would be a platonic relationship.

[IccaRa]

Darht Jayder wrote...

what do you mean by alien fanservices? 

The devs created the asari to be convenient blue alien space babes that the player could get it on with. Giving them sparkly pink mind powers and making them look like sexy blue women with squid-heads was the most convenient way to do this. It's not a secret, BioWare has admitted it more than once.

Recreational on the father's part...fine....but makes sense with the lore. 

But that's the whole point. You said that getting it on with asari makes sense but not with other aliens. But getting it on with asari is a recreational activity. You don't gain anything from it. Same as with the other alien romances. It's recreational. You do it because you want to. There's no difference.

The entire MEverse is already acclimated to interspecies relations both platonic and romantic. Most of these alien races have dealt with each other for hundreds of years. And when it comes to individuals, anything is possible.

Interspecies relations happen. That is in the lore. If it ain't your bag, fine, but it's there and it won't go away, and it makes perfect sense in the grand scheme of things.

[Goat_Shepard]

Yeah I'd much rather play a game where I dated humans, worked 9-5, drove my OWN car home, etc, like I do in real life, rather than a roleplaying game where I can do all the crazy insane things you CANNOT DO IN REAL LIFE! Killing innocence, beating prisoners, alien sex, it's all part of this thing called roleplaying. People play these games because they know they can't do these things in real life, sort of nurturing people's fetishes.



Also, who the hell told you you had to pursue an alien relationship in Mass Effect? Dragon Age gives you the option to have gay sex, that doesn't mean I'm gunna do it, and also I would have never even HEARD of it unless it came up on the internet.



And as long as the romancible aliens in ME don't like the ones from Starship Troopers (which they don't), there's not a lot of difference anatomically.

[Cloaking_Thane]

OP you're just much more mature than everyone.

[IccaRa]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

Yeah I'd much rather play a game where I dated humans, worked 9-5, drove my OWN car home, etc, like I do in real life, rather than a roleplaying game where I can do all the crazy insane things you CANNOT DO IN REAL LIFE! Killing innocence, beating prisoners, alien sex, it's all part of this thing called roleplaying. People play these games because they know they can't do these things in real life, sort of nurturing people's fetishes.

Yep. This is what it comes down to: Mass Effect is a power fantasy. You do fantastical things (and people because you're Commander Shepard, and you're awesome.

[Ieldra]

IccaRa wrote...
Interspecies relations happen. That is in the lore. If it ain't your bag, fine, but it's there and it won't go away, and it makes perfect sense in the grand scheme of things.

Exactly that it does not. See my post at the top of this page. And whatever you think of it, that it does not make sense is the most pertinent reason why I prefer human romances in ME. I am attracted by Tali, but, plainly, I cannot believe that she exists. Not even within the fictional context of ME. 

[trigger2kill1]

OP no you are not the only one out there thinking this.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Ieldra2 wrote...

IccaRa wrote...
Interspecies relations happen. That is in the lore. If it ain't your bag, fine, but it's there and it won't go away, and it makes perfect sense in the grand scheme of things.

Exactly that it does not. See my post at the top of this page. And whatever you think of it, that it does not make sense is the most pertinent reason why I prefer human romances in ME. I am attracted by Tali, but, plainly, I cannot believe that she exists. Not even within the fictional context of ME. 

You are taking the video game far too literally.

[SandTrout]

I understand where the OP is coming from, and I agree to an extent. Relationships with another species are a bit weird, but not particularly weirder than homosexuality from my perspective. Neither has a chance of producing children, and is a result of a desire for intimacy and pleasure rather than reproductive instinct(though certain aspects of instinct may play a part).

However, in my opinion, ME takes a less ridiculous approach to inter-species relationships than many Sci-Fi stories, mainly that even though convergent evolution provides most species with male/female analogs and the necessary parts to allow for physical relations, with the exception of Asari, those relations cannot result in children(IE: Star Trek). Even with the Asari, the child will always be an Asari, though they may retain some traits from the father.

Yeoman Kelly puts the idea of inter-species attraction very well if you question her on it. Intimacy is nice, regardless of species or gender. Though I personally explored the Tali and Garrus subplots for my own entertainment only at first, I do not find it difficult to understand why someone would develop feelings for them in spite of the limitations of inter-species relationships. Oddly, as I played through the game, I think I really began to have feelings for Tali, and she is my 'canon' romance, especially considering what the options were in ME2, and I think I'll try to keep her in ME3.

Are the relationships a bit weird? Sure. Are they ridiculous and over the top? Not really.

[IccaRa]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Exactly that it does not. See my post at the top of this page. And whatever you think of it, that it does not make sense is the most pertinent reason why I prefer human romances in ME. I am attracted by Tali, but, plainly, I cannot believe that she exists. Not even within the fictional context of ME. 

You're kind of answering your own issue. Within the context of ME, these triggers do exist -- on an individual level. When it comes to self-contained preference no amount of "but" will ever make it make sense. People don't even make sense today in the real world. Build our concept of reality onto the foundation of a sci-fi power fantasy and there you go.

ME isn't hard sci-fi; it waffles, develops into its own. There are a lot of things in ME that don't make sense, but when seen in perspective -- and practically -- they do.

I look at the MEverse with the MEverse in mind, not My Present Reality As It Would Be On a Fundamental Level.

Just a difference of approach, I suppose.

[Biotic_Warlock]

*ahem* Cerberus thread.

What's wrong with alien romance??? Half human, Half Asari would seem cute

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 24 février 2010 - 09:25 .

[noobzor99]

I don't see the problem. Some men/women are into crazy stuff. The fact that many races developed in the same way may strech plausibility a bit, but its a game.

[Brass_Buckles]

In reality, alien sex would pretty much be at a 100% improbability rate. Mass Effect assumes convergent evolution for all sentient species, but one should bear in mind that some of the most intelligent non-human animals on the planet look nothing like us (dolphins, elephants, crows)--and those that are closest related to us (apes) don't resemble us that much either. Intelligent alien life could look like a giant land-roaming squid, for instance, or might run around on four feet, or might have multiple limbs. These are all more likely scenarios than that practically all aliens are pseudo-humanoid bipeds with hands for manipulation and roundish heads. That said, are we forgetting the "fiction" part of science fiction here?



I enjoy playing the interspecies romances out, and it's not because the aliens turn me on. They're downright weird--in fact, ugly. And I'm not into asari, seeing as I'm a straight female. To me, blue tentacle-headed women would be just as strange as any of the other aliens--and I think that goes for "even if I were male." The thing is, I like the storyline, and I like the sappiness factor. Also I'm more prone to have my current Shepard romance any given character I particularly like the personality and background story of (assuming I think that character will mesh well with the current Shepard I'm playing), and frankly the humans' personalities range from annoying to boring to downright offensive. Would I romance one of the aliens in real life, if they were real? Of course not, but there's something really adorable about the final few seconds of that last Garrus romance scene.



Like one of the posters above, I figure since the ME universe implies that so many species evolve similarly and seem to be put together similarly, so to speak, that yeah, recreational intercourse would happen. Some alien-human partnerships might be, as suggested, entirely platonic, though still potentially on a "more than friends" level. And let's not forget the comment that another poster made about the asari being intended as fanservice. I thought that was pretty obvious (especially given their skimpy outfits--much like Miranda's), but those who are particularly attracted to the asari and loathe the other potential romances might be a little biased against realizing that. So, yes, I assume the other romances were also added in for fanservice. And I have no problem with that, because it's all in good fun and you don't have to romance aliens if you don't want to.

[Ieldra]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

IccaRa wrote...
Interspecies relations happen. That is in the lore. If it ain't your bag, fine, but it's there and it won't go away, and it makes perfect sense in the grand scheme of things.

Exactly that it does not. See my post at the top of this page. And whatever you think of it, that it does not make sense is the most pertinent reason why I prefer human romances in ME. I am attracted by Tali, but, plainly, I cannot believe that she exists. Not even within the fictional context of ME. 

You are taking the video game far too literally.

Yes, the age old-argument. It still doesn't cut. An SF universe should make sense within its own premises or not claim the term SF for itself. What would you think if you'd suddenly see a pink unicorn on an ME mission? Well, for reasons I don't care to repeat yet another time, aliens humanoid enough to be attractive to humans are like pink unicorns to me.

[Remaix]

Markinator_123 wrote...

I did Tali's romance just for kicks and words just can not describe how odd it felt. I saw Garrus's romance on youtube. How can anyone take that relationship seriously? Thane's looked to be the best out of the three, but it still looked very weird to me. I

...
*shrug*
Hey, man. Your loss. More for us.

[77boy84]

I think it's a bit weird.



I can kind of get the Asari because they're sexually compatible with all races ever.



But turians, quarians, and drell? I can't see it. Garrus and Tali just look too weird, imo. They have the general shape of humans, but I could never see myself getting intimate with either of them,

[Druss99]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

*ahem* Cerberus thread.

What's wrong with alien romance??? Half human, Half Asari would seem cute

Isnt half human, half asari just an asari? They dont really seem to take many traits from who they "mate" with.

[IccaRa]

Darht Jayder wrote...
To me fan service implies that fans requested it.  It was in the lore in the first game before anyone but the devs had a say.

To you, okay. But the devs have said the asari are fanservice. They are. That doesn't mean they haven't grown beyond it, but that's just how it is. People want blue space babes in their sci-fi. BioWare gave them blue space babes.

All I am saying about it being recreational is that none of the other species were capable of inter-species intercourse except asari. 

Asari aren't capable of interspecies intercourse any more than turians or drell or what-have-you. The only thing asari have going for them is "melding" which, again, offers no biological incentive except to the asari herself. And she can do that with other asari. The only reason asari seek other species is because it's in their culture -- they choose to. There is no reason why other sentient beings cannot also choose to.

You are also looking at this with generalization in mind -- "all asari" "all turians" "all quarians." You have to account for individuals.

If you wish to adhere to the lore then you have to accept that yes, it makes sense and yes, it happens. Because it does. It was in the books. It is in the game. You can't pick and choose.

[Druss99]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

*ahem* Cerberus thread.

What's wrong with alien romance??? Half human, Half Asari would seem cute

Isnt half human, half asari just an asari? They dont really seem to take many traits from who they "mate" with.

[Llandaryn]

Markinator_123 wrote...

I did Tali's romance just for kicks and words just can not describe how odd it felt. I saw Garrus's romance on youtube. How can anyone take that relationship seriously? Thane's looked to be the best out of the three, but it still looked very weird to me. I

I haven't done any of the romances, so I can't speak personally.

But personally, I blame society. We've grown up immersed in media that portrays love and sex a certain way. In the past, homosexuality was considered a great sin (at least in the Christian-controlled areas... in ancient Rome it was considered a personality quirk). Sex has to be between a man and a woman, they say. Turians don't even have lips, they say. Thane is a frog-man, they say.

I believe that non-conformity is the way forward here. I'll probably do at least one of the romances before I finish the game, but for me, romance is to the game what sugar sprinkles are to a triple chocolate-layered sponge cake covered in chocolate buttons, marshmallows and jelly babies -- a tiny bit of fluff on something I was going to eat anyway.

(For me, at least, character emotional interactions and bonds are more important than physical ones. I'm glad the game allows the protagonist to be intimate with various characters to various degrees. Intimacy need not involve sex/romance for me to be happy with it)

[IONDRIVE]

The Angry One wrote...

Turians go with Asari all the time, Asari aren't very physically different from human females so no.. Garrus isn't weird in that sense.

Elcor and Hanar. That'd be weird.

I am thinking about that porn that the Japs love so much.

[enormousmoonboots]

People debating sexual incompatibility: everyone involved has fingers. Problem solved. Star Trek fans solved this problem ages ago.



Geez, you people are uncreative.

[Sialater]

Druss99 wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

*ahem* Cerberus thread.

What's wrong with alien romance??? Half human, Half Asari would seem cute

Isnt half human, half asari just an asari? They dont really seem to take many traits from who they "mate" with.

Tell that to the half-krogan Asari bartender on Illium who's name I cannot spell.