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[rma2110]

He used Shep to take out the collectors, and my Shep did just that. Giving TIM the collector base was an extra I refused him mostly because I was sick of being usde. I also don't think TIM has the wisdom to use the reaper tech to our best advantage. Too hot headed and adversarial, with an ego the size of the milky way.

Who says the reapers did not want Shep to use humanity's best to take down the collectors? They know us now. They have studied Shep and crew. Now they know just how to hurt us.

Modifié par rma2110, 07 décembre 2010 - 01:06 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

rma2110 wrote...

Strange isn't it? I don't know TIM, but I dig get to know the crew. I only trust TIM as far as taking out the collectors go. We have the same goal there. After that I fully expect him to stab my Shep in the back.

Because the reason he brought you back (the Reapers and your importance to humanity), had you investigate the colony disappearances (the importance to humanity and concerns about the Reapers), and the reason he never says a word or take action no matter how anti-Cerberus you are in word and deed before the Collector Base decision (again, the Reapers and your importance to Humanity) change after the Collector Base decision?

www.youtube.com/watch ...Joker's reaction at your post

[Xilizhra]

If the Council and Cerberus are both evil, I'll deal with them both with whatever means are available to me (though I won't let the Council die; not only does it kill off the DA's crew, but a change that violent causes too much damaging social unrest and makes Joram Talid actually make sense, though if I had the option, it'd be fun to endorse him...)

[Dean_the_Young]

rma2110 wrote...

He used Shep to take out the collectorsand my Shep did just that. Giving TIM the collector base was an extra I refused him mostly because I was sick of being usde. I also don't think TIM has the wisdom to use the reaper tech to our best advantage. Too hot headed and adversarial, with an ego the size of the milky way.

...and?

I didn't ask why you did your best to part ways with TIM. I'm asking what changed between the point the Illusive Man decided to nigh-bankrupt Cerberus bringing back an icon who he knew had no reason to be aligned or favorable to Cerberus even before he knew about the Collectors, and and what after the Collector Base has changed those reasons from 'bring Shepard, who has a 1/3 chance of having justification to want to kill us on the spot, back from the dead' to 'kill Shepard.'

Who says the reapers did not want Shep to use humanity's best to take down the collectors?

Harbinger did.
 

They know us now. They have studied Shep and crew. Now they know just how to hurt us.

I really don't understand either what you mean with this or what point you intended to make. It seems rather... removed from the topic at hand.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 07 décembre 2010 - 03:58 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

rma2110 wrote...

Strange isn't it? I don't know TIM, but I dig get to know the crew. I only trust TIM as far as taking out the collectors go. We have the same goal there. After that I fully expect him to stab my Shep in the back.

Because the reason he brought you back (the Reapers and your importance to humanity), had you investigate the colony disappearances (the importance to humanity and concerns about the Reapers), and the reason he never says a word or take action no matter how anti-Cerberus you are in word and deed before the Collector Base decision (again, the Reapers and your importance to Humanity) change after the Collector Base decision?

www.youtube.com/watch ...Joker's reaction at your post

Dirty, dirty liar (again), Khan, breaking your (repeated) promise to not talk to me.

You know who else repeatedly broke his promises? 

Stalin.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

If the Council and Cerberus are both evil, I'll deal with them both with whatever means are available to me (though I won't let the Council die; not only does it kill off the DA's crew, but a change that violent causes too much damaging social unrest and makes Joram Talid actually make sense, though if I had the option, it'd be fun to endorse him...)

...after the Reapers are defeated.

That was how you were going to finish you point, right? You'd deal with them both after the massive, mutual, genocidal threat at hand was done and averted?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 07 décembre 2010 - 04:05 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

rma2110 wrote...

Strange isn't it? I don't know TIM, but I dig get to know the crew. I only trust TIM as far as taking out the collectors go. We have the same goal there. After that I fully expect him to stab my Shep in the back.

Because the reason he brought you back (the Reapers and your importance to humanity), had you investigate the colony disappearances (the importance to humanity and concerns about the Reapers), and the reason he never says a word or take action no matter how anti-Cerberus you are in word and deed before the Collector Base decision (again, the Reapers and your importance to Humanity) change after the Collector Base decision?

www.youtube.com/watch ...Joker's reaction at your post

Dirty, dirty liar (again), Khan, breaking your (repeated) promise to not talk to me.

You know who else repeatedly broke his promises? 

Stalin.

****ing moron

[Dean_the_Young]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

rma2110 wrote...

Strange isn't it? I don't know TIM, but I dig get to know the crew. I only trust TIM as far as taking out the collectors go. We have the same goal there. After that I fully expect him to stab my Shep in the back.

Because the reason he brought you back (the Reapers and your importance to humanity), had you investigate the colony disappearances (the importance to humanity and concerns about the Reapers), and the reason he never says a word or take action no matter how anti-Cerberus you are in word and deed before the Collector Base decision (again, the Reapers and your importance to Humanity) change after the Collector Base decision?

www.youtube.com/watch ...Joker's reaction at your post

Dirty, dirty liar (again), Khan, breaking your (repeated) promise to not talk to me.

You know who else repeatedly broke his promises? 

Stalin.

****ing, but completely, factually correct moron

Fixed it for you.

You know, for a person remarkably quick to insult and cuss at others you have an incredibly thin skin for even hyperbolic poking at your expense. You should get that looked at.

[Jagri]

Quite funny the "360" Cerberus makes between Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2.

It seemed in the first game they were in a contest with the Geth to see how many human colonies they could wipe out.

Now in the second game they supposely are out to protect human colonies?

Heh like a drug lord saying we are out to save the people of this country to inspire the rebel factions to fight for them. Sure they may result in saving some people but truely they are securing the lands in which they plant their cash crops. After it is all said and done conditions in the country generally worsen.

But hay some people are easly swayed by money and a few lies. So despite the money, resources, and personnel he has thrown at Shepard I don't think its enough to purchase his/her sworn oaths and loyalties. Some people however sell out cheaper then others and truely its hard to refuse the fact that the "Reapers are coming". That any and all desperate measure should be taken to stop them to include giving game changing weapons to a man who clearly has no value for human life.

Hack with the Galaxy at stake one could rationalize sending fleets of ship with babies in them to be sacrificed if someone provided a reason that it could stop the coming of the cycle.

Modifié par Jagri, 07 décembre 2010 - 07:00 .

[Xilizhra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If the Council and Cerberus are both evil, I'll deal with them both with whatever means are available to me (though I won't let the Council die; not only does it kill off the DA's crew, but a change that violent causes too much damaging social unrest and makes Joram Talid actually make sense, though if I had the option, it'd be fun to endorse him...)

...after the Reapers are defeated.

That was how you were going to finish you point, right? You'd deal with them both after the massive, mutual, genocidal threat at hand was done and averted?

Ideally. But then, I'd have ideally dealt with the Reapers before, say, the Blood Pack. I'm content to put Cerberus aside for now if it doesn't get in my way.

It seemed in the first game they were in a contest with the Geth to see
how many human colonies they could wipe out.

Now in the second
game they supposely are out to protect human colonies?

Considering Retribution and the rather large list of their crimes in LotSB, I think it's safe to say that their character hasn't really changed.

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

[Not dismissing Cerberus as an ally out of hand on the basis that it's no worse than the Council is not equivalent to saying Cerberus is good and ideal, Moiaussi.

I have never advocated dismissing Cerberus as an ally. In one of my earlier posts I compared TIM with Stalin during WWII... a dictator who was arguably evil, but who was essential in defeating a greater threat.

There is one major difference though... WWII wasn't quite as uneven as the impending reaper war, and the Soviet Union at the time was much larger than Cerberus likely is.

Even so, Shep should have played hardball with Cerberus a little more based on the fact TIM needed Shep too, rather than just going along with anything and everything TIM suggests. Joker even defers to TIM over Shep and Shep doesn't challenge Joker on that.

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

and?

I didn't ask why you did your best to part ways with TIM. I'm asking what changed between the point the Illusive Man decided to nigh-bankrupt Cerberus bringing back an icon who he knew had no reason to be aligned or favorable to Cerberus even before he knew about the Collectors, and and what after the Collector Base has changed those reasons from 'bring Shepard, who has a 1/3 chance of having justification to want to kill us on the spot, back from the dead' to 'kill Shepard.'

Nigh bankrupt? We know from the cut scene if Shep dies on the final mission that Cerberus has their own fleet. They also appearantly can afford to completely abandon bases such as Pragia rather than re-purpose them and can't handle a simple mech uprising on Lazarus (which really brings their competence into question arguably more than anything in ME1) . Lazarus was a significant expense, but I really doubt it was that big a hit on Cerberus funding.

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Dirty, dirty liar (again), Khan, breaking your (repeated) promise to not talk to me.

You know who else repeatedly broke his promises? 

Stalin.

You are not seriously comparing a poster here to Stalin are you? If so, I think you just lost your arguement.

[Dean_the_Young]

Jagri wrote...

Quite funny the "360" Cerberus makes between Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2.

It seemed in the first game they were in a contest with the Geth to see how many human colonies they could wipe out.

Zero versus at least two known attempts?

Colony of the Dead never had any suggestion that Cerberus found or used the Dragon's Teeth, only that they retreived husks after it already started, the Rachni escape was never intentional or actually went to an actual colony, there's never been any indication that Cerberus triggered the Thresher Maws to attack the Akuze colony-


Is there a case in particular you were thinking of?



(And, just to make sure because I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not, you do realize a 360 degree turn means you go in the exact same direction you started with?)

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 07 décembre 2010 - 08:35 .

[Xilizhra]

The thorian creepers wiped out another colony, and the Colony of the Dead and Akuze situations are ambiguous at best.

[Dean_the_Young]

Moiaussi wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Dirty, dirty liar (again), Khan, breaking your (repeated) promise to not talk to me.

You know who else repeatedly broke his promises? 

Stalin.

You are not seriously comparing a poster here to Stalin are you? If so, I think you just lost your arguement.

...

It should be patently obvious of the absurdity of the comparison between an anonymous, middle-aged Eastern European nobody on an internet message board who posts un-witty insults and videos, and one of the most famous, successful, paranoid, genocidal totalitarian dictators of the twentieth century-

-is not a sincere, serious, or anything short of outright ridiculous comparison.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

The thorian creepers wiped out another colony,

The Thorian Creepers were an ExoGeni experiment that only went bad when Shepard killed the Thorian. Cerberus's only involvement was in previously buying some Thorian Creepers for an entirely different experiment.

and the Colony of the Dead and Akuze situations are ambiguous at best.

And that changes that there's no evidence Cerberus instigated either... how?

[Xilizhra]

The Thorian Creepers were an ExoGeni experiment that only went bad when Shepard killed the Thorian. Cerberus's only involvement was in previously buying some Thorian Creepers for an entirely different experiment.

Two different colonies were killed off by the creepers, one from an ExoGeni experiment that went bad, the other from Cerberus.

And that changes that there's no evidence Cerberus instigated either... how?

The evidence is admittedly circumstantial.

[Dean_the_Young]

Moiaussi wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

[Not dismissing Cerberus as an ally out of hand on the basis that it's no worse than the Council is not equivalent to saying Cerberus is good and ideal, Moiaussi.

I have never advocated dismissing Cerberus as an ally.

Consider it not applied to you, then, with my apologies if I implied otherwise.

In one of my earlier posts I compared TIM with Stalin during WWII... a dictator who was arguably evil, but who was essential in defeating a greater threat.

There is one major difference though... WWII wasn't quite as uneven as the impending reaper war, and the Soviet Union at the time was much larger than Cerberus likely is.

The Soviet Union was also infinitely worse in action, deed, and intent than Cerberus has been and aspires to. Infact, the comparison between TIM and Stalin is a horrendous underplaying of Stalin's character and crimes.

Even so, Shep should have played hardball with Cerberus a little more based on the fact TIM needed Shep too, rather than just going along with anything and everything TIM suggests. Joker even defers to TIM over Shep and Shep doesn't challenge Joker on that.

About what, in particular? Not challenging, curious: as long as Shepard's alive, I don't recal TIM ever overriding Shepard against Joker. Unless you count Joker's intercom announcements about TIM wanting to speak with you for the next story mission?

[Jagri]

No the 360 was meant to be a light hearted pun on the gaming platform.

Modifié par Jagri, 07 décembre 2010 - 08:54 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Thorian Creepers were an ExoGeni experiment that only went bad when Shepard killed the Thorian. Cerberus's only involvement was in previously buying some Thorian Creepers for an entirely different experiment.

Two different colonies were killed off by the creepers, one from an ExoGeni experiment that went bad, the other from Cerberus.

Would you kindly find which colony Cerberus is responsible for? I'm not finding it.

The only mention I can find in the Mass Effect wiki is Nodacrux, which is the ExoGeni colony, and the Cerberus Super Soldier project lab you blow up.

And that changes that there's no evidence Cerberus instigated either... how?

The evidence is admittedly circumstantial.

'They were there after the attacks happened'?

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Zero versus at least two known attempts?

Colony of the Dead never had any suggestion that Cerberus found or used the Dragon's Teeth, only that they retreived husks after it already started,

 
Actually according to the wiki, you learn from a terminal that samples provided to cerberus caused the deaths. Do you have better information?

the Rachni escape was never intentional or actually went to an actual colony,

They failed to contain them. Negligence can be as or in some cases more dangerous than premeditated actions.
 

there's never been any indication that Cerberus triggered the Thresher Maws to attack the Akuze colony-

Is there a case in particular you were thinking of?

Actually, with Akuze there was evidence. Toombs claims to have been told so by Cerberus when they were experimenting on him and there is no reason to doubt him. Admiral Kahoku backs this up and was killed by Cerberus for investigating.

[Dean_the_Young]

Jagri wrote...

No the 360 was meant to be a light hearted pun on the gaming platform.

Alright. Plenty of people misuse the number, so I wasn't sure.

[Nozybidaj]

ME1 Cerberus was evil. ME2 Cerberus was the good guys. I imagine ME3 Cerberus will depend largely on who the lead writer is.

[Dean_the_Young]

Moiaussi wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Zero versus at least two known attempts?

Colony of the Dead never had any suggestion that Cerberus found or used the Dragon's Teeth, only that they retreived husks after it already started,

 
Actually according to the wiki, you learn from a terminal that samples provided to cerberus caused the deaths. Do you have better information?

The terminal that confirms Cerberus got samples of husks, but never says where the Dragon's Teeth came from?

the Rachni escape was never intentional or actually went to an actual colony,

They failed to contain them. Negligence can be as or in some cases more dangerous than premeditated actions.

...and that changes that they didn't hit a colony... how? Because that was the accusation.

Actually, with Akuze there was evidence. Toombs claims to have been told so by Cerberus when they were experimenting on him and there is no reason to doubt him. Admiral Kahoku backs this up and was killed by Cerberus for investigating.

Toombs says that the unit was lured to the nest of the Thresher Maws by Cerberus. Nothing is ever said about Cerberus pushing/inciting the Maws to attack the Akuze colony, whos disappearance was the basis for sending in the Alliance marines.