184 réponses à ce sujet

[The Capital Gaultier]

Shamus totally blew this whole review. This part is no exception. Really, though, it's a common misunderstanding - this is Shepard's story and not the player's. To Renegade Shepard, this facility is something that could really help in the war effort to come. However, he ain't gonna give it to the ****footing Council who don't support him any more nor the Alliance who can't get **** done. To Paragon Shepard, the Reaper manufactory represents a terrible threat to the future of galactic civilization. Especially if you follow what happened with Sovereign and the Heretics. Even if the war is won, the price would be too great. Better to find a good way to win.

[Asheer_Khan]

Blakes 7 wrote...

Here is the link to the article

http://www.shamusyou...dedtale/?p=7007

Having a blast reading this. Haven't thought about it much myself but I happen to agree with the four points below.


"According to the game designers, this is an unambiguously evil move.
Every single member of your crew – including the amoral Krogen, the
nihilistic Jack, the pragmatic pro-science Mordin, and the pro-Cerberus
Miranda – will approve of you destroying the base. This isn’t a
brilliant shades-of-gray decision like we see elsewhere in the game,
this is a black-and-white choice where the whole crew agrees that the
paragon course of action (option #2) is the right one.
If you choose the paragon option, Shepard decides to blow up the base
saying, “I won’t let fear compromise who I am.” And later, “We’ll beat
[the Reapers] without sacrificing the soul of our species.”

I find this line of reasoning to be lazy and infantile to the point
of being offensive.
1) Proof. By this point you have now spent two whole
games trying to convince the rest of the galaxy that the Reaper threat
is real. One of the major reasons the battle is so desperate is because
you’ve been working alone. Here is unambiguous proof of an advanced
enemy with hostile intentions.

^ Believe me, they known that threat is real but there is one thing what hinder Shepar to aquire such info.
Because  he/she work whit Cerberus he/she is in the Alliance/Citadel watch list and cut off from any vital informations and i would'n be surprised if in ME 3 we will learn that Alliance and Council have ready to fight fleet armed whit newly develop weapons.

2) Memorial. Keeping the facility is crucial for
understanding who died here, and how. If nothing else, looking for
bodies and dogtags to send home would have been worthwhile and offer
some families a sense of closure.

^ Hmmm... in this point i have some reservations.
I don't known if relatives of colonists should really learn what happened whit thier closest ones...

3) Technology. Yes, study the technology. Just
because the Slurpee machine of evilness is horrible doesn’t mean that we
shouldn’t understand how it works and why. Particularly when you’re in a
war and the enemy has you outmatched in both numbers and tech.
The idea that we shouldn’t understand a technology because it has been
used in evil ways is a line of reasoning that borders on primitive
superstition.

^ Allowe me to ask you a question.
Do you play in Mass Effect 1?
If yes then please recall words of Sovieregin who says that IT WAS reapers plot to let behind after each harvest pieces of technology to speed up galaxy advancement so in other words... using that station and thier tech is EXACLY what Reapers want and expected from us.
And one more thing... outmach in numbers yes but in tech? here i would argue.
Again let me bring back ME 1, if you pay  attention at Vigil talk on Ilos, he say that after each harvest reapers fall back to Dark Space and activate hibernation state utill next harvest time will come.
And what's more interesting Reapers do everything to avoid face up united galaxy and that's why they targeting Citadel to shut down Mass Relays and create isolated from eachother sectors.
Tell me, why such powerfull (as many claims) reapers actually fears united against them galaxy???
Maybe they are not THAT strong as they pretend to be.
And about this hibernation  aspect (if vigil known that then apparently Proteans were able to discover many aspects related to reapers) if you sleep you don't develop and to remain intact 50000 years they apparently reduced energy consumation to minimal minimum.
Again recall Vigil, he say that to kept alive core Protean scientists he start to shut down each (non essential) stasis pods and that was after couple hundred years so imagine if you have in "schedule" 50000 year till next cycle... so it's very possible that thier advantage over current civilizations is not so big as many suspected and actually could be outmatched by Alliance and Citadel scientists.

4) Intel. How does the enemy communicate? What is
their history? What are their plans? Up until now the Reapers have been a
great big question mark, and this is our first chance to fill in some
blanks by digging around in their computers and reading their mail.
Even if there was some unforeseen danger to keeping the
station, we could blow it up anytime we want if it turned out to be a
problem. This isn’t a decision that needs to be made on the
battlefield.

^ Ok... this part start to made me suspicious that you DONT played Mass Effect 1.
"What are thier plans?" - WIPED OUT ALL ADVANCED CIVILIZATIONS!!! - no more no less.
Not even Proteans were able to discover reapers origin so how you expected that we will be able to do this.
Even Sovieregin on Virmire was not able to properly reply at the question "Who build you?" and if even reaper don't known his roots...

"We could blown that station any time"... riight.
You forget that to pass Omega 4 relay is necessary Reaper IFF device, otherwise you will end crashing up on the other side or even drop direct over that black hole, and something tells me that right now ONLY Normandy is only non reaper ship having such device... unless Timmy (again) not tells us something.
And reading thier e-mails?
Seriously that's make me pretty good lol...

So yeah I did not do evil bioware - there is only the potential for evil, don't make me regret it in me3 pretty please

^ If you made deal whit the devil:devil: then be prepared for paying consequencess for such deal

Reply in bold

[Nightwriter]

Computron2000 wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

The Alliance wouldn't be picking up the ship, Cerberus would. I played enough of ME1 to not trust them based on their horrible track record.

You have the only ship that can reach it.

Unfortunately no. The ending where Shepard dies and the base is not destroyed shows 4-5 (can't remember the number) Cerberus ships already moving in even as Joker finishes contacting TIM. this means they already reversed engineered the protocol used to activate the mass relay.

Ahhhhhh!

I didn't know this! I've never had my Shepard die. 4-5 ships? Man. That makes me even more glad I blew up the base. TIM is already moving in for the kill. He's replicated the IFF and everything.

Well, I guess no one who kept the base can comfort themselves anymore with the reassurance that the Normandy is the only ship with access to the Omega 4 relay...

[Ecael]

When I take Tali aboard Council stations the customs guys sometimes call her *that thing*.

[Silent Perforator]

Nhani wrote...

The latter; your team all but universally disagree with the choice to keep the base and thumbs up destroying it. It's entirely fair to assume it might just be to mess with our heads, but BioWare clearly intentionally thumbed up the base's destruction through your team mates.

This is the only thing that irks me.

After making it very clear that I will not be second-guessed on my own ship and they will be crushed under my heel if they're in my way they still DARE to question my judgment. That's some seriously bad writing there.

[Nhani]

Terrorfex wrote...

Nhani wrote...
Well there's a going question of would it help you? If you want to understand Mass Relay technology, the place you want to study is more likely the Citadel or the actual relays, really.

The Citadel and the ME Relays were designed to be hidden - designed to appear as anything other than Reaper in origin. The Collectors Base by virtue of its defences and location, was designed to be "impossible" to reach, rather than passively hidden by pretending to be something else.

The fact it "looks" Reaper tells me, in my opinion, that it has a lot to teach us.

I think it depends on perspective a bit - for me, the "impossible to reach" bit along with its contents struck me that the place had essentially one purpose and would be lacking for much beyond that purpose because there'd be no need for that many auxiliary functions. A few beam weapons maybe, a really large and powerful Mass Effect generator.. but not really that much else. The defenses seemed all external (not to mention destroyed when you reach the base).

All I could see worth salvaging seemed to be towards ascension, and I think that was very much intended. I'd actually consider it a much harder choice if the game had told you there was a large gun that one-shot reapers installed on that base.

[wolfstanus]

I never trusted TiM (to racist ) so Idestroyed partly to ****** him off. Also Legions explanation is how i feel.

Modifié par wolfstanus, 25 février 2010 - 12:05 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Why would giving the base to the Alliance or Council be any better than giving it to Cerberus?



All 3 organizations have a complete lack of morals and in any case that base had a direct phone line to the Reapers making it way to dangerous to have it around, Blow the sucker up.

[The Angry One]

Nightwriter wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

The Alliance wouldn't be picking up the ship, Cerberus would. I played enough of ME1 to not trust them based on their horrible track record.

You have the only ship that can reach it.

Unfortunately no. The ending where Shepard dies and the base is not destroyed shows 4-5 (can't remember the number) Cerberus ships already moving in even as Joker finishes contacting TIM. this means they already reversed engineered the protocol used to activate the mass relay.

Ahhhhhh!

I didn't know this! I've never had my Shepard die. 4-5 ships? Man. That makes me even more glad I blew up the base. TIM is already moving in for the kill. He's replicated the IFF and everything.

Well, I guess no one who kept the base can comfort themselves anymore with the reassurance that the Normandy is the only ship with access to the Omega 4 relay...

If that's the case then we should have the option to give the IFF to the Alliance too.

Shepard: Okay, I've preserved the base... oh, one more thing.

TIM: What?

Shepard: Admiral Hackett says "Hello."

*5th fleet jumps in and massacres the Cerberus ships*

[The Capital Gaultier]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Why would giving the base to the Alliance or Council be any better than giving it to Cerberus?

All 3 organizations have a complete lack of morals and in any case that base had a direct phone line to the Reapers making it way to dangerous to have it around, Blow the sucker up.

As a Renegade, Shepard seems to believe that TIM is a guy who gets **** done.  Ruthless, yes, but also competent.  No such respect for the Council or Alliance.

[The Angry One]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Why would giving the base to the Alliance or Council be any better than giving it to Cerberus?

All 3 organizations have a complete lack of morals and in any case that base had a direct phone line to the Reapers making it way to dangerous to have it around, Blow the sucker up.

You're really comparing the Council and Alliance's political inability to make decisions to Cerberus' complete lack of any scruples? Are you daft?

[Nightwriter]

Silent Perforator wrote...

Nhani wrote...

The latter; your team all but universally disagree with the choice to keep the base and thumbs up destroying it. It's entirely fair to assume it might just be to mess with our heads, but BioWare clearly intentionally thumbed up the base's destruction through your team mates.

This is the only thing that irks me.

After making it very clear that I will not be second-guessed on my own ship and they will be crushed under my heel if they're in my way they still DARE to question my judgment. That's some seriously bad writing there.

Easy there, Adolf.

[The Angry One]

Nightwriter wrote...

Silent Perforator wrote...

Nhani wrote...

The latter; your team all but universally disagree with the choice to keep the base and thumbs up destroying it. It's entirely fair to assume it might just be to mess with our heads, but BioWare clearly intentionally thumbed up the base's destruction through your team mates.

This is the only thing that irks me.

After making it very clear that I will not be second-guessed on my own ship and they will be crushed under my heel if they're in my way they still DARE to question my judgment. That's some seriously bad writing there.

Easy there, Adolf.

[Nightwriter]

The Angry One wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

The Alliance wouldn't be picking up the ship, Cerberus would. I played enough of ME1 to not trust them based on their horrible track record.

You have the only ship that can reach it.

Unfortunately no. The ending where Shepard dies and the base is not destroyed shows 4-5 (can't remember the number) Cerberus ships already moving in even as Joker finishes contacting TIM. this means they already reversed engineered the protocol used to activate the mass relay.

Ahhhhhh!

I didn't know this! I've never had my Shepard die. 4-5 ships? Man. That makes me even more glad I blew up the base. TIM is already moving in for the kill. He's replicated the IFF and everything.

Well, I guess no one who kept the base can comfort themselves anymore with the reassurance that the Normandy is the only ship with access to the Omega 4 relay...

If that's the case then we should have the option to give the IFF to the Alliance too.

Shepard: Okay, I've preserved the base... oh, one more thing.

TIM: What?

Shepard: Admiral Hackett says "Hello."

*5th fleet jumps in and massacres the Cerberus ships*

I am in full support of this scenario. GO HACKETT!!!
The only Alliance/Council person to never betray me... well, personally...

[Computron2000]

Nightwriter wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

The Alliance wouldn't be picking up the ship, Cerberus would. I played enough of ME1 to not trust them based on their horrible track record.

You have the only ship that can reach it.

Unfortunately no. The ending where Shepard dies and the base is not destroyed shows 4-5 (can't remember the number) Cerberus ships already moving in even as Joker finishes contacting TIM. this means they already reversed engineered the protocol used to activate the mass relay.

Ahhhhhh!

I didn't know this! I've never had my Shepard die. 4-5 ships? Man. That makes me even more glad I blew up the base. TIM is already moving in for the kill. He's replicated the IFF and everything.

Well, I guess no one who kept the base can comfort themselves anymore with the reassurance that the Normandy is the only ship with access to the Omega 4 relay...

ok found the video, TIM has 6 ships and an evil smile (Shepard dying is good for him, i'm guessing)


its from 1:25

[The Capital Gaultier]

Computron2000 wrote...

ok found the video, TIM has 6 ships and an evil smile (Shepard dying is good for him, i'm guessing)


its from 1:25

That video is alarming!

How did Joker raise that beam!?

Kidding.  And yes, I'm sure TIM is glad to benefit from his investment in Shepard without needing to bow to Shepard as the hero.

[Anacronian Stryx]

The Angry One wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Why would giving the base to the Alliance or Council be any better than giving it to Cerberus?

All 3 organizations have a complete lack of morals and in any case that base had a direct phone line to the Reapers making it way to dangerous to have it around, Blow the sucker up.

You're really comparing the Council and Alliance's political inability to make decisions to Cerberus' complete lack of any scruples? Are you daft?

Lets see.. The Alliance had "Biotic Acclimation and Temperance" a nice little completely amoral testbed for biotics, The Alliance sent spy satellites armed with nuclear fusion warheads to spy on the Turians during the first contact war.

The Council had no scruples about uplifting an entire race for use as shock troops in a war that was the Councils own fault, And then turn around and release a bio weapon on said troops when they turned on them.

Only difference between The Alliance, Council and Cerberus is that the Alliance and the Council operate with casualties in the millions or billions for their mistakes.

[The Angry One]

That's another thing that irks me, why is TIm so happy and almost going "kekekekeke" if the base is saved and Shep dies?

Sure he's a megalomaniac and the base is sweet for his evil plans, but this is the same guy who spent billions on resurrecting Shep and refused to put a kill-switch or mind control implant in her/him but he's going to be ecstatic after Shep's dead even though Shep proved to be a team player?

Whatever. They shove all ambiguity about TIM to the side and make him the evil emperor.

[Nhani]

The Angry One wrote...
Godwin's Law

I'm not sure what gets me the most; how often Godwin turns out to be right or that there's actually a latin phrase to describe the fallacy Godwin's law refers to.

[wolfstanus]

Computron2000 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

The Alliance wouldn't be picking up the ship, Cerberus would. I played enough of ME1 to not trust them based on their horrible track record.

You have the only ship that can reach it.

Unfortunately no. The ending where Shepard dies and the base is not destroyed shows 4-5 (can't remember the number) Cerberus ships already moving in even as Joker finishes contacting TIM. this means they already reversed engineered the protocol used to activate the mass relay.

Ahhhhhh!

I didn't know this! I've never had my Shepard die. 4-5 ships? Man. That makes me even more glad I blew up the base. TIM is already moving in for the kill. He's replicated the IFF and everything.

Well, I guess no one who kept the base can comfort themselves anymore with the reassurance that the Normandy is the only ship with access to the Omega 4 relay...

ok found the video, TIM has 6 ships and an evil smile (Shepard dying is good for him, i'm guessing)


its from 1:25

In other words very very bad to keep it... Thanks TiM... Cerberus is all about dominating the other races. so once the reapers are gone he is going after everybody thats not human or does not go along with his thinking.

[The Angry One]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Lets see.. The Alliance had "Biotic Acclimation and Temperance" a nice little completely amoral testbed for biotics,

Turns out governments do distasteful things to get ahead, who knew?

The Alliance sent spy satellites armed with nuclear fusion warheads to spy on the Turians during the first contact war.

Yeah, it was a war.

The Council had no scruples about uplifting an entire race for use as shock troops in a war that was the Councils own fault, And then turn around and release a bio weapon on said troops when they turned on them.

It was the Council's own fault for opening mass relays?
And the Krogan already nuked themselves a dozen times before they were uplifted, if not for the Council they'd probably be extinct by now.

Only difference between The Alliance, Council and Cerberus is that the Alliance and the Council operate with casualties in the millions or billions for their mistakes.

The Alliance has it's good points and bad points. Cerberus exists only to further TIM's personal agenda.

[Nightwriter]

Computron2000 wrote...

ok found the video, TIM has 6 ships and an evil smile (Shepard dying is good for him, i'm guessing)


its from 1:25

This evidence is irrefutable, ambassador.

PROOF. THE ILLUSIVE MAN IS EVIL!!! EEEVIIIIIIILLLLL!!!

[Archilochos]

Nightwriter wrote...

Silent Perforator wrote...

Nhani wrote...

The latter; your team all but universally disagree with the choice to keep the base and thumbs up destroying it. It's entirely fair to assume it might just be to mess with our heads, but BioWare clearly intentionally thumbed up the base's destruction through your team mates.

This is the only thing that irks me.

After making it very clear that I will not be second-guessed on my own ship and they will be crushed under my heel if they're in my way they still DARE to question my judgment. That's some seriously bad writing there.

Easy there, Adolf.

Nightwriter, the Poles need you to report to 1939, stat!

@Silent: You didn't crush the base under your heel; you're all talk.  Why should your team respect you?

Again, I think people are getting hung up on the base itself.  The decision really has more to do with Cerberus.  TIM is not to be trusted.  You shouldn't need your team to tell you that handing unknown very powerful tech over to terrorists is a bad idea.  The question isn't really about the base, it's about GIVE the base to TIM and only TIM, or deny it.  Those are the only options we're given.  We can't call up the Alliance or Council, we can't ask Mordin to get on the horn to the STG, we can't can't drop Wrex a line and say "I've got a present for the Lord High Researcher."  Keeping the base in and of itself seems fine, if 1: you can hold it, and 2: it won't be in the sole possession of a megalomaniacal terrorist nutjob who uses his Alliance intel codename the way a Batman villain would his 'badguy' persona.

[Sockwolf]

After reading Ascension it's hard to imagine TIM as anything other than an evil bastard. If there was an option to turn the base over to the council, with the option to shove the Turian councilmember face first into the wreckage and go 'ah yes, this "Reaper"' I'd have done it.

[greghorvath]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

it is set up this way on purpose. the pursose is to create an unchangeable canon for ME3. so your choice of keeping or destroying the base will have very little impact the same way that keeping or killing the council was last game.

The game says your decisions may have dire ramifications in ME3. I really hope they mean that and that your idea of unchangeable canon (however likely) is wrong.

Muffildy had a very interesting post earlier. The question of having thought about the hole plot being a reaper ruse I would definitely say yes. TIM is very elusive, his motifs are absolutely unknown. Anything is possible.

I personally think the genious of ME2 is in its vagueness. We have no other idea about the future, except that the opposition is going to be very strong. 

I usually play paragon (as I am very nice in real life as well...), but in my first playthrough, in which I always play without considering achievements and such, I always try to act as I would act if it was really me making that decision in that situation. I chose to keep the base intact, because considering the expected opposition, I think all information we can get (about their technology - whether to incorporate it with our own or to look for flaws and possibly weak points) is vital for survival.

I am on my third playthrough and I know that I am going to decide to save the station.