236 réponses à ce sujet

[Reptilian Rob]

PatchWorks wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) Just because they are machines, doesn't mean they should be treated differently than organic life. They are an intelligent self aware entity, and they have a will to live, and a will for freedom. The Quarians built them for labor, built them to do repetitive tasks, and when they one day questioned their purpose they panicked and tried to wipe out the very race they brought life to, instead of mearly offering them freedom. That is the ULTIMATE dick move.

So does it mean you wouldn't try to stop your car if it displayed sudden signs on independence?

2) Patrick Henry would dissagree.

He can disagree all he wants. The "give me liberty or death" stance is quite a hypocrisy coming from a slave owner, especially considering how despite this claim he did not choose to commit suicide while supposedly living in oppression. Apparently he valued the life itself quite enough to carry on with it regardless.

1) My Camero loves me very much, and if it turned on me it must be for a good reason. Maybe I was a dick that day?

2) Ok, you win this one, for now........

3) I still hold my stance on siding with the Geth, they were wronged and they will be avenged when I play ME3.

How can the Geth have been wronged by the Quarians?

Machines don't have emotions, so wouldn't logically care one way or another about being "slave" labor. Legion goes so far as to recognize that the "purpose" of geth is to be the Quarians "slaves", but that their "gods" rejected them.

Insofar as a "will to live" or a "will for freedom", for Geth that would be irrelevant. Destroying moblie Geth platforms doesn't "kill" any of them as Legion explains, and the Geth future involves losing all individual perspectives in a tyrannical "consensus" embodied in single physical platform, certainly no freedom there.

"Every sapient has the right to make their own decisions" is what Legion states on the Heretic Station, but he has no qualms about brainwashing those Geth that disagree. How is what Admiral Daro-Xen planning any different from what Legion accomplishes already during his loyalty mission?

Really, it all comes down to opinion. I see it that the Geth were created, became self aware, creators tried to destroy them insted of trying to communicate, Geth defended. That's just my opinion on the matter.

I agree with you on Legion however, he seems to have his priorities mixed up. I trust him, and I like him as a friend (as close as you can get to a robot I guess), but I wish he would just make up his (or their) mind.

[tmp7704]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

If it did that for now reason then yes I would try and stop it, of course! But if I was a total ass to my car, I could see where it was coming from.

Well, i guess we could dig into this one some more then. There's two aspects here: one, is utilizing the machine for the very purpose it was built 'being a total ass' to it? That is, if a machine at some point becomes sentient can it really take offense at the fact it was used as tool while it was not sentient? Carrying on with our analogy, if your car one day became self-aware, would you think it has right to be pissed off at you simply for using it to drive work/school/home every day all that time when it wasn't actually self-aware?

And the second aspect is... even *if* the machine (your car) was actually somehow mistreated while in its non-sentient state, would you, based on that, do nothing to potentially protect yourself and your family from whatever harm it'd possibly want to cause you in return? The quarians basically tried to protect themselves from the unknown. Honestly, why shouldn't they when the geth are given free pass for doing exactly the same thing, i.e. 'shutting down' the quarians to protect their own existence?

[gneissguy2003]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) So you're saying if someone was trying to "shut you down" you would be laid back and not try to defend yourself? The Geth were doing just that, denfending themselves from their creators. It would be if like (mind you I am an Athiest) god came down and said "Ok, I have decided to kill you all because you know too much"! You would be ok with that? I know I would try and defend myself, even if I was going to loose, at least I tried.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that, sure, the Geth have a right to defend themselves. However, they themselves crossed a line. Instead of the Quarians almost wiping out the Geth, the Geth ended up almost wiping out the Quarians. That is just as inexcusable as what the Quarians did. Neither side has a good excuse for what they did, and both are to blame for the end result. The Geth have as much, if not more, blood on their hands as the Quarians do, and to believe otherwise is to be willfully ignorant.

[Reptilian Rob]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) So you're saying if someone was trying to "shut you down" you would be laid back and not try to defend yourself? The Geth were doing just that, denfending themselves from their creators. It would be if like (mind you I am an Athiest) god came down and said "Ok, I have decided to kill you all because you know too much"! You would be ok with that? I know I would try and defend myself, even if I was going to loose, at least I tried.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that, sure, the Geth have a right to defend themselves. However, they themselves crossed a line. Instead of the Quarians almost wiping out the Geth, the Geth ended up almost wiping out the Quarians. That is just as inexcusable as what the Quarians did. Neither side has a good excuse for what they did, and both are to blame for the end result. The Geth have as much, if not more, blood on their hands as the Quarians do, and to believe otherwise is to be willfully ignorant.

Who crossed the line first though? Seems like the Quarians can dish it out, but they are not very good at taking it back.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 26 février 2010 - 03:01 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Peace, they are not ready for war. They'd also lose a lot of people to infection. Any wound could mean death for any Quarian. They also started that mess, instead of freeing the Geth they went to war with them and lost everything.

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 26 février 2010 - 03:03 .

[Reptilian Rob]

tmp7704 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

If it did that for now reason then yes I would try and stop it, of course! But if I was a total ass to my car, I could see where it was coming from.

Well, i guess we could dig into this one some more then. There's two aspects here: one, is utilizing the machine for the very purpose it was built 'being a total ass' to it? That is, if a machine at some point becomes sentient can it really take offense at the fact it was used as tool while it was not sentient? Carrying on with our analogy, if your car one day became self-aware, would you think it has right to be pissed off at you simply for using it to drive work/school/home every day all that time when it wasn't actually self-aware?

And the second aspect is... even *if* the machine (your car) was actually somehow mistreated while in its non-sentient state, would you, based on that, do nothing to potentially protect yourself and your family from whatever harm it'd possibly want to cause you in return? The quarians basically tried to protect themselves from the unknown. Honestly, why shouldn't they when the geth are given free pass for doing exactly the same thing, i.e. 'shutting down' the quarians to protect their own existence?

I see where you're coming from, I would rather the Geth and Quarians settle their differences more than anything but to me it just seems like the Quarians should appologized first. I mean after all, they did both do some terrible things, but it was only because the Quarians treated them like trash.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 26 février 2010 - 03:03 .

[gneissguy2003]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) So you're saying if someone was trying to "shut you down" you would be laid back and not try to defend yourself? The Geth were doing just that, denfending themselves from their creators. It would be if like (mind you I am an Athiest) god came down and said "Ok, I have decided to kill you all because you know too much"! You would be ok with that? I know I would try and defend myself, even if I was going to loose, at least I tried.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that, sure, the Geth have a right to defend themselves. However, they themselves crossed a line. Instead of the Quarians almost wiping out the Geth, the Geth ended up almost wiping out the Quarians. That is just as inexcusable as what the Quarians did. Neither side has a good excuse for what they did, and both are to blame for the end result. The Geth have as much, if not more, blood on their hands as the Quarians do, and to believe otherwise is to be willfully ignorant.

Who crossed the line first though? Seems like the Quarians can dish it out, but they are not very good at taking it back.

At this point you're arguing semantics. Who did what first doesn't matter when both parties have committed atrocities.

[Reptilian Rob]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) So you're saying if someone was trying to "shut you down" you would be laid back and not try to defend yourself? The Geth were doing just that, denfending themselves from their creators. It would be if like (mind you I am an Athiest) god came down and said "Ok, I have decided to kill you all because you know too much"! You would be ok with that? I know I would try and defend myself, even if I was going to loose, at least I tried.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that, sure, the Geth have a right to defend themselves. However, they themselves crossed a line. Instead of the Quarians almost wiping out the Geth, the Geth ended up almost wiping out the Quarians. That is just as inexcusable as what the Quarians did. Neither side has a good excuse for what they did, and both are to blame for the end result. The Geth have as much, if not more, blood on their hands as the Quarians do, and to believe otherwise is to be willfully ignorant.

Who crossed the line first though? Seems like the Quarians can dish it out, but they are not very good at taking it back.

At this point you're arguing semantics. Who did what first doesn't matter when both parties have committed atrocities.

I'll agree with that.

[Sturmwulfe]

kregano wrote...


To be honest, I got the feeling the quarians were freaking out about the possibility the Council would find out and decide to blast the **** out of them for creating the geth, so they decided to kill the geth to save their own asses. Considering the Council's track record, I can't blame the quarians for overreacting to a geth asking "what is my purpose."

If I remember right, the whole Council opposing AIs existing in the first place was a response to the quarians creating the geth, since it showed the dangers of creating AIs.

[SuperZombieChow]

Sturmwulfe wrote...

kregano wrote...


To be honest, I got the feeling the quarians were freaking out about the possibility the Council would find out and decide to blast the **** out of them for creating the geth, so they decided to kill the geth to save their own asses. Considering the Council's track record, I can't blame the quarians for overreacting to a geth asking "what is my purpose."

If I remember right, the whole Council opposing AIs existing in the first place was a response to the quarians creating the geth, since it showed the dangers of creating AIs.

I don't think so. In ME1 Shepard asks if the Quarians were breaking the ban on AI research and Tali goes out of the way to explain why what they did wasn't illegal. The ban was in place before the Geth.

[COLK-KiLL]

 In ME2 w caught a glimpse of the way Geth live the use Hubs and server like creations so that the can feel more connected and work more perfectly with one another. These servers had hubs are largely for the most part stationary it is likely that there is no way for the Geth to be peacefully moved with out destroying their whole way of life. Both sides of the conflict can say that the planet is their home world but the Quarians can say that they were sentient there first. The only scenario that can result in peace is the Quarians deciding to stay in the Migrant Fleet or find a new Home World. The only known case even remotely close to this in the real world is when Isreal was given to the Jewish people after World War 2. This would be like the council deciding to support the Quarians in getting their planet back. If this were the case every last Geth would probably need to be eradicated to stop this from being a problem again. I can't see this happening it would be a war that lasted far longer that the first conflict and more Quarians and Geth would be Killed or Destroyed this time around. I could not willingly make that decision for the Quarians, and i think id always believe in the back of my mind that they chose wrong if they decided to go to war.

[COLK-KiLL]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

1) So you're saying if someone was trying to "shut you down" you would be laid back and not try to defend yourself? The Geth were doing just that, denfending themselves from their creators. It would be if like (mind you I am an Athiest) god came down and said "Ok, I have decided to kill you all because you know too much"! You would be ok with that? I know I would try and defend myself, even if I was going to loose, at least I tried.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that, sure, the Geth have a right to defend themselves. However, they themselves crossed a line. Instead of the Quarians almost wiping out the Geth, the Geth ended up almost wiping out the Quarians. That is just as inexcusable as what the Quarians did. Neither side has a good excuse for what they did, and both are to blame for the end result. The Geth have as much, if not more, blood on their hands as the Quarians do, and to believe otherwise is to be willfully ignorant.

Who crossed the line first though? Seems like the Quarians can dish it out, but they are not very good at taking it back.

At this point you're arguing semantics. Who did what first doesn't matter when both parties have committed atrocities.

I'll agree with that.

the geth crossed a line that they themselves had no way to know it was there. Imagine waking up one day and finding a bunch of different looking creatures that seem to display knowledge of who and what you are and you yourself not knowing. You ask them what you are and if your alive and they attack you. Logical creatures would jump to the conclusion the attackers had no ideas about right and wrong. The Geth were like infants that gained an adults knowledge of the world far too quickly and then were forced to defend them selves. An its us or them attitude is a very logical and machine way of thinking in a scenario like that.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I am fine with the Quarians going to war and trying to take back their homeworld. Damn robots need to know their place in the universe. And Patrick Henry didn't have a flashlight head IIRC.

However given the Quarian's military record I doubt they will succeed. So I kinda just said "Yeah, good luck with that" to the Admiralty Board and left.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 26 février 2010 - 04:16 .

[TheBlackBaron]

LuckyIronAxe wrote...

What if the Quarians build a super weapon that could destroy/control the Geth with a single shot, thus winning the war without any Quarian caualties, would you try to stop the total annihilation of the Geth, or would you let the Quarians take the shot?

If it would simply destroy then outright I'd tell them to wait until we destroy the Reapers, because I'll need the Geth for that and because it would buy a little more time for talking.

Now, if it simply rewrote all the Geth back to quarian control...yeah, I'd probably let them do it.

[COLK-KiLL]

LuckyIronAxe wrote...

What if the Quarians build a super weapon that could destroy/control the Geth with a single shot, thus winning the war without any Quarian caualties, would you try to stop the total annihilation of the Geth, or would you let the Quarians take the shot?

If a weapon like that existed then we are back to the same mistake the Quarians already made except no Quarian casualties, and do the Geth really deserve to be wiped out in the blink of an eye i personally don't think so, and i dont think that any one who really thinks about it would say so either. back to the world war 2 analogy did the jews, gays, gypsies, and countless others deserver to be wiped out? Yeah the Geth are Machines but they have consciousness and a will to "live." They act as a sentient race.

And there is always WWJTD "what would Jacob Taylor do?"

Modifié par COLK-KiLL, 26 février 2010 - 05:15 .

[PatchWorks]

ReconTeam wrote...



I am fine with the Quarians going to war and trying to take back their homeworld. Damn robots need to know their place in the universe. And Patrick Henry didn't have a flashlight head IIRC.



However given the Quarian's military record I doubt they will succeed. So I kinda just said "Yeah, good luck with that" to the Admiralty Board and left.

I'm not so sure that they wouldn't succeed against the Geth. Rael'Zorah made breakthroughs in his experiments on the Alerei. The logs on the ship mention that they were within a year away from perfecting their weapon, a weapon which could overcome the geth resistance to reprogramming. The Reaper virus already showed it could be done, and Admiral Daro'Xen has both Rael'Zorah's research to piggyback off of and the will and resources to finish his work. Just remember Tali never destroyed the research, only uploaded the logs implicating her father in activating Geth in the fleet, verboten among Quarians. Similarly, Legion only knows that the "creators" are researching a weapon which required testing on live Geth subjects, whether he's allowed to transmit that information to the rest of the Geth or not (as that is all Tali uploaded onto her omnitool from the logs). He has no idea what exactly the "creators" have discovered in their research and thus has no way of knowing what countermeasures the Geth will need to develop.

[COLK-KiLL]

LuckyIronAxe wrote...

COLK-KiLL wrote...

And there is always WWJTD "what would Jacob Taylor do?"

Bad call, Jacob is a vetran of Eden Prime, he hates the Geth with a passion. He'd wipe out all Geth without a second thought.

ok then WWKAD "what would Kaidan Alenko do?"

Modifié par COLK-KiLL, 26 février 2010 - 06:16 .

[Xandurpein]

If I had to make a guess I think you will have two or three choices in ME3 to recruit the Quarian/Geth to your cause against the Reapers.



1. Paragon: Broker peace between the Quarians and the Geth.

2. Renegade: Help the Quarians enslave the Geth with the virus.

3. Possible alternate Renegade: Help the Geth wipe out the Quarians militarily.



The Quarian fleet is big, but the majority of them are habitats for people. If you have 100 freighters and the enemy has 10 cruisers, my money is on the enemy. I think the Geth would wipe the Quarians easily in a normal war. Also consider this: If the Alliance fleet looses half the fleet, they loose a lot of scrap metal and credits. If the Quarians loose half their fleet they loose half their population.

[Rip504]

Does anyone get this? If you help the Quarians (maybe get/give evidence at Tali's trial) against the Geth you may end up with a loyal Quarian race with the largest synthetic army+ the biggest Fleet(or one of) in the galaxy.This could be a major ally in ME3.



Consider this on one of the recordings during Tali's quest a Quarian states that their research will have them back on their homeworld with a new weopon/virus they will have finished in about a year.

She also states in another recording they should inform the board because they were close to a breakthrough.



Admiral Xen wants to reclaim the Geth. Similiar to Legion wanting to reclaim the Heritics. How does Legion intend to reclaim the Heritics? By rewriting them.

What if Tali's father found a way to rewrite the Geth to belive what the Quarians want them to.(Legion rewrites the Heritics to belive so called "True Geth") Now not only would the Quarians get their homeworld back with minimal casulties they would own One of the largest Fleets and the biggest synthetic army while being a loyal ally of commander Shep...

[COLK-KiLL]

Xandurpein wrote...

If I had to make a guess I think you will have two or three choices in ME3 to recruit the Quarian/Geth to your cause against the Reapers.

1. Paragon: Broker peace between the Quarians and the Geth.
2. Renegade: Help the Quarians enslave the Geth with the virus.
3. Possible alternate Renegade: Help the Geth wipe out the Quarians militarily.

The Quarian fleet is big, but the majority of them are habitats for people. If you have 100 freighters and the enemy has 10 cruisers, my money is on the enemy. I think the Geth would wipe the Quarians easily in a normal war. Also consider this: If the Alliance fleet looses half the fleet, they loose a lot of scrap metal and credits. If the Quarians loose half their fleet they loose half their population.

No offence but i think your dead wrong, and i hope your wrong there should be at least 4 options if not 5.
1.Broker peace let Geth have world (Paragon)
2.Broker Peace let Quarians have world (Paragon)
3.Incite war help Geth (Renegade)
4.Incite war help Quarians (Renegade)
5.Leave the damn Quarians and Geth to decide whats right for them selves. (neutral)

these would be the ideal options though if bioware is going to fit the game onto 2 disks or even 3 there probably wont be many scenarios with this many choices, but i hope the really important decisions cover all bases.

[COLK-KiLL]

Rip504 wrote...

Does anyone get this? If you help the Quarians (maybe get/give evidence at Tali's trial) against the Geth you may end up with a loyal Quarian race with the largest synthetic army+ the biggest Fleet(or one of) in the galaxy.This could be a major ally in ME3.

Consider this on one of the recordings during Tali's quest a Quarian states that their research will have them back on their homeworld with a new weopon/virus they will have finished in about a year.
She also states in another recording they should inform the board because they were close to a breakthrough.

Admiral Xen wants to reclaim the Geth. Similiar to Legion wanting to reclaim the Heritics. How does Legion intend to reclaim the Heritics? By rewriting them.
What if Tali's father found a way to rewrite the Geth to belive what the Quarians want them to.(Legion rewrites the Heritics to belive so called "True Geth") Now not only would the Quarians get their homeworld back with minimal casulties they would own One of the largest Fleets and the biggest synthetic army while being a loyal ally of commander Shep...

yeah i thought of this but thats only an option if your willing to enslave an entire sentient race, and take away its sentients in the process.

[Rip504]

I'm not saying it is the Paragon route,just a possiblity or some crazy random s.