244 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Exactly. People who are guna bother to import their characters are guna have their teams survive. those who dont care to get their team through will just make a new save.
If someone wants to use a save with only two squadmates, then they have to deal with their actions of killing them.

My ME3 import is going to have a large majority of the ME2 team killed on purpose.  I'm more than willing to "deal" with the consequences of killing them, which should have a rather insignificant impact on ME3.

Thats the problem. Bioware is treating death as such a little thing. Death should have real consequences that make players want to avoid it. not the loss of a cameo...

[redguppie]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I sure hope not.  Staying faithful is supposed to have a "payoff" in
ME3.  If they just turn around and let all the cheaters just kiss and
make up in ME3 what was the point?  I hope the "cheaters" are more or
less stuck with the choices they made.  While those who choose to take on a new LI in ME2 deserve a good ending with their new LI those who stay with the ME1 LI's should get something really epic.

And what about all those who didn't get in a relationship with ME1 LI and did in the second. Are theygoing to basically givin the eqivilent of "sucks to be you" because they didn't connect wit hthe first bunch?

[Nozybidaj]

redguppie wrote...


And what about all those who didn't get in a relationship with ME1 LI and did in the second. Are theygoing to basically givin the eqivilent of "sucks to be you" because they didn't connect wit hthe first bunch?

I didn't say their ending should be "sucks to be you", I said it should be good.  Just not to the same scale and scope that the Me1 LI's will have.

[redguppie]

Why should it be worse in scale and scope? Different than those who stayed with there first I would agree, but not to the point were the ending has less of an impact for their characters because they made a game choice which is no better or worse than others.

[Barquiel]

epoch_ wrote...

If you got tali exiled, or sold legion to cerberus, your connection to those two factions are gone. And potentially, your army against the reapers is that much smaller.

Whats so hard about this?

nothing

I don't know if Legion or Tali will be squadmates in ME3 but I don't think they're more important than Miranda, Garrus or Jacob. We won't miss much content in ME3 if they are dead (Wrex in ME2...) or exiled.

[Nozybidaj]

redguppie wrote...

Why should it be worse in scale and scope? Different than those who stayed with there first I would agree, but not to the point were the ending has less of an impact for their characters because they made a game choice which is no better or worse than others.

Take it up with BW not me.  They are the ones that said there should be a "payoff" for staying with your ME1 LI.  If the ME2 LI's get the same treatment as the ME1 LI's what was the point?

[darksider55]

my first play through zaeed and jack died..to me having some members die makes for a better story.i'm just interest in what bioware will do in me3 for dead squad members,will they introduce new characters to fill the spots.Or you carry on in the game without them with a small team..

[Nozybidaj]

Barquiel wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

If you got tali exiled, or sold legion to cerberus, your connection to those two factions are gone. And potentially, your army against the reapers is that much smaller.

Whats so hard about this?

nothing

I don't know if Legion or Tali will be squadmates in ME3 but I don't think they're more important than Miranda, Garrus or Jacob. We won't miss much content in ME3 if they are dead (Wrex in ME2...) or exiled.

Agreed, I don't think whether they are dead or alive will have much of an overall impact on the flow of ME3.  Missing a short reunion and some dialogue would be fine.

[Arelyte]

Vaenier wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Legion and Tali are much more important characters than Miranda.

why?

Tali and legion are big players in the Geth/Quarian war. Their stories have been building in both games and will likely come to frutition in the final segment.

Miranda is just a Cerberus agent who acts like a **** most of the time. I wouldnt mind so much if she wouldnt contradict every choice I made...

Also Miranda is an idiot that forgot her sister is still under TIM's control.

This sounds pretty fanboyish.

[aaniadyen]

Anyone else open this thread hoping to see a link to an article?

[Madecologist]

Shavon wrote...

In addition to Miranda, I also notice it's hard to kill Garrus (yay!). If the Op's logic is true, it's kinda ****ty writing. Obviously, the quarian and the geth will be very important in Me3, so why make Tali and Legion so easy to kill?

Also, Thane is pretty popular, designed specifically for female gamers, so having him easy to kill just breeds more pissed off fans.

I hope Bioware knows what they are doing, but it looks more like they shot themselves in the foot.

You hit it on the nail.

Let me requote: "Obviously, the quarian and the geth will be very important in Me3, so why make Tali and Legion so easy to kill?"

Thank you, someone saw this too. Now I still hold my arguement that Tali and Legion's killablility is a matter of perception and not a fact. But assuming they are more killable, why? Since it seems their factions will have a role in ME3.

The answer is, because of that. Do people realise that the Suicide mission is an open ended outcome? Which means people will live and die from your actions. This is a lot like.. umm.. a table top RPG. If anyone ever played a table top game will realise any good GM (not the bad ones) will have signature or plot critical characters be in harms way often. Their death and life being up to the players. Plotinium tends to be worn by pointless characters in a well ran game (not as much as protection but more of not caring to have them killed). They live via dismissal.

My point here is Tali and Legions fragility (or precieved one, since I do not see them as such) is because of just that. Their role in ME3 even as a cameo will have an impact on your story.

I am even going to say Tali's fraility is to make every Tali fan (a huge fanbase she has) sweat in their seats trying to keep their favourite girl alive. Yes their fraility is not a prophesy of their role in ME3, but a story telling tool to make you grip your seat and be nervous. I know if I was writing a story, I would have Tali in harm's way more often than not if I knew my readers loved her. For those that don't like her, well who cares if she gets plot bullets shot at her head. Killable Tali is to make the Tali fanbase shake and is not a dimissal of her role in the story.

Modifié par Madecologist, 25 février 2010 - 05:03 .

[screwoffreg]

epoch_ wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Yeah, I think people are getting the wrong message from the OP. It is not as if the characters in ME 3 are UNIMPORTANT. You are very likely to miss huge parts of the story if certain characters like Tali and Legion die/are not recruited. Look at the Wrex situation. He isn't "critical" to have alive, but without him a large part of what makes the Krogan homeworld interesting and unique fades away. I also imagine the Krogan interaction in ME 3 will be very different depending on if Wrex lived and Grunt survives as well.

And damnit, there had better be good endings for ALL LI's. I have a feeling Bioware may try to force us back into our ME 1 romances. In some cases, not bad, in others no thanks.

If this is true, then there is no reason not to do the extra bit of voice recording and to give them a skillset. Because that's all it takes. A couple things.

1) ME3 isn't ME2. They can have a load of squad mates that even some people won't see without wasting too much work. Each squad mate isn't going to have multiple missions focued around them. They just need dialogue and a skill set. Voila, you got a squad mate.

2) They aren't going to bring back miranda as a squad mate and not the other love interests. (replace mira with x LI, if you like) If one of them comes back, they are all going to come back. It simply isn't fair to fans of every other love interest that is not included. The ****storm Bioware would have from its fans would be epic.

3) Why should they punish the majority of fans who care enough and decide to save everyone by catering to the experience of the minority of fans who didn't care enough to at least make one save where everyone gets out alive.

It simply wouldn't make any sense.

/rant

Don't disagree with you at all.  I would have a great deal of hope as Bioware has shown they still can put in great effort in squad/team development in their games and yet still give the player the option to be a huge ass and solo the game.  Look at Baldurs Gate II or Dragon Age.  So much dialogue and intrigue related to your party and you can drive them all away if you want.

[redguppie]

Nozybidaj wrote...

redguppie wrote...

Why should it be worse in scale and scope? Different than those who stayed with there first I would agree, but not to the point were the ending has less of an impact for their characters because they made a game choice which is no better or worse than others.

Take it up with BW not me.  They are the ones that said there should be a "payoff" for staying with your ME1 LI.  If the ME2 LI's get the same treatment as the ME1 LI's what was the point?

But that's the thing I'm asking for your opinion as to why you think it should be a lesser scene?  And payoff can be such a huge number of things that without further content the expression itself is meaningless.  It could be as simple as an achievment or changing the nature of your dealings with the character and groups/plots that they represent. Heck maybe cheating has an affect in the normandy itself in dealing with the crew.

[screwoffreg]

As for you Tali/Legion fans, bear in mind that ME 3 will supposedly have dire consequences for certain decisions.



It is implied that if Tali dies on your quest the Quarians will react very negatively to that, even if she is exiled (more so if she is not, of course). Legion's "collective" might see his loss as a connection to organic species, making utilizing the Geth for your puposes in ME 3 that much harder. I hope these types of REAL consequences are put in place and Tali, Legion and others aren't just sidelined to NPC roles any maybe a cute reunion at the end.

[JMKnave]

I believe any char that is an LI will be back in ME3. Perhaps only in a cameo like the ME1 LIs but BW has already stated that your LIs will play some role in ME3. We don't know whether that's a big role or small role yet.

The chance of people dying was put into the game for dramatic effect. To make you want to replay it over and over again until you made sure the squadmates you liked survived. Tali for instance. Yes she will die if you didn't pick up the upgrades but who really would settle for that if it happened? Especially if she was an LI in their playthrough. There's even an achievement for this: "No One Left Behind" which alone is a big hint.

The reason Miranda is so hard to kill is because she has lines in the cutscene before the end battle so they had to make sure she survived at least up until that point.

The only thing that we are certain of is any content in a DLC pack. It is very unlikely that any character introduced via DLC will make it to ME3.

That being said, it is very likely that all non-DLC squadmates will be back for ME3. The reapers at the end are shown to be very close to the milky way (in appearance at least). If this is the case then the start of ME3 will take place only a very short time after the events in ME2. This solves the problem of reintroducing Shepard as well since they wont have to kill him off and rebuild him again or some other story close to that. You'll just continue from where you left off.

Modifié par JMKnave, 25 février 2010 - 05:10 .

[epoch_]

redguppie wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

redguppie wrote...

Why should it be worse in scale and scope? Different than those who stayed with there first I would agree, but not to the point were the ending has less of an impact for their characters because they made a game choice which is no better or worse than others.

Take it up with BW not me.  They are the ones that said there should be a "payoff" for staying with your ME1 LI.  If the ME2 LI's get the same treatment as the ME1 LI's what was the point?

But that's the thing I'm asking for your opinion as to why you think it should be a lesser scene?  And payoff can be such a huge number of things that without further content the expression itself is meaningless.  It could be as simple as an achievment or changing the nature of your dealings with the character and groups/plots that they represent. Heck maybe cheating has an affect in the normandy itself in dealing with the crew.

I think he's (or bioware) is trying to say that the feeling you'll get, if you liked the me1 LIs, might overall feel better because you went through the rough patch in me2.

I don't think I said it right, but you might get the point. He isn't saying the me2 love interests conclusions won't be awesome in their own right, they just didn't go through that hard time the others did.

[screwoffreg]

Yeah, I really agree with most posts in this thread. If Bioware reads these things and cares, I REALLY hope they focus on the team we have now rather than try to shoehorn new characters in.



With Zaeed and Kasumi, the team of potential squadmates is already HUGE. If we get Ashley/Kaiden and Liara back, that is even a larger team (assuming we lose Samara, Zaeed and Jack it evens out though). I would much prefer stronger development for what we have and keeping most, if not all of the crew that doesn't have story reasons (like Samara, again) to leave than have "Zordon, Lord Ranger of Space" or other random ass characters. We are coming to the point where we want resolutions for our characters, not new faces...

[Zulu_DFA]

Vaenier wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Legion and Tali are much more important characters than Miranda.

why?

Tali and legion are big players in the Geth/Quarian war. Their stories have been building in both games and will likely come to frutition in the final segment.

Miranda is just a Cerberus agent who acts like a **** most of the time. I wouldnt mind so much if she wouldnt contradict every choice I made...

Also Miranda is an idiot that forgot her sister is still under TIM's control.

Everything is under TIM's control.

Miranda is introduced in ME:Galaxy and has a "cameo" in ME:Redemption. She is bound to be in ME3. If she is killed, she leaves the biggest hole in ME3 story of all the expendables.

Legion can be easily brought back even if something wrong happens in ME2. New harware platform + latest back-up. Meet Legion v2.0.

In fact, most characters will make it into ME3. Even "squishy" Mordin, if survived "suicide mission". Only not all of them will be squadmates. I actually wonder people want to see them only as squadmates. What are they, Shepard's pets? Doggies and kitties?

Garrus is an OK guy, even more so, my favorite squadmate from ME1 (only next to Kaidan, who is not around after Virmire anyway). But it got quite depressing to hear every time I checked on him that he "is in the middle of some calibrations". And where is the character continuity? I mean the resul of how you treated him in ME1? No result at all. Either way he is the same merc-hating badass, that turns out a spineless dwadle to accept any outcome of his loyalty mission.
Wouldn't it be better if he replaced of as C-Sec captain? And had alternate "character-developed" versions of himself: running everything by the book, if "paragonized" in ME1, or ruthless thug if "renegaded" in ME1? And possibly affected the Thane's loyalty mission outcome? That would have been a hell of an impact, choices matter and stuff. As it if, there is no character development.
Just a simple fan service: you wanted Garrus? Here he is. Wanna scrog him? Sorry, FemShep only!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 février 2010 - 05:19 .

[screwoffreg]

Not Shepard's "pets" buddy, but it makes even less sense to say you are recruiting the baddest ass team in the Galaxy and then let them go home when the BIGGEST threat to sentient life is around the corner. What next, recruit the "best second and third rate team in the galaxy" for the final battle with the Reapers?

Modifié par screwoffreg, 25 février 2010 - 05:14 .

[Reptilian Rob]

I always kill off Jack, she's a downer.

[epoch_]

Why does everyone assume that for me3, a killable character automatically means they are banished to cameo land? Just because me2 was setup in a way that creating these enormous recruitment/loyalty missions for characters that may or may not be alive, isn't a good argument or justification for how they will handle it in me3.



If you think its too hard to writing/record some extra dialogue, which is all it takes really for a squad mate, then you are really underestimating BioWare.

[Lvl20DM]

Back before we moved over the social site, the love interest plot was directly addressed by one of the devs. He likened the "arc" of the love interests as somewhat similar to the Indiana Jones movies. In Raiders we Marion as the love interest. The next 2 movies (one of which is a prequel) have different LI's. But in Kingdom we have the return of Marion. So pursuing another romance in ME 2 will complicate things in the next game. It certainly strongly implies that Liara and Ashley/Kaiden will return as squad-mates in ME 3.

[redguppie]

Don't see how they could leave any out without a excellent reason. They have built up a heck of a following from the last two games and it will be a heck of a lot more garanteed sales than any they could get from "new gamers, plus getting them involved in the characters already developed will encourage them to buy the previous two. Were as scraping the entire cast at the end would result in a loss of sales simply from the fact that alot of people will be willing to wait to buy used instead of rushing to buy new.



I know in my case I bought the 1st one used but the story was so good that I couldn't wait to see the next chapter. With the second the story didn't capture my attention as much as the characters did and seeing how their story ends is the main draw for purchasing ME3 as soon as it comes out. Without that connection the enthusiasm goes away and waiting 6 months to a year to get it cheap isn't such a hardship anymore.

[erilben]

epoch_ wrote...

Why does everyone assume that for me3, a killable character automatically means they are banished to cameo land? Just because me2 was setup in a way that creating these enormous recruitment/loyalty missions for characters that may or may not be alive, isn't a good argument or justification for how they will handle it in me3.

If you think its too hard to writing/record some extra dialogue, which is all it takes really for a squad mate, then you are really underestimating BioWare.

David Gaider says the party members are of the most expensive content in the game. That's why they don't want to bring back possibly dead ones.