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[Strange Aeons]

Zaeed is a callous, hardened killer; Jack is an emotionally unstable sociopath.



Morinth, on the other hand, is just pure chaotic evil.



There's something wrong with anyone who could let Morinth live after looking through the sad, meager belongings of the innocent girl whose small, humble life she toyed with and then snuffed out for her amusement. After talking with the girl's mother, devastated by the loss of the one glimmer of light that existed in her bleak life on Omega, I only regretted that I couldn't kill Morinth myself through a renegade interrupt as soon as we reached her apartment.

[Mox Ruuga]

Morinth and Jack. Both kill for kicks.

Zaeed is callous, but he has some standards compared to these two, not wanting to work with batarian slavers just because it's the cheaper "offshoring" option. He is the next one in line, being harsher than either of the Krogan squaddies, for example.

Modifié par Mox Ruuga, 26 février 2010 - 10:07 .

[BobbyTheI]

tonnactus wrote...

andysilv87 wrote...

Surely it has to be Morinth?

No.Genetic disorder that also prevent the development of empathy.(Source:codex)

"Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.” Captain G. M. Gilbert

A debatable notion, to be sure, but I think it's very true.  Maybe it's not her fault for being born that way, but in the end, she basically was born evil.

[JnEricsonx]

Morinth, hands down. Jack's messed up, violent, etc, but again, as she says "mess with someone long enough, you can turn a scared kid into a all-powerful b--ch." Zaeed's a dark-hearted bugger, but he does have standards, and as people have said, some of his comments are insightful. I dunno why Grunt gets called evil. Grunt is a big teenager who just happens to be bred for war, and you give him a direction. Sorta like a teenager with a major capacity and skill for violence, who meets a skilled football coach that makes him his star linebacker, i.e, Shepard as battlemaster. Grunt just wants to kick ass, thats all, if anything he looks, hell, THRIVES on the definition of a fair fight or even a unfair fight in which he has to fight even harder.

[Behindyounow]

The people Garrus kill are evil. He makes sure not to kill civilians.

[N7 Vanguard]

Zaeed, i hate that a-hole. I loved smacking him in the face.



Jack isnt evil as much as she is just lost and scared. Its kinda hot.

[Prophet of Rage]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

*Edit*  Forgot Morinth...but I never use her so I forget she's even a party member. 
 
Actually, no one.  I was very surprised by this.  I thought the ME2 cast would be quite dark, but I found them surprisingly light.  I will admit I tend to take a very optimistic interpretation on people's characters though especially if I like them, and I liked pretty much the whole ME2 cast.  All the people who look really dark at first: Jack, Thane, Grunt actually do end up having moral codes and causes they fight for and so on.  The only character I considered completely selfish (which to me is the truest defintion of "evil") was Zaeed.  He wanted his revenge and he wanted to get paid and I think that's pretty much all he wanted.  Second place goes to Miranda I think.  She's got a sadistic streak in her, and she enjoys dominating people.  She's pretty arrogant.  Her taunting of Jack is to me like poking a caged animal.  Jack's perfectly fine if you're straight with her and you leave her alone, and I think Miranda knew that, but she wanted to pull the female equivalent of an alpha dog stunt anyway.

I think the DAO party is way darker than ME2.  In fact, I think DAO has the only party in a Bioware game that is more dark than light.  Most Bioware parties IMO err on the side of grey to light.

Other than the Miranda = sadistic / selfish = evil, I agree with you completely.

I thought this worked against ME2, though. This was supposed to be the dark sequel and all these initially sketchy characters turn out to have hearts of gold? Wut? I decide whether or not to let Miranda, Jack, Mordin and Garrus raageshoot someone and then they're cool with whatever happens. Zaeed was the only character I had to ****slap. Would be nice to actually find myself at odds with one of my teammates and be forced to choose between them and what I think is right.

Morinth is the only recruitable evil person. Sucks.

[FlintlockJazz]

Morinth, for obvious reasons, followed by Miranda, who doesn't even have the decency to admit fault and in fact tries to pin it on others. Zaeed is just a complete idiot jackass who should be shot so that he doesn't endanger the rest of the team and ignored the rest of the time.

[MutantSpleen]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I think the DAO party is way darker than ME2.  In fact, I think DAO has the only party in a Bioware game that is more dark than light.  Most Bioware parties IMO err on the side of grey to light.

DAO WAY darker?

I am not seeing that many "dark" characters in DAO.  Zevran and Morrigan being the darkest and even they have some redeeming qualities.  I would put Alistair, Wynne, as actually pretty "good."  Leiliana is repentant about her past deeds, Oghren is a drunk lecher but not dark at all, quite funny too.  Sten, is from a very different culture but also very honorable. Shale, more of a neutral character.  Was it dog? It must be dog, he seemed pretty dark.

Modifié par MutantSpleen, 26 février 2010 - 10:29 .

[MutantSpleen]

It's hard to say who has wracked up a larger body count in their life in Mass Effect 2



Jack is my guess as the largest murderer. She has killed truckloads of people, often large groups at one time.



Morinth may have killed a lot of people over 400 years but she goes for the slow kill, one victim at a time probably not more than 2 a month, maybe longer. So yes over 400 years that really adds up but if Jack kept up at her pace for 400 years she would totally blow Morinth away.



Zaeed has probably killed a lot of people but he is a Merc and its just a job and Shep has probably killed just as many.



Thane probably has a large body count but again, its a job to him. One he consoles himself with "my body did it not me"



Miranda is manipulative but I wouldn't call her evil. She has probably done some nasty things but she has done good things too like helping save the Citadel.



Like most I think I see it as a tie between Jack and Morinth. However, both are really shaped by forces beyond their control. One was raised to be a killer, one was born with a disease that makes her a killer. Both still choose to continue their violent lifestyle, both get a "rush" from killing. Some may say Jack is misunderstood and looking for love. Well I would say Morinth really is too, but neither is really trying too hard and for Morinth love is an almost unattainable goal.

[abisha]

evil is a matter of view.

but most count as jack a agent of chaos, her list is so big as this topic

[tonnactus]

BobbyTheI wrote...


A debatable notion, to be sure, but I think it's very true.  Maybe it's not her fault for being born that way, but in the end, she basically was born evil.

How could we know that?What choices ardat-yaksi have?Isolation or dead i wouldnt call exactly a choice
Asari could use their abilites in secret service,like the hanar do with the drell.
Does the asari society really have no other solutions that this 2?
It seems dull.

[FlintlockJazz]

tonnactus wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...


A debatable notion, to be sure, but I think it's very true.  Maybe it's not her fault for being born that way, but in the end, she basically was born evil.

How could we know that?What choices ardat-yaksi have?Isolation or dead i wouldnt call exactly a choice
Asari could use their abilites in secret service,like the hanar do with the drell.
Does the asari society really have no other solutions that this 2?
It seems dull.

Morinth is the same as Rose West, Geoffrey Dahmer, and other serial killers, in fact that is what she is based on.  Sociopaths are uncurable, and allowing them to roam will only bring suffering to everyone else while they gain power at the expense of everything else.  As Samara says, Morinth is a tragic figure but not a sympathetic one, and she is right: she lies, manipulates and kills for her own self-gratification, nothing she says is the truth unless it gets what she wants, and what she wants is all that Morinth cares about.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 26 février 2010 - 11:39 .

[Zhijn]

Ah Jack isnt evil, just misunderstood given her history!. =P

But if i gotta pick, Morinth. Now thats one wicked vampire.

Modifié par Zhijn, 26 février 2010 - 11:38 .

[Waxsmoke]

Jack.

Criminal *****

[MutantSpleen]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...


A debatable notion, to be sure, but I think it's very true.  Maybe it's not her fault for being born that way, but in the end, she basically was born evil.

How could we know that?What choices ardat-yaksi have?Isolation or dead i wouldnt call exactly a choice
Asari could use their abilites in secret service,like the hanar do with the drell.
Does the asari society really have no other solutions that this 2?
It seems dull.

Morinth is the same as Rose West, Geoffrey Dahmer, and other serial killers, in fact that is what she is based on.  Sociopaths are uncurable, and allowing them to roam will only bring suffering to everyone else while they gain power at the expense of everything else.  As Samara says, Morinth is a tragic figure but not a sympathetic one, and she is right: she lies, manipulates and kills for her own self-gratification, nothing she says is the truth unless it gets what she wants, and what she wants is all that Morinth cares about.

Yeah I wonder how many people would be so judgemental if put in her shoes.  Her choices were, ok let us lock you away in isolation from all other people for 1000 years or she could choose a life of a fugitive, free but being hunted. The first choice you might as well be dead already and you most certainly would probably be mad after 1000 years of solitary isolation.  Not much of a choice in my opinion.  Samara said Morinth was her most intelligent and willful child, no wonder she chose the latter, her sisters were sheep.

[FlintlockJazz]

MutantSpleen wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...


A debatable notion, to be sure, but I think it's very true.  Maybe it's not her fault for being born that way, but in the end, she basically was born evil.

How could we know that?What choices ardat-yaksi have?Isolation or dead i wouldnt call exactly a choice
Asari could use their abilites in secret service,like the hanar do with the drell.
Does the asari society really have no other solutions that this 2?
It seems dull.

Morinth is the same as Rose West, Geoffrey Dahmer, and other serial killers, in fact that is what she is based on.  Sociopaths are uncurable, and allowing them to roam will only bring suffering to everyone else while they gain power at the expense of everything else.  As Samara says, Morinth is a tragic figure but not a sympathetic one, and she is right: she lies, manipulates and kills for her own self-gratification, nothing she says is the truth unless it gets what she wants, and what she wants is all that Morinth cares about.

Yeah I wonder how many people would be so judgemental if put in her shoes.  Her choices were, ok let us lock you away in isolation from all other people for 1000 years or she could choose a life of a fugitive, free but being hunted. The first choice you might as well be dead already and you most certainly would probably be mad after 1000 years of solitary isolation.  Not much of a choice in my opinion.  Samara said Morinth was her most intelligent and willful child, no wonder she chose the latter, her sisters were sheep.

It's not judgemental, it's simple fact.  If you want to talk about being put in someone else's shoes, put yourself in Nef's shoes, she barely even got a life thanks to Morinth.  And it was not like she was going to be locked in a cell for those 1000 years, they are actually made quite comfortable, which is more than their victims would get, and I can imagine alot worse things than what they wanted to do with Morinth.  Tragic, but considering that the only other option is to allow them to enslave whole village for their own self-gratification there is no other option.  Go and read about real life serial killers and sociopaths, it's quite interesting and disturbing.

[Firmijn]

morinth, easily

[tonnactus]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...


A debatable notion, to be sure, but I think it's very true.  Maybe it's not her fault for being born that way, but in the end, she basically was born evil.

How could we know that?What choices ardat-yaksi have?Isolation or dead i wouldnt call exactly a choice
Asari could use their abilites in secret service,like the hanar do with the drell.
Does the asari society really have no other solutions that this 2?
It seems dull.

Morinth is the same as Rose West, Geoffrey Dahmer, and other serial killers, in fact that is what she is based on.  Sociopaths are uncurable, and allowing them to roam will only bring suffering to everyone else while they gain power at the expense of everything else.  As Samara says, Morinth is a tragic figure but not a sympathetic one, and she is right: she lies, manipulates and kills for her own self-gratification, nothing she says is the truth unless it gets what she wants, and what she wants is all that Morinth cares about.

I repeat again. Did she ever had a chance to become a another person? No.I understand that she ran away.And because she was hunted she just enjoy every moment of her life because she could be dead just a few moments later.Where was no time for the development of regretting and empathy.

[tonnactus]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Yeah I wonder how many people would be so judgemental if put in her shoes. 

Yes,they just say sex and relationship,even freedom is unimportant.Lol.And that for an asari that live 1000 years.

[AntiChri5]

tonnactus wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...


A debatable notion, to be sure, but I think it's very true.  Maybe it's not her fault for being born that way, but in the end, she basically was born evil.

How could we know that?What choices ardat-yaksi have?Isolation or dead i wouldnt call exactly a choice
Asari could use their abilites in secret service,like the hanar do with the drell.
Does the asari society really have no other solutions that this 2?
It seems dull.

Morinth is the same as Rose West, Geoffrey Dahmer, and other serial killers, in fact that is what she is based on.  Sociopaths are uncurable, and allowing them to roam will only bring suffering to everyone else while they gain power at the expense of everything else.  As Samara says, Morinth is a tragic figure but not a sympathetic one, and she is right: she lies, manipulates and kills for her own self-gratification, nothing she says is the truth unless it gets what she wants, and what she wants is all that Morinth cares about.

I repeat again. Did she ever had a chance to become a another person? No.I understand that she ran away.And because she was hunted she just enjoy every moment of her life because she could be dead just a few moments later.Where was no time for the development of regretting and empathy.

Morinth escaping was okay but she was not forced to spend the next 400 years hunting and killing innocent people for pleasure.

[tonnactus]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

It's not judgemental, it's simple fact.  If you want to talk about being put in someone else's shoes, put yourself in Nef's shoes, she barely even got a life thanks to Morinth. 

The nef story was purely crap anyways.Nef isnt the victim morinth look for.Just remember what shepardt did to gain her attention.

[AntiChri5]

1. Morinth

2. Zaeed

3. Miranda.



Jack really only kills people who mess with her.

[tonnactus]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Morinth escaping was okay but she was not forced to spend the next 400 years hunting and killing innocent people for pleasure.

She was hunted.(until shepardt let her win against samara)
She could be dead next the day she awake.So she just take the pleasure she could get without regretting it.
She never got a chance to become a another person.