653 réponses à ce sujet

[beermilk]

TIM wants to dominate everything but that doesnt mean TIM wants to be seen carrying a crown and speaking british like some of you think tyranny is about. Democracy is a beautiful, american invention and the greatest thing to happen to humanity and would of course still be in effect, its just that all the choices and candidates and so on would be handpicked by TIM. Cerberus domination would probably more likely function as american neofeudalism with the american aristocracy (in this case TIM) influencing the political discourse of the nation (in this case humanity and beyond) behind the scenes.

[AntiChri5]

beermilk wrote...

TIM wants to dominate everything but that doesnt mean TIM wants to be seen carrying a crown and speaking british like some of you think tyranny is about. Democracy is a beautiful, american invention and the greatest thing to happen to humanity and would of course still be in effect, its just that all the choices and candidates and so on would be handpicked by TIM. Cerberus domination would probably more likely function as american neofeudalism with the american aristocracy (in this case TIM) influencing the political discourse of the nation (in this case humanity and beyond) behind the scenes.

Are you aware that when someone he doesnt like runs for election he has them killed?

[jklinders]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

glitter_guld wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

...

:devil:ALL what Timmy want IS ULTIMATE AND ABSOLUTE POWER over humanity and the galaxy... :devil:

...

Did he tell you that himself? Or, the more times you repeat the phrase, the more believable it becomes?

No, i just live in the country which suffers great damages when one delusioned sicko on the west start spread his "Lenebsraum" ideology and was later on replaced by another sicko from the east and his Socialistic paradise ideology so i learn to read between words and that's why Timmy fail to cover his true intention before me.

May i ask where you live?

Poland, right between Germany and Russia.

Thought so from your post. We here in north America have very little contact with true tyrants and the results of their ambition. there are places in France I hear that you can still find wrecked tanks from the old wars if you know where to look. We just don't have that in our modern history over here. It robs perspective I think.

[beermilk]

AntiChri5 wrote...



Are you aware that when someone he doesnt like runs for election he has them killed?

The terra firma candiate you mentioned mysteriously disappeared. It happens in space.

[AntiChri5]

beermilk wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...



Are you aware that when someone he doesnt like runs for election he has them killed?

The terra firma candiate you mentioned mysteriously disappeared. It happens in space.

Yes, in Ascension we actually witness the assasination.

[beermilk]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Yes, in Ascension we actually witness the assasination.

Interesting, of course its all fiction.  However you are free of course to share your crazy conspiracy that some super secret organization assasinating candiates in order to change the political discourse for the embetterment and advancement of humanity. 

Modifié par beermilk, 26 février 2010 - 02:16 .

[Bigdoser]

jklinders wrote...

Not going to bother replying to specific psts here. Just got back from work and found all sorts of nonsense in here.


If
I am reading the pro-cerberus comments correctly here then the pro
arguments seem to boil down to "All governments are evil, Cerberus is
not a government so they are not evil" Or "Cerberus is no worse than
the STG or Turians"(actually they have a point there.)

I posted
anbout this in a different topic but darned if I will ever find that
one again. the litany of cerberus' crimes was repeated in here several
times so I won't bother. So let's stick with what we have from ME2.

Shepard
dies and Cerberus brings him back. 4 billion credits spent on one
man/woman, why? If TIM is to be believed it is because Shepard is
special. Ok fair enough. What was special about Shepard in ME1, seems
like Shepard was at his/her best when not given any instructions. Get
out there stop Saren, even breaking out of the Citedal in the end game
was a perfect example of that. If Shepard was so speciel why did TIM
feel it so necessary to lead him around like a bull with a ring in his
nose? Because there was other motives than the obvious.

Normandy
2 and it's crew was an elaberate public relations campaign with one
target, Shepard. A crew handpicked right down to that nice cheerful
yeoman Kelly to make Shepard feel warm and fuzzy about Cerberus.
EDI tells you that she and the new Normandy were built using tech
scavved from Sovereign. Hmmmm what did Anderson say about Sovereign? Oh
right, all the juicy bits were scavved before official crews got there.
We KNOW the Turians got some of it too(Thanix Cannon) We also know the
turians are not sharing(codex says nothing about the other council
races getting in on this) So the council believes that Soveriegn is
just a big ship becuase it's AI components went to the new Normandy and
they did not even get a good look at the weapons because they were
shunted off too.

TIM says information is his weapon, oh is it
ever. After horizomn he said he left a few carefully disguised rumors
Shep was alive and working for Cerberus; HE DID NOT SAY WHEN. For all
we know the rumors started years before Shep even woke up. Cerberus is
considered an enemy of the Alliance and the council. Anyone besides me
think that this was calculated specifically to isolate Shepard from
his/her former allies? Would this isolation not force him to think that
he/she had no one else to turn to for resources?


This
takes me back to the question of why put so much effort into bring just
one person back. TIM has highly placed agents in the Alliance, he could
have had entire fleets devoted to stopping the attacks if that is what
he cared about. But if the Alliance fleet was involved could he have
kept the tech in that base to himself? the answer of course is no. So
in conclusion, TIM allowed the deaths of hundreds of thousands of
colonists so that he could put Shepard in the position of thinking he
had no choice but to give that collector base to him and so that only
those TIM wanbted would control it's technology.

Is cerberus evil? I think the answer is self explanitory.

Why wont people read what this guy is saying? plus the people who read the book are giving loads of reason's why cerb cannot be trusted.

[AntiChri5]

beermilk wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Yes, in Ascension we actually witness the assasination.

Interesting, of course its all fiction.  However you are free of course to share your crazy conspiracy that some super secret organization assasinating candiates to change the political discourse by picking and choosing who gets to represent humanity. 

Mass Effect is ALL fiction and Cerberus does assassinate political candidates.

[Madecologist]

Umm.. the novels are canon. Calling the novels fiction is a duh moment because the game is also fiction. Nothing here is none-fiction. It is all fiction. But it is the same fiction in the same fictional universe, with approval that the novels are canon (meaning, what happens in the novels happens in the setting of the game). The fact you can buy it in the Citadel as a piece of "modern historical military literature" does not mean the book we buy IRL is not canon. Especially since BW did state, the books are canon. (The one in the game is a referecial joke/plug for the book).

[beermilk]

AntiChri5 wrote...


Mass Effect is ALL fiction and Cerberus does assassinate political candidates.

Lets just assume this true. Does this in anyway disprove my point that TIM would be a shadow goverment for humanity or is this retard logic that proves that TIM will go hogwild once hes gotten his way and order a 6 billion credit platinum crown and broadcast to every human settlement that hes king human?

[glitter_guld]

beermilk wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...


Mass Effect is ALL fiction and Cerberus does assassinate political candidates.

Lets just assume this true. Does this in anyway disprove my point that TIM would be a shadow goverment for humanity or is this retard logic that proves that TIM will go hogwild once hes gotten his way and order a 6 billion credit platinum crown and broadcast to every human settlement that hes king human?

You are right in your assumptions. He'll have to deal with the Shadow Broker first, though. The SB has all intel on the company-donors of TIM. It will not be easy.

[Madecologist]

beermilk wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...


Mass Effect is ALL fiction and Cerberus does assassinate political candidates.

Lets just assume this true. Does this in anyway disprove my point that TIM would be a shadow goverment for humanity or is this retard logic that proves that TIM will go hogwild once hes gotten his way and order a 6 billion credit platinum crown and broadcast to every human settlement that hes king human?

I actually agree, TIM is more of a Shadow Government type of person than wear the crown, septer, presidential sash himself. He will let someone else lead in the public eyes, let someone else be the top general, the president, or the "Emperor" if you go that route. He will stay in the shadows and make sure the ruler does things the way he likes. Leading and organising from the shadows.

[AntiChri5]

beermilk wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...


Mass Effect is ALL fiction and Cerberus does assassinate political candidates.

Lets just assume this true. Does this in anyway disprove my point that TIM would be a shadow goverment for humanity or is this retard logic that proves that TIM will go hogwild once hes gotten his way and order a 6 billion credit platinum crown and broadcast to every human settlement that hes king human?

What are you even bloody talking about? Of course he would rule in secret through assassination and misinformation, why would his modis operandi change?

[mossfoot]

Is Cerberus Evil? There is a simple way to find out.



Do their uniforms and armor look better than those of regular Alliance Issue (not N7, I mean normal troops)?



If yes, they are evil. It's, like, a law or soemthing. Badguys always have better uniforms and armor

[beermilk]

A political assasination ordered by Cerberus changes the political discourse to Cerberus favor by giving Cerberus the opportunity to place cerberus sympathetic candidates. Of course in retard logic this means that TIM will reveal himself and his organization, show up on Arcturus station with his new platinum crown and tell the alliance that theyre not needed anymore, since humanity gots a new king, King TIM!!!

Modifié par beermilk, 26 février 2010 - 02:31 .

[AntiChri5]

beermilk wrote...

A political assasination ordered by Cerberus changes the political discourse to Cerberus favor by given Cerberus the opportunity to place cerberus sympathetic candidates. Of course in retard logic this means that TIM will reveal himself and his organization, show up on Arcturus station with his new platinum crown and tell the alliance that theyre not needed anymore, since humanity gots a new king, King TIM!!!

When did anyone say he wouldnt be a shadow ruler? It is obvious he would.

[Madecologist]

I don't think TIM wants to take the reigns himself. He definately is a shadow government/behind the scenes kind of guy. Still think he is amoral and is behind a lot of very bad stuff though.

[Asheer_Khan]

Are you want see something like this at the end of mass Effect 3?



But whit Timmy who will deliver similar speech?

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 26 février 2010 - 02:41 .

[jklinders]

Madecologist wrote...

beermilk wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...


Mass Effect is ALL fiction and Cerberus does assassinate political candidates.

Lets just assume this true. Does this in anyway disprove my point that TIM would be a shadow goverment for humanity or is this retard logic that proves that TIM will go hogwild once hes gotten his way and order a 6 billion credit platinum crown and broadcast to every human settlement that hes king human?

I actually agree, TIM is more of a Shadow Government type of person than wear the crown, septer, presidential sash himself. He will let someone else lead in the public eyes, let someone else be the top general, the president, or the "Emperor" if you go that route. He will stay in the shadows and make sure the ruler does things the way he likes. Leading and organising from the shadows.

Being the power behind the throne means to have the power. I keep using the term emperor, but it is meant in a sarcastic way. Just so we are clear, if you have the authority to directly influence who is publically in charge and that person is beholden to you, you have the power. Just because he is not publiclly going to display it does not mean he won't have it.

Even if I am wrong and TIM does not plant himself in charge and simply allows humanity to be in charge the other races will not stand for it. Sooner or later they will rise up and that will be the end of humanity. Not exactly a long term human survival outcome here.

[Habelo]

they are liars, dont respect shephard.

[Computron2000]

glitter_guld wrote...
I don't think that goal is bad at all, to be a dominant race, that is. Everything depends on the cost, of course...

Wow, heard of skinheads? KKK? I think they support a dominant race too. So if TIM's goal is not bad at all, then skinheads and KKK goals are not bad as well. Logical?

Modifié par Computron2000, 26 février 2010 - 03:53 .

[beermilk]

I dont really see how an autocrat who makes sure things are done The Right Way would be a bad thing. Just look how were living now. Isnt it great? Sure we screw over the 3rd world and I have to vote for policies that only benefit the aristocracy, but look at this cheap 42" HDTV I own! I get to play ME2 in full HDTV!

Even if I am wrong and TIM does not plant himself in charge and simply allows humanity to be in charge the other races will not stand for it. Sooner or later they will rise up and that will be the end of humanity. Not exactly a long term human survival outcome here.

With the collector base, the key element that would only make Cerberus ascension to galactic dominance possible along with a possible reaper war in order to weaken the aliens, humanity will have the technological advantage to get aliens to sign one way trade agreements and other sneaky ways that will benefit humanity only while making sure aliens are stuck and ****ed. It will all look great on paper and if the aliens complain, humanity will just have to remind them whos got the big lasers now. To avoid aliens banding together, cause racial tension and try to create instability within themselves and their neighbours. Theres nothing to fear, long term human survival is assured.

[jklinders]

beermilk wrote...

I dont really see how an autocrat who makes sure things are done The Right Way would be a bad thing. Just look how were living now. Isnt it great? Sure we screw over the 3rd world and I have to vote for policies that only benefit the aristocracy, but look at this cheap 42" HDTV I own! I get to play ME2 in full HDTV!

Even if I am wrong and TIM does not plant himself in charge and simply allows humanity to be in charge the other races will not stand for it. Sooner or later they will rise up and that will be the end of humanity. Not exactly a long term human survival outcome here.

With the collector base, the key element that would only make Cerberus ascension to galactic dominance possible along with a possible reaper war in order to weaken the aliens, humanity will have the technological advantage to get aliens to sign one way trade agreements and other sneaky ways that will benefit humanity only while making sure aliens are stuck and ****ed. It will all look great on paper and if the aliens complain, humanity will just have to remind them whos got the big lasers now. To avoid aliens banding together, cause racial tension and try to create instability within themselves and their neighbours. Theres nothing to fear, long term human survival is assured.

This hinges heavily of coarse on the idea that no one will ever ever smuggle technology to other species for fun and profit. Any student of history will tell that what comes up eventually comes down. The ghosts of the Romans, Macedonians, Cartheginians, Persians, Mongols ect would be happy to tell you were it possible for you to ask.

Sic semper tyrannis is a Latin phrase
meaning "thus always to tyrants".

[Bartlebyfinch]

There are a lot of really interesting theories being tossed around here. Jklinders's "Shepard was resurrected ONLY to retrieve the Collector base" idea is particularly interesting.



I never got around to reading any of the ME novels, so I had no idea who TIM was before playing ME2. Still, after completing multiple play throughs, it seems pretty obvious to me that Cerberus is supposed to come across as evil. The whole theme of ME2 kinda revolves around "desperate times call for desperate measures." All of Shepard's old allies have either turned their back on him or can't help him. An apocalypse is fast approaching, and the only ones who are willing to help him are the bad guys. To me, that was the core of the entire game. How dirty will Shepard have to get to do what must be done? Can he work with the scum of humanity (people who, especially if he is an Akuze survivor, he probably hates more than words can describe) without selling his soul? ME2 is a much, much darker game than ME1. Personally, I suspect it will turn out to be a much darker game than ME3 as well. While ME2 was the "make a deal with the Devil" chapter, it seems logical to me to expect that we will see a much more morally straightforward story when the ME saga reaches its conclusion.



That's just my take on the game, but, from a storytelling point of view, it seems pretty blatant to me.