19 réponses à ce sujet

[Admiral_Phoenix]

 I'm going to start my second playthrough with a Dual-weapon rogue. I read discobird's thread about cunning vs. dex on dual weapon rogues and I was wondering how a hybrid build would work out.

I was thinking about putting about 40 cunning and the rest of my stats into dex (I will still get lethality). That way, I get more DPS, as well as utility to disarm traps and unlock doors without losing the attack and defense bonuses granted by high dexterity.  I will keep strength as low as possible, and make sure the modified strength amount is high enough to wear the helm of honnleath and whatever other armor I choose (probably 22 or less modified). I'm hoping that through this build, I can have a good compromise between atk/def, DPS, and utility. 

Also, I need a bit of help choosing when to add attributes.

I think I'm set with the talents I'm going to take: 
Dual weapon training, finesse, and expert
dual strike, riposte, cripple, punisher
dual weapon sweep, flurry, momentum, whirlwind
dirty fighting, combat movement, coup de grace
below the belt, deadly strike, and lethality
first 2 levels of lockpicking (improved tools and deft hands)
I don't know how much I should get in stealth...and whether or not that's even useful...

I've decided that I'm definitely going to take assassin as my first specialization and take all four talents from that tree, but I'm not sure about the second specialization. I'm thinking about ranger because that grants a nice bonus to DPS, since I probably won't really need the attack/def bonuses of duelist or bard. Any advice regarding this would also be welcome.

Anyway, thank you in advance for your help and advice.

[Ledunedain]

From my experience, i think it's better to focus on one stat, rather that pumping dex/cun.

On my rogue playthrough, i had about 70-75 dex and i dealed 30 to 70(crits/backstab). Get momentum ASAP and i don't think you need the dual strike tree.

[DrekorSilverfang]

Dual strike line can be skipped entirely, you won't be using any of the skills as they'll actually lower your DPS. You can skip whirlwind as well. I personally like getting combat stealth and evasion as they both help greatly when you need them.

You also need to decide to get dagger/dagger dex or dagger/dagger cun. If you go dex you can effectively be your groups tank just use stuns and 2x GM paralyze runes and let coup de grace do it's thing. If you go for cun you'll do the most damage but be a lot squishier and can focus on assassin and bard specs and easily push 120-130 backstabs(dex builds need to use the blood powers to get that high).

I personally like the dex route as I hate having weak s/s tanks as they do nothing but tank whereas a dex rogue will be one of your highest damage characters while filling the same role. Combine with a mage with paralyze, glyph of paralysis and mass paralyze and it's even easier.

Modifié par DrekorSilverfang, 25 février 2010 - 07:58 .

[Ledunedain]

With a high dex evasion is useless, it stops your character from hitting

[Admiral_Phoenix]

At Ledundain: I know that pure cunning has a dps advantage and pure dex has an atk/def advantage, but I was planning on trying to find a compromise between the two. Do you still think that's a bad idea because I really don't know. Also I was trying to find a magic balance number (like put 40 into cunning and rest into dex or 30 into cunning and rest into dex etc.). Also, I'm not getting evasion.



@Drekor: By dual striking line you mean riposte, punisher/cripple, right? What if I just stop at riposte since riposte gives you an additional stunning move, which will help with damage?

[Zy-El]

If you plan on keeping Leliana in your party, build her up as a ranged Rogue w/Stealing, Trap-making or Poison (one or the other, not both) and bow skills. For your Rogue, concentrate on making a melee DW Assassin/Ranger with maxed Lock-picking and Stealth - these two in combo lets you scout ahead and disarm traps before storming into a room. Assassin gives you the Death Mark ability plus a couple of deadly passive talents. The Ranger lets you summon a meat shield - while the enemy is fighting a Great Bear, you go behind for the easy backstab.



Basically, your Rogue and Leliana comprise all the Rogue skill-set and are a perfect complement to each other. Add your tank and DPS or mage npc's and you have a complete team.

[JosieJ]

Admiral_Phoenix wrote...

@Drekor: By dual striking line you mean riposte, punisher/cripple, right? What if I just stop at riposte since riposte gives you an additional stunning move, which will help with damage?

That's basically what I did and it worked quite well.  You can get it really early, too, since it's a tier 2 talent.

[DJ0000]

Risposte is key, punisher is good it's a insta kill on most white name enemies.



Stealth is great for positioning yourself and it is incredibly good for sneaking behind mages so you can kill them quickly.



Duelist is good because, even if you don't need the bonuses, it has a talent that temporarily makes all your attacks into critical hits. Very useful, wish I had it early enough to get some use out of it.

[Admiral_Phoenix]

Thanks for the replies. Any other opinions on the cunning/dex stat split? I'm still considering a hybrid which puts most stats into cunning, but more into dex than a pure cunning rogue would. Also, should I skip riposte or not? Some people say I can skip that whole line and some don't...



Also, I'm taking assassin specialization first but I'm not sure what to take for my second one. Any suggestions?

[Admiral_Phoenix]

Also I still need a bit of help deciding on the dex/cunning split. I'm leaning toward cunning but what should I cap dex at? Also, what should my second specialization be?

[DJ0000]

I took dex to 36 and used bonuses to raise it to 52. I would add more to cunning than dex because cunning bonuses are much harder to find.



Do not skip riposte as it is a stun which means with Coupe de grace you can auto backstab any enemy you hit with it.



Duelist is the best battle based option for your second spec but Bard can be great for a cunning based rogue, especially Song of Courage. Ranger would be good if you like having an extra ally but I don't rate it personally.



I went for duelist but I didn't actually get any of the talents early enough to really use them. Bard is excellent though. Either way your golden.

[Admiral_Phoenix]

I've decided to focus on cunning as my main damage dealing stat because this rogue will be party-based, and I'll have a tank to absorb most damage. I think I'll also cap my dex at around 36 even though I won't need all of that just to equip stuff. The extra attack will be quite useful.



Also in regards to second specialization (i'm definitely doing assassin for my first), the advantages of duelist are the extra attack/defense/ the critical hit ability (is that very useful?) and the advantage of bard is Song of courage (which allows a bigger bonus, song of courage or the dueling abilities?) and the advantage of ranger is a bit extra DPS with animals. I'm still having a little trouble deciding.

[mosspit]

Dueling is useful. That +10atk/def is flat and highly benficial at early/mid game. Pinpoint strikes is VERY useful as it is a self buff. Meaning it will work equally well against enemies of all rank.



As a gauge, my cun rogue's SoC (101cun) has ~12atk, ~6.5dmg and ~12% critical. The atk bonus of SoC can potentially overtake dueling but you will be at ~80% progress.

[A_Nyghts_Tale]

Well specialization that are good combination are duelist and assassin.. taking the two weapon fighting stylle talents are important as well. The two weapon sweep, the punisher and the whirlwind are all excellent choices. Weapons that are good are the axe you get from killing arl howe and the axe you can buy thats like 130 soveriegns. There a couple of great daggers, and one or two long swords

[Moloxia]

K - assassin/duelist is the best specialization - go for 2 daggers, allways make sure u get u got poisons on, its fun, loox cool, and some extra dmg.

dont go for 1 stat - go for dex/cun or dex/str (i advise cun)

get momentum asap - as for the dual striking row, like one guy in this post said, u can skip it, no real need for it - get mark of death too - its a bosskiller

[Sir Kalkanor]

i would go ass/bard

at the start duelist is better than bards SoC but you wont be getting bard spec until lvl 14 and by then your cun should be high enough that the attack is the same or better than that from duelist



also you get a damage boost and added crit chance







afaik you cant crit when backstabing or is it backstabing counts as crits???

so Pinpoint stirke isnt worth it (if iam right about backstabing)

[Moloxia]

I wouldnt go bard with your main class cuz the songs require stamina reservation, id keep it for another toon or dont bother at all

[Sir Kalkanor]

it does use stam but with momentum normal attacks are faster than skills and you cant backstab with skills



and bard songs stack so if your useing lil the boost is even better and attack rate is even less of a prob^^

[mosspit]

@Moloxia: The stamina reservation is fine. My auto-bs rogue have SoC and momentum all the time but still have some stamina for a dirty fighting and riposte. SoC on a party member will most likely be subpar as MC will almost always have better stats.



@Sir Kalkanor: I have not played a duelist yet but from I heard pinpoint stikes are good. They are useful for enemies that cannot be flanked like shield wielders in late game. However, critical strikes will not benefit from stuff like expoloit weakness.

[flagondotcom]

My latest playthrough is basically what Adm P outlined--Assassin/Bard HN, with natural STR=24 and DEX=40, mostly just Fade bonuses on other stats, and now putting all points into CUN.



Getting rank 4 stealth combined with recipes to make fire/frost/acid bombs means that I've taken down lots of mages and other folks by just throwing things while stealthy...



For the PC, there are enough stat bonuses that one doesn't have to go strictly min/max. Obviously, it's a "to each his own" thing though...it's possible to beat the game even on NM with a gimped character if you pay enough attention to tactics/micromanaging.