25 réponses à ce sujet

[The Real Bowser]

I keep hearing about this bug that makes it so shapeshift forms are not effected by spellpower, but instead by strength (which would utterly kill my idea for a shapeshifter/arcane warrior that I want to try out).

To be clear I am fully aware that most people think shapeshifting sucks, and I agree it probably does, however I am wanting to play it for fun and it's not a big issue to me.

All I want to know, really, is whether this bug was fixed, specifically on the Xbox 360 version.  I don't want to spend several hours into the game just to figure out it's still bugged.  That would not be much fun.

I am now curious about arcane warriors and how to make them work.  There are more details in the third reply down below this one (by me).  Thanks!

Modifié par The Real Bowser, 26 février 2010 - 10:31 .

[Dansayshi]

I wouldnt use it at all m8, it sounds good on paper, but default shapeshifting is really really bad.



Either Arc war + Blood mage or Arc war + Spi healer are the way to go.

[The Real Bowser]

If Shapeshifting is broken and it's never getting fixed, then frankly, I'll be happy to live without it.

It sounded fun but I am not going to sacrifice everything for it.

I have another question however. Does fatigue from all the sustained spells effect blood magic? Does it cost more health like it costs more willpower?

Also, is it possible to be a DPS arcane warrior, or do you have to be a tank (DPS meaning melee, spells, and heavy armor, rather than casting with a staff and less armor)?  If being a DPS is absolutely terrible I'd probably go with tanking.. if tanking IS the only real way to go, how exactly do you hold threat best?

I have been looking into arcane warrior and I am curious how to make it work.

Modifié par The Real Bowser, 26 février 2010 - 10:30 .

[The Real Bowser]

Bump. (I hope bumping isn't against forum rules. If so please let me know)

[Thanatos45]

Yes it is against the forum rules. First, you will be banned from the forums until the universe collapses on itself. Second, you will be thrown in a small prison cell together with 10 hungry hurlocks.

Anyway, AW seems to be best suited for tanking. With spells, massive armor, a good shield and some other equipment you can reach ungodly defense and armor ratings. DPS doesn't really work with AW since dual wielding sucks if you don't have at the very least the dual weapon training talent and 2-handers are too heavily dependant on their special attack talents (mighty blow etc.). Sword & board is really your best option,

If you really want to go DPS I'd forget about any armor (to reduce fatigue so you can cast more fireballs and stuff) and go for dex and defense. Then get a good dagger and put as many +elemental damage runes on it as you can combined with flame weapons and haste (since flame weapons and runes are solely dependant on your attack speed and dex helps with dagger damage and your attack rating too... hmm, well, perhaps dual wielding daggers this way actually DOES work, but you'd need a lot of good runes to offset the offhands way lower base damage). I'd also download the mod which allows you to cast all spells with (a) drawn weapon(s).

Modifié par Thanatos45, 26 février 2010 - 01:21 .

[The Real Bowser]

I doubt I can download any mods with the Xbox360 version.

[The Real Bowser]

Also, I forgot about my blood magic question.



Will more fatigue make blood magic cost more health in the same way it makes normal magic cost more mana?

[Vuokseniska]

tanking is best because you have a whole range of sustainable armor related spells like Rock Armor

[The Real Bowser]

Vuokseniska wrote...

tanking is best because you have a whole range of sustainable armor related spells like Rock Armor

Yeah but how do you hold aggro?  This is the sort of thing I am trying to figure out.  There are no taunts that I know of, and no increase threat, in order to get aggro I have to be especially clever and know good tricks.  I'm trying to figure this out.

[bl00dsh0t]

The aggro is an aw's worst problem. Use aoe spells like mind blast and fireball to grab their attention, but getting it back if your party draws aggro is hard. I would suggest having a warrior in the party that can act as a secondary tank and use taunt to keep your other mages/rogues safe when they have drawn aggro.



A very good aggro spell is bloodwound but you wouldn't get that till very lategame. A good one for early is crushing prison, use it on the most dangerous opponent and charge in first. Just make sure your teammates don't get too focused on those atacking you but the ones that aren't. I.e. take out their mages with your ranged backup while you keep the mob busy.



There is a very good guide on gamefaq's on arcane warriors: http://www.gamefaqs....le/920668/58247



It covers all you need to know without telling you how to build exactly but part of the fun is to find your own style of aw so I think it's perfect. Just remember that allthough you can spec yourself as an arcane warrior at level 7 that it is way too early to start running around in armor since you will still be a weak ass mage and hit nothing. around level 10-12 you can start being the main tank, untill then have someone else take the beating

[hexaligned]

Tanking with an AW requires a bit more party micro management than a character with taunt does, Miasma makes a great aoe threat booster, also the best strategy with an AW tank is to focus fire single enemies down one at a time, having another mage in the party throwing out damage aoe spells is sort of a no no. Instead load any other mages up with CC and single target damage spells. Just my advice anyways.

Edit: and yes you will have to gimp your other dps classes some, rogues especially, unless you are ok with them taking a smack or two right before an enemy dies.  AW's are a weird mix of a min max class and an rp class.  They are awsome solo, near invincable really.  If you want to min max your entire party though, you are better off using a war with taunt to tank, and keeping your mages casters.

Modifié par relhart, 26 février 2010 - 10:43 .

[TBastian]

It is a shame that so many people think that the Shapeshifter is a weak specialization. At its worst, it should be second only to the Arcane Warrior.



It's not broken. People just don't know how to use it.



YMMV.

[hexaligned]

TBastian wrote...

It is a shame that so many people think that the Shapeshifter is a weak specialization. At its worst, it should be second only to the Arcane Warrior.

It's not broken. People just don't know how to use it.

YMMV.

A bit of an exegeration, but it is perfectly viable balanced against the games difficulty.  The thing about shapeshifter is that it can't do anythig a caster mage can do better, you are gimping your spell damage for some extra survibility, something an AW doesn't have to do, AW's recieve much better surviavility for no real trade off.  I personaly like shapeshifters though, fun class, AW's are powerfull to the extent of making the game boring to me.

[Theinen83]

Modifié par Theinen83, 26 février 2010 - 11:13 .

[TBastian]

I am not exaggerating, and it actually becomes more powerful with increasing game difficulty, when spells are not as effective.

Gimping what? All but very specific mage builds invest in some other stat besides Magic, so why couldn't the Shapeshifter invest in strength? He doesn't need dex and con, since his forms take care of those. Willpower is not needed, since one of the reasons you shapeshift is because you're out of mana. Cunning is useful but not necessary.

The trade is for martials skills + survivability. The forms are all very unique and are capable of a great deal of things AW just lack. It is not just a "for fun" class, it is simply too complicated for all but the most willing gamers to delve in. In fact the Shapeshifter is the most powerful early game spec without DLC's.

Modifié par TBastian, 26 février 2010 - 11:20 .

[hexaligned]

heh, ok. The "willpower is not needed" bit gave away the worth of your argument. No min max mage is going to take any willpower regardless. Chugging potions whenever needed and completely locking down an entire room with CC's or blowing it up with aoe's, Is more effective than shifting, even if the cast time for it was somehow removed. Like I said, it's completely viable, and can be an effective way to play, it doesn't come close to the versatility or raw damage output an unspecilized mage can bring though.

[TBastian]

Willpower is not needed... for the Shapeshifter. It would be appreciated if you didn't take things out of context.

Up until they resist it mentally/physically/otherwise, or your fight starts in a cutscene, or the melee starts and you can't nuke anything without hitting your party mates, or your spells are in cooldown, or your enemies are immune to your spells, or your enemy is too dangerous to aggro, or your enemies have escaped your persistent AoEs and are rushing your mages,or your mage is reduced to being a healer frantically trying to keep your party alive. No thank you. And I prefer not to reload.

Magic is undoubtedly more powerful, yes, but in practice there are just some things like "mana cost", "cooldown", mental/physical/spell resistance and of course, aggro and gold limit (unless you bug).
How wonderful that someone who claims to love pure mages would fail to acknowledge any of these.

Modifié par TBastian, 26 février 2010 - 11:39 .

[hexaligned]

Well I'll agree if the implemented difficulty actually made things like "mana cost" and resistances a hinderance you would have a point. As it is they are a nonissue though, believe me I would love if the game was balanced so that mages actually had some effective counters to their abilities, thats not the reality of the game though.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

mind blast drops your threat, but otherwise, yes, AoE would be the way to go. Make sure your AW has the heaviest armor as well, and have an offtank. I have a mage in waiting for AW, but I haven't actually tried it yet...

[TBastian]

You must be playing a different game then, or you are playing the game differently. Personally I prefer to not to bug so my gold count is limited and since I have to buy every tome, every important 100+ gold item, the issue of mana costs and saving my Lyrium pots/poultices is quite serious as far as I'm concerned.

Resistances play a significant role in nightmare. I'm not sure how things are in normal and hard, I jumped from easy on my first few games to nightmare in subsequent runs. As it is, you can't resist your own spells so your AoEs are just as likely to kill your party members as your enemies. Anything can randomly can resist your spells in nightmare, as well, on top possibly succeeding in their mental/physical resistance checks.

[Vuokseniska]

sadly most people play on normal and thus playing any kind of mage on normal is a breeze only on hard or nightmare you really have use tactics to remove those resistances. though the affliction hax is WFT then

[TBastian]

That's a bit out of context. We were just discussing resistance superlatives, so it ended with how things happen in nightmare difficulty.
A Shapeshifter with 1 str/ 2 mag can be just as powerful as a pure mage in normal. The forms give him/her versatility. Anyway this is now going off topic.

Modifié par TBastian, 27 février 2010 - 12:37 .

[mosspit]

The Real Bowser wrote...
Also, is it possible to be a DPS arcane warrior, or do you have to be a tank (DPS meaning melee, spells, and heavy armor, rather than casting with a staff and less armor)?  If being a DPS is absolutely terrible I'd probably go with tanking.. if tanking IS the only real way to go, how exactly do you hold threat best?

I have been looking into arcane warrior and I am curious how to make it work.

Spellcast dps AW: Focus on dmg spells first. Similar stats to a normal mage. Pure mag viable. Wear robes/medium armour.
Playstyle: Spellcast. Activate CM when aggro'd mob due to dmg or when need to cleanup dying mob. Deactivate CM when needed to resume spellcast.

Spellcast support AW: Similar to spellcast dps AW with change in spell selection.

Melee focused AW: Focus on sustainables, key atk buffs and few dmg spells. Go more mag and some dex. Pure mag also viable with need of specific buffs. Wear robes to heavy armour.
Playstyle: Unload mana on mob at start and activate sustainables to melee. May leave CM for spellcast duties but not as often as spellcaster.

Tank AW: Focus on sustainables, key def buff and AoE dmg/CC. Go mag for spell req and more dex. Wear robes to heavy armour.
Playstyle: Empty mana for AoE/CC at start for the purpose of aggro. Sustainables that increase threat like miasma are favored. Try to aim for 150+ def.

Note:
There other ways to play an AW. These are just some of the more common ones imo. You can also mix-and-match.
Willpower/con are not stated but can be added up to gamer's discretion. If willpower is added, try adding the required as early as possible as it scales poorly with game progress.

Modifié par mosspit, 27 février 2010 - 02:37 .

[Mr_Raider]

The Real Bowser wrote...

I doubt I can download any mods with the Xbox360 version.

Then dex won't even help your dagger damage. Go sowrd and board and get haste on a party member.