244 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

I never said they did, all I was responding too was the fact that the 'possible dead ones' did return.

Yes, they return.

Alistair and Loghain get cameos in DA: Awakenings as well.
Who returns as a companion? Oghren: It is hard to kill him.

I think the OP could be right.

[epoch_]

boardnfool86 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

That is wierd, because Legion and Tali are much more important characters than Miranda.
I disagree with your argument.

disagree, bioware is uncertain what role legion will play... and miranda is part of the cover art...

anyways, Miranda died on my first playthrough during the hold the line part, only her and zaheed weren't loyal

so I don't think she's hard to kill of, it happened to me

I don't see why miranda is so important after me2. I've cut ties with cerberus. side note: would like to repaint the normandy.

She isn't really hard to kill, just tell her to head off into the vents. lol.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

epoch_ wrote...

boardnfool86 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

That is wierd, because Legion and Tali are much more important characters than Miranda.
I disagree with your argument.

disagree, bioware is uncertain what role legion will play... and miranda is part of the cover art...

anyways, Miranda died on my first playthrough during the hold the line part, only her and zaheed weren't loyal

so I don't think she's hard to kill of, it happened to me

I don't see why miranda is so important after me2. I've cut ties with cerberus. side note: would like to repaint the normandy.

She isn't really hard to kill, just tell her to head off into the vents. lol.

Except she can't be sent into the vents.

[epoch_]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

boardnfool86 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

That is wierd, because Legion and Tali are much more important characters than Miranda.
I disagree with your argument.

disagree, bioware is uncertain what role legion will play... and miranda is part of the cover art...

anyways, Miranda died on my first playthrough during the hold the line part, only her and zaheed weren't loyal

so I don't think she's hard to kill of, it happened to me

I don't see why miranda is so important after me2. I've cut ties with cerberus. side note: would like to repaint the normandy.

She isn't really hard to kill, just tell her to head off into the vents. lol.

Except she can't be sent into the vents.

oh really? Thats odd, considering she's like a sentinel.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

epoch_ wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

boardnfool86 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

That is wierd, because Legion and Tali are much more important characters than Miranda.
I disagree with your argument.

disagree, bioware is uncertain what role legion will play... and miranda is part of the cover art...

anyways, Miranda died on my first playthrough during the hold the line part, only her and zaheed weren't loyal

so I don't think she's hard to kill of, it happened to me

I don't see why miranda is so important after me2. I've cut ties with cerberus. side note: would like to repaint the normandy.

She isn't really hard to kill, just tell her to head off into the vents. lol.

Except she can't be sent into the vents.

oh really? Thats odd, considering she's like a sentinel.

Whilst I agree with your logic, it is the truth, which is funny as she would be even better than 2 of the ones who can be sent in there (Thane and Jacob). Yet this just further proves that for anyone that did keep her alive, she is most likely to return as a squadmate in ME3.

I actually think, all the LIs will return and as such believe we'll get a DLC or expansion to explain how that can be. My reason for believing this is how the canon default shep (brand new ME2 shep) has it that if maleshep ash survives, if femshep kaidan survives. Thus making them possible LIs for them in ME3.

[Zulu_DFA]

epoch_ wrote...

She isn't really hard to kill, just tell her to head off into the vents. lol.

You can't do that.

[Nozybidaj]

redguppie wrote...
But that's the thing I'm asking for your opinion as to why you think it should be a lesser scene? 

Why do I personally think it should be a lesser scene? 

Because these characters already had their "character focused" chapter.  Folks who are fans of the ME1 LI's never got that and now if there is going to be any, it is being sandwhiched inbetween what should be the main focus of the last game in wrapping up the major plot line.  

It was BW's choice not to give these characters a second chapter and instead try and roll all of their "character development" into the third chapter.  All these (potentially) dead characters had their moment and now it is time for the ones that were passed over in ME2 to have theirs.

Is it horrible story telling?  Yes.  Is it the way things should have been done? No.  It is what it is at this point though.  That is my "personal" feelings on why it should be that way.

--------

Now, why do I think it should be a lesser scene based on BW's reasoning for the way things are?

Because if the ME2 LI's get the same treatment, the same focus, and the same level of content in ME3 as the ME1 LI's then basically what you are saying is that BW lied to us about why they removed the ME1 LI's from ME2.  This may or may not actually be the case, but if their isn't a payoff, if the ME1 LI's do not recieve a much more prominent role in ME3 than the ME2 cast then everything BW said prior to release about "why" these characters were written out of ME2 is a lie.

I'd like to see BW make good on those words instead of coming to the conclusion that they fed us a bunch of lies and half truths.

[Skurrow]

Hmm I think virtually all past characters will make it into ME3 as team mates, or at least all the LIs. I think most of my reasons have already been covered in various posts, but here they are anyway

1) Bioware are going to want this game to be huge, surpassing the fans' already impressive expectations. Disgarding old characters for new is going to make that much harder to do because they'll need to come up with yet another group of characters players will except during the game and still have the game feel like a continuation from previous games.

2) ME3 is the last Chapter in Shepherd's story. His old allies should be there to see him off.

3) As I recall, Bioware have stated that having an LI in both ME1 and ME2 will cause problems in ME3. I expect this will be more than just a personal message to you. Especially since LI1 and LI2 will probably have to meet to realise that you've been intimate with both of them.

4) Your teammates from ME2 supposedly represent the elite - the best the galaxy has to offer. If they leave, does that mean Shep will be stuck with whatever's left for a showdown with the Reapers?

5) The other characters all know the Reapers are inbound and are in the minority few that actually believe in them. They know the galaxy is doomed if they don't help. Admittedly some could be useful 'pulling a Wrex,' but most don't have that option open to them.

6) Even if everyone dies at the end of ME2, there is no reason for Bioware to create new teammates to replace them , as there will still be two available from ME1. Don't like them, either? Well that's your fault for killing off the only other people in the Galaxy with enough skill to help you!

7) In the ME2 epilogue, characters are still on the Normandy as Shepherd prepares to face the Reapers (yes I know he's not actually looking at the Reapers and that its all symbolic, but the fact that the squaddies remain after the mission you hired them for seems very significant to me).

Modifié par Skurrow, 25 février 2010 - 06:12 .

[SnakieHelah]

Vaenier wrote...

That is wierd, because Legion and Tali are much more important characters than Miranda.
I disagree with your argument.

Okay, Legion maybe. Tali not really? Please explain how is Tali Important in your opinion, and they said themselves non-officially that legion is the kind of guy that would return.

[epoch_]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

She isn't really hard to kill, just tell her to head off into the vents. lol.

You can't do that.

I'm about as indifferent towards her character as you can possibly be, so I didn't know this before this thread. Doesn't surprise me that they want such a big name voice back for their third game though. Hopefully they can fix the shape of her head a bit.

[SnakieHelah]

epoch_ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

She isn't really hard to kill, just tell her to head off into the vents. lol.

You can't do that.

I'm about as indifferent towards her character as you can possibly be, so I didn't know this before this thread. Doesn't surprise me that they want such a big name voice back for their third game though. Hopefully they can fix the shape of her head a bit.

You do realise she IS moddeled by a real life face?

[Nozybidaj]

Shavon wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

My Miri better be with me in ME3

Awww,!!

See, this is why at the VERY least, a Shepard's li should be with him/her to the end. as a decent squadmate.  **** cameos!

I would have completely agreed with you prior to ME2.

[epoch_]

SnakieHelah wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

She isn't really hard to kill, just tell her to head off into the vents. lol.

You can't do that.

I'm about as indifferent towards her character as you can possibly be, so I didn't know this before this thread. Doesn't surprise me that they want such a big name voice back for their third game though. Hopefully they can fix the shape of her head a bit.

You do realise she IS moddeled by a real life face?

aye, and she is hot as hell.

[SnakieHelah]

epoch_ wrote...

SnakieHelah wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

She isn't really hard to kill, just tell her to head off into the vents. lol.

You can't do that.

I'm about as indifferent towards her character as you can possibly be, so I didn't know this before this thread. Doesn't surprise me that they want such a big name voice back for their third game though. Hopefully they can fix the shape of her head a bit.

You do realise she IS moddeled by a real life face?

aye, and she is hot as hell.

Then what is wrong with hear head shape?

[epoch_]

Could never put my finger on it. Something just got lost in the process.

[SmokePants]

Barquiel wrote...

Yes, they return.

Alistair and Loghain get cameos in DA: Awakenings as well.
Who returns as a companion? Oghren: It is hard to kill him.

I think the OP could be right.

Oghren isn't "hard to kill"; he's the only companion character who you cannot avoid picking up and who CANNOT be killed. So, of course they can bring him back. He's basically Tali in ME1.

Miranda can be killed. Like Leliana could be killed. Like Zevran could be killed. Like Wynne could be killed. Like Shale could be killed. Like Alistair could be killed. Like Loghain could be killed. Like Sten could be killed (via not releasing from cage before Lothering gets destroyed.) Now which of these DA characters made it through as companion characters in Awakening? Uh, none.

It is completely irrelevant how obscure any of those deaths may have been. The fact that they exist as a possibility is a binary killswitch. It's over. Done. At least as companions.

Am I underestimating Bioware? No. Just like I wouldn't be underestimating a contractor if I said he couldn't build a mansion out of wet spaghetti.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Whilst I agree with your logic, it is the truth, which is funny as she would be even better than 2 of the ones who can be sent in there (Thane and Jacob). Yet this just further proves that for anyone that did keep her alive, she is most likely to return as a squadmate in ME3.

Yet this just further proves that for anyone that did keep her alive, she is most likely to return as a squadmate in ME3.

Please, no more high heels on the battlefield and semi-bare breasts in cold vacuum! Please, BioWare, pretty pleeeeezzz [Cat's eyes from Shrek2 + Lilu's voice from 5th element, whe she falls into Corban Dallas's cab]!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 février 2010 - 06:32 .

[Nozybidaj]

Shavon wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Shavon wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

My Miri better be with me in ME3

Awww,!!

See, this is why at the VERY least, a Shepard's li should be with him/her to the end. as a decent squadmate.  **** cameos!

I would have completely agreed with you prior to ME2.

Oh, what's your opinion now?  Just curious.  Many people in the Ash/Kai/Liara group want the ME2 people completely done away with.  Others see them as better.  I want them all

I think based on what has been said about Liara and Kaidan/Ash, they'll be squadmates for sure in Me3

I hate to call for anyone who likes the ME2 cast to get the same treatment as we did, it sucks I know that.

it is probably why you see people campaigning so hard for it NOT to happen to their favortie character.  It was horrible story telling and the fanbase knows it, hence all the "bring back so and so" threads because people are afraid it is going to happen to them in  ME3.

That said, if returning them is going to take time and development resources away from giving the old characters the story they deserve I am all for sticking the ME2 cast in cameo roles.

[screwoffreg]

Awakenings is different because it is an EXPANSION not a full game. David Gaider basically said a lot of cameos and other interaction were cut because of time and cost contraints, Also bear in mind while Dragon Age allows everyone to be killed and driven off, to be frank the game sucks hard if there is no character interaction as that is the bread and butter of Bioware games. I wouldn't say any character is "replaceable" or just throwaway.

Also ME 2 will be very financially succesful, so they have all the incentive in the world to "go all out" for ME 3.  I would imagine they aren't saying "can we afford to include Tali?" rather "Can we afford not to?"

Modifié par screwoffreg, 25 février 2010 - 06:39 .

[Adynata]

Miranda is one of only a few characters who have a a "spat" that requires you to make a decision between them if you don't have enough paragon/renegade points. I gladly choose Jack everytime since Miranda annoys me. So even though I do her loyalty quest she still ends up dead in the end. If you think of it this way, anyone who does Jack's and Miranda's loyalty missions before building up enough P/R points will have to go on to ME3 with one or the other.

[TyDurden13]

SmokePants wrote...
Oghren isn't "hard to kill"; he's the only companion character who you cannot avoid picking up and who CANNOT be killed. So, of course they can bring him back. He's basically Tali in ME1.

Wrong.  If Oghren's approval drops low enough, he will challenge your leadership.  At that point, you can either let him leave the group or kill him.

ETA: Reference.  That pretty much puts an end to your particular argument.

Modifié par TyDurden13, 25 février 2010 - 06:53 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Nozybidaj wrote...

That said, if returning them is going to take time and development resources away from giving the old characters the story they deserve I am all for sticking the ME2 cast in cameo roles.

This is good point. Liara and Ashley/Kaidan were there first, so it's their right (so to say) to get the most possible (budgetwise) attention. Garrus and Tali got their attention in ME2, Wrex's fans are mostly happy about his cameo.

So any ME2 squadmate should better have a very good reason to apply for full-time job in ME3.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 février 2010 - 06:43 .

[redguppie]

Nozybidaj wrote...

redguppie wrote...
But that's the thing I'm asking for your opinion as to why you think it should be a lesser scene? 

Why do I personally think it should be a lesser scene? 

Because these characters already had their "character focused" chapter.  Folks who are fans of the ME1 LI's never got that and now if there is going to be any, it is being sandwhiched inbetween what should be the main focus of the last game in wrapping up the major plot line.  

It was BW's choice not to give these characters a second chapter and instead try and roll all of their "character development" into the third chapter.  All these (potentially) dead characters had their moment and now it is time for the ones that were passed over in ME2 to have theirs.

Is it horrible story telling?  Yes.  Is it the way things should have been done? No.  It is what it is at this point though.  That is my "personal" feelings on why it should be that way.

--------

Now, why do I think it should be a lesser scene based on BW's reasoning for the way things are?

Because if the ME2 LI's get the same treatment, the same focus, and the same level of content in ME3 as the ME1 LI's then basically what you are saying is that BW lied to us about why they removed the ME1 LI's from ME2.  This may or may not actually be the case, but if their isn't a payoff, if the ME1 LI's do not recieve a much more prominent role in ME3 than the ME2 cast then everything BW said prior to release about "why" these characters were written out of ME2 is a lie.

I'd like to see BW make good on those words instead of coming to the conclusion that they fed us a bunch of lies and half truths.

But we're talking about the ending scene, not story focus. how much time and effort a character gets during the romantic subplot has very little to do with how much they get with the main story line.  I personnally think that during the third we will see in depth what those 2 from ME1 were up to and why it caused such a change in them.  And during that it helps lead us to ways of defeating the reapers .  However,  when you come to the romance plot it is a much smaller role in the game and there is no greater or lesser character in that regard.  Each one has a large fan following and each has those who will buy the game solely for that reason.  They each have as much invested in the story each have the same possiblity of cheating on there LI. 

I'll give you an example:  Say someone started the series in the 2nd game and didn't bother with the first.  Now in the second they romance Jack,  got to know the character and enjoyed playing it and were looking forward to seeing how the ending was. The third comes out and they have the option of leaving Jack to romance Liara and they avoid it, somthing I guess you have done for the second game.  Now they have spent the same amount of money on the game, have stayed faithful to their original LI, and are just as commited to jack as you are to Liara, why should the ending scene for there romance be less dramatic and touching than yours.