102 réponses à ce sujet

[G-four]

I'm in love with Liliana. On my first run I romanced Morrigan first and the Liliana. I played a Dwarf Noble warrior male. No on My second run I really was playing to go for Zevran, but I had sex with Alister for the achievement, the romanced Zevran to complete the achievement but I end up with Liliana again. I now play a Elf city rogue female

She is just so cute

Aren't all the characters a bit over the top? in DA:O

Modifié par G-four, 26 février 2010 - 01:05 .

[Creature 1]

filaminstrel wrote...

The shoe fetish was jarring to me because it seemed way too.. modern. The reference to platform shoes in the same conversation didn't really help.

Ridiculous shoes, including platform shoes, are not a new invention. 

[Janni-in-VA]

I don't think she said anything about platform shoes, she just mentions shoes with "little tapered heels".



Of course, as a group and a sweeping general statement, I think women see men as being like Sten while wishing they were more like Alistair while either secretly lusting after Zevran or wishing he'd stop humping her leg.

[krylo]

Janni-in-VA wrote...

I don't think she said anything about platform shoes, she just mentions shoes with "little tapered heels".

She mentions platform shoes if you ask her "Were they ridiculous shoes?"

[Helios969]

LostScout wrote...

As long as you save the "butterfly eyelids" comments until after you have sex with someone, you will probably be just fine using it in real life. Do guys really think women act crazy? Uhmm, yes, we do. Not all women are crazy in the same ways, but yes, you are all crazy, and we love you anyway. I always felt that many of Alistair's whining was his attempts at humor, and I just ignored it. Men learn to ignore many things that annoy us in life, although it sometimes gets us into trouble.

Yes, I tend to agree, but only when romantically involved with them.  I've had a number of female friends that didn't display any sort of "craziness."  What I'd love to know is why?  Is it because men are raised to suppress their emotions and women are governed by them?  (Generally speaking)  If so, is that why more men are prone to violent behaviors?

Just for the record, I loved the "butterfly eyelid" comment.  It felt geniune and feminine, though that's from a guy's perspective.

[SurelyForth]

I have romanced Leliana with a couple of my female PC's and Iove it- it feels very friendly and sweet. I even like the sleep-watching/eye-lashes in a jar comment because I'm quirky like that and can see that it's just a cute, jokey little remark.



Leliana rubs my male Cousland the wrong way (and he's an utter himbo). That's a bummer, because I really don't care much for the Morrigan romance (and I love her character when I play female PC's). I think Morrigan, in a relationship, is absolutely maddening. I just can't wrap my head around the whole hot/cold -"I will respect your independence"/"wear this ring so I always know where you are and do not even THINK about looking at another woman" thing. I know she's inexperienced with dealing with relationships and everything, but that's actually more offensive to me, as a woman, than Leliana being a bit crazypants and too enamored with shoes.

[krylo]

Morrigan isn't just inexperienced with relationships, Surely. She has been taught her entire life that love is a weakness. That she should avoid it. That she should never fall in love. That she could never be so weak as to fall in love.

Her hot cold isn't because she's inexperienced or because she's a woman, but because she's struggling with the fact that she loves you but she, by everything that she has ever known about the world, shouldn't. And worst of all--she likes it.

I find it much sweeter than Lelianna's, personally.  She may be your basic Tsundere, but she's got a good reason for it so I don't mind it at all.

But then, I can never get past the fact that Lelianna is, literally, no rhetoric involved here, certifiably insane. She has literal delusions and believes that God is telling her where to go and what to do. She's got a good/sweet/fun character underneath all that, but ugh. Just UGH.

Modifié par krylo, 26 février 2010 - 04:03 .

[guytza]

I wrote this once before, but since the eyelash thing came up again.....An old girlfriend said nearly the exact same thing to me years ago, which when seeing Lel say it was a very surreal experience. Pleasant, but it made me give a raised eyebrow when it came up....but then again its been a long established fact that I attract the crazy ones from miles away.



By the way, there is a section of dialogue I found whilst romancing and hardening leliana that essentially gets her to admit that the whole "The maker speaks to me" thing is not really true and she was just really really bored at the Chantry and wanted attention. Basically it was her nature as a bard to manipulate and control attention getting the better of her attempts to leave the life behind. Am I the only one that picked up on that?



Back to the OP. I've played through as a Human Noble Female rogueish character who liked to mess with people a bit and an almost Sten like Dalish Warrior Male with a serious Shem-hating chip on his shoulder. He lightentned up near the end but at first truly couldnt stand Alistair and his lack of testicular fortitude. I was lucky enough to find a few options in the dialogue that essentially were "Cowboy up Cupcake, this is a blight...Now get your head in the game." The female however liked to tease the uptight Alistair and the relationship built out of that.

Id say its a tip of the hat to the writers that the same story can be so very different depending on the personality that the player projects to the character.

[Helios969]

krylo wrote...

But then, I can never get past the fact that Lelianna is, literally, no rhetoric involved here, certifiably insane. She has literal delusions and believes that God is telling her where to go and what to do. She's got a good/sweet/fun character underneath all that, but ugh. Just UGH.

Doesn't she actually state in one of the dialogue threads that it's more feeling than actual voice?  I seem to recall something along those lines.  Then there is the Guardian dialogue that suggests she made up her claims for attention - relishing the attention even if it's negative.  She may be certifiable, but I'm not entirely convinced.

I like them both.  Each has a uniqueness and a dichotomy of behavior that adds to their charm.

[krylo]

Helios969 wrote...

Doesn't she actually state in one of the dialogue threads that it's more feeling than actual voice?  I seem to recall something along those lines.  Then there is the Guardian dialogue that suggests she made up her claims for attention - relishing the attention even if it's negative.  She may be certifiable, but I'm not entirely convinced.

I like them both.  Each has a uniqueness and a dichotomy of behavior that adds to their charm.

She does state that, but she still holds onto the idea it's true.  Even in the face of the Guardian, who can apparently read minds, telling her that she just made it up--she insists that she didn't and it's true.

Craaaaaazy

[SurelyForth]

Morrigan isn't just inexperienced with relationships, Surely. She has been taught her entire life that love is a weakness. That she should avoid it. That she should never fall in love. That she could never be so weak as to fall in love.



Her hot cold isn't because she's inexperienced or because she's a woman, but because she's struggling with the fact that she loves you but she, by everything that she has ever known about the world, shouldn't. And worst of all--she likes it.

Yeah, I get that. It just strikes me wrong, I think. Maybe once I get to love and go through *that* whole trauma, I'll like it better.

[MagicalSarai]

I found Alistair to be kinda whiny myself...

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

As a guy Alistair's lack of confidence in himself is annoying, but not quite enough to make me call him a whiner. It really does help if you harden him. Makes it much easier to respect him both as a friend who has my Warden's back & as a potential king.



Lel is, frankly, insane. I actually like her *less* after seeing the full romance. I just wish that guy wardens could have a love interest that was both strong and sane.

[krylo]

There's always Zevran.

[Helios969]

krylo wrote...

There's always Zevran.

Too pretty.

[krylo]

Helios969 wrote...

krylo wrote...

There's always Zevran.

Too pretty.

I know I am, but I still settle for him on occassion.

[Skeletondog]

Interesting post, SuperMedbh.

While normally I'm easily irritated by female stereotypes, Leliana didn't strike me as one - though I romanced her as a woman, so I might be missing something, here.

Though she is a feminine woman, I don't get the impression that her loopy nature is connected to her gender. If her mental instability only came off in the form of her excessive sentimentality, I would definitely think this was a crazy girlfriend caricature in action. However, when you add her delusions, eccentricity, and the fact that she was introduced covered in blood while serenely crooning about how the Maker told her to help you, I take it to be just a crazy character who happens to also be very sweet. I like Leliana a lot, though I can see where you're coming from.

I was very happy in general with how this game handled women. Being a female character didn't feel like just being a dude with boobs, and there was a great variety of important women, and by jove, not all of them were there to be screwable! Wynne was one badass chick even with her age - now, conversely, it is worth noting that supportive/motherly figures are probably the secondary obligatory feminine role, next to the role of love interest. However, I'm willing to excuse that for Wynne, because she doesn't hesitate to drop her support if she doesn't like you, and as with Leliana and Morrigan, she pasts an important test for a decent female character: if you removed her feminine role (as mother figure, in this case) she'd still be a full, fleshed out character with a reason to be there.

I was also tickled to learn Shale is (so to speak) female. GO SHALE GO!

[Addai]

Since I'm not likely to ever do the Leliana romance, can someone explain what people are talking aobut with "the eyelash thing"? It sounds freaky. LOL

[CalJones]

I'm female and prefer to play males (as I've said in other threads - I'm quite a blokey woman, lift weights, prefer action movies to chick flicks and refuse to wear heels or any other clothing that disables me in any way) so I've seen the game from both sides. Alistair is a lot less irritating if you romance him, but if you don't, it's Carth Onasi all over again, only instead of wah wah my wife it's wah wah Duncan. (Admittedly, Alistair's self deprecating humour is a lot more charming than Carth's trust issues),



Zev's my favourite romance (I've only romanced him with male characters thus far - the gay thing is pretty hot), but I did like Morrigan a lot more than expected and could totally understand why any man would find her hot. I just didn't get Leliana though. She's such a girly girl I can't identify with her at all (that and I'm agnostic so her Maker thing creeps me out). I romanced her with my female city elf (I figured that a girl who'd almost been raped might have a few issues with men) and the romance itself was quite sweet, but the eyelash thing made me cringe. She struck me as the sort of woman who would turn into an obsessive stalker the second you dumped her. You'd come back to camp to find your nug boiling in the pot.

[Cutlass Jack]

Addai67 wrote...

Since I'm not likely to ever do the Leliana romance, can someone explain what people are talking aobut with "the eyelash thing"? It sounds freaky. LOL

Basically after 'visiting the tent' with Leliana, you wake up to find her looking sweetly down on you while you sleep. When you ask her about this she says how your eyelashes are so pretty when you sleep, like butterflies. And she'd like to put them in a jar. If you say 'thats creepy' she laughs about it. But if you offer to get the jar for her she says how she loves how you always play along with her nonsense.

She's just being silly/romantic. Its a much sweeter 'afterglow' sequence than you get with Morrigan or Zev. Alistair's is pretty close though.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 26 février 2010 - 06:55 .

[guytza]

Addai67 wrote...

Since I'm not likely to ever do the Leliana romance, can someone explain what people are talking aobut with "the eyelash thing"? It sounds freaky. LOL

After spending the night with her, you awake to find her staring at you. She then swoons a bit mentioning that your eyelashes flutter while you sleep. She finds it adorable, like a pair of butterflies that she might steal and put in a jar.
The responses you get to this range from "aww thats sweet" to "Oh great, now you've gone crazy".

[SuperMedbh]

Skeletondog wrote...

I was also tickled to learn Shale is (so to speak) female. GO SHALE GO!

"Now, let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?"



Interesting comments, all!  I didn't know a woman had written Liliana.  On consideration, I'll have to agree that she's a type, if hardly representitive of women in general.  For me it was definitely different seeing her through my HNM's eyes than my other (female) characters, though.  But the point about her being a bard/deceptive is a  good one.  Remember her comment about how she would become the woman her targets wanted?  Perhaps the silly/religious act is part of that.  Maybe she's acted that part so long, she's started to believe it herself. 

[Maria Caliban]

I'm sure others will disagree, but I think the Leliana romance is better if you play a female. In fact, I'd say Dragon Age is the only BioWare game where the majority of romances (Alistair, Leliana, and Zevran) seem to be written with female PCs in mind.

[Cutlass Jack]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm sure others will disagree, but I think the Leliana romance is better if you play a female. In fact, I'd say Dragon Age is the only BioWare game where the majority of romances (Alistair, Leliana, and Zevran) seem to be written with female PCs in mind.

I think Leliana is great on either gender. Though the 'girl talk' conversations when you're female work much better for gently approaching same sex romance, than Zev leering at you if you're male. (Though the latter is hysterical).

But yes, the Female romances are incredibly well done in Dragon Age. When I complain about Kaidan's romance in Mass Effect, (Or Jacob for that matter) its not because I'm a guy. Its because I've seen how good they could be done in DA. Even as a guy I had fun romancing Alistair.

[Alandros]

SuperMedbh wrote...

But what I REALLY want to know is--  do guys really think women act as god-help-us as Liliana does?  I mean, really, she's a bit nuts, isn't she?  

Yes...  though some Women are crazy in the Morrigan direction of fearing love and commitment.  Morrigan's romance was creepily similar to when my wife and I dated... except in a lot of ways Morrigan was easier to romance.  My wife jokes that she put me through 2 years of hell because she was afraid of love.  On the other hand she didn't bed me and run off with a half-god child, we did in fact marry and she jokes about how crazy she was.  Though yes Women are in fact crazy when in love, and those two representations are very good and accurate ones based off of my own experiences.

(Not to say guys aren't crazy in their own way of course lol)