208 réponses à ce sujet

[ThatDancingTurian]

tonnactus wrote...

What pirates do?Ask the crew of other ships gently for money and cargo?

Threatening and stealing is in the job description, murder doesn't have to be. This isn't who's the most thuggish member, it's who's the most 'evil'. I wouldn't call Jack Sparrow evil, and he's a pirate.

You can nitpick Jack's backstory to death, but none of it trumps serial killer dominatrix with a penchant for corrupting the innocent.

[tonnactus]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

What pirates do?Ask the crew of other ships gently for money and cargo?

Threatening and stealing is in the job description, murder doesn't have to be. This isn't who's the most thuggish member, it's who's the most 'evil'. I wouldn't call Jack Sparrow evil, and he's a pirate.

Lol.Good that i never watch this movie.
Expensive and valuable goods are protected by armed men/women.And some of them will do their job and get killed.
Wrex doesnt just stealing goods for saren,he and other mercs killed the protectors of the volus ship for saren.

Modifié par tonnactus, 26 février 2010 - 02:30 .

[AntiChri5]

tonnactus wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

What pirates do?Ask the crew of other ships gently for money and cargo?

Threatening and stealing is in the job description, murder doesn't have to be. This isn't who's the most thuggish member, it's who's the most 'evil'. I wouldn't call Jack Sparrow evil, and he's a pirate.

Lol.Good that i never watch this movie.
Expensive and valuable goods are protected by armed men/women.And some of them will do their job and get killed.
Wrex doesnt just stealing goods for saren,he and other mercs killed the protectors of the volus ship for saren.

Wrex refused to do that job because Saren freaked him out.

[Daewan]

tonnactus wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Subject Zero was a pirate and let a space station crushed into a moon.Only self defense?Why she was in the purgatory?

Because Cerberus put a bounty on her.

What pirates do?Ask the crew of other ships gently for money and cargo?

"One moment please, we will be boarding your ship shortly.  Please have all your most valuable cargo out for a quick inspection, preferably close to an airlock so that we can more easily remove it.  Also, if you could take the time to pre-subdue anyone who might resist us, we'd appreciate it."

[AntiChri5]

tonnactus wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Subject Zero was a pirate and let a space station crushed into a moon.Only self defense?Why she was in the purgatory?

Because Cerberus put a bounty on her.

What pirates do?Ask the crew of other ships gently for money and cargo?

Again, you ignore my point and make a retarded post to distract people. You asked how she ended up in Pergatory, i told you. You didnt like the answer so you continue trying to tear down a character because you couldnt defend your precious Morinth.

[ThatDancingTurian]

tonnactus wrote...

Lol.Good that i never watch this movie.
Expensive and valuable goods are protected by armed men/women.And some of them will do their job and get killed.
Wrex doesnt just stealing goods for saren,he and other mercs killed the protectors of the volus ship for saren.

Armed men and women aren't innocents, they're opponents.

EDIT: And because I can see this coming, no, that doesn't mean if Morinth's prey had a gun that it would be okay for her to kill them. The security detail during a mercenary job is simply an obstacle, not the target.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 26 février 2010 - 02:37 .

[Freely]

I know others may feel differently, but ME2 removed most of the black and white and filled it with grey. I liked most of the characters by the end of the game. You can justify the "goodness" or provide reasons for the actions they've performed, but the things that most have done are considered evil.



Some examples:



Morinth - kills people, but does it through addiction due to genetics. She had little choice for the genes she was given, but did have a choice not to become addict. However, addiction is a powerful force that is controlled biologically & subconsciously. Even if the conscious mind knows accepts there is no rational justification for it, the urge is hard to resist. Does this make her evil? Well, killing people without law on your side puts in prison IRL.



Jack - kills, steals, kidnaps all because she had a harsh childhood. Yes, she had a hard childhood and when you strip away the front she's human afterall, but other people have hard childhoods and don't end up that way. Again, these crimes put people in prison.



Thane - an assassin. As nice as he is, as much as he wants to repent, he killed people. Now, some of that was sanctioned by the Hanaar (so potentially law on his side), but some weren't. What gives him the right to decide if someone lives or dies?



Samara - kills for a code of justice, but is willing to kill those who store her from seeking justice (such as police with the law on their side). Killing an innocent person who will not let you kill someone is still killing an innocent person.



Garrus - for the most part is a good person. However, on two occasions he's either killed someone rather than bring them to justice or had to be talked down. That's either murder or attempted murder.



Personally, no matter how nice or friendly a person is, what their past is, what disease they suffer from, IRL an evil act is an evil act.



So, who do I think is the most evil - TIM. Who knows how many murders he's orchestrated, what crimes against humanity he's committed or how many lives he'd be willing to sacrifice simply to better himself... I mean... humanity.

[Jackal904]

What is the point of this thread? Of course everyone is going to say Jack or Morinth....

[ThatDancingTurian]

Freely wrote...

So, who do I think is the most evil - TIM. Who knows how many murders he's orchestrated, what crimes against humanity he's committed or how many lives he'd be willing to sacrifice simply to better himself... I mean... humanity.

Well yeah, TIM obviously, but it said 'team mate', so... I guess he's sort of part of the team, seeing as he keeps insisting on telling you what to do. <_<

[Freely]

Luc0s wrote...

Freely wrote...

Garrus - for the most part is a good person. However, on two occasions he's either killed someone rather than bring them to justice or had to be talked down. That's either murder or attempted murder.

You do realise that in ME2, half of the time you're shooting the hell out of people without question, right? It's like the most common thing you do in Mass Effect.
Just pointing out the irony of what you just said.

Did I specify that Shepard wasn't evil anywhere?

Edit: To add to this Renegade Shep is a bit messed up. He's willing to push people out of a window for sh!ts & giggles.

Modifié par Freely, 26 février 2010 - 03:06 .

[Freely]

Luc0s wrote...

No but honestly, what does one more or less shot in someones head matter if Shepard and it's entire squad are killing lots of "baddies" on every mission anyway?

I think my lost point was that regardless of how we justify someone's actions, the act itself can still be evil.

More importantly, your post actually highlights the hypocracy of paragon Shep. We go round killing people without a care in the world and then Shep tries to talk down Garrus out of killing someone.

Paragon Shep definitely suffers from Bauer Syndrome, whereby the action is perfectly acceptable if Shep performs it, but abosutely not acceptable if someone else tries to pull the same stunt.

Of course, Shep might be talking Garrus down to save his soul. Who knows.

[MutantSpleen]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Lol.Good that i never watch this movie.
Expensive and valuable goods are protected by armed men/women.And some of them will do their job and get killed.
Wrex doesnt just stealing goods for saren,he and other mercs killed the protectors of the volus ship for saren.

Armed men and women aren't innocents, they're opponents.

EDIT: And because I can see this coming, no, that doesn't mean if Morinth's prey had a gun that it would be okay for her to kill them. The security detail during a mercenary job is simply an obstacle, not the target.

Wait wait! Are you defending Wrex's actions as "ok" because those armed security guards on a volus trading vessel shouldn't have tried to stop Saren's crew from robbing them? They had it coming? So Wrex wasn't commtting a crime? How about when he said he was rifling through the dead bodies looking for spare credits.
So can I go rob the bank and kill the guards and use the "they are opponents" defense.

[cronshaw8]

Jackal904 wrote...

What is the point of this thread? Of course everyone is going to say Jack or Morinth....

there really is no point anymore. There is one guy who has a thing for morinth and keeps trying to defend her by maligning jack. It is silly. Anyone who argues for anyone but morinth as the most evil isn't being rational. Morinth is irredeemably evil, duplicitous. She murders shepard. She encourages him to mate with her, knowing he'll die. Not caring that he saved her life. Whatever the reasons she is now completely evil. She is Milton's Satan:
"So farewell Hope, and with Hope farewell Fear, Farewll Remorse: all Good to me is lost; Evil be thou my Good."

[Atheist Peace]

Samara by a long distance.

[FlintlockJazz]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Lol.Good that i never watch this movie.
Expensive and valuable goods are protected by armed men/women.And some of them will do their job and get killed.
Wrex doesnt just stealing goods for saren,he and other mercs killed the protectors of the volus ship for saren.

Armed men and women aren't innocents, they're opponents.

EDIT: And because I can see this coming, no, that doesn't mean if Morinth's prey had a gun that it would be okay for her to kill them. The security detail during a mercenary job is simply an obstacle, not the target.

Wait wait! Are you defending Wrex's actions as "ok" because those armed security guards on a volus trading vessel shouldn't have tried to stop Saren's crew from robbing them? They had it coming? So Wrex wasn't commtting a crime? How about when he said he was rifling through the dead bodies looking for spare credits.
So can I go rob the bank and kill the guards and use the "they are opponents" defense.

Yes you can!  Go!  Go rob that bank!  Quickly now!

[MutantSpleen]

Luc0s wrote...

Freely wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

No but honestly, what does one more or less shot in someones head matter if Shepard and it's entire squad are killing lots of "baddies" on every mission anyway?

I think my lost point was that regardless of how we justify someone's actions, the act itself can still be evil.

More importantly, your post actually highlights the hypocracy of paragon Shep. We go round killing people without a care in the world and then Shep tries to talk down Garrus out of killing someone.

Paragon Shep definitely suffers from Bauer Syndrome, whereby the action is perfectly acceptable if Shep performs it, but abosutely not acceptable if someone else tries to pull the same stunt.

Of course, Shep might be talking Garrus down to save his soul. Who knows.

I get your point but you don't get mine I guess.

I mean seriously, saving Garrus' soul? Damn, only to get this far in his loyalty mission you already killed over 20 to 50 "bad guys" (aka. mercs) to get to the end of the mission. Now all of the sudden you would worry about one more kill because it could scar his poor soul? Haha! The irony...

I know,  paragon Shepard's hypocrisy is pretty bad. That's why I play
renegade. At least then we can all just say, yes we are killers, we
accept it. I am no better than anyone else

[MutantSpleen]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Lol.Good that i never watch this movie.
Expensive and valuable goods are protected by armed men/women.And some of them will do their job and get killed.
Wrex doesnt just stealing goods for saren,he and other mercs killed the protectors of the volus ship for saren.

Armed men and women aren't innocents, they're opponents.

EDIT: And because I can see this coming, no, that doesn't mean if Morinth's prey had a gun that it would be okay for her to kill them. The security detail during a mercenary job is simply an obstacle, not the target.

Wait wait! Are you defending Wrex's actions as "ok" because those armed security guards on a volus trading vessel shouldn't have tried to stop Saren's crew from robbing them? They had it coming? So Wrex wasn't commtting a crime? How about when he said he was rifling through the dead bodies looking for spare credits.
So can I go rob the bank and kill the guards and use the "they are opponents" defense.

Yes you can!  Go!  Go rob that bank!  Quickly now!

Mean, trying to get me in trouble.

[FlintlockJazz]

MutantSpleen wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Lol.Good that i never watch this movie.
Expensive and valuable goods are protected by armed men/women.And some of them will do their job and get killed.
Wrex doesnt just stealing goods for saren,he and other mercs killed the protectors of the volus ship for saren.

Armed men and women aren't innocents, they're opponents.

EDIT: And because I can see this coming, no, that doesn't mean if Morinth's prey had a gun that it would be okay for her to kill them. The security detail during a mercenary job is simply an obstacle, not the target.

Wait wait! Are you defending Wrex's actions as "ok" because those armed security guards on a volus trading vessel shouldn't have tried to stop Saren's crew from robbing them? They had it coming? So Wrex wasn't commtting a crime? How about when he said he was rifling through the dead bodies looking for spare credits.
So can I go rob the bank and kill the guards and use the "they are opponents" defense.

Yes you can!  Go!  Go rob that bank!  Quickly now!

Mean, trying to get me in trouble.

Me?  Never! :innocent:

[Kastien]

I'd say Morinth, but she's the easy choice. Aside from her, I'd say definitely Zaeed. He came off as a bit of a psychotic mad dog to me.

Grunt's not evil, he's just violent, there's a difference there. Jack's a bit on the crazed side, but I wouldn't necessarily say she's evil. Mordin isn't evil, he's just got a long world-view and places the needs of the galaxy over morality.



Zaeed seemed like the only one who really just didn't care about killing random people for no reason if it got what he wanted.

[ThatDancingTurian]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Wait wait! Are you defending Wrex's actions as "ok" because those armed security guards on a volus trading vessel shouldn't have tried to stop Saren's crew from robbing them? They had it coming? So Wrex wasn't commtting a crime? How about when he said he was rifling through the dead bodies looking for spare credits.
So can I go rob the bank and kill the guards and use the "they are opponents" defense.

No, that was just in response to the first part of his quote. I was talking about Jack, not Wrex, so I didn't bother replying to that. I should've just quoted the bit I was replying to.

And I never said anyone wasn't committing crime, I was just saying it wasn't 'evil'. Y'know, in comparison to the other not-Paragon things the rest of the crew has done.

[Marilynn-22]

Morinth-obvious reasons



Miranda-Cerberus cheerleaders always have something to hide