244 réponses à ce sujet

[TyDurden13]

Ecael wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

Oghren can die in DA:O and yet he is being brought into the expansion.  So it is possible.   Presumedly they are working on variables where he does not appear if you killed him. 

Correction. Dragon Age introduced new Dwarf Warrior character recently. Name is Sigrun. Status of Oghren still unknown.

Oh.  Well, no matter who the "returning favorite" is, it will be someone who is potentially dead in DA:O, since you ca kill off every party member.  The only sort-of exception would be MOrrigan, since you cannot kill her during the course of the actual game, but she dies in the epilogue under certain circumstances if you pursued certain story choices.

[Nozybidaj]

Ecael wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I dunno, if they had included all the characters that they should have in ME2 I think people would have been pretty close to universally happy with it, at least as far as that particular issue of the game goes.  I don't see many complaints of "why didn't you NOT include so an so in ME2".

Yet...

Nosybidaj wrote...

I always find a little humorous when people to talk about how insignificant the romances are on a "Bioware" forum where every page of it is filled with "love threads".

And? 

[Nozybidaj]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

Oghren can die in DA:O and yet he is being brought into the expansion.  So it is possible.   Presumedly they are working on variables where he does not appear if you killed him. 

Correction. Dragon Age introduced new Dwarf Warrior character recently. Name is Sigrun. Status of Oghren still unknown.

Oh.  Well, no matter who the "returning favorite" is, it will be someone who is potentially dead in DA:O, since you ca kill off every party member.  The only sort-of exception would be MOrrigan, since you cannot kill her during the course of the actual game, but she dies in the epilogue under certain circumstances if you pursued certain story choices.

Dog.

[screwoffreg]

shinobi602 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

That's all you need to know, and that's why Miranda's more likely to come back than the others. In actuality, if we knew the terms of Yvonne Strahovski's voice actress contract, we could confirm whether we're right or wrong.

Keep a look out on her IMDB profile for when "Mass Effect 3" pops up

I thought so too, but that doesn't usually work as it happens AFTER the fact often.  In the case of movies, that is a different story.  

[Ecael]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

Oghren can die in DA:O and yet he is being brought into the expansion.  So it is possible.   Presumedly they are working on variables where he does not appear if you killed him. 

Correction. Dragon Age introduced new Dwarf Warrior character recently. Name is Sigrun. Status of Oghren still unknown.

Oh.  Well, no matter who the "returning favorite" is, it will be someone who is potentially dead in DA:O, since you ca kill off every party member.  The only sort-of exception would be MOrrigan, since you cannot kill her during the course of the actual game, but she dies in the epilogue under certain circumstances if you pursued certain story choices.

Assumed Morrigan as villain for second game. Villain for expansion has good possibility. Expansion complete waste of time. Characters too bland, textures recycled.

[Ecael]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I dunno, if they had included all the characters that they should have in ME2 I think people would have been pretty close to universally happy with it, at least as far as that particular issue of the game goes.  I don't see many complaints of "why didn't you NOT include so an so in ME2".

Yet...

Nosybidaj wrote...

I always find a little humorous when people to talk about how insignificant the romances are on a "Bioware" forum where every page of it is filled with "love threads".

And?

Love thread good outlet for complaints. Some fans always disappointed. Third game sets up disappointment. Reapers main storyline, characters irrelevant.

[Nozybidaj]

Ecael wrote...
Love thread good outlet for complaints. Some fans always disappointed. Third game sets up disappointment. Reapers main storyline, characters irrelevant.

/shrug I was just wondering what your point of the previous post was, there didn't seem to be one.  For the issues we are discussing there obviously are ways to make everyone happy.  BW simply chose not to.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 25 février 2010 - 09:41 .

[Computron2000]

Well i was testing the no upgrade death order, so mihght as well do Miranda testing as well. Will update this post as test is done

If you go in with no upgrades,
i) Jack dies if no hull plating upgrade
ii) Tali dies if no kinetic barrier upgrades, Legion dies if you take Tali vs the occulus, Thane dies if you take both, Garrus takes the rear of the queue if Legion is sold and Tali/Thane in the occulus team
iii) Thane dies if you never upgraded weapons, Garrus if Thane already dead.

Also in the biotic barrier segment with a half biotic or unloyal Jack/Samara, i find Thane and Legion dying when paired up with others. Another poster noted Jack dies then as well. Last 3 biotic shield runs Tali died ahead of Zaeed, Grunt died ahead of Zaeed, Mordin died ahead of Zaeed. Samara died ahead of Zaeed

In the hold the line segment, unloyal Zaeed survives alone without teammates ("situation is FUBAR!"), unloyal jacob dies if without teammates (Position is not secure!)

As a side note, Jack then Garrus then Jacob questions having Miranda as team leader on the first fire mission

Miranda testing
i) Miranda cannot be selected as the tech
ii) Miranda cannot die as second team lead even unloyal
iii) Miranda dies when the Hold the Line team consists of her and Jacob = Miranda more squishy than Jacob (Jacob survives), Miranda also dies when the Hold the line team is Miranda and Tali (both die)
iv) Zaeed dies ahead of Miranda in the biotic barrier part (note Zaeed's results vs Tali and Grunt), Samara also dies ahead of Miranda
v) Cannot be selected for escort duty
vi) Miranda dies in final battle

Verdict: Miranda cannot die until hold the line or the final battle. Squishness about the same as Tali

Bug note
Heat valve part of the suicide mission ignores all non opened valves as long as you get the final valve. Ignored valve 5-7 and opened valve 8, quest considered done

Modifié par Computron2000, 26 février 2010 - 12:10 .

[TyDurden13]

Nozybidaj wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

Oghren can die in DA:O and yet he is being brought into the expansion.  So it is possible.   Presumedly they are working on variables where he does not appear if you killed him. 

Correction. Dragon Age introduced new Dwarf Warrior character recently. Name is Sigrun. Status of Oghren still unknown.

Oh.  Well, no matter who the "returning favorite" is, it will be someone who is potentially dead in DA:O, since you ca kill off every party member.  The only sort-of exception would be MOrrigan, since you cannot kill her during the course of the actual game, but she dies in the epilogue under certain circumstances if you pursued certain story choices.

Dog.

Nope - you can kill dog at the camp before the Battle of Osstagar.

[Nozybidaj]

TyDurden13 wrote...


Nope - you can kill dog at the camp before the Battle of Osstagar.

For human noble too?  Though to be honest I had forgotten that.

[TyDurden13]

Nozybidaj wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...


Nope - you can kill dog at the camp before the Battle of Osstagar.

For human noble too?  Though to be honest I had forgotten that.

Actually, yeah, if you are human noble he might not be killable. 

[Ecael]

*pops out of Mordin speak*

/shrug I was just wondering what your point of the previous post was,
there didn't seem to be one.  For the issues we are discussing there
obviously are ways to make everyone happy.  BW simply chose not to.

Now you see why there is no point in coming forward with love threads. We organics are driven by emotion instead of logic. We will fight even when we know we cannot win.

But if we compromise with the characters--if we make ourselves useful--think how many cameos could be spared!

Once I understood this, I posted on this thread, though I was aware of the... arguments. I had hoped BioWare's reasoning would protect me.

I've seen the lack of character interaction. The more options BioWare exerts, the less significant the squadmate becomes. That is their saving grace.

...

[Madecologist]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

So the burden of proof is on me. Fine, here is my proof.

Unloyal Miranda will die as Second Fire Team Leader.

This is incorrect.  Have you read the thread?  Miranda survies as second fire team leader even if she is not loyal.  Furthermore, she is the ONLY squad member this is true of.  Look it up on YouTube if you need proof. 

Miranda will die if she fills the position of squad member X (I do not know if it is 2nd or 3rd but it tends to be the same) when an inappropriate Biotic is taken.

This is also incorrect.  See previous portions of the thread for discussion, since you have obviously not read it and I'm sure I am tired of explaining it.  She cannot die from the seeker swarm.   Again, this is the ONLY character this is true of.

Miranda will die if unloyal during the final battle. Miranda will die at the Line if the party score is not enough to ensure her survival.

Well you are correct here.  But those are the only 2 places Miranda can die   Anyone dies at the final boss if not loyal, so she is no different from anyone there.  There are so many variables with Holding the Line thatit's hard tosay, but she seems to be somewhere in the middle of the pack (meaning you need a prety good bloodbath or a particularly strange lineup) in terms of likliness to die there.  So, yes, all told she is more likely to survive than anyone else.

Well if what is said here is true. One of my friend's lied to me. He said he got Miranda killed as the Second Team Leader. The last one I know because that one I verified myself. Perhaps my friend goofed and his Miranda died in his last party or at the Line, and mislead me. Well I am gonna take your word for it (doubt you will lie here). And retract my first two examples.

But this goes to one of my earlier statements, her harder to kill nature is due to her role and not vice versa. What I am saying is the suicide mission is not what will determine ME3 focus. But Bioware's vision, player feedback (not datamined save games, but actually player feedback), and even if save files are used; they will look at the end result and not what people did on their first playthrough.

What I am railing against is claiming high "window of death" party members will be written out. Saying Miranda will have a big role is one thing, exploding the rest is another. Proving A does not disprove B or say anything about B.

[TyDurden13]

Computron2000 wrote...

Well i was testing the no upgrade death order, so mihght as well do Miranda testing as well. Will update this post as test is done

If you go in with no upgrades,
i) Jack dies if no hull plating upgrade
ii) Tali dies if no kinetic barrier upgrades, Legion dies if you take Tali vs the occulus, Thane dies if you take both, Garrus takes the rear of the queue if Legion is sold and Tali/Thane in the occulus team
iii) Thane dies if you never upgraded weapons, Garrus if Thane already dead.

Also in the biotic barrier segment with a half biotic or unloyal Jack/Samara, i find Thane and Legion dying when paired up with others. Another poster noted Jack dies then as well. Last run Tali died ahead of Zaeed

As a side note, Jack then Garrus then Jacob questions having Miranda as team leader on the first fire mission

Miranda testing
i) Miranda cannot be selected as the tech

Here, I'll save you the trouble.

-She does not die from any of the ship upgrades
-She cannot be selected for the vents
-She cannot be selected to escort the crew
-She cannot die from the seeker swarm.  The weird with this is: Someone playing on the PC found a glitch where there is an animation of her dying in the swarm.  This was never implemented into the game though, as no sound was recorded for this sequence.  Also, should you see this scene, Miranda appears alive and well (and selectable) in the following segment, indicating it is a glitch.  To m knowledge, it is not possible to even see his scene playing on XBox.
-She dies if you take her to the final batte and she isn't loyal.
-She can die holding the line under certain circumstances.  Given all the variables with line score, it's hard to say exactly where she falls among most/least likely to die.  Certainly if she is loyal it is far less likely (and might bempossible).  If doesn't seem as squishy as Mordin, Tali, or Jack, nor as tough as Grunt, Garrus, or Zaeed.  Seemto be about middle of the pack.

[TyDurden13]

Madecologist wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

So the burden of proof is on me. Fine, here is my proof.

Unloyal Miranda will die as Second Fire Team Leader.

This is incorrect.  Have you read the thread?  Miranda survies as second fire team leader even if she is not loyal.  Furthermore, she is the ONLY squad member this is true of.  Look it up on YouTube if you need proof. 

Miranda will die if she fills the position of squad member X (I do not know if it is 2nd or 3rd but it tends to be the same) when an inappropriate Biotic is taken.

This is also incorrect.  See previous portions of the thread for discussion, since you have obviously not read it and I'm sure I am tired of explaining it.  She cannot die from the seeker swarm.   Again, this is the ONLY character this is true of.

Miranda will die if unloyal during the final battle. Miranda will die at the Line if the party score is not enough to ensure her survival.

Well you are correct here.  But those are the only 2 places Miranda can die   Anyone dies at the final boss if not loyal, so she is no different from anyone there.  There are so many variables with Holding the Line thatit's hard tosay, but she seems to be somewhere in the middle of the pack (meaning you need a prety good bloodbath or a particularly strange lineup) in terms of likliness to die there.  So, yes, all told she is more likely to survive than anyone else.

Well if what is said here is true. One of my friend's lied to me. He said he got Miranda killed as the Second Team Leader. The last one I know because that one I verified myself. Perhaps my friend goofed and his Miranda died in his last party or at the Line, and mislead me. Well I am gonna take your word for it (doubt you will lie here). And retract my first two examples.

But this goes to one of my earlier statements, her harder to kill nature is due to her role and not vice versa. What I am saying is the suicide mission is not what will determine ME3 focus. But Bioware's vision, player feedback (not datamined save games, but actually player feedback), and even if save files are used; they will look at the end result and not what people did on their first playthrough.

What I am railing against is claiming high "window of death" party members will be written out. Saying Miranda will have a big role is one thing, exploding the rest is another. Proving A does not disprove B or say anything about B.

Yeah, i'm not speaking to any other character's liklihood to return - only Miranda's.  Personally I think her "role" and ability to survive the mission (whichevercme first - doesn't matter) says something about her liklihood to return.  Frankly I think there are other that are good bets to return as well.

[Computron2000]

TyDurden13 wrote...
Here, I'll save you the trouble.

-She does not die from any of the ship upgrades
-She cannot be selected for the vents
-She cannot be selected to escort the crew
-She cannot die from the seeker swarm.  The weird with this is: Someone playing on the PC found a glitch where there is an animation of her dying in the swarm.  This was never implemented into the game though, as no sound was recorded for this sequence.  Also, should you see this scene, Miranda appears alive and well (and selectable) in the following segment, indicating it is a glitch.  To m knowledge, it is not possible to even see his scene playing on XBox.
-She dies if you take her to the final batte and she isn't loyal.
-She can die holding the line under certain circumstances.  Given all the variables with line score, it's hard to say exactly where she falls among most/least likely to die.  Certainly if she is loyal it is far less likely (and might bempossible).  If doesn't seem as squishy as Mordin, Tali, or Jack, nor as tough as Grunt, Garrus, or Zaeed.  Seemto be about middle of the pack.

I know that is what she's supposed to be like, however since i was running the death sequence test for the upgrades, might as well re-verify the scenerios. I know for sure she dies in the final battle as i have run her before in it, the rest can be verified relatively easily

[Zulu_DFA]

Computron2000 wrote...

Well i was testing the no upgrade death order, so mihght as well do Miranda testing as well. Will update this post as test is done

If you go in with no upgrades,
i) Jack dies if no hull plating upgrade
ii) Tali dies if no kinetic barrier upgrades, Legion dies if you take Tali vs the occulus, Thane dies if you take both, Garrus takes the rear of the queue if Legion is sold and Tali/Thane in the occulus team
iii) Thane dies if you never upgraded weapons, Garrus if Thane already dead.

Also in the biotic barrier segment with a half biotic or unloyal Jack/Samara, i find Thane and Legion dying when paired up with others. Another poster noted Jack dies then as well. Last run Tali died ahead of Zaeed

As a side note, Jack then Garrus then Jacob questions having Miranda as team leader on the first fire mission

Miranda testing
i) Miranda cannot be selected as the tech

Hmmm... So, by the logic of the OP, looks like Tali's and Garrus's major screentime is over. However, Garrus has better chance to leave through "hold- the-line" spot, has easier loyalty mission (with no option to screw over him, once started). Thane and Jack are pretty much NPCed/out.

Still this whole speculation gives no clue about squadmate comebacks.

Miranda may have a major part on ME3. Doeasn't mean she has to be recruitable.
Anderson, Udina and TIM are more important for the main story then most of the squadmates, and they are not even LIs.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 février 2010 - 10:35 .

[Flamewielder]

It seems obvious to me that none of the characters need to come back as squadmates, but could all return for bit parts in ME3, perhaps even important parts depending on the ME creative team's intended direction for the story arc.



While I personally would love to have some of them return as squadmates, they are more likely to return as NPC's like Liara/Dr Chakwa, either as part of the Normandy crew or as allies in various locations Shepard can visit. If the character's dead, it's simply not there. If the character is alive, they can give out assignments for Shepard's new team resulting in added rewards (guns, powers, allies, humorous conversations, love scenes, etc...). You got all your crewmates through the suicide mission? Good for you: they'll help you out in ME3 whether they's squaddies or not. You start off as a noobie, some of these characters may not be available depending on their importance to the ME story arc.



To me, a character doesn't necessarily need to be a squaddie to be interesting/funny/a love interest. You can create an intricate conversation tree for a non-squaddie as easily as a squaddie.



What WOULD be a put down is a long series of e-mails you cannot reply to... I'd like to see a couple of cut scenes showing Shep spilling drinks with Jacob on the Citadel, Captain Hannah Shepard gently chiding Shep and Ash about fraternization and holding hands while leaning over the galaxy map... Emotions are a big part of the ME experience and the right cut-scene/convo can have a huge impact without requiring our favorite characters to be squaddies.



Give me 12 new squaddies for ME3, the more the merrier! You think Shepard's gonna stop recruiting new talent just because he likes/loves the people he's recruited so far? He's got thousands of angry Reapers to deal with, he's gonna need all the allies he can get...

[crimzontearz]

wow 10 pages

[Walderwhite]

To be honest I'd consider myself ripped off if Bioware pulled the old '12 cameos' move just because everyone (well bar any given 2 and the Shepster I suppose) could die in ME2. Lets be fair about this - if Bioware bring back the 12 (Zaeed and Kasumi? Dlc so dunno... so maybe 10) plus some of the guys from ME1 they can simply not have the characters in the game that died and find proxy ways in which anything significant they would tell you in ME3 could be told another way. Better yet, maybe their absence closes certain doors to you and denies you information. Bioware has always harped on about actions and consequences - well these consequences suit me fine. Got you team killed like a ****wit? Deal with it. This would be almost exactly as easy as creating 12 new people from scratch - easier in some ways. Artwork, animation etc is already pretty much done unless they want to change their clothes or SHOOT OFF HALF THEIR FACE, THANKS SO MUCH BIOWARE. Ahem. Sorry 'bout that.



On another note, maybe they do want Miranda to survive - but that isn't really relevant. They cannot force her on us without contradicting some peoples playthroughs and their own promises of a consistant universe that will continue across all three games. As someone above said - ME3 isn't about the characters and introducing more would detract from the real story now being told - the Reapers. I think they'll stick with what we have, partly because it just makes sense to do so within the confines of the story and partly because the third act is the worst time to start throwing new characters at you. I do think npc's will have larger roles though - Aria being kick ass in the background but not actually a squadmate for example.



Just my 2 creds.