8563 réponses à ce sujet

[MaxQuartiroli]

Hello Sam...

BTW.. I love Anora !

[Liso66]

shedevil3001 wrote...



i hate to throw this card but i'm gonna your from usa so you learned about the american civil war well any living person that was forced into slavery from then would kill loghain for his part in selling elves into slavery no matter how he tried to justify himself or his actions he even says it himself he was wrong about alot of things and i agree with him especially on the slavery thing that is unforgivible alone without all the other betrayals and as for alistair well yes he is weird but it add to his character but he is still a good man which at the end if you have him marry anora even she says that been a grey warden to him is about the highest honor anyone can have it means a great deal to him and making loghain a grey warden is betraying everything it stands for as far as alistair is concerned so its understandible how he reacts no one says its a perfect solution but with war theres always casualties in my game loghain is among the casualties

I never disagreed that his feelings were wrong..  I however can see things through other venues and logic. Supporting Alistair is not "wrong" but either are some of the other scenarios, as they make sense as well. 

As for the US and Slavery?  I wasn't there.   LOL

[Liso66]

"Waves to Sir Samcelot"

[shedevil3001]

i didnt like anora she used my warden to get the throne manipulated her and shes to much like her father i wouldnt trust her as far as i could throw her at least alistair didnt want to be king which is why i chose him as he didnt care about having power and he would do great things with the help of my fhn at his side helping him to rule fairly

[MoSa09]

*waves back at Shedevil, Max and Twiggles*

[Curlain]

shedevil3001 wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

shedevil3001 wrote...

see i dont agree though my main character is a hfn and i just cant trust loghain no matter what hes to treacherous look how he manipulated maric and poor maric felt like an empty shell of a man because of loghain at least with alistair he cares about the people and want to try to save everyone if he can that and my warden wouldnt have to sleep with a sword under her pillow like she would if loghain was in camp

Ah but see...  Loghain is loyal to his causes.  He truly felt he was doing what was best for his country that he helped free 20 years prior.  After living under the Orliasian rule and being treated like slaves in your own country for a nearly a centry. You do not think Loghain has a right to his own fears?

All is fair in love and war..  Also..  Alistair was only a GW for 6mo.. prior to your own joining. It is not like he was affiliated for years and years.  His attachment to Duncan was kind of weird if you ask me. He was even kept out of the battles with the GW's due to his birth right..  Also. if you take Loghain to RtO.. you find out lots of interesting things. 

i hate to throw this card but i'm gonna your from usa so you learned about the american civil war well any living person that was forced into slavery from then would kill loghain for his part in selling elves into slavery no matter how he tried to justify himself or his actions he even says it himself he was wrong about alot of things and i agree with him especially on the slavery thing that is unforgivible alone

Needless to say, all my city elves kill Loghain, no question (and most Dalish elves).

One of my city elf PCs - 
'You think enslaving my people to be used by blood mages is necessary, well necessitate this!'

*chop * Logy's head flies, and another human noble who pushed the Denerim elves to far bites the dust :innocent:

[MaxQuartiroli]

shedevil3001 wrote...

i didnt like anora she used my warden to get the throne manipulated her and shes to much like her father i wouldnt trust her as far as i could throw her at least alistair didnt want to be king which is why i chose him as he didnt care about having power and he would do great things with the help of my fhn at his side helping him to rule fairly

My character is a woman who loves women (Iona/Leliana) and want to give power to other women (Anora)
girl-power in my DA game !

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 23 mars 2010 - 01:36 .

[Liso66]

shedevil3001 wrote...

i didnt like anora she used my warden to get the throne manipulated her and shes to much like her father i wouldnt trust her as far as i could throw her at least alistair didnt want to be king which is why i chose him as he didnt care about having power and he would do great things with the help of my fhn at his side helping him to rule fairly

And if you were Queen? loved your country and it's people? You would not use methods and tactics to ensure your position?  C'mon...  human nature here SD.. 

But you would kill Loghian, erode Anora, and marry Alistair to ensure a position you technically should not have?  Because you are a Grey Warden?  

"ponders"

[Liso66]

"Waves to StealthMaster"

[TheLion36]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...
BTW.. I love Anora !

I'm going to get slapped for saying this again... But I like Anora too, love it when she's fidgeting when you spring her from her prison... hehe She was doing the same in Awakening!  
And yeah she uses you, but we also use people in the game!

[MoSa09]

I completely forgot Stealthmaster, he is so stealthy i overlooked him. Apologies and greetings

[MaxQuartiroli]

Good morning Curlain !!

[shedevil3001]

obviously you wernt there i meant you would of learned about it at school lol i read alot about it and watched north and south, which is why i feel very strongly about the slavery thing i wanted to punch loghains face in for that especially on my first playthrough as i was a city elf and that was my blummin father he was trying to sell into slavery damn him he deserved to die for that

oh and i did take him to ostagar and hes so blummin cold hearted i wanted to feed him to the dark spawn the things he kept saying especially when you give cailan a propper send off made me so mad he shows no sign of remorse


hi stealthmeister nearly didnt see you there "waves"

Modifié par shedevil3001, 23 mars 2010 - 01:43 .

[Liso66]

shedevil3001 wrote...

obviously you wernt there i meant you would of learned about it at school lol i read alot about it and watched north and south, which is why i feel very strongly about the slavery thing i wanted to punch loghains face in for that especially on my first playthrough as i was a city elf and that was my blummin father he was trying to sell into slavery damn him he deserved to die for that

oh and i did take him to ostagar and hes so blummin cold hearted i wanted to feed him to the dark spawn the things he kept saying especially when you give cailan a propper send off made me so mad he shows no sign of remorse

Cailan was an idoit. A good hearted idiot, but one none the less. I felt bad seeing his body stuck up there too. However... Even his guard said "He Knew" They could not win this battle. He wanted his place in history...  Terrible for his kingdom and illogical.

I know Loghain was not the most cordial during RtO.. but he did point out some interesting facts.

I am not saying what is right or wrong here. I am just able to see all side to this complex coin.. 

[Liso66]

Oh... and ironically enough? Only my noble females have let Loghain live. "go figure"

[shedevil3001]

Liso66 wrote...

shedevil3001 wrote...

i didnt like anora she used my warden to get the throne manipulated her and shes to much like her father i wouldnt trust her as far as i could throw her at least alistair didnt want to be king which is why i chose him as he didnt care about having power and he would do great things with the help of my fhn at his side helping him to rule fairly

And if you were Queen? loved your country and it's people? You would not use methods and tactics to ensure your position?  C'mon...  human nature here SD.. 

But you would kill Loghian, erode Anora, and marry Alistair to ensure a position you technically should not have?  Because you are a Grey Warden?  

"ponders"

erm nope btw just to point out i very rarely used persuade i chose other options in almost every convo except ruling along side alistair so no manipulation was used on him especially in the ritual i said to him i would do it if i had the right parts he choose to do it without me manipulating him just for the record

[MaxQuartiroli]

Liso66 wrote...

Cailan was an idiot.

[Liso66]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

Cailan was an idiot.

's back

[MoSa09]

Better be an idiot than a traitor who sacrifices the son of his friend because of his fears. Think about the letters of RtO.

He did sacrifice his king cause he knew that his daughter was most probably barren and Cailan was to dump her, and that Cailan was maybe ingaged with a woman form Orlais. He was not caring for his country, though me may believed that, he was caring for his own unreasoned fears and hsi believes (like he did with MAric) he always knows best and can shove other people around to do what he wants or kill them. He deserves nothing better than he got

[MaxQuartiroli]

TheLion36 wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...
Loghain or not Loghain... After talking with Cailan the first time.. and after looking how idiot he was...
Did anyone ever thought he could survive to that battle? I imagined immediately he would die in that battle.. Didn't only know how.. 

Not sure he was really dumb, he was very ambitious... Just young and impatient... Lots of figures in history came pretty far with that attitude!  

Yes.. he was so ambitious, young and impatient that he was killed by an ogre, just with a single hand
Don't forget... Just a single hand !

[Liso66]

shedevil3001 wrote...

Liso66 wrote...

shedevil3001 wrote...

i didnt like anora she used my warden to get the throne manipulated her and shes to much like her father i wouldnt trust her as far as i could throw her at least alistair didnt want to be king which is why i chose him as he didnt care about having power and he would do great things with the help of my fhn at his side helping him to rule fairly

And if you were Queen? loved your country and it's people? You would not use methods and tactics to ensure your position?  C'mon...  human nature here SD.. 

But you would kill Loghian, erode Anora, and marry Alistair to ensure a position you technically should not have?  Because you are a Grey Warden?  

"ponders"

erm nope btw just to point out i very rarely used persuade i chose other options in almost every convo except ruling along side alistair so no manipulation was used on him especially in the ritual i said to him i would do it if i had the right parts he choose to do it without me manipulating him just for the record

You have to use a persuasion at the landsmeet to become Alistair's wife and queen. This is to influence the nobles. not so much Alistair. I also never used persuade for the DR.. Never had too.

[Curlain]

Thanks for the welcome :-)

As for Anora, I think as sole ruler she would be a bad idea, she's to like her father, and like Loghain is to single-minded to see the larger picture. She would deal with situation x but doing y, but not see how it would lead in influencing a number of other situations.

It's why Loghain gets into the mess he does, he sees doing what he does as dealing with the Orlesians, but he doesn't see how it will effect the Bannorn, the darkspawn threat etc, and so finds himself in a civil war, with disasters he helped cause springing up in a number of areas because he couldn't think far enough ahead. He remains throughout the game reactive to situations rather then attempting to anticipate how others (beyond his intended targets) will react to his actions, and control the political landscape, and so becomes just like the Orelsian overlords he fought using brute force in each area to beat Ferelden into following him. He makes a great commander but a terrible leader, and this was why Maric and he together were a great partnership.

And the same is true of Anora, she needs the counterbalance but in humanity terms and in terms of seeing a larger picture to give Ferelen the best opportunity for recovery. Alistair isn't the best option for all of this (in some ways, the idea therefore is either male HN married to Anora or female HN married to Alistair if the Warden does meet these criteria), but he does give the necessary human understanding necessary together with Anora's ruthless but rather narrow and single-minded pragmatism to ruling effectively.

Modifié par Curlain, 23 mars 2010 - 01:54 .

[Liso66]

MoSa09 wrote...

Better be an idiot than a traitor who sacrifices the son of his friend because of his fears. Think about the letters of RtO.
He did sacrifice his king cause he knew that his daughter was most probably barren and Cailan was to dump her, and that Cailan was maybe ingaged with a woman form Orlais. He was not caring for his country, though me may believed that, he was caring for his own unreasoned fears and hsi believes (like he did with MAric) he always knows best and can shove other people around to do what he wants or kill them. He deserves nothing better than he got

Those letters were not so clear that Cailan was going to marry anyone else.  Loghain assumes imo..  It does not change the fact Cailan KNEW that battle was lost before it started. And he would not wait for backup..  idiot

[shedevil3001]

Liso66 wrote...

Oh... and ironically enough? Only my noble females have let Loghain live. "go figure"

the only 1's in my playthrough that let him live upto now is my mage and my dalish elf as he didnt really do anything to the dalish but from the elf side she should of killed him so should my mage after what he did to jowan as he was my friend but jowan was a bad boy too so i let loghain live just to hear his point of view man hes colder than the north pole and blummin heartless it irritated me how heartless he was when i talked to him he may have been a hero once but now hes darkspawn food in my game mind reading the stolen throne i really felt sorry for him and loved his character until i got upto the ending bit with maric and katriel and even rowan considering he was supposed to love her so much how the hell could he live with himself after leaving her only son to die

[Liso66]

Curlain wrote...

Thanks for the welcome :-)

As for Anora, I think as sole ruler she would be a bad idea, she's to like her father, and like Loghain is to single-minded to see the larger picture. She would deal with situation x but doing y, but not see how it would lead in influencing a number of other situations.

It's why Loghain gets into the mess he does, he sees doing what he does as dealing with the Orlesians, but he doesn't see how it will effect the Bannorn, the darkspawn threat etc, and so finds himself in a civil war, with disasters he helped cause springing up in a number of areas because he couldn't think far enough ahead. He remains throughout the game reactive to situations rather in attempting to anticipate how others (beyond his intended targets) will react to his actions, and control the political landscape, and so becomes just like the Orelsian overlords he fought using brute force in each area to beat Ferelden into following him. He makes a great commander but a terrible leader, and this was why Maric and he together were a great partnership.

And the same is true of Anora, she needs the counterbalance but in humanity terms and in terms of seeing a larger picture to give Ferelen the best opportunity for recovery. Alistair isn't the best option for all of this (in some ways, the idea therefore is either male HN married to Anora or female HN married to Alistair if the Warden does meet these criteria), but he does give the necessary human understanding necessary together with Anora's ruthless but rather narrow and single-minded pragmatism to ruling effectively.

Exactly.. which is why, having her marry Alistair "hardened"" becomes the perfect balance. Just like Alistair never becomes that great of a king alone..