244 réponses à ce sujet

[screwoffreg]

People are really playing up the budget aspect like "If we have Liara, we must lose ____". They already had a big team in ME 2, if we assume a few leave and the ME 1 characters take their place, as seems likely, the budget shouldn't be blown out of the water by any means. I still hope we have MORE dialogue, as this is the last game, and I think both Bioware and EA realize this one is going to be BIG, so they will have more room to manuever moneywise and creatively (hopefully).

[Zulu_DFA]

Adynata wrote...

Miranda is one of only a few characters who have a a "spat" that requires you to make a decision between them if you don't have enough paragon/renegade points. I gladly choose Jack everytime since Miranda annoys me. So even though I do her loyalty quest she still ends up dead in the end. If you think of it this way, anyone who does Jack's and Miranda's loyalty missions before building up enough P/R points will have to go on to ME3 with one or the other.

What does it prove? You won't see Miranda in ME3. But that does not strip her of the hardest to kill squadmate on the suicide mission. Any other squadmate can before door #2 even if loyal. Miranda can't, even if unloyal. If loyal, Miranda cannot die at all. If unloyal she can die only taken to the final boss plus a few eventualities at the "hold-the-line" spot.

[redguppie]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

That said, if returning them is going to take time and development resources away from giving the old characters the story they deserve I am all for sticking the ME2 cast in cameo roles.

This is good point. Liara and Ashley/Kaidan were there first, so it's their right (so to say) to get the most possible (budgetwise) attention. Garrus and Tali got their attention in ME2, Wrex's fans are mostly happy about his cameo.

So any ME2 squadmate should better have a very good reason to apply for full-time job in ME3.

They do if they're alive then they are still on the ship.  What are they gonna say to get them off"sorry they left there oven on and had to rush home, but they said good luck with the whole reaper thing"(any excuse besides death is prettymuch that statement with different wording).  Most likely from the second will have much less dialog than the 2 from ME1 because it should be a plot driven story instead of a character driven story.  Liara and the Virmire's plot development and expansion will most likely come during the course of the plot because whatever they have been up to would directly effect the main plot itself.  Kinda like a loyalty quest with relevence to the story.  Like say you found out the SB is a reaper construct they use to gather info and seed discord among the races and peoples to make it hard for one race to rise and out pace the others.   And while trying to distroy the Broker Laira's history with him slowly unfolds.

[Nozybidaj]

redguppie wrote...

I'll give you an example:  Say someone started the series in the 2nd game and didn't bother with the first.  Now in the second they romance Jack,  got to know the character and enjoyed playing it and were looking forward to seeing how the ending was. The third comes out and they have the option of leaving Jack to romance Liara and they avoid it, somthing I guess you have done for the second game.  Now they have spent the same amount of money on the game, have stayed faithful to their original LI, and are just as commited to jack as you are to Liara, why should the ending scene for there romance be less dramatic and touching than yours.
 

No they haven't actually since I played through three games to get to this point, once of which had absolutely no impact on my Shepard's story, while they have only played two games and had no interruption in their story.  Your example was clearly trying to draw me into a petty "i paid more money than they did" response, so I'll go ahead and give it to you, I paid for three games while they paid for two.

Now, I try not to be that petty so I'll go back to what BW said, that someone who stayed "faithful" through ME2, that is Shepard showed such a deep emotional attachment to his LI from ME1 that even having characters in ME2 throw themselves at his feet while the ME1 LI was inappropriately written out of the story wasn't enough to entice him, then their romance should carry with it a much deeper and emotional story through ME3.  Personally, aside from Tali and maybe Thane, the rest of the ME2 romances were more or less just one night stands anyway.  Sex in the engine room?  Really?  Reach and flexibility?  Really?  If this is just about sex why didn't you just ****ing say so?  Really?

I think those who loved ME1 and were able to put up with ME2 enough to still be interested in ME3 enough to buy it should be rewarded.

[screwoffreg]

I hope Bioware doesn't cater to "new" gamers for ME 3. If you jump in at the ending of a stated TRILOGY and expect to be brought up to speed and babied, you are just dumb. It's like watching Return of the King, or reading the book, without viewing any of the previous works and complaining "Who the hell is this Frodo?" and that you can't understand the story.

[TyDurden13]

Adynata wrote...

Miranda is one of only a few characters who have a a "spat" that requires you to make a decision between them if you don't have enough paragon/renegade points. I gladly choose Jack everytime since Miranda annoys me. So even though I do her loyalty quest she still ends up dead in the end. If you think of it this way, anyone who does Jack's and Miranda's loyalty missions before building up enough P/R points will have to go on to ME3 with one or the other.

You're missing the point of the thread.  Even when she's disloyal, she's still notoriously hard to kill.  If she is loyal, she's basically invincible.

ETA: Or yeah, I could have just let Zulu handle that one.

Modifié par TyDurden13, 25 février 2010 - 07:03 .

[redguppie]

Actually I wasn't trying to draw you into a you payed more money arguement. I was saying that you both payed the same for the third game that is why I stated game, not games. All I was trying to say is that you both have the same emotional involvement to your characters and you both would rightfully ask that your character not be snubbed simply to placate someone else desire.

Edit. I agree about catering to a new group for the third for the simple reason that there will be no engine changes and any gameplay changes will be minor tweaks at best.  But the second was such a different beast from the first that alot of people who couldnt get into the first will end up enjoying the second.  And the way the story plays out it isn't hard to get caught up in ME2, not enough story progression to lose anyone.

Modifié par redguppie, 25 février 2010 - 07:08 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

That said, if returning them is going to take time and development resources away from giving the old characters the story they deserve I am all for sticking the ME2 cast in cameo roles.

This is good point. Liara and Ashley/Kaidan were there first, so it's their right (so to say) to get the most possible (budgetwise) attention. Garrus and Tali got their attention in ME2, Wrex's fans are mostly happy about his cameo.

So any ME2 squadmate should better have a very good reason to apply for full-time job in ME3.

[sarcasm]Right because everyone who played ME used just Ash/Kaidan and Liara in their team....[/sarcasm]

Liara could be left till after Virmire before being recruited and for some people was just as much a cameo in ME as she was in ME2. So why should they be 'forced' this time to have her in their squad if they don't want her?

Am not anti-Liara, my main Paragon Shep that I have taken through both games is sticking with her. But my Renegade FemShep, she did the aforementioned leaving her till after Virmire and other than speaking to her about Thane, had nothing else to do with her in ME2.

The way I see it, a simple way they can fix it for everyone is that they can choose (within reason) who to have in their squad in ME3. that way everybody is happy.

They have proven they can do it with ME2 with the fact you didn't need to recruit Grunt (left in lifepod), Thane, Tali, Samara or Legion (sent to cerberus or not activated). So it won't be hard for them to setup a similar premise in ME3. That way Shepherd can have the team he/she wants out of the potential squadmate choices.

Also to go back to your point, what 'very good reason' other than being a potential LI do Ashley, Kaidan and Liara have over the ME2 people to apply for full-time members of Shepherd's squad?

[Sereaph502]

All I see here is "I want X squadmember in ME3 but throw everyone else away, because I'M the only one that matters!"



Heres the funny thing...In the seeker swarm segment, select anyone but jack or samara to be the barrier user. Put Miranda on squad member slot #2



Oops. She died. There goes any hope that she's going to be in ME3 by your own logic.



Love how that works out.

[Nozybidaj]

redguppie wrote...

Actually I wasn't trying to draw you into a you payed more money arguement. I was saying that you both payed the same for the third game that is why I stated game, not games. All I was trying to say is that you both have the same emotional involvement to your characters and you both would rightfully ask that your character not be snubbed simply to placate someone else desire.

If that isn't exactly what had already happened in ME2 I would agree with you. 

I don't like the fact that anyone should have to be snubbed in ME3, and if they had simply included the characters in ME2 that made sense (like, oh I don't know, already established characters in the trilogy) then there wouldn't be any reason to.  

That said, if developing these characters in ME3 beyond any sort of cameo role takes away from developing the characters that were left out of ME2 then I am all for them having as small a role as possible.

[Madecologist]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

[sarcasm]Right because everyone who played ME used just Ash/Kaidan and Liara in their team....[/sarcasm]

That made me laugh only because I always used Wrex, Garrus, and Tali. Though Ashely did see a little more use, Kaiden and Liara were sheleved every single time. I only used them once, together to unlock the achievement. Actually Tali and Garrus were probably the top two condidates. Many playthroughs use them. I guess it is my fault they came back in ME2. Bioware must have used my profile as statistic. . Funny thing, I really did not care about them in ME1. I just liked what they had as abilities for me to use.

[tropicalwave]

Just send her down the tube if you want her to die. It isn't that hard. Wait did someone else already say that?

[screwoffreg]

If Bioware listened to fan feedback and added Tali as a romance due to such, then with the current reaction by her fans, she might as well be the main character in ME 3, lol.

[Barquiel]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Also to go back to your point, what 'very good reason' other than being a potential LI do Ashley, Kaidan and Liara have over the ME2 people to apply for full-time members of Shepherd's squad?

They were sidelined in ME2 for something important in ME3 (if we believe Casey Hudson)

[redguppie]

Ahh but anyone with significant development in ME2 is potentially dead and if they were to have a dramatic impact in the third then they couldn't have a large part with your team. At best they could have a couple side quests and some dialog. Could it have been more? possibly, but it is impossible to say exactly without knowing how the story is going to go. Hell for all we know they kept it short so if the release a DLC side mission for it everyone will rush to buy it.

[Zulu_DFA]

redguppie wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

That said, if returning them is going to take time and development resources away from giving the old characters the story they deserve I am all for sticking the ME2 cast in cameo roles.

This is good point. Liara and Ashley/Kaidan were there first, so it's their right (so to say) to get the most possible (budgetwise) attention. Garrus and Tali got their attention in ME2, Wrex's fans are mostly happy about his cameo.

So any ME2 squadmate should better have a very good reason to apply for full-time job in ME3.

They do if they're alive then they are still on the ship.  What are they gonna say to get them off"sorry they left there oven on and had to rush home, but they said good luck with the whole reaper thing"(any excuse besides death is prettymuch that statement with different wording).  Most likely from the second will have much less dialog than the 2 from ME1 because it should be a plot driven story instead of a character driven story.  Liara and the Virmire's plot development and expansion will most likely come during the course of the plot because whatever they have been up to would directly effect the main plot itself.  Kinda like a loyalty quest with relevence to the story.  Like say you found out the SB is a reaper construct they use to gather info and seed discord among the races and peoples to make it hard for one race to rise and out pace the others.   And while trying to distroy the Broker Laira's history with him slowly unfolds.

First of all, if you are staying with Cerberus, nobody of your squadmates except Miranda and Jacob will be happy about that. If you are leaving Cerberus, YOU have no reason to stay on THEIR ship, unless you plan to steal her. Hell, TIM never even said you don't have to PAY him for healthcare services, in case you want to quit. Then, if you do hijack the Normandy, expect trouble. TIM will clearly have to find someone else to fight the Reapers. And Cerberus has very long hands. Even so, you spend too much time in the Terminus Systems, not to raise concerns about your loyalties to the Council, especially to the Turian part of it. And faking your own death just to spend 2+ years AWOL hanging around places like Afterlife and Eternity is against Alliance military regulations. So expect any kind of an opening plot twist in Mass Effect 3.

Nice point about the nature of the Shadow Broker. I have long been thinking that too. But something tells me it's going to be resolved in DLCs prior to ME3 release.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 février 2010 - 07:19 .

[jtav]

Sereaph502 wrote...

All I see here is "I want X squadmember in ME3 but throw everyone else away, because I'M the only one that matters!"

Heres the funny thing...In the seeker swarm segment, select anyone but jack or samara to be the barrier user. Put Miranda on squad member slot #2

Oops. She died. There goes any hope that she's going to be in ME3 by your own logic.

Love how that works out.

Except, as already documented, she doesn't unless the game glitches out.

[screwoffreg]

I kind of feel like the Shadow Broker WILL be sort of loyalty quest in regards to Liara, as someone mentioned. If we assume the Broker isn't so blatantly a bad guy as if he were a Reaper, we might see a situation where the Shadow Broker tries to come to terms with Shepard and offer him information about the Reapers plans, dark energy, or something critical. This would require convincing Liara to give up her quest to destroy him and potentially make her tremendously angry at Shepard...

[redguppie]

Yea but they all joined your crew while you were working for Cerberus and many of them had a good reason to hate Cerberus . They might not like the decision but they are loyal to you and understand you are the best hope right now.


Except Samara, she might try to kill you

And of course I'm stealing the ship, if he didn't want me to take it he shouldn't have given me the keys

Modifié par redguppie, 25 février 2010 - 07:28 .

[screwoffreg]

redguppie wrote...

Yea but they all joined your crew while you were working for Cerberus and many of them had a good reason to hate Cerberus . They might not like the decision but they are loyal to you and understand you are the best hope right now.


Except Samara, she might try to kill you

Liara's loyalty is not so clear anymore (I assume you were responding to me).  She is also VERY dedicated, almost consumed, by her desire to destroy the Broker.   Letting him/it/her live might well destroy her relationship with Shepard or reignite it.  Maybe she uses her Asari charms to get Shepard to come around...who knows really.

[BattleVisor]

Thats a shame, cause Miranda is such a **** in silly high heels.

[redguppie]

screwoffreg wrote...

redguppie wrote...

Yea but they all joined your crew while you were working for Cerberus and many of them had a good reason to hate Cerberus . They might not like the decision but they are loyal to you and understand you are the best hope right now.


Except Samara, she might try to kill you

Liara's loyalty is not so clear anymore (I assume you were responding to me).  She is also VERY dedicated, almost consumed, by her desire to destroy the Broker.   Letting him/it/her live might well destroy her relationship with Shepard or reignite it.  Maybe she uses her Asari charms to get Shepard to come around...who knows really.

Actually it was to the other TIM avatar but I like your idea and it would be a good twist to the story.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Barquiel wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Also to go back to your point, what 'very good reason' other than being a potential LI do Ashley, Kaidan and Liara have over the ME2 people to apply for full-time members of Shepherd's squad?

They were sidelined in ME2 for something important in ME3 (if we believe Casey Hudson)

I personally think that was just for the LI situation.

Any 'New' ME2 Sheps have Ash surviving Virmire for MaleShep and Kaidan surviving Virmire for FemShep. Personally I think that sticks out like a big point to indicate that ME2 imports (as well as 'New' ME3 Sheps) will be able to LI them in ME3 if they wanted. I would hasten to guess that the canon for 'New' ME3 Sheps will also have the ME2 LIs survive the suicide mission.

@Screwoffreg
Regarding the ShadowBroker, one key thing which I believe is one of the 'flags' that was carried over in ME saves was whether you gave him the info on Cerberus or not. I imagine that this will play a part in ME3 and could very well be the catalyst of getting the information from him or not. Be interesting to see what the 'default' canon is on that.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 25 février 2010 - 07:36 .

[screwoffreg]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Also to go back to your point, what 'very good reason' other than being a potential LI do Ashley, Kaidan and Liara have over the ME2 people to apply for full-time members of Shepherd's squad?

They were sidelined in ME2 for something important in ME3 (if we believe Casey Hudson)

I personally think that was just for the LI situation.

Any 'New' ME2 Sheps have Ash surviving Virmire for MaleShep and Kaidan surviving Virmire for FemShep. Personally I think that sticks out like a big point to indicate that ME2 imports (as well as 'New' ME3 Sheps) will be able to LI them in ME3 if they wanted. I would hasten to guess that the canon for 'New' ME3 Sheps will also have the ME2 LIs survive the suicide mission.

@Screwoffreg
Regarding the ShadowBroker, one key thing which I believe is one of the 'flags' that was carried over in ME saves was whether you gave him the info on Cerberus or not. I imagine that this will play a part in ME3 and could very well be the catalyst of getting the information from him or not. Be interesting to see what the 'default' canon is on that.

Damn, I always told him to screw off.  The rep warned me that the Shadow Broker may not be able to help us a later date due to that decision...yowzers...

[jtav]

If I had to guess, I'd wager that Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, and Tali will return as squadmembers. All are LIs, and three of the four have large fanbases. Thane and Jack are both dying, and it gives one "tragic" romance option for each gender. With the inclusion of Liara and whoever survived Virmire, and you have enough LIs for everyone and room for new squadmates/