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Quarians, Geth, Tali, Legion

Débuté par Guest_Darht Jayder_* , févr. 25 2010 05:43

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#1
Guest_Darht Jayder_*
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:43

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There probably is a thread or several on this but I have to comment on the implausibility of this story line adn how much it irritates me.

In ME1,  Tali makes hereself quite clear about being anti-geth.  She seems quite comfortable with eradicating their presence from the galaxy.  Further to this, in her loyalty quest she is accused of putting the flotilla in danger by sending active Geth parts.  She is innocent of course but her father is found to have been activating Geth for the purpose of developing weapons to destroy them.  She is very upset at her father's betrayal even though she spares him the post mordem backlash but is horrified at the prospect that she would put the Flotilla in danger.

Given her character, hatred of the Geth, and unwillingness to put the flotilla in danger, she would NEVER work together with Legion.  Not only is there no backlash against Shepard for activating him but Tali of all people accept it without Question.  Working with an active Geth directly puts the Quarian race in danger despite her insistance she would never do that.  Furthermore, Legion is caught actually scanning her omnitool to send info to the Geth.  During my playthrough, Shepard basically broke up the fight with a "can't we all just get along" attitude and convinced Legion not to send the info.  Tali even thanks Legion for agreeing to this and believes him.....SHE THANKS HIM???Posted Image.  Since when would any of these people trust a Geth?  Especially Tali.

Personally, I thik Tali should have a abandoned the mission in disgust at Shepard or killed Legion during the argument or alternatively and my favourite option, Legion should have killed Tali in self defence or the final option would have been for Shepard to side with one or the other and kill one of them.  Eitherway, neither of these two squadmates/mortal enemies should work together.

any thoughts?

#2
The Angry One
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:46

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Posted Image

#3
Strafbomber
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:47

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Legion is assuming direct control =)

#4
RattleSnake08
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:47

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If the choice was to either work together or die .. I am going to side on working together

#5
NuclearBuddha
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:49

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Maybe she's just more open-minded than you think.

#6
Sockwolf
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:50

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It's a hard one to reconcile. For me it pitted one of my favourite squadmates against my LI. As the player, it's actually quite hard to pick sides. The quarians were in the wrong initially, but they're now reaping what they sown by being banished from their homeworld.
Admiral vas Quib Quib shows that there are quarians who regret the initial hostility against the geth and would like to fight for peace. I like to believe Tali hasn't fully made her mind up yet. Bioware has been known for character development, and Tali is no exception.
I don't find it a huge stretch that seeing what her father did aboard the Alorai along with Paragon Shep's suggestion that the quarians try to find an alternative to war has opened her mind somewhat. She hasn't exactly done a 180 on her stance. Her loyalty really does hinge on that particular argument and how Shep handles it. She doesn't exactly sound comfortable thanking Legion. I just don't think she really knows what to do with him. No quarian has been able to speak to the geth face to optic since they went sentient.

Modifié par Sockwolf, 25 février 2010 - 05:51 .

#7
CajunRexShepard
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:52

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They both were convinced of the necessity to drop old hatreds because if the Collectors/Reapers win, then nobody would be left to argue about anyway... plus, it's fairly obvious that both Tali and Legion have borderline obsessions with Shepard and are quite easily convinced (by him) to follow him no matter WHO else is on the team. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and all. Tali's pilgrimage gift was also geth related, but during that quest she expressed a desire to see how they've changed, or grown on their own, not just eradicate them all. Then you find out the geth you fought in ME1 were not examples of how all geth think at all, and it further clouds things. Information is the best weapon to combat prejudicial hatred, and they both get a boatload of it by being in contact with one another, even if Shepard has to be the babysitter/referee...

#8
marshalleck
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:52

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If there's one thing in this thread I can agree with, it's that Tali and Legion needed more interaction. The rest is rubbish.

#9
Guest_Darht Jayder_*
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:52

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NuclearBuddha wrote...

Maybe she's just more open-minded than you think.

Impossible.  she says she would never put the flotilla in danger, yet that is exactly what she does by working with Legion.  Doesn't make sense. 

#10
Krajj54
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:52

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How many times do you think Tali got the chance to converse with the Geth before the events of ME2? Hell, I never thought of them as much more than "bad things that must be shot in their flashlight heads" through all of ME1 and most of ME2. That is, until Legion came along.



#11
Jeremy Winston
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:52

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Tali, in ME1 is very interested in the Geth... she's dying to understand how they've evolved on their own. I don't see her particularly as completely anti-geth.



At the same time, I think they muddled around with the universe between ME1 and ME2, so you have to take any personality changes in regards to the new universe with a grain of salt.



There is YouTube video out there that shows Tali's reaction if you bring Legion on her recruitment mission. That might be more of the response you were expecting.



I did expect some dialog or SOMETHING with Tali when Legion came aboard. Even Jacob made a comment about it.

#12
marshalleck
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:54

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Darht Jayder wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Maybe she's just more open-minded than you think.

Impossible.   

  Clearly you are wrong, as evidenced by the game.

#13
epoch_
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:56

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NuclearBuddha wrote...

she's just more open-minded than you think.


#14
Guest_Darht Jayder_*
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:57

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marshalleck wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Maybe she's just more open-minded than you think.

Impossible.   

  Clearly you are wrong, as evidenced by the game.

Then for the sake of story consistency, she better have another trial in ME3 and be exiled.  Even if they save the galaxy from the reapers, working alongside a hated enemy would get her exiled from the flotilla for sure.  I would be surprised if the entire admiralty board would do a complete 180 from this standpoint.

#15
Mikenator700
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:58

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Jeremy Winston wrote...

Tali, in ME1 is very interested in the Geth... she's dying to understand how they've evolved on their own. I don't see her particularly as completely anti-geth.

At the same time, I think they muddled around with the universe between ME1 and ME2, so you have to take any personality changes in regards to the new universe with a grain of salt.

There is YouTube video out there that shows Tali's reaction if you bring Legion on her recruitment mission. That might be more of the response you were expecting.

I did expect some dialog or SOMETHING with Tali when Legion came aboard. Even Jacob made a comment about it.

Jacob: Tali's gonna freak when she hears about this.

And she doesn't even notice until you either blow up the station or free the heretics.
Once again another missed attempt at some ground-breaking squadie/squadie development

#16
Beerfish
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:58

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I think Tali could conceivably go bonkers in the next ME and try to resume her fathers work.

#17
rabbitchannel
Posté 25 février 2010 - 05:59

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It's true but I'm not sure what is more believable. That, or Paragon-ing Zaeed's wasted 20 years away. Seriously, if some just cost me 20 years of my life I'd be murderous.

#18
marshalleck
Posté 25 février 2010 - 06:02

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Darht Jayder wrote...

Then for the sake of story consistency, she better have another trial in ME3 and be exiled.  Even if they save the galaxy from the reapers, working alongside a hated enemy would get her exiled from the flotilla for sure.  I would be surprised if the entire admiralty board would do a complete 180 from this standpoint.


She's not in charge of the mission. She is transferred to Shepard's command. Who Tali has to work with on the mission is Shepard's decision, not hers. And she's never tasked with doing anything directly against the interests of the flotilla. She hasn't done anything treasonous.

#19
Guest_Darht Jayder_*
Posté 25 février 2010 - 06:03

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rab****annel wrote...

It's true but I'm not sure what is more believable. That, or Paragon-ing Zaeed's wasted 20 years away. Seriously, if some just cost me 20 years of my life I'd be murderous.

Another inconsistency that doesn't make sense.  Still not as big as the Tali/Legion one to me.

#20
Guest_Darht Jayder_*
Posté 25 février 2010 - 06:04

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marshalleck wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...

Then for the sake of story consistency, she better have another trial in ME3 and be exiled.  Even if they save the galaxy from the reapers, working alongside a hated enemy would get her exiled from the flotilla for sure.  I would be surprised if the entire admiralty board would do a complete 180 from this standpoint.


She's not in charge of the mission. She is transferred to Shepard's command. Who Tali has to work with on the mission is Shepard's decision, not hers. And she's never tasked with doing anything directly against the interests of the flotilla. She hasn't done anything treasonous.

Wrong.  She could still quit.  She is not forced to work for Shepard.  And she is totally putting the flotilla at risk.  Legion already tried to scan her omnitool and send info to the Geth.  Totally treasonous.

#21
Jeremy Winston
Posté 25 février 2010 - 06:04

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Beerfish wrote...

I think Tali could conceivably go bonkers in the next ME and try to resume her fathers work.


No need.  Xen has already done it.

#22
Kyero
Posté 25 février 2010 - 06:04

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until legion everyone thought geth were just mindless killing machines that worshiped the reapers. Legion opened a whole new path that quarians and geth can be at peace.



or end up fighting a pointless blood bath war.

#23
marshalleck
Posté 25 février 2010 - 06:05

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Darht Jayder wrote...

Wrong.  She could still quit.  She is not forced to work for Shepard.  And she is totally putting the flotilla at risk.  Legion already tried to scan her omnitool and send info to the Geth.  Totally treasonous.


Not at all. Legion is the transgressor there, not Tali.

#24
Beerfish
Posté 25 février 2010 - 06:06

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Jeremy Winston wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

I think Tali could conceivably go bonkers in the next ME and try to resume her fathers work.


No need.  Xen has already done it.


Correct, I forgot about Xen.  She will have a part to play in the next game.

#25
Guest_Darht Jayder_*
Posté 25 février 2010 - 06:09

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marshalleck wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...

Wrong.  She could still quit.  She is not forced to work for Shepard.  And she is totally putting the flotilla at risk.  Legion already tried to scan her omnitool and send info to the Geth.  Totally treasonous.


Not at all. Legion is the transgressor there, not Tali.

Doesn't matter if he is the transgressor......I am not saying it is Tali's fault that he scanned her omnitool.  But she totally is putting herself and the flotilla at risk by working with him.  Centuries of hate and mistrust aren't erased because shepard comes along and says let's all work together, hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
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