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#76
Xandurpein

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errant_knight wrote...

guytza wrote...

I'm not entirely sure if a fem!Alistair would have worked to be honest. Innocent romantic with self esteem issues and a lack of knowledge on interpersonal relationships. Ugh, thats too close to real life. I think some of Alistairs fangirl attracting charm is his work in progress status. I cant speak for all men, but a female version of that would be too much like the cliche anime popular/cute girl, which I think would drive me to dive into the business end of an industrial strength wood-chipper.


I get what you're saying here, because that would drive me nuts, too, but that type of character wouldn't be a female version of Alistair. because you've left out some of the most important aspects of his character--his sense of humor, sarcasm, adherence to his principles--even his temper when someone crosses the line.


'Innocent romantic with self esteem issues and a lack of knowledge on interpersonal relationships' wouldn't work as a love interest for male characters? I would suggest you head over to the Mass Effect forums before you make such a statement. Check out the horde of people who love the Tali romance in ME2. Tali is the proverbial shy/awkward romance and she is by far the most popular romance in Mass Effect 2 with male players. Maybe not your cup of tea, but I see no real difference between men and women, when it comes to preferring a shy/awkward LI, to a cool one.

I think that it is marvellous that Bioware can pave the way and show the rest of the industry that gamers want more than just cool dangerous guys/girls with pumped bodies for relationships.

#77
errant_knight

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Xandurpein wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

guytza wrote...

I'm not entirely sure if a fem!Alistair would have worked to be honest. Innocent romantic with self esteem issues and a lack of knowledge on interpersonal relationships. Ugh, thats too close to real life. I think some of Alistairs fangirl attracting charm is his work in progress status. I cant speak for all men, but a female version of that would be too much like the cliche anime popular/cute girl, which I think would drive me to dive into the business end of an industrial strength wood-chipper.


I get what you're saying here, because that would drive me nuts, too, but that type of character wouldn't be a female version of Alistair. because you've left out some of the most important aspects of his character--his sense of humor, sarcasm, adherence to his principles--even his temper when someone crosses the line.


'Innocent romantic with self esteem issues and a lack of knowledge on interpersonal relationships' wouldn't work as a love interest for male characters? I would suggest you head over to the Mass Effect forums before you make such a statement. Check out the horde of people who love the Tali romance in ME2. Tali is the proverbial shy/awkward romance and she is by far the most popular romance in Mass Effect 2 with male players. Maybe not your cup of tea, but I see no real difference between men and women, when it comes to preferring a shy/awkward LI, to a cool one.

I think that it is marvellous that Bioware can pave the way and show the rest of the industry that gamers want more than just cool dangerous guys/girls with pumped bodies for relationships.


I don't think the poster was referring to a character who is merely shy/awkward/inexperienced, but to the extremely cliched 'innocent' (kind of a 'Mary-Sue') who appears far too much in anime. I didn't think that was a fair comparison to Alistair at all, and I'm not sure why one would see him that way, but I think that was the gist.

#78
Xandurpein

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errant_knight wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

guytza wrote...

I'm not entirely sure if a fem!Alistair would have worked to be honest. Innocent romantic with self esteem issues and a lack of knowledge on interpersonal relationships. Ugh, thats too close to real life. I think some of Alistairs fangirl attracting charm is his work in progress status. I cant speak for all men, but a female version of that would be too much like the cliche anime popular/cute girl, which I think would drive me to dive into the business end of an industrial strength wood-chipper.


I get what you're saying here, because that would drive me nuts, too, but that type of character wouldn't be a female version of Alistair. because you've left out some of the most important aspects of his character--his sense of humor, sarcasm, adherence to his principles--even his temper when someone crosses the line.


'Innocent romantic with self esteem issues and a lack of knowledge on interpersonal relationships' wouldn't work as a love interest for male characters? I would suggest you head over to the Mass Effect forums before you make such a statement. Check out the horde of people who love the Tali romance in ME2. Tali is the proverbial shy/awkward romance and she is by far the most popular romance in Mass Effect 2 with male players. Maybe not your cup of tea, but I see no real difference between men and women, when it comes to preferring a shy/awkward LI, to a cool one.

I think that it is marvellous that Bioware can pave the way and show the rest of the industry that gamers want more than just cool dangerous guys/girls with pumped bodies for relationships.


I don't think the poster was referring to a character who is merely shy/awkward/inexperienced, but to the extremely cliched 'innocent' (kind of a 'Mary-Sue') who appears far too much in anime. I didn't think that was a fair comparison to Alistair at all, and I'm not sure why one would see him that way, but I think that was the gist.


Fair enough. I just wanted to say that I think that, without reading too much into it, there are some similarities between Alistair's and Tali's personalities and both seem to be very popular romances. And I think that both are great characters and far from simple cliché.

#79
errant_knight

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Xandurpein wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

guytza wrote...

I'm not entirely sure if a fem!Alistair would have worked to be honest. Innocent romantic with self esteem issues and a lack of knowledge on interpersonal relationships. Ugh, thats too close to real life. I think some of Alistairs fangirl attracting charm is his work in progress status. I cant speak for all men, but a female version of that would be too much like the cliche anime popular/cute girl, which I think would drive me to dive into the business end of an industrial strength wood-chipper.


I get what you're saying here, because that would drive me nuts, too, but that type of character wouldn't be a female version of Alistair. because you've left out some of the most important aspects of his character--his sense of humor, sarcasm, adherence to his principles--even his temper when someone crosses the line.


'Innocent romantic with self esteem issues and a lack of knowledge on interpersonal relationships' wouldn't work as a love interest for male characters? I would suggest you head over to the Mass Effect forums before you make such a statement. Check out the horde of people who love the Tali romance in ME2. Tali is the proverbial shy/awkward romance and she is by far the most popular romance in Mass Effect 2 with male players. Maybe not your cup of tea, but I see no real difference between men and women, when it comes to preferring a shy/awkward LI, to a cool one.

I think that it is marvellous that Bioware can pave the way and show the rest of the industry that gamers want more than just cool dangerous guys/girls with pumped bodies for relationships.


I don't think the poster was referring to a character who is merely shy/awkward/inexperienced, but to the extremely cliched 'innocent' (kind of a 'Mary-Sue') who appears far too much in anime. I didn't think that was a fair comparison to Alistair at all, and I'm not sure why one would see him that way, but I think that was the gist.


Fair enough. I just wanted to say that I think that, without reading too much into it, there are some similarities between Alistair's and Tali's personalities and both seem to be very popular romances. And I think that both are great characters and far from simple cliché.


Well, I certainly agree about Alistair. I can't speak on Mass Effect since I haven't played it. Besides, anyone who can plow through a darkspawn hoard like Alistair is cool and dangerous, however awkard and inexperienced he might be (endearingly).

Modifié par errant_knight, 01 mars 2010 - 09:54 .


#80
Xandurpein

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If you don't mind the spoilers and want to know what I'm talking about, here is a link to a youtube movie with the main parts of the actual romance conversations with Tali in ME2. It doesn't cover her whole personality, but it gives you an idea.





#81
OldMan91

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I really liked all romances, though Leliana was my favorite definitely. She's just so adorable!



Leliana: I've done a great deal in Orlais I regret, hunting men down and manipulating them.



Me: Well aren't you just adorable? *pinches her cheek*


#82
draxynnus

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errant_knight wrote...

Well, I certainly agree about Alistair. I can't speak on Mass Effect since I haven't played it. Besides, anyone who can plow through a darkspawn hoard like Alistair is cool and dangerous, however awkard and inexperienced he might be (endearingly).

Suddenly, I'm struck with the mental image of Urthemiel snoozing on top of a pile of Darkspawn...

(Psst! I think the word you wanted was horde. Image IPB)

#83
FearTheLiving

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Who ever I play I've always liked Alistair. He is a bit whiny and annoying when he's crying over Duncan, but I still always liked him and thinks he has the best lines in the game. Without Alistair the game would have felt empty.

I only romanced him once and that just didn't click well with me because I usually have a bromance with him and actually doing the deed with him as a female just felt wrong maybe because I can relate with male characters because I am one and I feel a bit awkward when I'm a straight male.

Modifié par FearTheLiving, 01 mars 2010 - 12:34 .


#84
guytza

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Gah, I had a sneaking suspecion that post was going catch me some flak, but it was late and I was tired so I might not have been as verbose as I usually am. Trying to accurately take a character and switch a major component such as gender is certainly not easy.



I also watched the video you linked Xandur....definately not the option I'd choose, and I dont even know the other options, trying not to overly spoilerize myself incase I decide to pick up ME/ME2.

#85
Aynslie

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pudi0072000 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
I found the eyelash like incredably cute and would melt into a puddle of goo if my girlfriend told that to me when I woke up in the morning.


I would call my mother to tell her I love her and where to look for my body.
All I could think of after that dialogue was "IT RUBS THE LOTION ON ITS SKIN OR IT GETS THE HOSE AGAIN!" 

:unsure:


ROFL!:lol::lol:  I about broke the computer when I read this.  ah, yea poor crazy Leli.

#86
Mirthadrond

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My first run - I tried to romance Leliana, but after a few conversations I found myself falling into the old trap of being a typical male, and saying anything I thought would help me get into her pants.



It worked of course, but then I was left with this empty hollow feeling. Here I'd shagged a fine looking woman, but had no interest in her. I wasn't interested in shoes, or butterflies, or any of the goofy stuff she talked about, including her religious views.



I still can't bring myself to romance Morrigan fully, just enough to get her accolade once.



Alister on the other hand?

With great fondness I romanced him, with all of my female PC's.

Alister has a personality that I genuinely like. His sense of humor makes me laugh all the time, even when I've heard his jokes before, and he is pretty damn adorable when he's embarrassed.



I actually 'forced' myself to romance Zev with one of my elf females, just to see what it's like. (not done with it yet, but so far it's not as much fun as romancing Alister.)



Leliana reminds me of some of the 'crazy' girlfriends I've had over the years, and those have never worked out well.



Once I got Alister to the point where when i click on him he says: "Yes my love?"

I get a little weak in the knees....... which is a little disturbing, since I'm a guy....




#87
OldMan91

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I get a little weak in the knees....... which is a little disturbing, since I'm a guy....




It isn't disturbing. I also fell for Alistair and his witty charms. Damn you Alistair!

#88
Maria Caliban

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Xandurpein wrote...

Tali is the proverbial shy/awkward romance and she is by far the most popular romance in Mass Effect 2 with male players.


Only BioWare and EA know who the most popular female love interest is. All the forum shows is that Tali fans post the most.

OldMan91 wrote...


I get a little weak in the knees....... which is a little disturbing, since I'm a guy....


It isn't disturbing. I also fell for Alistair and his witty charms. Damn you Alistair!


Lesbian. Same.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 01 mars 2010 - 08:06 .


#89
Malanek

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Helios969 wrote...

I actually think hetero women have better choices in DAO in terms of romance partners.  Men have the exquisitely beautiful but cold, emotionally-challenged Morrigan and the lovely Bard Leliana with a dark past and questionable motives.  Women have Leliana's male counterpart in Zevran, but they also get a good guy in Alistair.  Yeah, he's a bit overly sensitive, but no one disputes he's a genuine good guy.  I want a genuine good gal.Image IPB


I can see your point of view, I wouldn't mind a good girl...so long as she is an interesting character. Too often the good girls or boys are a little bland in stories. I think Alistair was excellent because he was a good guy and not bland.

However, I was more than happy with the girls in DA. I thought Morrigan was an extremely interesting and desirable character. I also really liked Anora although she could have done with a little more content. Both of them were very strong and intelligent. Leliana was not my type but two out of three was a great strike rate.

#90
Alandros

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Malanek999 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

I actually think hetero women have better choices in DAO in terms of romance partners.  Men have the exquisitely beautiful but cold, emotionally-challenged Morrigan and the lovely Bard Leliana with a dark past and questionable motives.  Women have Leliana's male counterpart in Zevran, but they also get a good guy in Alistair.  Yeah, he's a bit overly sensitive, but no one disputes he's a genuine good guy.  I want a genuine good gal.Image IPB


I can see your point of view, I wouldn't mind a good girl...so long as she is an interesting character. Too often the good girls or boys are a little bland in stories. I think Alistair was excellent because he was a good guy and not bland.

However, I was more than happy with the girls in DA. I thought Morrigan was an extremely interesting and desirable character. I also really liked Anora although she could have done with a little more content. Both of them were very strong and intelligent. Leliana was not my type but two out of three was a great strike rate.


Agreed completely.  I felt the same way towards Morrigan and also wanted more of a relationship with Anora.  The strong willed intelligent woman is definitely what I (and as it seems others) are drawn to.  I found Leliana's interactions and relationship very boring, though obviously some people absolutely adore her so it just shows how varied people's tastes are.

#91
errant_knight

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draxynnus wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Well, I certainly agree about Alistair. I can't speak on Mass Effect since I haven't played it. Besides, anyone who can plow through a darkspawn hoard like Alistair is cool and dangerous, however awkard and inexperienced he might be (endearingly).

Suddenly, I'm struck with the mental image of Urthemiel snoozing on top of a pile of Darkspawn...

(Psst! I think the word you wanted was horde. Image IPB)


LOL! Yes, indeed! Thanks for correcting that, although I'm rather glad I made the mistake as the image is quite humorous. :)

I'm going to hold off looking at the video, since I may still play ME2 at some point. It doesn't really appeal to me, but I don't want to spoil it in case I change my mind.

#92
Helios969

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Malanek999 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

I actually think hetero women have better choices in DAO in terms of romance partners.  Men have the exquisitely beautiful but cold, emotionally-challenged Morrigan and the lovely Bard Leliana with a dark past and questionable motives.  Women have Leliana's male counterpart in Zevran, but they also get a good guy in Alistair.  Yeah, he's a bit overly sensitive, but no one disputes he's a genuine good guy.  I want a genuine good gal.Image IPB


I can see your point of view, I wouldn't mind a good girl...so long as she is an interesting character. Too often the good girls or boys are a little bland in stories. I think Alistair was excellent because he was a good guy and not bland.

However, I was more than happy with the girls in DA. I thought Morrigan was an extremely interesting and desirable character. I also really liked Anora although she could have done with a little more content. Both of them were very strong and intelligent. Leliana was not my type but two out of three was a great strike rate.


Well it was a bit tongue-in-cheek.  But I think someone like Ser Cauthrien might be fun to play around with.  Not too hard on the eyes either.

#93
Malanek

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Helios969 wrote...
Well it was a bit tongue-in-cheek.  But I think someone like Ser Cauthrien might be fun to play around with.  Not too hard on the eyes either.


Ah, Ser Cauthrien. The golden girl of DA:O before the release. Her importance to the story was built up by forum fans (myself included) to assume she was something that she simply wasn't. Still an interesting character, her loyalty outweighing her intelligence. To have her as a love interest I think the story would have needed to be changed so that you could convince her of Loghains treachary while she was interrogating you after your capture and she would help you escape. Could have been interesting.

#94
Helios969

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Malanek999 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...
Well it was a bit tongue-in-cheek.  But I think someone like Ser Cauthrien might be fun to play around with.  Not too hard on the eyes either.


Ah, Ser Cauthrien. The golden girl of DA:O before the release. Her importance to the story was built up by forum fans (myself included) to assume she was something that she simply wasn't. Still an interesting character, her loyalty outweighing her intelligence. To have her as a love interest I think the story would have needed to be changed so that you could convince her of Loghains treachary while she was interrogating you after your capture and she would help you escape. Could have been interesting.


Definitely could have added even greater depth to DAO.  You mentioned before Anora, and she is beautiful, but it wouldn't have been practical to have her running around slaughtering darkspawn.  Not to mention she doesn't have any skills unless she intended to bore the darkspawn to death by reciting the intricacies of Fereldan politics.  Ser Cauthrien is deadly, and as you said being able to talk her out of following Loghain to his demise would have really been something.

Ah, what could have been...

#95
EccentricSage

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asaiasai wrote...

Men and women are wired different i can not remember where i heard it but according to some research i read somewhere women have on average twice as much connective tissue between the right and left hemispheres of the brain. It is why women seen to be crazy when in fact they are having several conversations at the same time and seem to get frustrated because all those conversations are bleeding over on each other. I get this everyonce in awhile from my wife, i have to remind her i am a guy one thing at a time, lets solve one problem and move on the the next. Men are in a way more linear, we focus on one task finish it, and move on the the next, women have a tendancy to focus on several and harry themselves finishing them all. To use an analogy i heard once; men's minds are composed of boxes and we have a place for everything, we take one box down rifle through it and then put it away, keeping everything seperate. Women on the other hand thier minds are like a ball of yarn where everything is touching and connected to everything else.

To of my favorite adages are;

Men never worry about the future until they have a wife, women never worry about the future once they have a husband.

Men marry women hoping they won't change, women marry men hoping they will.


I realy think that's over simplified.  Not all women are wired the same and not all men are wired the same.  I'm female, but I have a one-track mind, and the two sides of my brain tend to work seperately.  Multitasking is a nightmare to me, and I, too, find myself telling people to tell me one thing at a time, otherwise I too am left wondering why I was just told to put the paper towels in the fridge, and what on earth work had to do with that.

And women never worying about the future once they have a man just sounds sexist to me.  And for gods' sake, I would not marry a man I thought needed 'changing'. 

I think you've watched one too many Disney Princess movies, my friend.  Shame the tales of our childhood teach us that unhealthy relationship habits like helplesness and relying on men will lead to hapily ever after.

Leliana is my all time favorite DAO character, because she is crazy, everybody is insane it is just the measure of the degree to which that insanity manifests itself. Leliana seems like the type of woman who would be content cooking cleaning carting the kids around, and then at night run the freak flag up the pole for her S/O. While she is not innocent, very few people are, i think she is aware of that and wants the same sort of acceptance that she gives. Her issues do not seem to be the typical boring parental issues that Allister and Morrigan have, Leliana's issues are so much more interesting because of her struggle to overcome what is a self created problem, the desire to change and the struggle to stay on the path makes her deeper than the rest. Yea yea yea Leliana fanboy here, if you had to kiss ass i can not think of a sweeter one pucker up for. Plus she has the sexiest accent, dripping with innocent sexuality she knows what she is doing, you know what she is doing, but you can not help yourself. It is like oxygen, once you take that first hit you are hooked.

Asai


See, to me it doesn't seem like Leliana is trying to over come a self created problem.  She's just playing pretty pretty princess and letting others whom she puts in charge of her life and soul make her hard decisions for her.  Her path ends up being wichever path YOU choose for her.  I guess if you want a girlfriend who acts as a subordinate and can't think for herself, she's it.

Mirthadrond wrote...

Once I got Alister to the point where when i click on him he says: "Yes my love?"
I get a little weak in the knees....... which is a little disturbing, since I'm a guy....


You are adorable.  Got to love a man who's honest.  Al definetly grew on me, though I found him whiney at first.  Now he's kind of adorable like a awkward puppy... I'll romance him eventualy, though he's not my type, overall.  Zev... oh... he will surprise you.  ;)

I couldn't carry Morrigan's romance all the way through, but I will eventualy.  I was surprised how fast and hard I fell for her.  But her worldview does make me as uneasy as the Chantries.  *sigh*  Lel doesn't seem to have a thought in her head from what I experienced... I should try to do the romance, but I can't... I just can't... I'd sooner romance Wynne if it were an option!  And she pisses me off sometimes!  lol  But at least she thinks, even if incorectly!

Modifié par EccentricSage, 02 mars 2010 - 01:53 .


#96
draxynnus

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Mirthadrond wrote...

Once I got Alister to the point where when i click on him he says: "Yes my love?"
I get a little weak in the knees....... which is a little disturbing, since I'm a guy....

If it helps, disassociate yourself and imagine yourself in Alistair's shoes rather than your character's. Image IPB

errant_knight wrote...

LOL! Yes, indeed! Thanks for correcting that, although I'm rather glad I made the mistake as the image is quite humorous. :)

No problem!

My mind is fertile ground for the growth of strange mental images. Sometimes too fertile. Image IPB

#97
odiedragon

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Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm sure others will disagree, but I think the Leliana romance is better if you play a female. In fact, I'd say Dragon Age is the only BioWare game where the majority of romances (Alistair, Leliana, and Zevran) seem to be written with female PCs in mind.

I agree with this 1000% percent, except I'd take it beyond Bioware games and say it trumps all games in this reguard.

Furthermore, to me (and my husband, I might add), the game is much more intersting and dramatic if you play as a female PC.  Particurally playing through the Alistair romance.  And yes, I've played a male PC and romanced Morrigan too.  It still feels like a sideline plot to me, rather than being tied to the main plot of the game.  Maybe that will change down the road, I dunno, but that's my impression for DA:O anyway. 

The Landsmeet is WAY too straightforward if you're not involved with Alistair.  Sure, there are stil options to weigh and choose between, but they don't hit you in the same way nor as deeply.  Your character has MUCH less to lose otherwise, so it makes the decision making more pragmatic.  Morrigan's ritual is a painful choice all around, no matter what gender/relationship status the PC has.  It just doesn't compare to the emotionaly vested difference you see in the Landsmeet between Alistair romance vrs no Alistair romance.

My bi-curious!Cousland is romancing Leliana now, just to say I did it once.  Maybe it's because I hate (okay, okay, "don't understand") shoe people... but I don't get the appeal.  I think she's gonna satisfy her curiousity and then move on to Zevran.  Who will also get boring as soon as I go to Redcliffe, since I'm purposfully putting that off until I romance the other two. :lol:

#98
Maria Caliban

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Alandros wrote...

Agreed completely.  I felt the same way towards Morrigan and also wanted more of a relationship with Anora.  The strong willed intelligent woman is definitely what I (and as it seems others) are drawn to.  I found Leliana's interactions and relationship very boring, though obviously some people absolutely adore her so it just shows how varied people's tastes are.


I rather liked all three.

#99
odiedragon

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draxynnus wrote...

Mirthadrond wrote...

Once I got Alister to the point where when i click on him he says: "Yes my love?"
I get a little weak in the knees....... which is a little disturbing, since I'm a guy....

If it helps, disassociate yourself and imagine yourself in Alistair's shoes rather than your character's. Image IPB

Gotta agree with this, speaking from the perspective of a woman who's been stuck playing male leads for most of her "gaming life" growing up.  If you want a good female romance option, play one yourself!  Gives you some, albiet slight, insight into how the other half have had to live before recent years. ^_^

#100
guytza

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OldMan91 wrote...


I get a little weak in the knees....... which is a little disturbing, since I'm a guy....


It isn't disturbing. I also fell for Alistair and his witty charms. Damn you Alistair!


Same. Just goes to show that the writers are really fraking good at this. Interestingly, this is how I found out that my Human Female Rogue has both a commitment phobia and a wandering eye. The moment Alistair started spouting the L word, Leliana started looking real real good.

I even cringed at the rose, which surprised me and now I am seriously wondering if giving a flower to the girls I liked growing up was actually a good idea...