126 réponses à ce sujet

[Tekyu]

DaveTheJackal wrote...

Childishly expressed maybe, but I'd just trying to emulate the childish hissyfits the no-helmeters throw. Terrible arguments? I don't think so.

I'd suggest any players who want Shepard to speak with helmet off, should have to watch a 20 second scene where the helmet is removed at the start of a cutscene, then watch as it's replaced at the end. Perhaps then they'd realise why it's not removed that often.

Alternatively, Bioware could add a remove/don helmet key. Losing the helmet bonus in combat, if it's not being worn.

I really don't see why a helmet is a problem. The whole of the Halo IP is played through helmeted, who would complain of lack of immersion there?

I actually enjoyed scenes in my full faced helmet, going round interviewing people stormtrooper style.

Ah ha. I see where this is going.

So, basically you're just throwing a tantrum because people who aren't Stormtrooper perverts like yourself would actually like to see the character they create? This hurts you... how? Why do you obsess over hair and dolls? Why are you being so purposely dense about this, provided you're not just trolling for the attention? For the record, you made the most idiotic arguments EVER comparing things entirely unrelated, and then you try to insult people by making juvenile implications that ALSO don't even apply to your suggestion in the first place.

Please, go kick off your fantasies in real life by throwing a trash bag over your head. But don't punch any holes... you'll let space in.

[cos1ne]

Space Shot wrote...

So?  You can't have your cake and eat it to so just make up your mind on one (helmet) or the other (no helmet) so we can move onto something that might actually benefit the game, rather than your own indecisiveness.

It's not indecisiveness, I blatantly refuse to use the DLC armors because of it. However I find it a bit disingenuous of the devs to have a helmet toggle in ME1 and then take it away for no apparent reason, and then find them "shocked" that the vast majority of the community disapproves of this move.

I mean I stand by the idea of lazy and/or rushed programming, considering the N7 armor has a helmet toggle but the DLC armors do not. And yes something this small does bother me and makes me question the direction of Bioware's game standards post-EA.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

A combat helmet is fine to be on when in combat or talking to people during a mission.... It actually makes more sense that way and it pretty cool sounding too imo.

But when you go into a town and aren't expecting trouble (and will eventually be interacting with people, taking it easy, drinking, having sexy times).... why in the world would anyone keep their helmet on?

It's not that we wanna see our character's face all the time....we just don't want the stupid-ness of drinking, kissing, recognizing through the helmet to happen.

Once again, I think the DLC armors and even the N7 with the full helmet look AMAZING, but when I'm in a non-combat situation, I should be able to toggle it off. Sorry, just makes sense.

Modifié par xxSgt_Reed_24xx, 26 février 2010 - 12:57 .

[grimeyhippy]

dave is probably a ****** who has to wear a helmet irl, maybe he thinks if it's "cool" in a videogame it will eventually be cool irl.

no, it's just retarded

Modifié par grimeyhippy, 26 février 2010 - 12:58 .

[Space Shot]

BellaStrega wrote...

So?  We "had our cake and ate it too" in ME1. This would benefit the game.

It's not that great of an idea to cling to an argument that can be defeated with the word "how?"

This get's into my prior line of reasoning in that this issue has no meaningful relation to any tangible aspect of the game but has everything to do with our faulty expectations and our childish attempts to try to vindicate them.  We expected helmet toggles, but they weren't there.  Now, this does nothing against the game (which is probably why toggles were removed.  Having more stat-pieces for armor customization probably comes before a meaningless switch, in Bioware's eyes.) but it does conflict with our world view which had previously incorperated helmet toggles along with the rest of reality.  Now that there are no helmet toggles, that "rest of reality" is called into question as the validity of our perspective also becomes questionable.   Instead of taking a path that leads to critical self-reflection, however, we question reality instead because we cannot be wrong.  It must.  So, we whine about something like helmet toggles when we have things like KOTOR-esque unmoving NPC's and limited mission segments having far greater consequences on the quality of the game.

Now, you could extend this into "well this is what you just want," but a better quality game is probably the aim of more players than just myself.  And so we come to the conclusion of this whole mess.  Either leave this alone, and accept it for the silly little thing it is and move on with your game-time or continue to whine and hope that with enough tears the universe bends to meet your distorted view of it.  Who knows, the latter might very well work in a capitalistic society, but then again it would probably be a lot less trouble if you took things with the appropriate amount of effort due to them.

[GENJason]

Now, and don't get me wrong when I say this, I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that there should a Helmet toggle, like in the first. But, really all of this arguing is absolutely pointless. Look, really, you are getting nowhere in your arguments. So, to save valuable forum space

1. A Helmet Toggle is probably not going to happen in the near future, it is just not a priority

2. Remember, we are also including EA in the Development of the Game, and we all know EA likes to rush things.

3. Just stop b*tching and moaning.



Done. Now, I will ask again are you getting anywhere, nor anything in your mindless babbling?



P.S.~ Don't start with me, I have read and do understand all reasoning here.



GENJason

[DemonSlayer_1]

Helmets are an integral part of the game

I love the cerberus armor, but at the same time I hate the helmet always being on.

Now more to the point
-When I first start out I use recon hood, atleast until I can fix facial scarring.
-After that I switch between N7 Breather, Recon Hood, and Visor

What gets me is the fact that even when I am wearing a recon hood on omega for the very first entrance. The characters know who I am. I should be unknown when I approach any new location first time if my face is covered.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

DaveTheJackal wrote...

Did the storm troopers in starwars remove their helmets every time they spoke to someone?
What about the clones in clone wars?
What about the Predator, ok he removes it, but once, right at the end.
What about the Halo series? Does anyone ever complain there?

Carrying a helmet under one's arm is not comfortable so it's not like anyone would do it for that reason.
Why would you wear a combat helmet with an open face when it affords so much less protection?

Why are people so obsessed with seeing their girly flowing hair when it sacrifices so much realism?

EDIT: Why don't players who want to see their character's face just wear an open face helmet or visor?

Master Chief is in a warzone throughout every game he's featured.  Why in the blue hell would he take off his helmet?  He's not having idle chat with people or making out with people.  He's shooting things, and hopping into vehicles so he can shoot more things.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Just enjoy your 'SPLOSHUNS DTJ. The rest of us who want an immersive experience through story/dialogue etc, will voice our justifiable disappointment.

[grimeyhippy]

GENJason wrote...

Now, and don't get me wrong when I say this, I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that there should a Helmet toggle, like in the first. But, really all of this arguing is absolutely pointless. Look, really, you are getting nowhere in your arguments. So, to save valuable forum space
1. A Helmet Toggle is probably not going to happen in the near future, it is just not a priority
2. Remember, we are also including EA in the Development of the Game, and we all know EA likes to rush things.
3. Just stop b*tching and moaning.

Done. Now, I will ask again are you getting anywhere, nor anything in your mindless babbling?

P.S.~ Don't start with me, I have read and do understand all reasoning here.

GENJason

 
forums are made for ****ing and moaning, welcome to the internets

[Space Shot]

cos1ne wrote...

Space Shot wrote...

So?  You can't have your cake and eat it to so just make up your mind on one (helmet) or the other (no helmet) so we can move onto something that might actually benefit the game, rather than your own indecisiveness.

It's not indecisiveness, I blatantly refuse to use the DLC armors because of it. However I find it a bit disingenuous of the devs to have a helmet toggle in ME1 and then take it away for no apparent reason, and then find them "shocked" that the vast majority of the community disapproves of this move.

I mean I stand by the idea of lazy and/or rushed programming, considering the N7 armor has a helmet toggle but the DLC armors do not. And yes something this small does bother me and makes me question the direction of Bioware's game standards post-EA.

Good for you.  You made a decision.  Sure, it cost you some options but you can't possibly expect that you can have everything in life.  Take my college education.  I could have double majored had my department change the "parameters" of the "game" to accommodate my specific needs, which is very apparent to me, but they didn't and I was forced to choose one option and forgo another, just as you are doing with DLC armor though with more undue, unjust, and unreasonable vitriol.

[cos1ne]

You know what, they need to do, just cut out all the time it takes to do facial animations, remove the face editor for mass effect 3 and just force us to wear helmets all the time in the next game, that a way they can free up valuable resources for things like more vehicles and weapons which is all what we really just want anyway.....

[TheBMT]

scyphozoa wrote...

my issue is that the n7 armor is an option. if there was no option, i'd be furious. but people who are complaining so loudly are doing so over 4-5 pieces of dlc armor, max. thats it, bonus armor.

furthermore, i think the idea of retooling me2 in a patch so these 5 stupid armors can be unhelmed is a poor use of resources. i would rather see bioware release new n7 pieces than untoggle helmets from dlc armor.

How hard can it be to fix the helmet issue?  Its not like we are asking for color customization of the armor, or to add the different armor options.  Would it have been nice?  Yea I was expecting that all the armors would be customizable.  Not just the standard N7 armor to play around with.  

Even a face option, half face, no helmet and eye piece could all work with each armor.  I think it might be toughest with the Collector armor though.

[TJSolo]

Space Shot wrote...

At some level but this is fiction.  Holding it to be more than that is not quite the healthiest thing to do.  

But to the actual issue, if this were Bioware's first game would you be so inclined to complain about the lack of a helmet switch?  No, because the issue isn't with any recognizable negative state adversely affecting the game but with an unmet expectation that demands satisfaction regardless of any of the actual consequences that are to be had.  It's a flaw of human reasoning, not of game design.  We thought it would be there, it wasn't, but the actual implications are to be damned in favor of a more satisfactory approach that tries to vindicate our inaccurate expectations so we can still feel good about ourselves despite the fact that we were wrong.

That is why there has been so many posts and so much discussion about something so bleedingly insignificant.   Our egos have been offended, and they demand justice through helmet toggles.  

Dealing with facts, this is not their first game.
The precedent was created with helmet toggle/removal in prior games.
It was an accurate notion given Biowares history and focus on facial features that it would be an option to have the characters face shown when talking, drinking, or kissing outside of the Normandy. That is what shows flaws in the design and implementation.

The fact that it is not there was not an issue. The fact there are moments were it is clear the designers forgot there would be a helmet obstructing the action.

You are still making presumptions that people are unable to tell reality from fiction. Which is wholly not the case nor the point.

You speak of actual implications in regard to not having helmet toggling/remove. Pray tell what are the actual implications?

[SkullandBonesmember]

cos1ne wrote...

You know what, they need to do, just cut out all the time it takes to do facial animations, remove the face editor for mass effect 3 and just force us to wear helmets all the time in the next game, that a way they can free up valuable resources for things like more vehicles and weapons which is all what we really just want anyway.....

Well put. Who needs stupid things that add to the roleplaying aspect if it takes away valuable time from 'SPLOSHUNS?

[cos1ne]

Space Shot wrote...
Good for you.  You made a decision.  Sure, it cost you some options but you can't possibly expect that you can have everything in life.  Take my college education.  I could have double majored had my department change the "parameters" of the "game" to accommodate my specific needs, which is very apparent to me, but they didn't and I was forced to choose one option and forgo another, just as you are doing with DLC armor though with more undue, unjust, and unreasonable vitriol.

I'm ok with not having a helmet toggle that may buggy up the game, what I'm not ok with is not being able to remove the helmet on my Inferno armor for instance in my cabin like I can with the n7 armor. I mean if I can keep the helmet off for the n7 armor, how can you logically justify the fact that I can't take keep it off for the DLC armors.

Also my vitriol doesn't come from that fact, but my impressions that Bioware's standards of quality that have made me a loyal customer of their products is now seemingly lowered by lack of choices in the DLC amor when the base N7 armor has the ability to remove helmets.

Again in the grand scheme of things it's completely silly but for me it does break immersion, which lessens my enjoyment of the game. I don't really care so much for a toggle, just have it so I can remove my helmet on any armor and I would be fine.

[BellaStrega]

ivan.inverse wrote...

BellaStrega wrote...
There are no convincing arguments against some form of helmet toggle in this thread. There are a lot of people who wrongly think that because they like how the game is that everyone else should too, but most people get over that kind of self-centeredness as they grow up.

Not that I disagree that improvements should be made if they could be, but where do you get off talking about self-centeredness while DEMANDING that BioWare make potentially bug-inducing changes to a game interface that most people find, at least, passable?

This is a feature that was removed.

All added features are potentially bug inducing. I  look forward to you never asking for any change to any game ever.

[BellaStrega]

cos1ne wrote...

Space Shot wrote...
Good for you.  You made a decision.  Sure, it cost you some options but you can't possibly expect that you can have everything in life.  Take my college education.  I could have double majored had my department change the "parameters" of the "game" to accommodate my specific needs, which is very apparent to me, but they didn't and I was forced to choose one option and forgo another, just as you are doing with DLC armor though with more undue, unjust, and unreasonable vitriol.

I'm ok with not having a helmet toggle that may buggy up the game, what I'm not ok with is not being able to remove the helmet on my Inferno armor for instance in my cabin like I can with the n7 armor. I mean if I can keep the helmet off for the n7 armor, how can you logically justify the fact that I can't take keep it off for the DLC armors.

Also my vitriol doesn't come from that fact, but my impressions that Bioware's standards of quality that have made me a loyal customer of their products is now seemingly lowered by lack of choices in the DLC amor when the base N7 armor has the ability to remove helmets.

Again in the grand scheme of things it's completely silly but for me it does break immersion, which lessens my enjoyment of the game. I don't really care so much for a toggle, just have it so I can remove my helmet on any armor and I would be fine.

When people say "This change could add bugs!"  they're just trying to derail the discussion from the possibility of adding new features. All changes could add bugs. That's not really something that needs to be invoked or questioned. What it comes down to is whether the QOL  change is worth it?  Since such a change will cost the people who don't want it nothing at all, one wonders why they're so invested in demanding that everyone who does want it shut up and go away. It's like they think the game is for them, and them only.

[SkullandBonesmember]

I can only speak for the Mass Effect games, I don't know Bioware's history and if it's exclusive to Mass Effect, but it's not like removing the toggle takes away all of Bioware's glitches. There must be dozens of glitches from Mass Effect.

[lukandroll]

DaveTheJackal wrote...

Dokteur Kill wrote...

But it makes the (admittedly very cool looking) DLC armours rather useless. As well as the helmets for the N7 armour, some of which actually have their uses.

The problem is that I , and many other players, actually like wearing that armour during conversations.

Why would you want to remove armour, for example, when interviewing a crime suspect? It just doesn't make sense.

Who said anything abour removing it for good, we just want a toggle switch like in ME1.
Are you just trolling? or is it me

[Qwepir]

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

This is the N7 Helmet


This is a current Military helmet


Notice the difference? The N7 Helmet has nothing exposed (if you remove the rebreather, then the face is).

Do you understand that maybe some of us want to see the character we spent so much time creating? That we want to see our characters expressions? Everyone here has mentioned how it breaks up the immersion when a character recognizes Shepard from a distance, dispite having his helmet on. And the N7 armor? It's standard alliance.

Good Lord dude you ain't the overwhelming majority, please stop and realize that just because you don't like something doesn't mean you're right.

Excuse me, your example pic of the N7 helmet is only required when you go to inhospitable environments, like planets with no atmosphere, or poisonous ones.

ogm that guy should take off his helmet

Personally, I think there should be a little toggle helmet button like there was in ME1.

Modifié par Qwepir, 26 février 2010 - 01:39 .

[lukandroll]

ivan.inverse wrote...

BellaStrega wrote...

ivan.inverse wrote...

BellaStrega wrote...
There are no convincing arguments against some form of helmet toggle in this thread. There are a lot of people who wrongly think that because they like how the game is that everyone else should too, but most people get over that kind of self-centeredness as they grow up.

Not that I disagree that improvements should be made if they could be, but where do you get off talking about self-centeredness while DEMANDING that BioWare make potentially bug-inducing changes to a game interface that most people find, at least, passable?

This is a feature that was removed.

All added features are potentially bug inducing. I  look forward to you never asking for any change to any game ever.

Ever wonder WHY it was removed? Maybe that it was being problematic and HAD to be removed for one reason or another? Maybe it would have delayed the release for a comparatively frivolous addition that caused more trouble than it was worth?

I don't think so, ME1 was full of bugs, but the toggle switch worked like charm.. I don't think I'll be that difficult to have it back.
There is no excuse, a sequel should always have more features, not less.