465 réponses à ce sujet

[Xandurpein]

bjdbwea wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Could you please explain to me how the design choice of having several shorter stories, rather than one main plot could in anyway be construed as 'catering to casual gamers'.

In short: Casual games = quick in, quick out. It has to be possible to start and quit playing at leisure and at any time. Not compatible with this concept are: "Complicated" things and everything that requires you to sit there for a longer time or to remember things. But all these things are required for proper main stories with a minimum of depth. So, there.

Xandurpein wrote...

Agreed it is in a sense a collection of short stories, rather than a long story, but show me any game that has more well written and thought provoking stories than Mass Effect 2. I can think of a few that can stand next to it, but they are all from Bioware.

That is true, and doesn't speak well for the gaming industry. Indeed, almost all my examples would come from BioWare, the best example ME 1. That's why I am as disappointed with ME 2 as I am. The short stories would be great if they were side quests. It would indeed be the best companion side quests ever. But as the main game, it just doesn't cut it. ME 1 was like a playable Hollywood movie. ME 2 is like a playable TV series. Good for you if you like this change. I don't.

I can understand your opinion, but please show me in what way ME1 forced you to play longer stretches or are not possible to play in a casual way.

ME2 is perfectly fine to me as a second part of trilogy, if it is used to lay the ground for ME3. I would have been as disapointed as you, if ME2 had been the final part of the series, but it isn't. I think I would also share some of your concerns if it turns out that the 'forming the team' theme for ME2 turns out to be just for ME2 and we don't keep the squad mates from ME1 and 2 in ME3. Maybe I'm an optimist, but so far I am still hopeful though.

[Firmijn]

BobbyTheI wrote...

Fan of BioWare since BG1.  Loved ME2.

I wish the "true fans" would stop making these threads speaking for the rest of us. 

Shepard approves

[AM50]

To the OP: I don't agree with you at all. ME2 was geared toward the mainstream crowd correct. But BioWare did not sacrifice story for it. The story was the best I have ever seen in a video game. Coming from one who has played A LOT of games. KOTOR was my favorite game until Mass Effect 2.



And the story wasn't really short either. 25+ hours is a pretty big game. Considering most single player games are typically 8-15 hours long. RPGs tend to be a little longer. Dragon Age was 40-60 hours long. Not every good game has to be 100 hour FF type of game.



And as BobbyTheI said, I wish the "true fans" would stop speaking for the rest of us.

[The Mythical Magician]

AM50 wrote...
 I wish the "true fans" would stop speaking for the rest of us.

Okay this is getting annoying, no where in my original post did I say I speak for everybody. I only said that "good portion of us" &  "me and most likely many others".
<_<

[CmdrFenix83]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

Yes I know but the story took a backside to the combat in ME2, what I am trying to say about the series is that in ME1 I didn't cared about the darn shooting aspect of the game because it wasn't what the game is about it was about the story but ME2 did a 180 and made the shooting aspect the main draw to the game which is why I am blaming mainstream audience because gamers these day are more into shooters than games with great stories. ME2 Imo lack story for a better shooter

Good combat increases the likelyhood of someone replaying the game.  If the combat is boring, no matter how good the story, graphics, etc are, no one will play through the game a second time(See Final Fantasy 8). 

ME2 had a solid story, it was about building your team.  Getting the smartest, strongest, and deadliest possible people together to face the Reapers' puppet Collectors.  ME1 was all about taking down Saren, and chasing him around.  ME3 will be about rallying the galaxy and finding some way to actually stop the Reapers once and for all. 

However, the combat in ME1 was extrodinarily bland.  Once you got into the 30's, level-wise, you were practically invincible as any class.  Every single person went with Spectre X and Collosus X for their gear once they got their hands on them.  Both of them blew every other weapon/armor out of the water.  Savant X for amps/omnitools, again, nothing even came close to being as good.  No class needed cover at that point, your armor was so strong that you could take rockets and plasma bolts to the face, and shrug it off, even without immunity.  This was broken gameplay.

ME2 revamped the combat half of the game, and did so remarkably in my opinion.  We've got a solid combat system, we've built our team of the galaxy's ultimate badasses, and we're ready for third installment where we get to focus entirely on the Reapers.  It will be glorious.

[The Siff Lord]

kraidy1117 wrote...

ME2 has everything a RPG games needs. Even forbid you can't sell anything! ME2 has everything DAO had, so if you are saying ME2 is not an RPG (ME2 is a shooter RPG, not a classic, JRP, tactical RPG ect) then you might as well say DAO is not an RPG which is just stupid.

Seriously??? Not only do you discount any RPG differences between ME & ME2, but now you want to say that ME2 is on the same level as DAO?? 

[Jackal904]

BobbyTheI wrote...

I wish the "true fans" would stop making these threads speaking for the rest of us. 

Agreed. I'm not sure what the OP doesn't like about ME2, but I have a huge fan of both Mass Effect games and I love the way ME2 turned out.

[CmdrFenix83]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

With the amount of squad members you can get it should of been 6 main plot quests (after you get The Normandy SR2) that doesn't have to do with the squad members story but still effects the Collectors/Reaper story.

Lazarus Station
Freedom's Progress
Horizon
Collector Ship
Derelict Reaper
Suicide Mission

::gasp:: 6 main plot quests!

[CmdrFenix83]

ZennExile wrote...

No one said anything about not liking something you like.  I said if you want to share your love of something you can't be subjective about it.  You have to ask yourself "why?" and then try to objectively relay that information.  The reason for this is because how you "feel" is based on your own personal context and experiences and no one will ever really understand what you mean.  The only way to communicate those "feelings" is to present them in an objective way.

He has no obligation to tell you why he likes something.  He enjoyed the game, and stated the things he liked.  There's no forum law that states he has to defend his likes/dislikes to a well-known troll.

[FataliTensei]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

EDITED: I believe why ME2 failed for a good portion of us is because of Bioware's focus on the mainstream crowd though business wise it is prefect for making quick money but overall you guys lost the main plot on this switch of focus. I'm a fan of you guys and I love your work but ME2 disappointed me and most likely many others. I hope on your next project you guys focus on more on the story of a game than trying to please every crowd out there.

ME2 is a great game but its not as great as its predecessor for the fact that the focus was different which Imo sacrificed the main plot and the immersion.
<_<

Yep

[The Mythical Magician]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

The Mythical Magician wrote...

With the amount of squad members you can get it should of been 6 main plot quests (after you get The Normandy SR2) that doesn't have to do with the squad members story but still effects the Collectors/Reaper story.

Lazarus Station
Freedom's Progress
Horizon
Collector Ship
Derelict Reaper
Suicide Mission

::gasp:: 6 main plot quests!

I count Four. please read my post thoroughly before you counter it.

Modifié par The Mythical Magician, 25 février 2010 - 06:27 .

[TyDurden13]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Lazarus Station
Freedom's Progress
Horizon
Collector Ship
Derelict Reaper
Suicide Mission

::gasp:: 6 main plot quests!

Yeah, there was roughly the same amount of of main plot quests in ME1 and ME2.  I just think it may have seemed like less because they were spread out.  I think the throughline of the story could have benefited from a a "reminder" function (like maybe Harbinger or some villain could have stalked you on some of your side missions as you were builind up the squad) for this reason, but ultimately I think we got the same amount of plot movement as in the original ME.

Also, (as I stated in another thread) whether you cared about the ME2 characters or not, their "sidequets" and vignettes fleshed out the ME2 galaxy and some its factions, races, etc.

[TyDurden13]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Lazarus Station
Freedom's Progress
Horizon
Collector Ship
Derelict Reaper
Suicide Mission

::gasp:: 6 main plot quests!

Yeah, there was roughly the same amount of of main plot quests in ME1 and ME2.  I just think it may have seemed like less because they were spread out.  I think the throughline of the story could have benefited from a a "reminder" function (like maybe Harbinger or some villain could have stalked you on some of your side missions as you were builind up the squad) for this reason, but ultimately I think we got the same amount of plot movement as in the original ME.

Also, (as I stated in another thread) whether you cared about the ME2 characters or not, their "sidequets" and vignettes fleshed out the ME2 galaxy and some its factions, races, etc.

[CmdrFenix83]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

When it comes to loot it is pretty weak imo, I'm not complaining about the amount just yet.. (DLC is the reason why) but what I am complaining about is the inventory system in ME2, I miss being able to switch from different guns in one type in a battlezone and  to change my team mate's armor.

:: Shepard looks over at the army of Geth pelting his cover with bullets. ::  "Time out!  Hold on!  This dead one here dropps some better armor, give me a minute to change!"

:: Geth look back and forth at each other, confused, and then resume shooting at Shepard's dumb ass. ::

[CmdrFenix83]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Been a Bioware fan since BG1. ME2 has nearly destroyed my interest in Bioware games.

I wish the "true fanbois" would stop making posts similarly speaking for the rest of us. The OP made many points I agree with. Deal with it.

We've seen your thoughts on the subject.  "Liara wasn't handled how I wanted her to in the sequel, therefor I hate BioWare!"  Yes, we get it.  No one cares.

[CmdrFenix83]

ZennExile wrote...

So choice defines RPG?  So you want to say Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 is an RPG?  Rather than admit you don't know what makes an RPG you'd rather say something absolutley rediculous?

BioWare has already had their say on the matter, it's even inside of ME2.  So just for you Zenn, here.

www.youtube.com/watch

[The Mythical Magician]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Been a Bioware fan since BG1. ME2 has nearly destroyed my interest in Bioware games.

I wish the "true fanbois" would stop making posts similarly speaking for the rest of us. The OP made many points I agree with. Deal with it.

We've seen your thoughts on the subject.  "Liara wasn't handled how I wanted her to in the sequel, therefor I hate BioWare!"  Yes, we get it.  No one cares.

Lmfao!!! Um.. I care about his opinion
 

[Kyria Nyriese]

keginkc wrote...

Lareit wrote...

Bg1 and beyond fan here
ME2 is only behind BG2 as my favorite game of all time

Same for me.

It's also the most addictive BioWare game for me to date.  I'm having a hard time playing through Dragon Age - which I also loved... - again now as a lead-in for Awakening, because I want so badly to be playing ME2 for a 4th time.

Agreed to both posters.  I too am having difficulty playing Dragon Age because I want to play more ME 2.

Also been a Bioware fan for years, and ME 2 rocks.  Personally it drives me crazy to play the RPGs (JRPGs, I think my husband calls them) where I have to sit for hours on end looking over stats on gear and mindlessly grinding to get to the next level.  I'm not a huge fan of shooters, but Bioware did a great job adding just enough elements from a shooter to make this game awesome.

For the record this is my personal opinion, you don't have to agree with it, just don't speak for me.  Thanks.

[FataliTensei]

I personally preferred ME1, more work was put on story and RPG elements, with shooter elements being part of the main gameplay experience



I like ME2 also, the combat is more fluid and not having to go to the power wheel during combat is nice, however I do not like how RPG elements were stripped down so the shooter crowd would get more interested in it, it made the game too...well just like a game more than anything else, immersion was heavily set back in ME2



Both are fun games, I just prefer most of ME1



If they could get back the RPG elements of ME1 and keep the fluid combat of ME2, then ME3 could be Super Special Awesome

[bjdbwea]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Good combat increases the likelyhood of someone replaying the game.  If the combat is boring, no matter how good the story, graphics, etc are, no one will play through the game a second time(See Final Fantasy 8).

As some are so keen at pointing out: Speak for yourself, please. Thanks. For me, the story is the most important part. There are enough shooters already, and guess what, many have better combat than ME 2.

[CmdrFenix83]

The Mythical Magician wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

The Mythical Magician wrote...

With the amount of squad members you can get it should of been 6 main plot quests (after you get The Normandy SR2) that doesn't have to do with the squad members story but still effects the Collectors/Reaper story.

Lazarus Station
Freedom's Progress
Horizon
Collector Ship
Derelict Reaper
Suicide Mission

::gasp:: 6 main plot quests!

I count Four. please read my post thoroughly before you counter it.

So you wanted 8 missions?  ME1 only had 5 missions once you got ahold of the Normandy yourself.

ME1: 7 main missions

Eden Prime
Citadel
Therum
Feros
Noveria
Virmire
Ilos

ME2:  6 main missions

Lazarus Station
Freedom's Progress
Horizon
Collector Ship
Derelict Reaper
Suicide Mission

And this is assuming *none* of the Recruitment missions count, though technically, Mordin is as required, story-wise in ME2 as Liara was in ME1.  If you add his to the ME2 list, you have 7 and 7, with ME2 having another 6 recruitment and *11* loyalty missions on top of it.

Even if you don't do any loyalty missions, and consider them to be 'sidequests', you still have more missions with the main plot in ME2 than you did in ME1.  You forget that ME2 is about building your team for a suicide mission, every recruitment mission was about the main plot.

[Skilled Seeker]

BobbyTheI wrote...

Fan of BioWare since BG1.  Loved ME2.

I wish the "true fans" would stop making these threads speaking for the rest of us. 

This. I hate it when random forum nubs think they are entitled to speak for us all.

[CmdrFenix83]

bjdbwea wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Good combat increases the likelyhood of someone replaying the game.  If the combat is boring, no matter how good the story, graphics, etc are, no one will play through the game a second time(See Final Fantasy 8).

As some are so keen at pointing out: Speak for yourself, please. Thanks. For me, the story is the most important part. There are enough shooters already, and guess what, many have better combat than ME 2.

Don't get me wrong, story is integral to a good game.  Good combat with a flat story will fall just as flat as a great story with horrible gameplay.  I didn't hate ME1's gameplay.  In fact, over the two years since ME1 came out, I've cleared it with 15 different characters.  However, in the first three weeks since ME2 came out, I've already played through it with 7 of them. 

On the other hand, Dragon Age, I couldn't stand the combat.  A real-time system that essentially requires turn-based micromanagement just doesn't work for me.  I don't enjoy having to pause every couple seconds to have my entire team use abilities.  While I loved the story, and would have loved to play through it again as a different character, I won't, because I hated the combat.

[StreetlightEagle]

I too felt like they strayed a bit too far away from what they started in ME1. Most good trilogies go like this: Create characters that audience can relate to and like, expand and develop characters, end story arcs of such characters. Mass effect created really likeable characters and their story arcs, dropped them and created a whole bunch of characters for us to relate to, kinda like they started the series again. How would you have felt if Empire just said "Yeah, Han, Leia, Chewbacca and C3PO went to live on endor, Luke now hangs around with Lando, Boba Fett and a resurrected Grand Moff Tarkin" ??

Modifié par StreetlightEagle, 25 février 2010 - 07:03 .

[FataliTensei]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

I too felt like they strayed a bit too far away from what they started in ME1. Most good trilogies go like this: Create characters that audience can relate to and like, expand and develop characters, end story arcs of such characters. Mass effect created really likeable characters and their story arcs, dropped them and created a whole bunch of characters for us to relate to, kinda like they started the series again. How would you have felt if Empire just said "Yeah, Han, Leia, Chewbacca and C3PO went to live on endor, Luke now hangs around with Lando, Boba Fett and a resurrected Grand Moff Tarkin" ??

Oddly this comparison holds some value