244 réponses à ce sujet

[redguppie]

- Sever ties with Cerberus, since open confrontation with TIM is one of the possible endings of ME2.

If you chose to destroy the base you just did. why repeat yourself?

- Sever ties with the Alliance, since they've been already quite severed and some players are happy with it.

Creberus is pretty tight with the allaince. or at the very least many of the higher ups

- Cut off the surviving crew, including LIs, since every one of them is expendable on the suicide mission and are likely to appear only as cameos at certain points of ME3.*

which basically means no one but laira since she is the only one that can't die in any game.  this excuse is a nice way of saying the devs are to lazy are were to stupid to properly plan out how it was going to go

- Strip Shepard of all weapons, skills, etc., since no doubt ME3 has to be another playable as a stand-alone shooter/RPG. At the same time fill in the newbies on the whole Mass Effect story.

how exactly are they going to strip his skills.  If you take away my screwdriver that doesn't mean i don't know how to use one.  plus didn't they lower the level cap so bringing in a ME2 character can be raised to 60?  Noone in there right mind is going to believe that the majority of the peopl coming into ME3 haven't played at least one of the past 2.  Plus it will encourage3 them to buy the other ones

- Continue the Council's numbness about the Reapers and Shepard's story, since the moment they finally believe and start doing something about the Reaper threat, Shepard's super heroics in mounting the war effort will become redundant and unnecessary.

it wasn't all those ships outside that stopped Soviergn.  Add the fact that Sheppard is the hero of the galaxy and whatever plan they have he is going to have a main role

- Provide Shepard with an immediate goal and a couple of squadmates for his first mission.

oh look 'glances around the ship'  i have a minimum of 2 people left alive convenient, no?

- Something involving facial reconstruction.
if that machine can heal your scars it isn't to much of a stretch to believe it can't be modified to change more than that

So my version but not mine
Now there are possibilities:
1. In rides the calvalry, be it Liara (Have you met an asari commando before?)

yep killed several and wasn't impressed

or Joker+NormanEDI (He can fire a rifle now, right? Seems Cerberus did some upgrades to his bones too.)

yea i can fire a rifle randomly in the air too, doesn't mean anyone would hope i am part of a rescue

or Aria (+Anto, long anticipated by some people batarian squaddie) or Geth (Shepard-Commander?) and Shepard escapes. On the way out he meets Ashley/Kaidan and can recruit or kill her/him [Renegade action +50].

Why is Aria helping me? I've done nothing to help her
so we can kill the vermire survivor but not Liara?  were is the sense in that

2. The Reaper invasion commences right in the middle of the Shepard's trial, alarms go off everywhere, everything explodes and he escapes with the help of Ashley/Kaidan (that'll be a boring one).

if they could somehow appear right in front of the citidel then what is the point of making it a mass effect point?  they could just jump right there and commence the genecide

3. Anderson & ... [surprise!] Udina secretly pull Shepard out of jail (a quick and easy one) and kick him towards stopping the Reapers.

As to "facial reconstruction", Shepard with his new status of an escaped convict may want to undergo a plastic surgery, right after his escape.

[TyDurden13]

Madecologist wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

Also to dispell Miranda is harder to kill. I have a friend where Miranda was the only person to die. He did not do it on purpose. He was trying to get everyone to live and only she died. He was shocked. Yeah.. she is hard to kill.....

I agree with this.  On my second and third playthroughs Miranda was the only non-specialist/fireteam leader to die.  She was disloyal when I had her hold the line and she was the only casualty for that segment.  This arguement that she is harder to kill belies my personal experience.  She is easy to kill, just have her hold the line after the specialist and fireteam leader die as well as taking her to the final boss fight while disloyal.  Yes there are less chances for her to die but the two chances I've seen are easy to achieve.

This does not dispell anything - and no offense but your personal experience is 100% anecdotal.  We know she is possible to kill.   And, as the game has millions of players and tens of millions of playthroughs, there will be cases where she happens to die even if no-one else does.  The fact remains that she is the hardest to kill, the least likely to die, has the highest survival rate, however you want to say it.  We know this because we have been analyzing the endgame scenario through dozens of permutations, not based on a couple of random playthroughs.

..snip....

Guess what, so is your experience 100% anecdotal.

Except I am not speaking to my personal experience.  I am speaking to the various "xperiments" myself anfd others have conucted in this thread and others, determining who can die, and where.   Gues what?  We know Miranda cannot die on the ship.  We know she cannot die in the vents.  We know she cannot die escorting the crew.  We know she cannot die from the seeker swarm.  We now she cannot die leading the distraction team  She, to my knowledge, cannot die at all  if she is loyal.   That makes her OBJECTIVELY the least likely to die on the mission.

Do people really think Bioware will shape their story based on statistical variations and statistical means of who had more trouble with? .

Yes.

[Madecologist]

I know there is nothing random about the outcome. I BEEN SAYING THIS FROM PAGE ! FOR LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED!!!!!

*deap breaths, deep breaths*

But there is NO solid proof Miranda is more suriviable than anyone else. There is none. She has her windows of mortality and she will die if you make the wrong choice. Saying that X character has more windows means nothing because if you do the right choices they still live. But thinking Bioware will shape the story of ME3 based off of precieved suriviability of characters in the suicide mission is the hardest pill to swallow. Almost seems like an insult towards their writing skills.

Modifié par Madecologist, 25 février 2010 - 09:15 .

[SnakieHelah]

I think most should return, but Thane could die, unless we cure him, also Mordin, he is 50 and average Salarians live to 40, Jack..... She is useless? I mean this is just my opinion, but i didn't even need her for anything, It's like strange, most of the squadmates i used at least a few times, ( I mostly used Garrus, Miranda, Grunt, Thane). Jack had ****ty powers, even though in the cutscene she was all like ("let's kill 5 techs and then when i'm with 3 people fighting a single mech on insanity is still harder")

Okay so her loyalty mission was crap, she couldn't do anything on the collector base, well maybe the seeker swarms but then there's Samara...

Still, most should return, though you can see who bioware wanted to die and who not.

[shinobi602]

Ecael wrote...
And their roles are not important in ME2 because?

There was little interaction with them.

Ecael wrote...
Sure, they become essential squadmates and key plot characters in ME3. But how many people will be satisfied by the amount of dialogue and content they put in each character? Do you think it will actually be worth the 5 year wait?

I have faith in Bioware, they haven't let me down so far. I don't see a reason why they can't do a great job with them.

Ecael wrote...
EDIT: Also, do you think people will appreciate it if Kaidan/Ashley get exactly the same lines again?

Not sure what you mean here.

[Ecael]

Madecologist wrote...

I know there is nothing random about the outcome. I BEEN SAYING THIS FROM PAGE ! FOR LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED!!!!!

*deap breaths, deep breaths*

But there is NO solid proof Miranda is more suriviable than anyone else. There is none. She has her windows of mortality and she will die if you make the wrong choice. Saying that X character has more windows means nothing because if you do the right choices they still live. But thinking Bioware will shape the story of ME3 based off of precieved suriviability of characters in the suicide mission is the hardest pill swallow. Almost seems like an insult towards their writing skills.

BioWare intentionally designed Miranda with certain survivability traits.

BioWare is responsible for bring back whatever characters they choose, not the player.

That's all you need to know, and that's why Miranda's more likely to come back than the others. In actuality, if we knew the terms of Yvonne Strahovski's voice actress contract, we could confirm whether we're right or wrong.

[Nozybidaj]

Ecael wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

But Bioware specifically stated why Ashley/Kaidan and Liara had the roles they did in ME2.....

Half-truths are fun. If BioWare truly listened to their fans, they'd put Ashley/Kaidan and Liara as squadmates in ME2 and find some cliche plot device that involves rescuing them or leaving them behind during/after the suicide mission to ensure their guaranteed survival for ME3.

Personally I thought that is how it should have been handled all along.  Have them get kidnapped along with the rest of the crew during the Collector attack.  Who here wouldn't have gotten a much more emotionally engaging moment seeing their LI get dragged into that elevator instead of Kelly?  Now like Chakwas whenever you get there they are alive and go back to the Normandy.  Viola, death protection in ME2 that doesn't exclude them from actually being a part of it.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 25 février 2010 - 09:20 .

[shinobi602]

Ecael wrote...

That's all you need to know, and that's why Miranda's more likely to come back than the others. In actuality, if we knew the terms of Yvonne Strahovski's voice actress contract, we could confirm whether we're right or wrong.

Keep a look out on her IMDB profile for when "Mass Effect 3" pops up

[TyDurden13]

Madecologist wrote...

I know there is nothing random about the outcome. I BEEN SAYING THIS FROM PAGE ! FOR LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED!!!!!

*deap breaths, deep breaths*

But there is NO solid proof Miranda is more suriviable than anyone else.

I am sorry, but this is dead wrong.  There is loads of proof, as outlined all over this thread. 

[redguppie]

Ecael wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

I know there is nothing random about the outcome. I BEEN SAYING THIS FROM PAGE ! FOR LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED!!!!!

*deap breaths, deep breaths*

But there is NO solid proof Miranda is more suriviable than anyone else. There is none. She has her windows of mortality and she will die if you make the wrong choice. Saying that X character has more windows means nothing because if you do the right choices they still live. But thinking Bioware will shape the story of ME3 based off of precieved suriviability of characters in the suicide mission is the hardest pill swallow. Almost seems like an insult towards their writing skills.

BioWare intentionally designed Miranda with certain survivability traits.

BioWare is responsible for bring back whatever characters they choose, not the player.

That's all you need to know, and that's why Miranda's more likely to come back than the others. In actuality, if we knew the terms of Yvonne Strahovski's voice actress contract, we could confirm whether we're right or wrong.

You still run into the problem of she can die.  As long as the possiblity remains you can't make definite plans regarding a character.  otherwise how do you explain her apperence to those that had her killed?

[Madecologist]

Ecael wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

I know there is nothing random about the outcome. I BEEN SAYING THIS FROM PAGE ! FOR LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED!!!!!

*deap breaths, deep breaths*

But there is NO solid proof Miranda is more suriviable than anyone else. There is none. She has her windows of mortality and she will die if you make the wrong choice. Saying that X character has more windows means nothing because if you do the right choices they still live. But thinking Bioware will shape the story of ME3 based off of precieved suriviability of characters in the suicide mission is the hardest pill swallow. Almost seems like an insult towards their writing skills.

BioWare intentionally designed Miranda with certain survivability traits.

BioWare is responsible for bring back whatever characters they choose, not the player.

That's all you need to know, and that's why Miranda's more likely to come back than the others. In actuality, if we knew the terms of Yvonne Strahovski's voice actress contract, we could confirm whether we're right or wrong.

I never argued she won't come back. Unless you save files says she is dead. Unless they pull a Lazarus on us again. She will be dead in those games. Otherwise if she lives, she will be back and most probably will be a Squadmate. I never argued that point.

What I am arguing is this is because of her role in the story and not her "plotinium armour" during the suicide mission. IE your own arguements is what solidifies her role.

[TyDurden13]

Ecael wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

I know there is nothing random about the outcome. I BEEN SAYING THIS FROM PAGE ! FOR LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED!!!!!

*deap breaths, deep breaths*

But there is NO solid proof Miranda is more suriviable than anyone else. There is none. She has her windows of mortality and she will die if you make the wrong choice. Saying that X character has more windows means nothing because if you do the right choices they still live. But thinking Bioware will shape the story of ME3 based off of precieved suriviability of characters in the suicide mission is the hardest pill swallow. Almost seems like an insult towards their writing skills.

BioWare intentionally designed Miranda with certain survivability traits.

BioWare is responsible for bring back whatever characters they choose, not the player.

That's all you need to know, and that's why Miranda's more likely to come back than the others. In actuality, if we knew the terms of Yvonne Strahovski's voice actress contract, we could confirm whether we're right or wrong.

All I would add to this is that Bioware brought back 1 playable party member for the Dragon Age expansion.  That 1 character also happened to be (probably) the hardest to kill on a plythrough of DA:O.  Coincidence?  Possibly, but I wouldn't go ahead and put money on it.

[Throw_this_away]

"There is no way to make everybody happy. There is no way to predict how many percent of people you'll make happy. There is, however, a way to build a good game: don't listen to the fanboys, and make your own thing."

One of the more resonable points in the thread IMHO.

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 25 février 2010 - 09:21 .

[Poisonedblades]

This whole, "because Kaiden/Ashley had a chance of dying, they were not included in ME2" is just a huge failure. If I cared enough to elaborate, I would label it as the Hasty Generalization fallacy. But I dont, so the abridged version is as follows:

You cant learn enough about the trends of a writing staff through ONE game. Give it up and just wait for official news.

[NoBrandOnMe]

Miranda is only hard to kill because she is 2nd in command and is needed for the cut scenes..

[Madecologist]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

I know there is nothing random about the outcome. I BEEN SAYING THIS FROM PAGE ! FOR LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED!!!!!

*deap breaths, deep breaths*

But there is NO solid proof Miranda is more suriviable than anyone else.

I am sorry, but this is dead wrong.  There is loads of proof, as outlined all over this thread. 

So the burden of proof is on me. Fine, here is my proof.

[[Unloyal Miranda will die as Second Fire Team Leader. Miranda will die if she fills the position of squad member X (I do not know if it is 2nd or 3rd but it tends to be the same) when an inappropriate Biotic is taken.]] Miranda will die if unloyal during the final battle. Miranda will die at the Line if the party score is not enough to ensure her survival. She is not fragile like Jack, Tali, and Mordin. But she is not the heavy weight of Grunt, Garrus, and Zaeed either. [[Where Miranda can not die is during the space battle and with the Vents. But a lot of character besides Miranda fit both those criteria.]]

Edit - [[Statements]] are incorrect. Validity not verified by poster and at the moment to be considered wrong.

Modifié par Madecologist, 25 février 2010 - 09:59 .

[TyDurden13]

redguppie wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

I know there is nothing random about the outcome. I BEEN SAYING THIS FROM PAGE ! FOR LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED!!!!!

*deap breaths, deep breaths*

But there is NO solid proof Miranda is more suriviable than anyone else. There is none. She has her windows of mortality and she will die if you make the wrong choice. Saying that X character has more windows means nothing because if you do the right choices they still live. But thinking Bioware will shape the story of ME3 based off of precieved suriviability of characters in the suicide mission is the hardest pill swallow. Almost seems like an insult towards their writing skills.

BioWare intentionally designed Miranda with certain survivability traits.

BioWare is responsible for bring back whatever characters they choose, not the player.

That's all you need to know, and that's why Miranda's more likely to come back than the others. In actuality, if we knew the terms of Yvonne Strahovski's voice actress contract, we could confirm whether we're right or wrong.

You still run into the problem of she can die.  As long as the possiblity remains you can't make definite plans regarding a character.  otherwise how do you explain her apperence to those that had her killed?

Oghren can die in DA:O and yet he is being brought into the expansion.  So it is possible.   Presumedly they are working on variables where he does not appear if you killed him. 

[redguppie]

Throw_this_away wrote...

"There is no way to make everybody happy. There is no way to predict how many percent of people you'll make happy. There is, however, a way to build a good game: don't listen to the fanboys, and make your own thing."

One of the more intelligent points in the thread IMHO.

There is no way in hell that they didn't already know how it was going to go before ME2 even released.  Sure they might be a few tweaks here and there but nothing that would change the story to a large digree is going to happen.  Most likely they story outline was put into place before they made the first since this was a planned trilogy from the start.  They run a business and they aren't a bunch of half assed idiots.  All our argueing isn't going to make a huge impact but it is a way to pass the time.


so have no fear:)

[Nozybidaj]

Throw_this_away wrote...

"There is no way to make everybody happy. There is no way to predict how many percent of people you'll make happy. There is, however, a way to build a good game: don't listen to the fanboys, and make your own thing."

One of the more intelligent points in the thread IMHO.

I dunno, if they had included all the characters that they should have in ME2 I think people would have been pretty close to universally happy with it, at least as far as that particular issue of the game goes.  I don't see many complaints of "why didn't you NOT include so an so in ME2". 

They deliberatly made a decision they KNEW people were going to be upset about.  That doesn't give anyone much right to complain about seeing people get upset about it when you did it on purpose.  None of this should be a surprise to them.

[Ecael]

More I post, more I start talking like Mordin.

shinobi602 wrote...

Ecael wrote...
And their roles are not important in ME2 because?

There was little interaction with them.

Circular logic. Cause and effect. Insignificant roles in second game caused lack of interaction, not caused by lack of interaction. Insignificant roles in one game, insignificant character in whole trilogy. Fans disappointed.

Ecael wrote...
Sure, they become essential squadmates and key plot characters in ME3. But how many people will be satisfied by the amount of dialogue and content they put in each character? Do you think it will actually be worth the 5 year wait?

I have faith in Bioware, they haven't let me down so far. I don't see a reason why they can't do a great job with them.

BioWare great with main storyline. Third game for Reapers, not characters. Impossible to be certain. Quantity over quality with twelve squadmates in second game. Lack of interaction causes disappointment. Garrus still calibrating.

Ecael wrote...
EDIT: Also, do you think people will appreciate it if Kaidan/Ashley get exactly the same lines again?

Not sure what you mean here.

*pops out of Mordin speak momentarily*

Kaidan: You're in the presence of a legend, Delan. And a ghost.
Ashley: You're in the presence of a god, Delan. Back from the dead.
   (Ashley devout religious, not polytheistic. Awkward word usage, similar word structure.)

Kaidan: I thought you were dead, Commander. We all did.
Ashley: I thought you were dead, Shepard. We all did.

(Paragon option)
Kaidan: Yeah, something's bothering me. I spent the last two years believing you were dead!
Ashley: Yeah, something's bothering me. I spent the last two years believing you were dead!

--Solution for third game. Ashley says Shepard, Kaidan says Commander. Keep same lines, less effort required. If love interest is necessary, use same lines too.

[shinobi602]

I see what you're saying Ecael, but I will still take Bioware at their word. They said they have important roles in ME3 and romances will be continued, and I will believe them. There's nothing to lead me to believe the contrary really...

[Ecael]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Oghren can die in DA:O and yet he is being brought into the expansion.  So it is possible.   Presumedly they are working on variables where he does not appear if you killed him. 

Correction. Dragon Age introduced new Dwarf Warrior character recently. Name is Sigrun. Status of Oghren still unknown.

[TyDurden13]

Madecologist wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

I know there is nothing random about the outcome. I BEEN SAYING THIS FROM PAGE ! FOR LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED!!!!!

*deap breaths, deep breaths*

But there is NO solid proof Miranda is more suriviable than anyone else.

I am sorry, but this is dead wrong.  There is loads of proof, as outlined all over this thread. 

So the burden of proof is on me. Fine, here is my proof.

Unloyal Miranda will die as Second Fire Team Leader.

This is incorrect.  Have you read the thread?  Miranda survies as second fire team leader even if she is not loyal.  Furthermore, she is the ONLY squad member this is true of.  Look it up on YouTube if you need proof. 

Miranda will die if she fills the position of squad member X (I do not know if it is 2nd or 3rd but it tends to be the same) when an inappropriate Biotic is taken.

This is also incorrect.  See previous portions of the thread for discussion, since you have obviously not read it and I'm sure I am tired of explaining it.  She cannot die from the seeker swarm.   Again, this is the ONLY character this is true of.

Miranda will die if unloyal during the final battle. Miranda will die at the Line if the party score is not enough to ensure her survival.

Well you are correct here.  But those are the only 2 places Miranda can die   Anyone dies at the final boss if not loyal, so she is no different from anyone there.  There are so many variables with Holding the Line thatit's hard tosay, but she seems to be somewhere in the middle of the pack (meaning you need a prety good bloodbath or a particularly strange lineup) in terms of likliness to die there.  So, yes, all told she is more likely to survive than anyone else.

Modifié par TyDurden13, 25 février 2010 - 09:41 .

[Segameister]

I love the thread - I would say creating the scenario in the suicide mission where team members won't be available in ME3 will be part of the challenge of completing ME3, and giving weight to not keeping them alive.  I'll give some 'what ifs' for example:

If Wrex died in ME1, how difficult would it be to recruit the Krogan to fight in ME3?  OR If Mordin lives, can he create a cure for the Genophage which could either beef up Krogan #'s (given time) or be the incentive to convince them to fight. 

Jack / Zaeed - probably not main characters, but they could be great mercenary band leaders - easier to get their help if needed then?

I think the characters that would left out in the ME2 main plot are probably being saved for ME3 as playable characters, same with the ones that are impossible to kill.  But the other characters can decide which 'ending' you're capable of achieving in the game.  With a plotline that runs over 3 games will likely have several potential endings.

[Ecael]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I dunno, if they had included all the characters that they should have in ME2 I think people would have been pretty close to universally happy with it, at least as far as that particular issue of the game goes.  I don't see many complaints of "why didn't you NOT include so an so in ME2".

Yet...

Nosybidaj wrote...

I always find a little humorous when people to talk about how insignificant the romances are on a "Bioware" forum where every page of it is filled with "love threads".

Modifié par Ecael, 25 février 2010 - 09:34 .