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Bioware is telling us who is likely to be in ME3


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#151
Guest_Shavon_*

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Nozybidaj wrote...


I hate to call for anyone who likes the ME2 cast to get the same treatment as we did, it sucks I know that.

it is probably why you see people campaigning so hard for it NOT to happen to their favortie character.  It was horrible story telling and the fanbase knows it, hence all the "bring back so and so" threads because people are afraid it is going to happen to them in  ME3.

That said, if returning them is going to take time and development resources away from giving the old characters the story they deserve I am all for sticking the ME2 cast in cameo roles.

Idk, if forced to choose between Me1 and ME2 charracters, I'd def. choose ME1 characters.  But going through that shi t treatment of Liara and Kaidan, in Me1, I want retribution, they need to be in ME3.  But, at the same time,I don't want to go through this with Garrus, Thane and Miranda either.

It's sad, but I really think EA doesn't give a sh t about Bioware's fanbase.  Very sad, it'll probably cost them more to start from scratch again, ignoring fans' wishes rather than taking time to develop carryover for squadmates.

#152
epoch_

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jtav wrote...

If I had to guess, I'd wager that Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, and Tali will return as squadmembers. All are LIs, and three of the four have large fanbases. Thane and Jack are both dying, and it gives one "tragic" romance option for each gender. With the inclusion of Liara and whoever survived Virmire, and you have enough LIs for everyone and room for new squadmates/


This could work actually...

How do you know Suze is dying? I seem to recall this, but I can't quite remember where I heard it.

#153
TyDurden13

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tropicalwave wrote...

Just send her down the tube if you want her to die. It isn't that hard. :D Wait did someone else already say that?


Yep, people have said that!  And no, it does not work!

#154
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epoch_ wrote...

jtav wrote...

If I had to guess, I'd wager that Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, and Tali will return as squadmembers. All are LIs, and three of the four have large fanbases. Thane and Jack are both dying, and it gives one "tragic" romance option for each gender. With the inclusion of Liara and whoever survived Virmire, and you have enough LIs for everyone and room for new squadmates/


This could work actually...

How do you know Suze is dying? I seem to recall this, but I can't quite remember where I heard it.

Jacob?  I guess . . .
Jack's upgrade is a biotic amp that stops her neural degradation.  She's not doomed to die like Thane is (****ty move, Bioware)

#155
screwoffreg

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EA has probably not had as much creative input into Bioware games as most imagine. So if they don't give a ****, its obvious Bioware DOES to an extent. The entire Tali romance was basically fan service, but well developed fan service.



With that said, EA is likely not to want to mess with a formula for sucess in ME 3. I see their role as primarily keeping Bioware on track with deadlines. Profit wise, they are encouraging DLC and do NOT want ME or Dragon Age to take five years in development. Hell, three years might be too much for them to capitalize on the success of both games. So if things are cut, it won't be due to censorship, but just timelines.

#156
Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien

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screwoffreg wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

@Screwoffreg
Regarding the ShadowBroker, one key thing which I believe is one of the 'flags' that was carried over in ME saves was whether you gave him the info on Cerberus or not. I imagine that this will play a part in ME3 and could very well be the catalyst of getting the information from him or not. Be interesting to see what the 'default' canon is on that.


Damn, I always told him to screw off.  The rep warned me that the Shadow Broker may not be able to help us a later date due to that decision...yowzers...


Yup, I've taken that path myself with one of my Sheps even though soon as he said that line I was thinking "umm, this might come bite me in the arse later", I really do hope Bioware has remembered this. Considering it was a 'sidequest' I don't think it will be totally beneficial/detrimental to the cause, but I believe it will add something to any potential encounter with him or one of his agents.

#157
TyDurden13

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epoch_ wrote...

jtav wrote...

If I had to guess, I'd wager that Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, and Tali will return as squadmembers. All are LIs, and three of the four have large fanbases. Thane and Jack are both dying, and it gives one "tragic" romance option for each gender. With the inclusion of Liara and whoever survived Virmire, and you have enough LIs for everyone and room for new squadmates/


This could work actually...

How do you know Suze is dying? I seem to recall this, but I can't quite remember where I heard it.


People have speculated that Jack is dying because of the security console recordings on her loyalty mission say the subjects at the Pragia facility were have nueral decay or something.  It's just spec though.  And personally I thought it was bogus cause the whole purpose of the tests on other subjects were to make sure Jack did NOT die.  Althuogh there may be something to it., i.e. if Jack had nueral decay nd the tests were to find a cure...

#158
Ecael

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Is there going to be a thread about this everyday now? It seems pointless to argue when there are too many people who are letting their pessimistic fanboyism/fangirlism get in the way of reason. They need to realize that Mass Effect is NOT a dating sim or romance visual novel and BioWare is free to do anything to their characters. Love Interests do not have a massive effect on this game and are only there as an afterthought for fan service; BioWare would most likely do away with it if they could (not that Shepard could declare himself chaste). After all, your Shepard does not develop a deep, lasting relationship with ANY of the characters at any point in the series - YOU did.

For those who do want to play romance visual novels with none of the shooting and all of the dialogue, may I suggest the ones made by Key to start with:

Clannad
Kanon

If you know Japanese or if you can find the English translations for them, that's good. Key games average about 40,000 lines of spoken dialogue per game (and the main character doesn't even talk, like Dragon Age). That's more dialogue than you would find - even in Mass Effect. There are many more visual novels that are translated entirely by fans (so you can tell they have a dedicated fanbse).

----

At this point, I'd be willing to bet money that BioWare is going to keep around 6 squadmates from ME2 and have the other half show up as cameos (if they survive, of course). Which 6 squadmates? I don't care. Are they going to bring back Liara, Ashley/Kaidan and possibly Wrex as squadmates? I don't care either. As long as it makes sense. All I can figure out is that they'll probably aim for 12-14 squadmates again, and not all of them are going to be new.

Hell, they could resurrect Jenkins for all I know, and he's a good Soldier type squadmate. He just needs to work on his charging skills.

#159
screwoffreg

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Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

@Screwoffreg
Regarding the ShadowBroker, one key thing which I believe is one of the 'flags' that was carried over in ME saves was whether you gave him the info on Cerberus or not. I imagine that this will play a part in ME3 and could very well be the catalyst of getting the information from him or not. Be interesting to see what the 'default' canon is on that.


Damn, I always told him to screw off.  The rep warned me that the Shadow Broker may not be able to help us a later date due to that decision...yowzers...


Yup, I've taken that path myself with one of my Sheps even though soon as he said that line I was thinking "umm, this might come bite me in the arse later", I really do hope Bioware has remembered this. Considering it was a 'sidequest' I don't think it will be totally beneficial/detrimental to the cause, but I believe it will add something to any potential encounter with him or one of his agents.


I don't think it will totally PREVENT us from working with the Shadow Broker, just maybe make us have a very high Paragon/Renegade score to do so.  I am not a fan of many peoples theories that the Broker is purely a Reaper agent.  If that was so, there were probably plenty of opportunities to kill Shepard and others in ME 2.  Why not kill Anderson, for example?  I hope the Shadow Broker is more complex than "HAHA I AM EVIL BOW BEFORE ME!" or otherwise the whole Liara DLC will just be a black and white romp to defeat the dark and insidious Shadow Broker.

#160
shinobi602

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Ecael wrote...
Love Interests do not have a massive effect on this game and are only there as an afterthought for fan service; BioWare would most likely do away with it if they could (not that Shepard could declare himself chaste). After all, your Shepard does not develop a deep, lasting relationship with ANY of the characters at any point in the series - YOU did.


Speak for yourself.

#161
screwoffreg

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While Bioware romances have never been CENTRAL as in the plot falls apart without them they have usually always been present and always contributed to your characters ending/resolution.

#162
Nozybidaj

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shinobi602 wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Love Interests do not have a massive effect on this game and are only there as an afterthought for fan service; BioWare would most likely do away with it if they could (not that Shepard could declare himself chaste). After all, your Shepard does not develop a deep, lasting relationship with ANY of the characters at any point in the series - YOU did.


Speak for yourself.


I always find a little humorous when people to talk about how insignificant the romances are on a "Bioware" forum where every page of it is filled with "love threads".  They obviously are playing games from the wrong company if they can't handle the romance arcs being part of the game. :P

#163
Ecael

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shinobi602 wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Love Interests do not have a massive effect on this game and are only there as an afterthought for fan service; BioWare would most likely do away with it if they could (not that Shepard could declare himself chaste). After all, your Shepard does not develop a deep, lasting relationship with ANY of the characters at any point in the series - YOU did.


Speak for yourself.

Sure, I will. These are the characters I like (not that I'd prefer any one of them over the other):

-Grunt
-Legion
-Zaeed
-Ashley
-Kaidan
-Wrex
-Garrus
-Tali
-Liara
-Samara
-Mordin
-Miranda
-Jacob
-Thane
-Jack
-Morinth
-Wilson
-Kasumi
-Jenkins

Kasumi and Jenkins - Yes, I like both of them too. It is just hilarious to watch Jenkins die in three shots with his paper armor, even if you gave him Colossus X Human armor. He has some decent conversation before Eden Prime. Also, I'm already quite fond of Kasumi referring to the Commander as 'Shep'. As a plus, she's a tech expert.

What are the chances of me being entirely disappointed by squadmates in ME3? Not much. BioWare does a good job in making new characters - but I doubt all of them are going to be new.

EDIT: Added Wilson

Modifié par Ecael, 25 février 2010 - 08:04 .


#164
GuardianAngel470

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Madecologist wrote...

Also to dispell Miranda is harder to kill. I have a friend where Miranda was the only person to die. He did not do it on purpose. He was trying to get everyone to live and only she died. He was shocked. Yeah.. she is hard to kill.....


I agree with this.  On my second and third playthroughs Miranda was the only non-specialist/fireteam leader to die.  She was disloyal when I had her hold the line and she was the only casualty for that segment.  This arguement that she is harder to kill belies my personal experience.  She is easy to kill, just have her hold the line after the specialist and fireteam leader die as well as taking her to the final boss fight while disloyal.  Yes there are less chances for her to die but the two chances I've seen are easy to achieve.

#165
Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien

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Ecael wrote...

Hell, they could resurrect Jenkins for all I know, and he's a good Soldier type squadmate. He just needs to work on his charging skills.


Except Jenkins is as good as dead as any dead person can be other than Shepherd who is a legend/ghost/god. :lol:

That would be like also saying that Wilson can be resurrected as he is a good Engineer type squadmate. Who just needs to work on his subtlety in stabbing people in the back. :devil:

I reckon Antos is going to be the new Jenkins/Wilson in ME3. It'll start on Omega and it'll be Shep+one of the ME2 squadmates. Antos will die and get replaced by Aria as Shepherd helps her get off Omega which is getting destroyed and in the first half hour Aria will have altered her 'phrase' to "No one fraks with Aria and gets away with it!"

Then the game will end with her being Sheps new LI and her dying just before he/she gives him/herself to the Reapers to save the galaxy.


That was a joke

#166
Madecologist

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screwoffreg wrote...

While Bioware romances have never been CENTRAL as in the plot falls apart without them they have usually always been present and always contributed to your characters ending/resolution.

In short Bioware gives us the romantic cookie. Awww... I bet they are all hopeless romantics deep down :D

#167
Ecael

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Nozybidaj wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Love Interests do not have a massive effect on this game and are only there as an afterthought for fan service; BioWare would most likely do away with it if they could (not that Shepard could declare himself chaste). After all, your Shepard does not develop a deep, lasting relationship with ANY of the characters at any point in the series - YOU did.


Speak for yourself.


I always find a little humorous when people to talk about how insignificant the romances are on a "Bioware" forum where every page of it is filled with "love threads".  They obviously are playing games from the wrong company if they can't handle the romance arcs being part of the game. :P

Compare the sheer volume of those love threads on the 'BioWare' forum to the actual amount of time you spend talking to the character in that 'BioWare' game. Garrus is still doing calibrations, Tali is still cleaning the engine, Liara is still threatening to flay people, and xenophobic Ashley is still suffering from cognitive dissonance.

No one's going to be talking about their deep relationship with the Mako, or their lust for the long elevators on the Citadel, or that three-foot high wall that they absolutely adore for cover. Nor will they be talking about the pretty loading screen that they love to wink at, or that weapon that they've given a cute name for. These are the integral parts of Mass Effect.

Mass Effect 2 is already dangerously close to becoming a pure shooter with a good story and limited RPG elements - Mass Effect 3 shows no signs of deviating from it.

#168
screwoffreg

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Aria I hope will be in ME 3. She is a very interesting character, and I imagine those with "big time" voice actors won't be discarded after one game. So the Illusive Man will return as will a few others based just on that.



Aria could help you and Liara in your quest for info about the Broker, if your search leads you to Omega that is.

#169
Ecael

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Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Except Jenkins is as good as dead as any dead person can be other than Shepherd who is a legend/ghost/god. :lol:

That would be like also saying that Wilson can be resurrected as he is a good Engineer type squadmate. Who just needs to work on his subtlety in stabbing people in the back. :devil:

That was a joke

Who knows, maybe Jenkins has the 'Feign Death' skill as a bonus. Also, I forgot to add Wilson - he's voiced by Steve Blum (also Grunt/Vido Santiago/Aresh), so he's pretty cool too.

#170
GuardianAngel470

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Shavon wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...


I hate to call for anyone who likes the ME2 cast to get the same treatment as we did, it sucks I know that.

it is probably why you see people campaigning so hard for it NOT to happen to their favortie character.  It was horrible story telling and the fanbase knows it, hence all the "bring back so and so" threads because people are afraid it is going to happen to them in  ME3.

That said, if returning them is going to take time and development resources away from giving the old characters the story they deserve I am all for sticking the ME2 cast in cameo roles.

Idk, if forced to choose between Me1 and ME2 charracters, I'd def. choose ME1 characters.  But going through that shi t treatment of Liara and Kaidan, in Me1, I want retribution, they need to be in ME3.  But, at the same time,I don't want to go through this with Garrus, Thane and Miranda either.

It's sad, but I really think EA doesn't give a sh t about Bioware's fanbase.  Very sad, it'll probably cost them more to start from scratch again, ignoring fans' wishes rather than taking time to develop carryover for squadmates.


I'm probably wrong, but isn't EA just the distributor, in charge of Digital and physical distibution, or was there a merger I don't know about?

#171
redguppie

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Ecael wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Love Interests do not have a massive effect on this game and are only there as an afterthought for fan service; BioWare would most likely do away with it if they could (not that Shepard could declare himself chaste). After all, your Shepard does not develop a deep, lasting relationship with ANY of the characters at any point in the series - YOU did.


Speak for yourself.


I always find a little humorous when people to talk about how insignificant the romances are on a "Bioware" forum where every page of it is filled with "love threads".  They obviously are playing games from the wrong company if they can't handle the romance arcs being part of the game. :P

Compare the sheer volume of those love threads on the 'BioWare' forum to the actual amount of time you spend talking to the character in that 'BioWare' game. Garrus is still doing calibrations, Tali is still cleaning the engine, Liara is still threatening to flay people, and xenophobic Ashley is still suffering from cognitive dissonance.

No one's going to be talking about their deep relationship with the Mako, or their lust for the long elevators on the Citadel, or that three-foot high wall that they absolutely adore for cover. Nor will they be talking about the pretty loading screen that they love to wink at, or that weapon that they've given a cute name for. These are the integral parts of Mass Effect.

Mass Effect 2 is already dangerously close to becoming a pure shooter with a good story and limited RPG elements - Mass Effect 3 shows no signs of deviating from it.


While the amount of actual gametime the take up is small.  They have a huge impact on the level of immersion  that many people try to feel when watching a movie/reading a book/ playing a game.  The sheer volume of threads dedicated to this ought to tell you how much of an impact it has on a game. 

A mediocre story can be made great by a good romance, and a great story can be ruined with a badly written one.  Bottom line, You arn't going to find many stories that lack a romance in some form or fashion.

#172
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Tbh, I don't really know. I do know they bought out Bioware, but put the founder on the board of directors. So they have some say/power over projects. They are the ones that discourage gay romances in ME. They seem like the Man sticking his too powerful fingers in what was a good thing, but I'm not sure, could be wrong. And devs never clarify, so . . .

#173
KnotEngaged

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Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

The way I see it, a simple way they can fix it for everyone is that they can choose (within reason) who to have in their squad in ME3. that way everybody is happy.

They have proven they can do it with ME2 with the fact you didn't need to recruit Grunt (left in lifepod), Thane, Tali, Samara or Legion (sent to cerberus or not activated). So it won't be hard for them to setup a similar premise in ME3. That way Shepherd can have the team he/she wants out of the potential squadmate choices.

Also to go back to your point, what 'very good reason' other than being a potential LI do Ashley, Kaidan and Liara have over the ME2 people to apply for full-time members of Shepherd's squad?


This outcome makes the most sense to me, and like you said, it will please most everyone.  I think it would give ME3 a great dynamic and replay value.

Give us a large group of say 15 dossiers, saying that we need to pick 8 of them for our elite team to fight against the reapers.  This allows for each player to recruit or not recruit whomever they want to.

Want Ashely but not Liara?  That's fine.  Want Wrex instead of Grunt?  That's fine too.  How about only your ME2 LI, or maybe you want both your ME1 and ME2 LIs, go for it.  The team customization is endless and makes for a very personal experience.  If you don't pick a character as a team member then they will be religated to a cameo role, but in the end it was your choice that made their role so small.
 

#174
Zulu_DFA

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Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

That said, if returning them is going to take time and development resources away from giving the old characters the story they deserve I am all for sticking the ME2 cast in cameo roles.


This is good point. Liara and Ashley/Kaidan were there first, so it's their right (so to say) to get the most possible (budgetwise) attention. Garrus and Tali got their attention in ME2, Wrex's fans are mostly happy about his cameo.

So any ME2 squadmate should better have a very good reason to apply for full-time job in ME3.


[sarcasm]Right because everyone who played ME used just Ash/Kaidan and Liara in their team....[/sarcasm]

Liara could be left till after Virmire before being recruited and for some people was just as much a cameo in ME as she was in ME2.


That's my case you're talking about. In *my* canon she never met Kaidan. Never had a chance to romance me. Was hilariously pissed off when I told her about everything concerning Protheans' extinction in about 5 minutes. Maybe that's when she decided to quit archaelogy and join the information business.

So why should they be 'forced' this time to have her in their squad if they don't want her?


Yet, I want her a squadmate. She deserves lots of screentime, since she was integral part of hunting down Saren (more so, than even Tali with her petty evidence). She helped Cerberus retrieve my dead body (did all the job in fact on their behalf). She is after the Shadow Broker. So, unless we get a DLC with a lot of screen time for her, she deserves to get it in ME3 more then anyone else. Tali, Garrus got theirs in ME2. Wrex had a good cameo, as I heard, and that's it for him, since he could be virmired quite unlike Ashley/Kaidan Januvian character.

Am not anti-Liara, my main Paragon Shep that I have taken through both games is sticking with her. But my Renegade FemShep, she did the aforementioned leaving her till after Virmire and other than speaking to her about Thane, had nothing else to do with her in ME2.

The way I see it, a simple way they can fix it for everyone is that they can choose (within reason) who to have in their squad in ME3. that way everybody is happy.


There is no way to make everybody happy. There is no way to predict how many percent of people you'll make happy. There is, however, a way to build a good game: don't listen to the fanboys, and make your own thing. Maybe this is the only way not to come up with ideas like the silly&hypnotic planet scanning minigame.

They have proven they can do it with ME2 with the fact you didn't need to recruit Grunt (left in lifepod), Thane, Tali, Samara or Legion (sent to cerberus or not activated).


But I had to recruit Thane, to get the Viper SR! And Tali to get the Tempest SMG. WTF? And I never thought I'll have to keep a private Museun of the Natural History of Tuchanka in my warship's cargohold. And why would TIM not be interested in acquiring the single exibit of that museum, while it had Collector tech in him? This point of yours dimissed.

So it won't be hard for them to setup a similar premise in ME3. That way Shepherd can have the team he/she wants out of the potential squadmate choices.


It would be great you could be an actual spectre for once and kill anyone you dislike anytime. I would require a lot more content of lesser quality in the game. So they'll have to do it the smart way. If some badass awesome ME2 expendable is going to end up on the crew in ME3, he'll better have a very good explanation, why that was absolutely necessary, aside from "fanboys want this". What if the fanboys someday decide that Reapers should win?

Also to go back to your point, what 'very good reason' other than being a potential LI do Ashley, Kaidan and Liara have over the ME2 people to apply for full-time members of Shepherd's squad?


Why people think that both LIs have to be on the crew to pit them against one another for the final showdown? You already fell in love twice, now it's time to chose. No more wooing time needed. Maybe discuss things once more with your ME1 LI, who are practically bound (and almost literally promised by devs) to be on the crew. Maybe your ME2 love interest is dead, then you simply click on the blue line of the dialogue wheen and live happily ever after with your ME1 LI. If ME2 LI is alive, you have a couple talks with your ME1 LI and finally choose the one you want when come across ME2 LI somewhere in the Galaxy, working as NPC / part-time squadmate. That's it. Anything else is inappropriate rip-off of budget / time / diskspace in regard to the main plot, which is "Shepard vs. Reapers" And don't forget about the shooter crowd, that just skipped the mining minigame altogether, hd never played ME1 and will fall asleep if your romantic misgivings and perturbations exceed the five-minute limit.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 février 2010 - 08:27 .


#175
Ecael

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redguppie wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Love Interests do not have a massive effect on this game and are only there as an afterthought for fan service; BioWare would most likely do away with it if they could (not that Shepard could declare himself chaste). After all, your Shepard does not develop a deep, lasting relationship with ANY of the characters at any point in the series - YOU did.


Speak for yourself.


I always find a little humorous when people to talk about how insignificant the romances are on a "Bioware" forum where every page of it is filled with "love threads".  They obviously are playing games from the wrong company if they can't handle the romance arcs being part of the game. :P

Compare the sheer volume of those love threads on the 'BioWare' forum to the actual amount of time you spend talking to the character in that 'BioWare' game. Garrus is still doing calibrations, Tali is still cleaning the engine, Liara is still threatening to flay people, and xenophobic Ashley is still suffering from cognitive dissonance.

No one's going to be talking about their deep relationship with the Mako, or their lust for the long elevators on the Citadel, or that three-foot high wall that they absolutely adore for cover. Nor will they be talking about the pretty loading screen that they love to wink at, or that weapon that they've given a cute name for. These are the integral parts of Mass Effect.

Mass Effect 2 is already dangerously close to becoming a pure shooter with a good story and limited RPG elements - Mass Effect 3 shows no signs of deviating from it.


While the amount of actual gametime the take up is small.  They have a huge impact on the level of immersion  that many people try to feel when watching a movie/reading a book/ playing a game.  The sheer volume of threads dedicated to this ought to tell you how much of an impact it has on a game. 

A mediocre story can be made great by a good romance, and a great story can be ruined with a badly written one.  Bottom line, You arn't going to find many stories that lack a romance in some form or fashion.

And there's the problem. BioWare doesn't write romance novels - they write for video games. People are expecting way too much out of specific characters. BioWare does a great job developing characters so that the player can either sympathize or emphasize with them as Shepard, without automatically falling in love with them.

They obviously are playing games from the wrong company if they can't handle the romance arcs being part of the game.

I'm not the one playing games from the wrong company - I expected a shooter with a great story and good character development (without need for romance) and I got it. I'm not afraid of romance arcs (considering I already linked those romance visual novels). Yes, I've played them both and went through most of the arcs - the romance side of visual novels (and anime and just anything Japanese in general) are more immersive and down-to-earth than what you get from a Canadian video game - and that's not really saying much.

Modifié par Ecael, 25 février 2010 - 08:19 .