91 réponses à ce sujet

[Gill Kaiser]

Of course Tali starts off hating the geth and mistrusting Legion. In fact, if you take Legion to Tali's recruitment mission, she shoots at him unless you intervene. However, she trusts Shepard more than she distrusts Legion. She's a reasonable person, and Legion behaves perfectly nicely towards the entire crew, doing nothing to promote suspicion until he scans Tali's omnitool. At that point she does come into conflict with Legion, but again the situation is defused by Shepard.

Seems perfectly plausible to me. It's not like Tali's a zealot.

[CajunRexShepard]

The whole 'gathering info to destroy the quarians' seems a bit forced. First off, they already *have* all the info on the quarians they need, they've kept every record of every conversation since their 'awakening'.



Second, they still refer to the Quarians as 'creators' and go so far as to infer that they are doing nothing more than acting as keepers for their homeworld, an inference that they in fact would not mind sharing or ceding the planet back to them should they come back in peace.



Third- he is a machine designed to gather all information he possibly can on organics (we listen and watch)... so the omni-tool scanning episode may have been nothing more than incessant (or in his case programmed in) curiosity, almost on a child-like level. I sensed no ill intent from him, even when he figured out what was contained on the tool. He just thought his people ought to know, and though I love the quarians and their backstory, I can't fault him for that. It is a potential threat that deserved dissemination.



Both sides still have far to go... but by making these two outspoken members of each species work together, I think it was a dev point to make in showing even the oldest wounds can be healed if someone is open minded enough... I hope it actually isn't that socio-political and the scope of that scene is limited to the universe it is written from, but the parallel is too close to issues in the real world to simply ignore.

[FataliTensei]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Maybe she's just more open-minded than you think.

That and it's been 2 years since the first Mass Effect, Tali probably grew up in the mean time, got more mature and better at handling difficult situations

[Jeremy Winston]

Darht Jayder wrote...

CajunRexShepard wrote...

Both sides still have far to go... but by making these two outspoken members of each species work together, I think it was a dev point to make in showing even the oldest wounds can be healed if someone is open minded enough... I hope it actually isn't that socio-political and the scope of that scene is limited to the universe it is written from, but the parallel is too close to issues in the real world to simply ignore.

I totally understand it is a game with finite possibilities and programming and time etc......but that is the fastest healing of several centuries old wounds I have ever seen.

This is Tali.  Not the Quarians overall.  She has always been consumed  by curiosity.  Yes, her mindset was that they needed to find a way to beat the Geth, but she's also one of the Quarian's best engineers. 

Like someone said, I don't see her as a zealot, and while having her be THIS accepting is pushing the envelope, it could have been solved by a little more dialog.

Overall, I'm  willing to accept it.

[Madecologist]

Tali's reactions are fine. Makes a lot of sense in several instances of Shepard.

I still think Legion on the Flotilla was a little hamfisted. Not just Tali, but everyone's reaction. It starts off logically and then suddenly Shepard uses his Red/Bluetm godlike powers and it is all okay. It great for giggles, just hard to swallow seriously.

[Jeremy Winston]

Yeah.. but due to time/dialog constraints a lot of the things stretch it a bit.



1) Grunt just "woke up." Why is he willing to follow you? Because he's got nothing better to do?

2) Mighty convenient that Thane needs to redeem himself. If he didn't why would he come with us?

3) Jack should have gone ballistic on the Normandy. She's the ultimate in a chaotic neutral character. Why did she sign up?



I don't intend on getting into a discussion on these.. agree or not.. these are just examples.. I'm sure you all have your own set.

[Exile Isan]

I'd like to point out that Legion and Tali (during the confrontation scene) are both only trying to protect their people and a paraShep can say as much. The Geth, according to Legion are willing to negotiate, the quarians (or at least some of them) are not. Legion was going to warn the other geth that the "creators" were looking for ways to attack them (referring to Rael's experiments), which would in turn have the geth attack the quarians Tali wants to stop that but so does Legion in a sense. Neither really want to go to war, but are willing to do so to protect their people. And as Shep can point out to Tali that her father's experiments were wrong, and if they had been human (or any other race in my Shep's case) she would be telling the Alliance about it (but nobody would care about the geth except possibly Shepard and Legion so...)  The geth are sapient beings, machines or not.

However, I do think that Kal'Reegar and paraShepard are right... if they throw the Flotilla at the geth all they'll get back is scrap metal and someday the quarians and the geth are both going to have to stop fighting this war. Might as well start with Tali and Legion.

I will state, however, that I was disappointed that there was no conversation with Tali after you either activate or give Legion over to Cereberus.

[mopotter]

SuperZombieChow wrote...

There should have been more interactions between the two, but the way I see it, Tali's loyalty mission shows her that the conflict with the geth is not as black and white as she thought it was. Her father, one of the "good guys", was effectively doing the same thing she condemned Cerberus for doing in the first game. Even while she defends the Quarian anti-geth mentality during her mission you can see her indecision, that she only half believes what she is saying.

I totally agree that she shouldn't have just forgotten about Shepard being a jerk to her in the first game, though. She and Garrus ought to both remember how they were treated in the first game.

I agree I wanted to talk to her before I brought Legion into the mix.  I would have liked to talk to her after the trial about what the different admirals have to say.  

The other thing I noticed is that the Quarians themselves have different viewpoints about the geith.  Zaal'Koris vas Qwip Qwip and his group wants to find a different world and mentioned the Geith being their children.  So I could see Tali starting to get different view points and changing her ideas about the geith.  I always tell them the war with the Reapers is far more important than the Geith and tell Qwip Quip to keep up the fight for peace.   

But I did think the confrontation was too abrupt.  I kept expecting to hear she wanted to talk to Shepard as soon as I activated him.

[Sockwolf]

Like my Shepard would have killed Zaeed out right on his loyalty mission right after he caused the plant to go up in flames.

My Shep would've left him under that debris. Sadly sometimes the story is told for us.



Legion is the best option the quarians have to avoid conflict with the geth. He is a geth they can actually converse and reason with. He is the only geth hardware platform equipped to do such a thing. If Tali had actually blasted him away, you'd probably get people posting that she was stupid for ruining the only chance her people had at a peaceful resolution.



And that's not even going into the full trust Tali has for Shepard. Sure, your Shep might've treated her like crap, which makes it seem odd to you, but I'm guessing the majority of everyone else, even if they weren't full Talimancers would've at least been nice to her. There's no reason not to be unless you're playing Shepard as a jerk. So for most of us the story comes together a bit easier.



Having just finished Ascension and learning what Cerberus did to the Migrant Fleet, I perfectly understand Tali's hatred toward Cerberus, but as she's pointed out herself. She's working with Shep, not Cerberus.

[SimonTheFrog]

As i stated somewhere else already, it feels as if the writers of ME added the "nice" Geth (i.e. Legion) without REALLY thinking about the consequences. Like the decision to make that squadmate came very late and a bit forced.



No proof of course, but many open questions and inconsistencies are pointing that way. The very strange *shoulder* shrug of Tali about having a friendly Geth aboard included...



She's be fighting and hating those things all her life and now they eat lunch together and all they have is a quick argument about sending omnitool data?



What about talks about quarian-geth relationships?? what about "Shepard! we have the enemy on the ship!!!", what about finally building a home on quarian homeworld if the Geth are suddenly friendly??



I really enjoy Legions dialogs and all that, but after playing ME1 and talking about the geth with Tali a lot, this is cannot be taken seriously as one coherent universe. It's just a b-movie type sci-fi with a sloppy background and plot. Entertaining, sure, but nothing more.

[Geth Knight]

Maybe ME3 will have the repercustions of good geth. I didn't find it added, and the bit about Legion being taken onto the floatilla during Tali's trial, just seems like it was added for giggles. BW was probablly thinking that everyone would get Tali's Loyalty mission out of the way before going for the IFF. Therefor you really couldn't take Legion with you. They then realized "Hey lets add some funny part right here for those who decide to do things diffrently"

[Jeremy Winston]

Or.. more likely someone said, "Uh oh. What IF..."

Modifié par Jeremy Winston, 25 février 2010 - 09:07 .

[Geth Knight]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Or.. more likely someone said, "Uh oh. What IF..."

Yea that too. It probably went like this:

"Um....I just realized something. What if someone waited to recruit Tali after getting Legion?"

"Don't be silly. Who would do that? It screws up the whole story."

"Well, yea. Obviously, but just what if....?"

"Ok, ok. We'll just add some funny line about bringing a geth onto the floatilla. Then we can never mention it again. I'm sure no one will question how out of place it all is."

"Yea, you're probably right."