465 réponses à ce sujet

[BobbyTheI]

I'm tempted to say something here, but nah.  You guys just keep doing what you're doing.  It'll work eventually, I just know it will! 

[ZennExile]

Stalking me outside the Jack thread too? Serious business...

[Sleepicub09]

I'm done with this thread

[Xandurpein]

Let me put it like this:

If anyone think that lots of loot, dice roll and character sheets makes your game more enjoyable, then we can just agree to disagree. Personally I usually don't mind it, but neither do I think it really adds much to my experience, but everyone is entitled to decide what they think it's fun.

If anyone thinks that ME2 doesn't deserve to be called an RPG, because it doesn't have enough of the elements above then I personally think they are dead wrong.

If someone can somehow prove that loot, dice roll and character sheets are in fact a part of the actual definition of what an RPG is, then I really couldn't care less if ME2 is an RPG or not. It's a bloody wonderful storydriven game where I can immerse myself in the role of Commander Shepard and save the galaxy whatever you decide to call it.

[ZennExile]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

I'm done with this thread

Quitter

[redguppie]

Loved the game and it's character interactions.



Also tired of threads made by people who miss the fact that building the team was the point.

[The Mythical Magician]

Xandurpein wrote...
If someone can somehow prove that loot, dice roll and character sheets are in fact a part of the actual definition of what an RPG is, then I really couldn't care less if ME2 is an RPG or not. It's a bloody wonderful storydriven game where I can immerse myself in the role of Commander Shepard and save the galaxy whatever you decide to call it.

DnD is basically what defines a RPG and it haves Dice rolls, characters sheets, loot, ext.

[ZennExile]

Xandurpein wrote...

Let me put it like this:
If anyone think that lots of loot, dice roll and character sheets makes your game more enjoyable, then we can just agree to disagree. Personally I usually don't mind it, but neither do I think it really adds much to my experience, but everyone is entitled to decide what they think it's fun.
If anyone thinks that ME2 doesn't deserve to be called an RPG, because it doesn't have enough of the elements above then I personally think they are dead wrong.
If someone can somehow prove that loot, dice roll and character sheets are in fact a part of the actual definition of what an RPG is, then I really couldn't care less if ME2 is an RPG or not. It's a bloody wonderful storydriven game where I can immerse myself in the role of Commander Shepard and save the galaxy whatever you decide to call it.

Easy enough.

Loot represents discovery, depth, customization, collection  (RPG elements yes?)
Dice rolls literally mean random chance (also an important RPG element)
Character sheets are just a reflection of advancement (paramount RPG element)

So technically all those things are important RPG elements.

By your logic any game where you play a role is an RPG.  So you suggest Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty, God of War, Every Fighting Game ever,  super mario brothers, all of these are RPGs?  They all have a story.  You play a role in all of them?  Halo is a rediculously popular IP and MILLIONS of people love the story, does that make it an RPG?

Think about the things that seperate an RPG from other genre.  Story and playing a role does not seperate an RPG from a Shooter so what does?

[Balerion84]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...
If someone can somehow prove that loot, dice roll and character sheets are in fact a part of the actual definition of what an RPG is, then I really couldn't care less if ME2 is an RPG or not. It's a bloody wonderful storydriven game where I can immerse myself in the role of Commander Shepard and save the galaxy whatever you decide to call it.

DnD is basically what defines a RPG and it haves Dice rolls, characters sheets, loot, ext.

DnD (Dungeons and Dragons) is what popularized Role Playing Games (RPGs), it doesn't define what RPG is. It's just the most popular form of RPG. Mass Effect is not DnD. Baldur's Gate was AD&D (Advanced Dungeons and Dragons). If you want a game based on AD&D or DnD you have to have a license (if I'm correct, AD&D license is owned by Wizards of the Sword Coast)
RPG means more than just DnD. RPG is about Role Playing. Not about loot, or dices, or anything like that. That's where people get it wrong most of the time. You can play a form of DnD (Role Play) without dices.

Going by the definition of RPG, every game where you assume a role of a character is RPG. (Yes, even Modern Warfare... sad, I know). And when it comes to actual Role Playing in video games, there's not many (if any) games that are better than ME1 OR ME2.

ME 1&2 are not licensed. Their rules are made by BioWare, so saying that RPG should have loot because DnD has loot is wrong and ignorant. 
There.

[redguppie]

A game in which players assume the roles of characters and act out fantastical adventures, the outcomes of which are partially determined by chance, as by the roll of dice.



actual definition of a role-playing game



any game with a set path and a linear story progression with minimal room for deviation isn't a RPG

any game that takes players actions into acount and changes the path between beginning and end( or better still changes the ending itself) would fit the definition of a RPG. All the rest is window dressing to help with player immersion.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

I be trollin, they be hatin

[Xandurpein]

ZennExile wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Let me put it like this:
If anyone think that lots of loot, dice roll and character sheets makes your game more enjoyable, then we can just agree to disagree. Personally I usually don't mind it, but neither do I think it really adds much to my experience, but everyone is entitled to decide what they think it's fun.
If anyone thinks that ME2 doesn't deserve to be called an RPG, because it doesn't have enough of the elements above then I personally think they are dead wrong.
If someone can somehow prove that loot, dice roll and character sheets are in fact a part of the actual definition of what an RPG is, then I really couldn't care less if ME2 is an RPG or not. It's a bloody wonderful storydriven game where I can immerse myself in the role of Commander Shepard and save the galaxy whatever you decide to call it.

Easy enough.

Loot represents discovery, depth, customization, collection  (RPG elements yes?)
Dice rolls literally mean random chance (also an important RPG element)
Character sheets are just a reflection of advancement (paramount RPG element)

So technically all those things are important RPG elements.

By your logic any game where you play a role is an RPG.  So you suggest Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty, God of War, Every Fighting Game ever,  super mario brothers, all of these are RPGs?  They all have a story.  You play a role in all of them?  Halo is a rediculously popular IP and MILLIONS of people love the story, does that make it an RPG?

Think about the things that seperate an RPG from other genre.  Story and playing a role does not seperate an RPG from a Shooter so what does?

What separates an RPG from a non-RPG to me is that it is storydriven and a major part of the game is interacting with people and making choices that affect the outcome of situations.

For example: In Halo or diablo 2 there are the same cut scene dialogs played after a boss fight and I have zero possibility of affecting the story, that is to me low roleplaying factor. In many japanese RPG the same scripted romance will play out at some moment, whether I want to or not, that is low roleplaying factor for me. In ME2 I choose from multiple responses and this affects the outcome of the conversation = high roleplaying factor to me.

Add all the conversation options and story elements from Mass Effect and add it to Halo and I would call it an RPG. But as I said, this is just my opinion. If anyone can prove me wrong, I don't mind really. The fact that I love ME2 has nothing to do with if it can be accuratly be labeled an RPG or not.

[RighteousRage]

At first when I played ME 2 I was like "hell naw" and then I beat it four times and I was like "o i c"

[kraidy1117]

ME2 has everything a RPG games needs. Even forbid you can't sell anything! ME2 has everything DAO had, so if you are saying ME2 is not an RPG (ME2 is a shooter RPG, not a classic, JRP, tactical RPG ect) then you might as well say DAO is not an RPG which is just stupid.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Been a Bioware fan since BG1. ME2 has nearly destroyed my interest in Bioware games.



I wish the "true fanbois" would stop making posts similarly speaking for the rest of us. The OP made many points I agree with. Deal with it.

[Balerion84]

kraidy1117 wrote...

ME2 has everything a RPG games needs. Even forbid you can't sell anything! ME2 has everything DAO had, so if you are saying ME2 is not an RPG (ME2 is a shooter RPG, not a classic, JRP, tactical RPG ect) then you might as well say DAO is not an RPG which is just stupid.

Demon's Souls also didn't allow you to sell anything. Didn't prevent it to become the RPG and GOTY of 2009 for GameSpot and being awesome all around.
(RPGamer also awarded it RPG of 2009...)
it was action rpg. ME2 is even more rpg than Demon Souls. Both are awesome.

Modifié par Balerion84, 25 février 2010 - 03:21 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

I fail to see how Mass Effect 2 "fails"

My only downside is the lack of dialouge, very limited exploration, and no variety of weapons and armor. Other then that, i'm most likely going to play ME1 and ME2 for most likely half of the year.

Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 25 février 2010 - 03:20 .

[ZennExile]

Xandurpein wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Let me put it like this:
If anyone think that lots of loot, dice roll and character sheets makes your game more enjoyable, then we can just agree to disagree. Personally I usually don't mind it, but neither do I think it really adds much to my experience, but everyone is entitled to decide what they think it's fun.
If anyone thinks that ME2 doesn't deserve to be called an RPG, because it doesn't have enough of the elements above then I personally think they are dead wrong.
If someone can somehow prove that loot, dice roll and character sheets are in fact a part of the actual definition of what an RPG is, then I really couldn't care less if ME2 is an RPG or not. It's a bloody wonderful storydriven game where I can immerse myself in the role of Commander Shepard and save the galaxy whatever you decide to call it.

Easy enough.

Loot represents discovery, depth, customization, collection  (RPG elements yes?)
Dice rolls literally mean random chance (also an important RPG element)
Character sheets are just a reflection of advancement (paramount RPG element)

So technically all those things are important RPG elements.

By your logic any game where you play a role is an RPG.  So you suggest Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty, God of War, Every Fighting Game ever,  super mario brothers, all of these are RPGs?  They all have a story.  You play a role in all of them?  Halo is a rediculously popular IP and MILLIONS of people love the story, does that make it an RPG?

Think about the things that seperate an RPG from other genre.  Story and playing a role does not seperate an RPG from a Shooter so what does?

What separates an RPG from a non-RPG to me is that it is storydriven and a major part of the game is interacting with people and making choices that affect the outcome of situations.

For example: In Halo or diablo 2 there are the same cut scene dialogs played after a boss fight and I have zero possibility of affecting the story, that is to me low roleplaying factor. In many japanese RPG the same scripted romance will play out at some moment, whether I want to or not, that is low roleplaying factor for me. In ME2 I choose from multiple responses and this affects the outcome of the conversation = high roleplaying factor to me.

Add all the conversation options and story elements from Mass Effect and add it to Halo and I would call it an RPG. But as I said, this is just my opinion. If anyone can prove me wrong, I don't mind really. The fact that I love ME2 has nothing to do with if it can be accuratly be labeled an RPG or not.

So choice defines RPG?  So you want to say Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is an RPG?  Rather than admit you don't know what makes an RPG you'd rather say something absolutley rediculous?

[Xandurpein]

ZennExile wrote...

Easy enough.

Loot represents discovery, depth, customization, collection  (RPG elements yes?)
Dice rolls literally mean random chance (also an important RPG element)
Character sheets are just a reflection of advancement (paramount RPG element)

So technically all those things are important RPG elements.

Loot can represent discovery and customization and collection. While I think exploration is a vital part of roleplaying, I think loot is a very minor part of discovery for me. Finding new places and people is much more important. Customization can be nice, but is not dependable on loot. You can change your appearance a lot in ME2 really, it's just not handled primarily by loot. Collection might be important to you, but it's not to me really.

Dice roll are only part of standard PnP RPG because it is a needed crutch to resolve some situations in PnP games. If you can resolve the same situation by a hair trigger so much the better. Dice rolls are a means not an end.

Character advancement is really also mostly a crutch to me. A good free form RP don't need it. I can understand that people like it as it gives you a number that gives you a sense of accomplishment, but it's not really necessary. The story and the interactivity is the necessary part.

[Xandurpein]

ZennExile wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Let me put it like this:
If anyone think that lots of loot, dice roll and character sheets makes your game more enjoyable, then we can just agree to disagree. Personally I usually don't mind it, but neither do I think it really adds much to my experience, but everyone is entitled to decide what they think it's fun.
If anyone thinks that ME2 doesn't deserve to be called an RPG, because it doesn't have enough of the elements above then I personally think they are dead wrong.
If someone can somehow prove that loot, dice roll and character sheets are in fact a part of the actual definition of what an RPG is, then I really couldn't care less if ME2 is an RPG or not. It's a bloody wonderful storydriven game where I can immerse myself in the role of Commander Shepard and save the galaxy whatever you decide to call it.

Easy enough.

Loot represents discovery, depth, customization, collection  (RPG elements yes?)
Dice rolls literally mean random chance (also an important RPG element)
Character sheets are just a reflection of advancement (paramount RPG element)

So technically all those things are important RPG elements.

By your logic any game where you play a role is an RPG.  So you suggest Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty, God of War, Every Fighting Game ever,  super mario brothers, all of these are RPGs?  They all have a story.  You play a role in all of them?  Halo is a rediculously popular IP and MILLIONS of people love the story, does that make it an RPG?

Think about the things that seperate an RPG from other genre.  Story and playing a role does not seperate an RPG from a Shooter so what does?

What separates an RPG from a non-RPG to me is that it is storydriven and a major part of the game is interacting with people and making choices that affect the outcome of situations.

For example: In Halo or diablo 2 there are the same cut scene dialogs played after a boss fight and I have zero possibility of affecting the story, that is to me low roleplaying factor. In many japanese RPG the same scripted romance will play out at some moment, whether I want to or not, that is low roleplaying factor for me. In ME2 I choose from multiple responses and this affects the outcome of the conversation = high roleplaying factor to me.

Add all the conversation options and story elements from Mass Effect and add it to Halo and I would call it an RPG. But as I said, this is just my opinion. If anyone can prove me wrong, I don't mind really. The fact that I love ME2 has nothing to do with if it can be accuratly be labeled an RPG or not.

So choice defines RPG?  So you want to say Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is an RPG?  Rather than admit you don't know what makes an RPG you'd rather say something absolutley rediculous?

I have never played Call of Duty Moder Warfare 2, so I have no idea of how it is played,, but somehow I think I would have noticed if that game had had as much storytelling, character interaction, conversations and choices as ME2.

If you read the last part of what I wrote you'll see that I really couldn't care less if ME2 can be accuratly named an RPG or not. I have no sentimental attachement to to old school RPG based on the DnD formula as such. THe rules where never anything but a viechle to carry the story. If the story can be carried as well without all the elements of an old school RPG, why not? All I care about is the immersion and the story.

[ZennExile]

Xandurpein wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Easy enough.

Loot represents discovery, depth, customization, collection  (RPG elements yes?)
Dice rolls literally mean random chance (also an important RPG element)
Character sheets are just a reflection of advancement (paramount RPG element)

So technically all those things are important RPG elements.

Loot can represent discovery and customization and collection. While I think exploration is a vital part of roleplaying, I think loot is a very minor part of discovery for me. Finding new places and people is much more important. Customization can be nice, but is not dependable on loot. You can change your appearance a lot in ME2 really, it's just not handled primarily by loot. Collection might be important to you, but it's not to me really.

Dice roll are only part of standard PnP RPG because it is a needed crutch to resolve some situations in PnP games. If you can resolve the same situation by a hair trigger so much the better. Dice rolls are a means not an end.

Character advancement is really also mostly a crutch to me. A good free form RP don't need it. I can understand that people like it as it gives you a number that gives you a sense of accomplishment, but it's not really necessary. The story and the interactivity is the necessary part.

You just told me you don't like RPGs.  Oh and free form RP can't have any rules and therefor cannot be a game.  There is Free Form Advancement in RPGs though which you probably are confusing the term with.  However again it's advancement.  Oh and character advancement is the most important element that defines a game as being an RPG.  Just so this is clear.

[jbadm04]

wolfstanus wrote...

Then they are not true fans.... true fans will stick it out...

Uh so wrong, true fans will state their opinion and dont duck just because everyone else is calling them a retard. And, true fands dont stick it out, they go on when too much crap happens. To use an analogy.... I love the food my mother cooks, but when she starts to feed me ****.... a "true fan" who still loves it and stick that out becomes a fanboy, who always say "yeah amen" even when he is fed ****.

This do not mean ME2 is crap, its just about true fans and so

[The Mythical Magician]

kraidy1117 wrote...

ME2 has everything a RPG games needs. Even forbid you can't sell anything! ME2 has everything DAO had, so if you are saying ME2 is not an RPG (ME2 is a shooter RPG, not a classic, JRP, tactical RPG ect) then you might as well say DAO is not an RPG which is just stupid.

lolwut?! 

[Aisynia]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

To clarify by die hard fans... I meant the RPG folk.

Still not buying it.

[ZennExile]

Xandurpein wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Let me put it like this:
If anyone think that lots of loot, dice roll and character sheets makes your game more enjoyable, then we can just agree to disagree. Personally I usually don't mind it, but neither do I think it really adds much to my experience, but everyone is entitled to decide what they think it's fun.
If anyone thinks that ME2 doesn't deserve to be called an RPG, because it doesn't have enough of the elements above then I personally think they are dead wrong.
If someone can somehow prove that loot, dice roll and character sheets are in fact a part of the actual definition of what an RPG is, then I really couldn't care less if ME2 is an RPG or not. It's a bloody wonderful storydriven game where I can immerse myself in the role of Commander Shepard and save the galaxy whatever you decide to call it.

Easy enough.

Loot represents discovery, depth, customization, collection  (RPG elements yes?)
Dice rolls literally mean random chance (also an important RPG element)
Character sheets are just a reflection of advancement (paramount RPG element)

So technically all those things are important RPG elements.

By your logic any game where you play a role is an RPG.  So you suggest Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty, God of War, Every Fighting Game ever,  super mario brothers, all of these are RPGs?  They all have a story.  You play a role in all of them?  Halo is a rediculously popular IP and MILLIONS of people love the story, does that make it an RPG?

Think about the things that seperate an RPG from other genre.  Story and playing a role does not seperate an RPG from a Shooter so what does?

What separates an RPG from a non-RPG to me is that it is storydriven and a major part of the game is interacting with people and making choices that affect the outcome of situations.

For example: In Halo or diablo 2 there are the same cut scene dialogs played after a boss fight and I have zero possibility of affecting the story, that is to me low roleplaying factor. In many japanese RPG the same scripted romance will play out at some moment, whether I want to or not, that is low roleplaying factor for me. In ME2 I choose from multiple responses and this affects the outcome of the conversation = high roleplaying factor to me.

Add all the conversation options and story elements from Mass Effect and add it to Halo and I would call it an RPG. But as I said, this is just my opinion. If anyone can prove me wrong, I don't mind really. The fact that I love ME2 has nothing to do with if it can be accuratly be labeled an RPG or not.

So choice defines RPG?  So you want to say Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is an RPG?  Rather than admit you don't know what makes an RPG you'd rather say something absolutley rediculous?

I have never played Call of Duty Moder Warfare 2, so I have no idea of how it is played,, but somehow I think I would have noticed if that game had had as much storytelling, character interaction, conversations and choices as ME2.

If you read the last part of what I wrote you'll see that I really couldn't care less if ME2 can be accuratly named an RPG or not. I have no sentimental attachement to to old school RPG based on the DnD formula as such. THe rules where never anything but a viechle to carry the story. If the story can be carried as well without all the elements of an old school RPG, why not? All I care about is the immersion and the story.

I'll help with CoD.  You play the role of several different soldiers.  Depeneding on how well you do or what choices you make you can alter the story.  It's a pure shooter.  There's no advancement.  Just guns, shooting, more guns,  **** tons more shooting, vehicle with guns on them etc....

Oh and every kind of game has can have storytelling, character interaction, conversations and choices.  ME2 is also quite a small game with limited choice compared to most other games on the market currently.  You should play more games than the ones you see advertised on TV.  If you want an immersive thrill ride pick up Dante's Inferno.  You'll be blown away.

But my question was "what seperates an RPG from any other genre?".  If you want to take a stab at it fine but don't respond with a glorified "I don't care" post that has nothing to do with the question.