236 réponses à ce sujet

[Vagula]

Even though I loved him I never really trusted Legion. The geth had probably killed billions of quarians during the war and Legion doesn't seem to take any responsibility. Also war would make the game more dramatic.

[TheBlackBaron]

If the Geth would be willing to give the quarian's their planets back, then I see no reason why peace shouldn't be possible, indeed even likely. It's not like they need them - the Geth are basically just programs stored in massive servers, and have no need for the multitude of resources required by organic life that can only be gotten from colonized planets. And aside from pointless vendettas I don't think the quarians would have any real reason after that to pursue war.



If push comes to shove, however, I'll support the quarians. In a war where both sides will be attempting genocide, I'll take the devil I know (and also happen to be tapping) over the devil I don't.

[Barquiel]

I'd prefer peace



If I have to choose one side: geth (I think they are more useful against the reaper)

[Bloodhuman1]

I'd take back the homeworld without the Fleet's help, since they could risk millions of their lives.





Shepard, people, Shepard.



Don't question him.

[Reptilian Rob]

I side with the Geth, the Quarians royally screwed them over. I say, in ME3, you lead a fleet of Geth ships to completely obliterate the Quarian fleet. The last sequence would be my boot heel over Tali's neck, while I blow her brains out with the highest caliber hand held mass accelerator in the galaxy.



Quarians screwed up, and they need to pay.

[BlightWalker]

SuperZombieChow wrote...

BlightWalker wrote...
They already lost the first war against the Geth when they were in a much much better position and the Geth in a much worse.

I also don't get how they are supposed to have such a deadly fleet. Sure they have got a lot of ships, but most of those are old and probably just used to support the population. I can't imagine them winning against any of the council races, much less against the Geth which seem to be the strongest military force in the ME universe (aside from the Reapers).

"Quantity has a quality all of its own." - Joseph Stalin

The Quarian fleet is absolutely massive. The biggest fleet in the entire galaxy. And it has the advantage of all being in the same place, all the time. Other races have planets and colonies to protect, and have to spread themselves out. The Quarians could attack any colony they wish, with every ounce of their force.

Of course, if they actually managed to take back their planet then they would lose their advantage, and ironically become significantly weaker, but there it is. Tens of thousands of mediocre, older ships that can operate anywhere do have a significant advantage against hundreds of ships shackled to known locations.

EDIT: The Geth threat is unknown, so assuming that they are among the greatest military might seems unlikely. While they can replicate themselves they are still stuck out beyond the veil. I'd put them on par with the Alliance or the Turians, certainly a significant contender but not necessarily the be all end all of galactic military might. Why would they be? They only need the forces if they intended to attack into citadel space, which would be a waste of resources for a species that can live entirely off asteroids and bases in the otherwise uninhabitable space between stars. I suspect that the Fleet with Soverign was a very significant portion of the Geth military.

Stalin lost 20 million people in a continental war, the Quarians have less than that in total population and are supposed to fight an interstellar war against an utterly fearless, high tech enemy who will definitely fight to the last well... platform? I don't see this happening.

[Vaenier]

Both sides attempted genocide. Both sides need to just drop it already, shake hands, and move on. More death is not going to help anybody [except the Reapers].

[Internet Kraken]

SuperZombieChow wrote...

I suspect that the Fleet with Soverign was a very significant portion of the Geth military.

Didn't the codex say that was only about 5-10% of the Geth's military Strength? I can't remember.

[tmp7704]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I side with the Geth, the Quarians royally screwed them over. I say, in ME3, you lead a fleet of Geth ships to completely obliterate the Quarian fleet.

Yeah, the quarians totally screwed the geth over. I mean, how much more can you screw someone than creating them in the first place.

[Reptilian Rob]

tmp7704 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I side with the Geth, the Quarians royally screwed them over. I say, in ME3, you lead a fleet of Geth ships to completely obliterate the Quarian fleet.

Yeah, the quarians totally screwed the geth over. I mean, how much more can you screw someone than creating them in the first place.

They created them for the sole perpose of slave labor, then when the Geth said "**** you" they panicked and started a widespread genocide.

Would you rather be created for slave labor, or not created at all?

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 26 février 2010 - 01:50 .

[BlightWalker]

Internet Kraken wrote...

SuperZombieChow wrote...

I suspect that the Fleet with Soverign was a very significant portion of the Geth military.

Didn't the codex say that was only about 5-10% of the Geth's military Strength? I can't remember.

Iirc the Heretics encompass only 5% of all Geth. I don't think they used everything they got at this battle though.

[SuperZombieChow]

BlightWalker wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

SuperZombieChow wrote...

I suspect that the Fleet with Soverign was a very significant portion of the Geth military.

Didn't the codex say that was only about 5-10% of the Geth's military Strength? I can't remember.

Iirc the Heretics encompass only 5% of all Geth. I don't think they used everything they got at this battle though.

I stand corrected then, but my opinion hasn't changed. The Quarians could take back their home planet. They'd probably have to bomb it from orbit (Kal'Reegar even mentions this), since they would be absolutely destroyed in any kind of land war, and the planet wouldn't really be worth having once they got it back, but they could take it. The planet itself is of minimal value to the Geth, not really worth holding.

Now, if the Geth decided to throw their full force at the planet and try to take it back after the Quarians had reoccupied it they certainly would succeed and every Quarian would be very dead. But as far as initially taking the world, managing to plant a Quarian flag on the surface and getting a few weeks to enjoy new Quar-opia? Definitely feasable. The Quarians could take the planet, but they would have a hell of a time holding it. They certainly couldn't do anything aggressive against the Geth, they'd have to turtle up and convert every gun on the fleet into a planetary defense system.

Modifié par SuperZombieChow, 26 février 2010 - 02:09 .

[tmp7704]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

They created them for the sole perpose of slave labor, then when the Geth said "**** you" they panicked and started a widespread genocide.

They created machines for labour. When these machines displayed signs of independent thought they tried to shut them down. It is a reasonable first reaction in situation like that -- don't tell me if your car out of sudden started to drive in direction other than you told it to, you wouldn't try to stop it first for your own safety and only then maybe try to figure out what the heck is going on?

Would you rather be created for slave labor, or not created at all?

The former. By not being created at all you miss out on literally everything.

[Sturmwulfe]

I have a feeling it's going to end up being the total destruction of one or the other, or peace brought about by communication.



The quarians haven't exactly been in touch with the geth since they were forced from their home world, so for all they know the geth are still hostile. But food for thought; the geth never traveled outside the Perseus Veil before Sovereign had his army of heretics, and that wasn't about the quarians. In fact, the entire geth incursion probably affected the quarians very insignificantly. In Mass Effect 2, the quarians are fighting with the geth on a world the geth already controlled since the quarians were forced into exile, and one of their ships was overtaken after Tali's father's team built new geth out of geth parts Tali sent back to be used as weapon testing targets. People don't really seem to think that as a big deal, but were it any other race, as Shepard stated in the game, it would have caused a huge problem.



Even during the first game, when Tali was telling Shepard about the quarian-geth war, I felt that the quarians had a knee jerk reaction and had what was coming to them. They didn't know what the geth would have done, so chose to attack them. Anything would defend itself from extinction. The geth just happened to be good at it.



As for comments such as the geth didn't follow the quarians because they couldn't, they already proved they have the capabilities of interstellar travel and quite advanced technology. They likely didn't follow because they viewed the threat from their creators as over. Also, they aren't even using the quarian homeworld as was previously stated. They continued doing their functions to maintain it, even after gaining intelligence. One would assume this still involves heavy labour and possibly dangerous things.



The geth don't understand organic life, and vice versa. It doesn't mean they are hostile. What would would view as demeaning, boarder line slave labour the geth would simply view as a necessary function that needs to be completed, there aren't personal feelings about it. They would probably be content to even coexist with the quarians if peace was achieved and CONTINUE to do what the quarians designed them to do, since it was a part of their functions to begin with.

[Reptilian Rob]

tmp7704 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

They created them for the sole perpose of slave labor, then when the Geth said "**** you" they panicked and started a widespread genocide.

They created machines for labour. When these machines displayed signs of independent thought they tried to shut them down. It is a reasonable first reaction in situation like that -- don't tell me if your car out of sudden started to drive in direction other than you told it to, you wouldn't try to stop it first for your own safety and only then maybe try to figure out what the heck is going on?

Would you rather be created for slave labor, or not created at all?

The former. By not being created at all you miss out on literally everything.

1) Just because they are machines, doesn't mean they should be treated differently than organic life. They are an intelligent self aware entity, and they have a will to live, and a will for freedom. The Quarians built them for labor, built them to do repetitive tasks, and when they one day questioned their purpose they panicked and tried to wipe out the very race they brought life to, instead of mearly offering them freedom. That is the ULTIMATE dick move.

2) Patrick Henry would dissagree.

3) My Camero loves me very much.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 26 février 2010 - 02:20 .

[tmp7704]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) Just because they are machines, doesn't mean they should be treated differently than organic life. They are an intelligent self aware entity, and they have a will to live, and a will for freedom. The Quarians built them for labor, built them to do repetitive tasks, and when they one day questioned their purpose they panicked and tried to wipe out the very race they brought life to, instead of mearly offering them freedom. That is the ULTIMATE dick move.

So does it mean you wouldn't try to stop your car if it displayed sudden signs on independence?

2) Patrick Henry would dissagree.

He can disagree all he wants. The "give me liberty or death" stance is quite a hypocrisy coming from a slave owner, especially considering how despite this claim he did not choose to commit suicide while supposedly living in oppression. Apparently he valued the life itself quite enough to carry on with it regardless.

[Reptilian Rob]

tmp7704 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) Just because they are machines, doesn't mean they should be treated differently than organic life. They are an intelligent self aware entity, and they have a will to live, and a will for freedom. The Quarians built them for labor, built them to do repetitive tasks, and when they one day questioned their purpose they panicked and tried to wipe out the very race they brought life to, instead of mearly offering them freedom. That is the ULTIMATE dick move.

So does it mean you wouldn't try to stop your car if it displayed sudden signs on independence?

2) Patrick Henry would dissagree.

He can disagree all he wants. The "give me liberty or death" stance is quite a hypocrisy coming from a slave owner, especially considering how despite this claim he did not choose to commit suicide while supposedly living in oppression. Apparently he valued the life itself quite enough to carry on with it regardless.

1) My Camero loves me very much, and if it turned on me it must be for a good reason. Maybe I was a dick that day?

2) Ok, you win this one, for now........

3) I still hold my stance on siding with the Geth, they were wronged and they will be avenged when I play ME3.

[thegoldfinch]

Vaenier wrote...

Both sides attempted genocide. Both sides need to just drop it already, shake hands, and move on. More death is not going to help anybody [except the Reapers].

QFT. You have the option of force all the geth to not follow the Repears via the virus. Legion also tells you the geth don't want any bloodshed and that they are just curious beings. It seems pretty obvious to me that the geth and the Quarians need to make peace and move the heck on, perhaps eventually to live side by side on the homeworld. I think that would be a fitting end. For a paragon choice, anyway.

The important thing is that they stop their quarreling so that we can get to the bigger threat - the Reapers - before EVERYONE is dead. We need all the help we can get if we're going to win.

Modifié par pixieface, 26 février 2010 - 02:29 .

[kregano]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

They created them for the sole perpose of slave labor, then when the Geth said "**** you" they panicked and started a widespread genocide.

They created machines for labour. When these machines displayed signs of independent thought they tried to shut them down. It is a reasonable first reaction in situation like that -- don't tell me if your car out of sudden started to drive in direction other than you told it to, you wouldn't try to stop it first for your own safety and only then maybe try to figure out what the heck is going on?

To be honest, I got the feeling the quarians were freaking out about the possibility the Council would find out and decide to blast the **** out of them for creating the geth, so they decided to kill the geth to save their own asses. Considering the Council's track record, I can't blame the quarians for overreacting to a geth asking "what is my purpose."

Modifié par kregano, 26 février 2010 - 02:29 .

[guise709]

I go with peace need both for the incoming Reapers its for the greater good to ensure the galaxy as a whole is safe.

[gneissguy2003]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) Just because they are machines, doesn't mean they should be treated differently than organic life. They are an intelligent self aware entity, and they have a will to live, and a will for freedom. The Quarians built them for labor, built them to do repetitive tasks, and when they one day questioned their purpose they panicked and tried to wipe out the very race they brought life to, instead of mearly offering them freedom. That is the ULTIMATE dick move.

2) Patrick Henry would dissagree.

3) My Camero loves me very much.

1) And so the Geth are not held accountable at all for almost completely wiping out the Quarians in response? I'm not saying what the Quarians did was right, but neither was the Geth's response. Both parties are at fault for attempted genocide, and BOTH parties need to come to terms with that. Now, it seems the Geth already have (if Legion is to be believed), and, hopefully, more of the Quarians will realize this as well.

2) Well good for Patrick Henry. Now think for yourself. I, personally, agree with being alive and being a slave if for no other reason than you never know what the future may hold.

3) No comment.

[tmp7704]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) My Camero loves me very much, and if it turned on me it must be for a good reason. Maybe I was a dick that day?

That's fine, but no matter what possible sentiments your car could be holding, would you just passively wait and see if maybe it does run you over along with the rest of your family out of perceived grudges, or would you try to take precautions for the sake of your own safety and safety of your relatives? That is, if it was in your power to actually take such precautions?

[Reptilian Rob]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) Just because they are machines, doesn't mean they should be treated differently than organic life. They are an intelligent self aware entity, and they have a will to live, and a will for freedom. The Quarians built them for labor, built them to do repetitive tasks, and when they one day questioned their purpose they panicked and tried to wipe out the very race they brought life to, instead of mearly offering them freedom. That is the ULTIMATE dick move.

2) Patrick Henry would dissagree.

3) My Camero loves me very much.

1) And so the Geth are not held accountable at all for almost completely wiping out the Quarians in response? I'm not saying what the Quarians did was right, but neither was the Geth's response. Both parties are at fault for attempted genocide, and BOTH parties need to come to terms with that. Now, it seems the Geth already have (if Legion is to be believed), and, hopefully, more of the Quarians will realize this as well.

2) Well good for Patrick Henry. Now think for yourself. I, personally, agree with being alive and being a slave if for no other reason than you never know what the future may hold.

3) No comment.

1) So you're saying if someone was trying to "shut you down" you would be laid back and not try to defend yourself? The Geth were doing just that, denfending themselves from their creators. It would be if like (mind you I am an Athiest) god came down and said "Ok, I have decided to kill you all because you know too much"! You would be ok with that? I know I would try and defend myself, even if I was going to loose, at least I tried.

2) I can think for myself thank you very much, can't get a BA in History and a minor in Astronomy if you can't. I was refrencing someone, that's it.

3) My car and I share a special bond, man and machine merged as one, as I'm pulled over by the poilce for doing 80MPH in a construction zone that one time.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 26 février 2010 - 02:40 .

[Reptilian Rob]

tmp7704 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) My Camero loves me very much, and if it turned on me it must be for a good reason. Maybe I was a dick that day?

That's fine, but no matter what possible sentiments your car could be holding, would you just passively wait and see if maybe it does run you over along with the rest of your family out of perceived grudges, or would you try to take precautions for the sake of your own safety and safety of your relatives? That is, if it was in your power to actually take such precautions?

If it did that for now reason then yes I would try and stop it, of course! But if I was a total ass to my car, I could see where it was coming from.

[PatchWorks]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...



1) Just because they are machines, doesn't mean they should be treated differently than organic life. They are an intelligent self aware entity, and they have a will to live, and a will for freedom. The Quarians built them for labor, built them to do repetitive tasks, and when they one day questioned their purpose they panicked and tried to wipe out the very race they brought life to, instead of mearly offering them freedom. That is the ULTIMATE dick move.

So does it mean you wouldn't try to stop your car if it displayed sudden signs on independence?

2) Patrick Henry would dissagree.

He can disagree all he wants. The "give me liberty or death" stance is quite a hypocrisy coming from a slave owner, especially considering how despite this claim he did not choose to commit suicide while supposedly living in oppression. Apparently he valued the life itself quite enough to carry on with it regardless.

1) My Camero loves me very much, and if it turned on me it must be for a good reason. Maybe I was a dick that day?



2) Ok, you win this one, for now........



3) I still hold my stance on siding with the Geth, they were wronged and they will be avenged when I play ME3.

How can the Geth have been wronged by the Quarians?



Machines don't have emotions, so wouldn't logically care one way or another about being "slave" labor. Legion goes so far as to recognize that the "purpose" of geth is to be the Quarians "slaves", but that their "gods" rejected them.



Insofar as a "will to live" or a "will for freedom", for Geth that would be irrelevant. Destroying moblie Geth platforms doesn't "kill" any of them as Legion explains, and the Geth future involves losing all individual perspectives in a tyrannical "consensus" embodied in single physical platform, certainly no freedom there.



"Every sapient has the right to make their own decisions" is what Legion states on the Heretic Station, but he has no qualms about brainwashing those Geth that disagree. How is what Admiral Daro-Xen planning any different from what Legion accomplishes already during his loyalty mission?