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[Riot Inducer]

Thargorichiban wrote...

I also find it very funny and ironic that in this game Cerberus suddenly cares about colonists... As opposed to the previous game where they conducted experiments on colonists and even wiped out an entire colony when they decided they wished to turn them into husks.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this, I wanted to ask TIM at the first meeting, "Soo...why do you suddenly give a damn about human colonists? Last I heard you were all for wiping them out in the name of 'science'." I actually just assumed they were pissed that someone was stealing all their test subjects and they couldn't figure out who.

[Felene]

TIM bring Shepard back for only one reason.

Acquiring more Reaper technology to advance Cerberus's place in the galaxy.

[glitter_guld]

Riot Inducer wrote...

Thargorichiban wrote...

I also find it very funny and ironic that in this game Cerberus suddenly cares about colonists... As opposed to the previous game where they conducted experiments on colonists and even wiped out an entire colony when they decided they wished to turn them into husks.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this, I wanted to ask TIM at the first meeting, "Soo...why do you suddenly give a damn about human colonists? Last I heard you were all for wiping them out in the name of 'science'." I actually just assumed they were pissed that someone was stealing all their test subjects and they couldn't figure out who.

Maybe because the information, which you got in ME1 was one-sided Alliance story, and you never heard the Cerberus' side of the news. You were dealing with the results of things, but you never knew what was really going on. Can you really trust the alliance command, from which you've been getting voice messages and "paragon" points over your terminal. I really don't know if I can trust them.

Modifié par glitter_guld, 25 février 2010 - 07:50 .

[Riot Inducer]

glitter_guld wrote...
Maybe because the information, which you got in ME1 was one-sided Alliance story, and you never heard the Cerberus' side of the news. You were dealing with the results of things, but you never knew what was really going on. Can you really trust the alliance command, from which you've been getting voice messages and "paragon" points over your terminal. I really don't know if I can trust them.

You do bring up a good point, Cerberus started out as an Alliance project and they've still got plenty of agents in almost every sector of the Alliance. Still there's very little you can do to make me trust Cerberus with their track record, no research is worth all the innocents they killed.

Also for the record the only people in the Alliance I really trust are Anderson and Hannah Shepard.

[Hurbster]

Ummm, are Cerburus evil ? As a Sole Survivor, I'd say definately. As any other background the answer is still the same, no matter how Bioware try and pretty them up for us.



I'd have liked the option to go nuts on being asked about Akuze, I believe someone posted a webcomic about that the other day.

[MantisN1nja]

Shinian2 wrote...

MantisN1nja wrote...

No, they are just misunderstood.

It's not their fault, they had a bad childhood.

Precisely, just show them some love and everything will be fine:wub:

[Rabid Rob3]

Does it really matter if Cerberus is evil? In ME1 on 2 or 3 occasions at least, I had to wipe out a Cerberus science experiment that had gone so wrong, it literally threatened every living thing in the Galaxy. Seriously, Cerberus is so sloppy with their evil science experiments that eventually they will kill everyone, and for that reason alone I never ever trusted them and destroying Cerberus is very high on my list, they pose the same level of threat to all life in the galaxy as the Reapers. It was clear to me right from the start of talking to the new Normandy's crew that they were hand picked and carefully groomed "good guy" Cerberus agents who had no real clue of the kinds of deadly dangerous things I had, personally, seen Cerberus do. I deliberately seduced Miranda for the express purpose of isolating her from TIM, and I even completed the Cerberus missions in their favor (when a choice was given) solely to ingratiate myself into the Cerberus framework before I ultimately dismantle it. Also, I'm pretty much still convinced there has to be a bomb somewhere in my new cyber body, even though Miranda, Moridan, and Dr. Chokwas seem to give me a clean bill of health. So ultimately it doesn't matter if you are Paragon or Renegade, Cerberus' sloppy science methods which threaten all life in the galaxy, over and over, just make them too unreliable.

[rpgchuck]

glitter_guld wrote...

Why Cerberus is so Evil? From what we know, Cerberus was formerly part of the Alliance military, but which has now gone rogue. Maybe that is why. In Mass Effect 1, we had to infiltrate a handful of their facilities, where they presumably were doing some experiments. So what? How they are more evil than Udina and his Alliance, or Krogans, Assari commandos, Turians, Shadow Broker.

It just feels that Shepard would rather ask batarian slavers for help than Cerberus...

Well, let's see: 

In Mass Effect they led a group of Alliance marines into an ambush, then murdered an Admiral to keep their operations secret. 

In ME 2, they wanted to save a facility that ran off liquified people.

Yep, I'd say that's evil. 

[Madecologist]

Hurbster wrote...

Ummm, are Cerburus evil ? As a Sole Survivor, I'd say definately. As any other background the answer is still the same, no matter how Bioware try and pretty them up for us.

I'd have liked the option to go nuts on being asked about Akuze, I believe someone posted a webcomic about that the other day.

I don't think Bioware is prettying them up for us. I think TIM is prettying them up for Shepard. This new and improved Cerberus we see in ME2 is not a smokescreen from the designers to the players. I totally expect Bioware is laughing their asses off at people who bought the act and think Cerberus is not so bad afterall.

All of it is TIM trying to create an image to Shepard to gain his loyalty. We are being manipulated, and TIM is the instrument of said manipulation. Martin Sheen deserves an Oscar for making people buy Cerberus is not so bad afterall.

I think they are a sinister group because in the first game, the second novel and the synopsis of the third novel does nothing to hide that fact. The only place Cerberus ever looked not too bad is through Mirands and in ME2 towards Shepard. Even then, you can still kinda of see the darker group that they are.

[The BS Police]

I swear I would not want to know alot of people here if this was Germany between 1933 and 1945.

Modifié par The BS Police, 25 février 2010 - 08:11 .

[glitter_guld]

rpgchuck wrote...

glitter_guld wrote...

Why Cerberus is so Evil? From what we know, Cerberus was formerly part of the Alliance military, but which has now gone rogue. Maybe that is why. In Mass Effect 1, we had to infiltrate a handful of their facilities, where they presumably were doing some experiments. So what? How they are more evil than Udina and his Alliance, or Krogans, Assari commandos, Turians, Shadow Broker.

It just feels that Shepard would rather ask batarian slavers for help than Cerberus...

Well, let's see: 

In Mass Effect they led a group of Alliance marines into an ambush, then murdered an Admiral to keep their operations secret. 

In ME 2, they wanted to save a facility that ran off liquified people.

Yep, I'd say that's evil. 

Great, so they did it out of sheer evilness and without any reason, just for the fun of torture. This is so not like Cerberus that we see in ME2. That we don't know their true reasons doesn't justify their actions, but neither makes them stupid killers and terrorists, I think.

[Kalfear]

glitter_guld wrote...

Why Cerberus is so Evil? From what we know, Cerberus was formerly part of the Alliance military, but which has now gone rogue. Maybe that is why. In Mass Effect 1, we had to infiltrate a handful of their facilities, where they presumably were doing some experiments. So what? How they are more evil than Udina and his Alliance, or Krogans, Assari commandos, Turians, Shadow Broker.

It just feels that Shepard would rather ask batarian slavers for help than Cerberus...

Yes cerberus is really evil, but this one of my newest complaints about ME2.

Cerberus doesnt come off as that evil corp, win at all costs, like it did  in ME1.
In ME1 you hated (or loved I guess) Cerberus cause of how far they would go to meet their agenda.
You dont see that in ME2. Its hinted at here and there but nothing solid and your never really forced to make that albinding morale choice.

Even at the end of game (spoiler section so no whining), save or blow up ship. Fact is saving ship could deliver great rewards and insight and its not evil to keep it, no matter how you spin the morality! I know I plan to keep ship on my next 2 play throughs because ITS THE SMART THING TO DO! 

Now if there was something on ship that made it life or death to destroy ship, thats a different story but thats not there either. Your just suppose to follow the linear path of good-bad choices and not think for yourself!

Cerberus was much more interesting in ME1

[Madecologist]

Again, I still think Cerberus is just as evil. What we see in ME2 is an elaborate TIM ploy to manipulate Shepard. Look at the crew of the new Normandy? They are still the same snakes as before. They just put a dress on for Shepard.

Edit - Casey.. I know you are laughing........ .
Aslo what I mean by the crew of the Normandy is that they seem like good people because TIM hand picked them to be so, so Shepard feels at ease and begins to think Cerberus is not all that bad. They too probably don't know the truth and are being used to sway Shepard.

Modifié par Madecologist, 25 février 2010 - 08:19 .

[Barquiel]

The Normandy crew isn't evil (I think TIM hand-picked moderates); but TIM? yes

It's a shame that Kelly isn't the boss
"I love asari, quarians, salarians, collectors..."

[Joshua Hawkeye]

THey are 'the End justify ANY means'. And that end is securing humanity's place as the most powerfull race in the galaxy. Questionable end. And some of those means don't go well with some of my principles either.

In ME1 you hated (or loved I guess) Cerberus cause of how far they would
go to meet their agenda.

They go very far. They ressurected you, and then continiously lure you into collector ambushes!

Modifié par Joshua Hawkeye, 25 février 2010 - 08:21 .

[Kalfear]

Arcian wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Even at the end of game (spoiler section so no whining), save or blow up ship. Fact is saving ship could deliver great rewards and insight and its not evil to keep it, no matter how you spin the morality! I know I plan to keep ship on my next 2 play throughs because ITS THE SMART THING TO DO!

Problem with the Renegade ending is that you gamble everything on
trusting TIM, who has shown himself to be a viciously manipulative
bastard. Even if the knowledge can help you defeat the Reapers, don't expect TIM to relinquish his hold over that base when they are gone.

See but they dont really come out and say that or even imply that!

You assume that based on what you learned in ME1 and books. Nothing in ME2 really drives that assumpsion home.

In ME2 you simply need to decide if blowing up ship gives victims some level of revenge? Nothing more. TIM really not involved unless you decide to blow it up. Only then does he try to influence the out come

[glitter_guld]

Madecologist wrote...

Again, I still think Cerberus is just as evil. What we see in ME2 is an elaborate TIM ploy to manipulate Shepard. Look at the crew of the new Normandy? They are still the same snakes as before. They just put a dress on for Shepard.

Edit - Casey.. I know you are laughing........ .
Aslo what I mean by the crew of the Normandy is that they seem like good people because TIM hand picked them to be so, so Shepard feels at ease and begins to think Cerberus is not all that bad. They too probably don't know the truth and are being used to sway Shepard.

That's a conspiracy plot.

[Sharn01]

Others have gone over some fo the stuff Cerberus has done, I will add a few more that they missed and probably one of their biggest ones in the death toll.



Cerberus routinely caused industrial accident's at various colonies, going to far as blowing up Element Zero freighter's in orbit of the colonies to explose the population. The largest colony this happend to was Yandoa.



These caused million's of deaths, and most of the survivor's suffered from severe tumor's, with almost all the children of the survivor's being born with birth defect's, all for the sake of trying to get more biotic children. Yandoa for instance is estimated to have had possibly million's of colonist's, after all the death's and pain caused by Cerberus, 37 children where born healthy and with biotic's.



This does not even count the colonies wiped out in thresher maw experiment's or the many assassination's you hear about, and I would bet money that what we know Cerberus has done is just the tip of the iceberg. All the events listed by myself and other's in this thread are just the crimes that are common knowledge that Cerberus has commited, anything they successfully got away with is unknown, and if we know every thing they have done, they would be a pretty incompetent group.

[Collider]

A little poll for you all about Cerberus.

http://social.biowar...908/polls/2654/

[Behindyounow]

Yeah they're evil, but so is the council and the Alliance.



But all of their evil combined is nothing compared to the reapers. So that makes them the good guys.

[Vamp44]

I like me some good ol' Cerberus and TIM aid.

[lost lupus]

people always focus on the bad.......... release the good



they revived shepard

distroyed the collectors

represent humanitys and the galaxies best chance of defeating the reapers RE: they are the only group doing anything about it (while everyone else is sitting around twiddling their thumbs)

look at all the people they employ seriously if you take away cerebrus theres alot of people on alliance unemployemnt line

their on the cutting edge of medicine, starship's and weaponary



just remember the makers of medi-gel broke a few laws to make the magic live through anything gel!

[Jaylarids]

The council or the Alliance isn't evil, just remember Hanlon's razor, "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Essentially they are incompotent, or stupid.

Cerberus on the other hand is incompotent, stupid and evil.

[Remaix]

Behindyounow wrote...

Yeah they're evil, but so is the council and the Alliance.

But all of their evil combined is nothing compared to the reapers. So that makes them the good guys.

...I'm sorry, what?