91 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

marshalleck wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...

Wrong.  She could still quit.  She is not forced to work for Shepard.  And she is totally putting the flotilla at risk.  Legion already tried to scan her omnitool and send info to the Geth.  Totally treasonous.

Not at all. Legion is the transgressor there, not Tali.

I found that by FAR the most difficult npc showdown to even think about not being in favor of one over the other.  Whether Paragon or Renegade I would immediately blast Legion and put his debris in the garbage compactor if he was caught scanning Talis Omni tool.  I sided with her on the 1st play through and as a result lost legion at the end.  I have to totally force myself to not take sides in that conflict to maintain loyalties.

[marshalleck]

Darht Jayder wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...

Wrong.  She could still quit.  She is not forced to work for Shepard.  And she is totally putting the flotilla at risk.  Legion already tried to scan her omnitool and send info to the Geth.  Totally treasonous.

Not at all. Legion is the transgressor there, not Tali.

Doesn't matter if he is the transgressor......I am not saying it is Tali's fault that he scanned her omnitool.  But she totally is putting herself and the flotilla at risk by working with him.  Centuries of hate and mistrust aren't erased because shepard comes along and says let's all work together, hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

That's not treason. You used the word treason, so I expect her "crime" to fit the definition. It does not. There's no treason on her part.

[Madecologist]

I agree, more Tali and Legion interaction was needed. That said, Tali hates Geths but she is not as hell bent as Xen or Rael and his friend (the other Admiral voiced by Loghain). Heck when the admirals speak of war she is objects to it. Tali's indecisive nature is seen in her loyalty mission. Since you in one dialogue can suggest both taking back the home world AND finding a new home (the game lets you switch your opinion), in both cases she has an objection. Also, if you do take Legion to her recruit mission you see her shoot at it.

So why does she 'give it a chance' and still join Shepard. Tali is loyal to Shepard. Very much so. You know the old saying, a true friend help you bury the body. This is what Tali is. Shepard shows up working for Cerberus and a Geth in tow. She is willing to put her own opinions to the side -for- Shepard. It is funny people have such a hard time to see that level of loyalty from a friend, but Tali has it for Shepard.

Modifié par Madecologist, 25 février 2010 - 06:18 .

[marshalleck]

Darht Jayder wrote...

How is sending small parts that could theoretically be reactivated into geth be treason, but actively working alongside a geth who has already once tried to send info about the Quarians that could possibly destroy their entire race not treason by Quarian standards?

What Tali was doing for her father was not treason, did you not play the game? Did you somehow miss that the charges against her were trumped up BS and nothing more than a political charade by the Admirals to hash out their arguments? Tali never did anything treasonous.

[RattleSnake08]

Madecologist wrote...

I agree, more Tali and Legion interaction was needed. That said, Tali hates Geths but she is not as hell bent as Xen or Rael and his friend (the other Admiral voiced by Loghain). Heck when the admiral speak of war she is objects to it. Also if you do take Legion to her recruit mission you see her shoot at it.
So why does she 'give it a chance' and still join Shepard. Tali is loyal to Shepard. Very much so. You know the old saying, a true friend help you bury the body. This is what Tali is. Shepard shows up working for Cerberus and a Geth in tow. She is willing to put her own opinions to the side -for- Shepard. It is funny people have such a hard time to see that level of loyalty from a friend.

Where does she do this at?  I must have missed that part of the mission.

[The Angry One]

Legion is perfectly within his rights to obtain and send data to his people concerning a potential invasion.
The Quarians are the ones being hostile here, Legion has a right and a duty to do what he does, to say otherwise is bias.

Darht Jayder wrote...

How is sending small parts that could theoretically be reactivated into geth be treason, but actively working alongside a geth who has already once tried to send info about the Quarians that could possibly destroy their entire race not treason by Quarian standards?

Because she's being ordered to by her commanding officer. Executive responsibility lies with Shepard, and since Shep isn't a Quarian.. tough!

[Kyria Nyriese]

In ME Tali was spouting what she had been taught her entire life, also in ME she is exposed to more things than most people think about. While she still doesn't see the Geth as equals, there is always the possibility of you changing her mind (the scene in ME 2 for example). She is young, her hatreds are her father's hatreds. I think seeing what became of her father could be a very eye opening experience. She even knows that what he did was wrong.

[Jeremy Winston]

Legion isn't communicating to anyone, unless EDI lets him. So, the risk is minimized to some level.

[Gage1990]

Darht Jayder wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Maybe she's just more open-minded than you think.

Impossible.  she says she would never put the flotilla in danger, yet that is exactly what she does by working with Legion.  Doesn't make sense. 

I dont see how working with a geth puts the flotilla in danger

[Madecologist]

Which part? Her objecting to the war. Happens when she speaks to the female admiral that is a friend of her family. She shooting at Legion only happens if you have Legion with you on her recruitment mission. You can see her indecisive nature in serveral moments in the Loyalty mission.

As for it not making sense if your Shepard was an ass. I agree. ME2 Tali was written to have loyalty/feelings for Shepard. Which only makes sense if you were neutral or nice to her. The game seems to impose this Tali on everyone. This is not a flaw in the character, since it does make sense for all the other Shepards. This is a flaw in Bioware making her act off of one model only. Which is not fair for someone that chose to burn her. It makes her appear like a weird kid (as apposed to a loyal friend). It seems everyone gets the neutral/well treated Tali.

Modifié par Madecologist, 25 février 2010 - 06:26 .

[The Angry One]

Darht Jayder wrote...

Being ordered to or not by an officer she is voluntarily loyal to doesn't mean she would do it.  If anything he would lose her loyalty by asking her to do that.

She is officially transferred to Shep's command by the Quarian Admiralty. Voluntary or not, Shep is her commanding officer.
And she does lose loyalty if you don't drill into her stupid head that there are more important things than this so what's the problem?

[NuclearBuddha]

Darht Jayder wrote...

However her loyalty is suspect too by story standards.  In ME1, I treated her like crap and didn't let her take the info for her pilgrimage.  I also treated her crappy when I first found her in Me2 at Freedom's progress and gave Veetor to the Illusive man.  Now all of a sudden she has ffelings for Shepard and is so loyal she will work with Geth?  Give me a break.

Sounds like you've got an axe to grind anyway, pal.  Why inflict this on us?

[The Angry One]

Darht Jayder wrote...

He gets caught scanning her omnitool and tries to send the info to the Geth.

That only puts the flotilla in danger if they decide to attack the Geth which is likely going to get them all killed either way.

[Gage1990]

Darht Jayder wrote...

Gage1990 wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Maybe she's just more open-minded than you think.

Impossible.  she says she would never put the flotilla in danger, yet that is exactly what she does by working with Legion.  Doesn't make sense. 

I dont see how working with a geth puts the flotilla in danger

He gets caught scanning her omnitool and tries to send the info to the Geth.

I always stop him, is there a way not to

[Madecologist]

The problem here is not that Tali is showing blind faith to Shepard. It is that Tali is showing blind faith to -your- Shepard. To which I agree. She shouldn't. Doesn't change the fact it does make sense in other people's game.

So your complaint should not be about Tali's behaviour itself. But that they did not give her an alternative personality reaction for your outcome of ME1.

Modifié par Madecologist, 25 février 2010 - 06:43 .

[The Angry One]

Darht Jayder wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Darht Jayder wrote...

He gets caught scanning her omnitool and tries to send the info to the Geth.

That only puts the flotilla in danger if they decide to attack the Geth which is likely going to get them all killed either way.

Puts the flotilla in danger because the Geth could use the info to design weapons or find weaknesses to exploit if they decided to attack the flotilla and get rid of their enemy.

The flotilla is made up of ancient ships and garbage scows that is only formidable due to sheer numbers.
There's no weakness to  be found.