23 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramikadyc]

The powers in ME2 are great, but my biggest issue comes with AI Hacking--it's pretty much the only ability that can be considered useless in many cases, since the only way for it to have any effect is to use it on a synthetic target. And there aren't even any targets to use it on in the final mission of the game. To a lesser extent, Dominate also falls into this category, but it is an optional power that classes are not built upon, and there are usually organic enemies everywhere.

Please don't mistake this post: AI Hacking is a great ability when it's usable, one of the most powerful even. The problem is that there are many times in the game where characters essentially become less useful because they lack a usable power, and since squadmates only have a few abilities, this really hurts their effectiveness. I'm not complaining about it being unusable on specific enemies, I'm complaining about it being completely unusable in large chunks of the game. If I take Tali and Legion with me during the suicide mission (or to numerous other missions), they have effectively lost an ability because they have no one to use it on, and if I'm playing as an Engineer I have also lost an ability.

So what can be done to fix it? Let AI Hacking have a secondary effect at a higher rank. For example, Overload at base level is useless in parts of the game where there are no synthetic enemies and no targets use shields, however at rank 3 Overload is capable of overheating weapons, which makes it useful in every situation. Likewise, maybe give AI Hacking an additional ability at rank 3 that scrambles the targeting computer in enemies weapons, reducing their accuracy, that way AI Hacking is still useful when there are no synthetics around. That's just a quick example from a gamer, as I'm sure there are better effects that can be applied that developers can dream up.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Maybe an idea of a secondary effect that AI Hacking can have? I don't believe this to be a major issue, but it is troublesome, as other characters always have abilities that are usable-- even if their effectiveness is at a minimum on some targets, I can't think of other situations in the game where other characters and classes have this problem, especially not the suicide mission.

===Below has been added from a later post in this same thread==
Some ideas I've thought of that would add additional utility to AI
Hacking while at the same time staying within the boundries and
concepts of what AI Hacking is:


AI Hacking: Temporarily
hacks a synthetic enemy so it will attack its former allies. Also
generates a temporary shield around the hacked target so it can fight
more effectively against its allies. In addition:

• If your target is organic, their weapon's targeting computer is scrambled instead, reducing their accuracy for a short time.
• If
  your target is using a heavy weapon, its mass accelerator is sabotaged
  instead, giving the weapon a small chance to misfire in the target's
  hands, causing damage to anyone in the blast radius.
• If
  your target is wearing armor, their hardsuit's computer paramaters are
  modified instead, malfunctioning electro-mechanical joints and reducing
  movement speed.
• Omni-tool and biotic implant
  computing functions are reset, preventing your target from using tech
  and biotic abilities for a short time.
• If
  your target is organic, their radio communications are altered, filling
  their speakers with blaring classical music from The Jonas Brothers,
  resulting in a variety of effects including but not limited to panick,
  crying, headbutting walls, curling up into the fetal position, a new
  life strategy, and suicide.
  

As you can see,
there are many different ways to improve AI Hacking so that it is
useful on every mission, but at the same time keeping it both in line
with the concept of AI Hacking and (aside from the last example)
balanced in power. I'm just a guy who plays video games, so there's
probably several other unique abilities that can be thought up by the
people who are paid to imagine these things.



[*]
=======

Another idea that just came to me while playing ME2:

AI Hacking: Temporarily hacks a synthetic enemy so it will attack
its former allies. Also generates a temporary shield around the hacked
target so it can fight more effectively against its allies. In addition:
Using
this ability on yours or any other Combat Drone will instantly detonate
it, creating an explosion that briefly stuns targets caught in the
blast radius (additionally causes Explosive Drone to detonate with 20%
more force and damage)
Note:
this proposed idea suggests that the detonating drones "stun" targets
for a brief period, as opposed to knocking them down and dealing damage
like the Explosive Drone does. This ensures that Explosive Drone stays
unique in ability, but gives you an additional option to detonate it
prematurely for increased effect. This concept works with the available
powers in the game, requiring very little development change. The
effects of using this ability, like any other suggestion I've made,
should be open to interpretation--that is to say, these are meant to be
general concepts and not my wishes for final changes.

Modifié par Ramikadyc, 05 mars 2010 - 01:02 .

[We Tigers]

Well, they do still both have combat drone (and in Legion's case, the Widow, which is even more useful than any of his abilities).  I think part of the reason Bioware gave us so many different party members was because some combos would obviously be better for certain missions. 

A secondary effect for hacking could be fun, but kind of unnecessary.  For player characters, I don't think it really hurts engineers since most of their abilities outside of the awesome drone are focused on a single type of damage/control anyway (cryo for health, overload for shields, incinerate for armor, hacking for synthetics).  On infiltrators, it's only worth a single point anyway, since cloak and ammo powers are really the driving force of that class.  I don't disagree that it's one of the weaker overall powers, but the contrast is that you get a lot of its value out of it for very little investment. 

[Ramikadyc]

I agree with the issue regarding choosing correct party members based on the mission, but I think what really made me notice the problem was the final mission. I took Tali and Legion as my companions for the Suicide Mission on my third playthrough--I like to pick two or three people and stick with them on certain playthroughs--and I noticed how unfortunate it all was. Everyone else has multiple abilities, all of which help on the Suicide Mission, of which the whole game is based around, and it left me scratching my head that the two people I had picked were unwittingly at a disadvantage due to their inability to utilize their entire arsenal. One would think that, from a design standpoint, the final mission would suit everyone's style in a different way, and it just wasn't so. Don't get me wrong, I typically play on Hardcore difficulty and I had little trouble completing the mission, but it just seems an unfair disadvantage. I knew what to expect during that mission at that point, and could have thought it out and selected the perfect team, but that doesn't excuse the rendering useless of squad powers, in my opinion, and I shouldn't have to tell my love interest who always fights by my side and my machine buddy that they're sidelined because of it.



I'm not asking for a complete overhaul, I just want to see a minor upgrade. I don't believe that to be unnecessary; I firmly believe that everyone, including anyone who disagrees with my opinions on this matter, would welcome the addition of an improved AI Hacking--why wouldn't they? It makes their game that much more interesting and opens the door for additional battle tactics with specific squadmates. People feel two ways: either they dislike the fact that the power is useless on the Suicide Mission, or they don't mind it--that means any additional utility should be welcomed with open arms, so I can't imagine why anyone would be against it.

[Chimpeau]

Ramikadyc wrote...



Please don't mistake this post: AI Hacking is a great ability when it's usable, one of the most powerful even.

Looks like problem solved.



But in seriousness, I like the additional secondary effect, investing heavily is not worth a few extra shields.

[Average Gatsby]

Personally I think AI hack is fine. I just don't keep it along with me until the missions where I face geth. Very few missions have a mix of mechs/geth and organics, and Mechs with there simple AI are pretty simple to kill.



I respec in and out AI hack for the missions I need it, and I usually abandon Incinerate because it is so useless against Synthetics.

[Ramikadyc]

Some ideas I've thought of that would add additional utility to AI Hacking while at the same time staying within the boundries and concepts of what AI Hacking is:


AI Hacking: Temporarily hacks a synthetic enemy so it will attack its former allies. Also generates a temporary shield around the hacked target so it can fight more effectively against its allies. In addition:

• If your target is organic, their weapon's targeting computer is scrambled instead, reducing their accuracy for a short time.
• If your target is using a heavy weapon, its mass accelerator is sabotaged instead, giving the weapon a small chance to misfire in the target's hands, causing damage to anyone in the blast radius.
• If your target is wearing armor, their hardsuit's computer paramaters are modified instead, malfunctioning electro-mechanical joints and reducing movement speed.
• Omni-tool and biotic implant computing functions are reset, preventing your target from using tech and biotic abilities for a short time.
• If your target is organic, their radio communications are altered, filling their speakers with blaring classical music from The Jonas Brothers, resulting in a variety of effects including but not limited to panick, crying, headbutting walls, curling up into the fetal position, a new life strategy, and suicide.
  

As you can see, there are many different ways to improve AI Hacking so that it is useful on every mission, but at the same time keeping it both in line with the concept of AI Hacking and (aside from the last example) balanced in power. I'm just a guy who plays video games, so there's probably several other unique abilities that can be thought up by the people who are paid to imagine these things.

[Jester8183]

Ramikadyc wrote...

# If your target is organic, their radio communications are altered, filling their speakers with blaring classical music from The Jonas Brothers, resulting in a variety of effects including but not limited to panick, crying, headbutting walls, curling up into the fetal position, a new life strategy, and suicide.

You may be on to something here. Joking aside it could give organics a incinerate kinda animation. And instead of music it could be say loud feadback for a .5 to 2 seconds. I say only a second or two max since the power is designed for synthetics primarily.

[Ramikadyc]

Jester8183 wrote...

Ramikadyc wrote...
# If your target is organic, their radio communications are altered, filling their speakers with blaring classical music from The Jonas Brothers, resulting in a variety of effects including but not limited to panick, crying, headbutting walls, curling up into the fetal position, a new life strategy, and suicide.

You may be on to something here. Joking aside it could give organics a incinerate kinda animation. And instead of music it could be say loud feadback for a .5 to 2 seconds. I say only a second or two max since the power is designed for synthetics primarily.

Ha, glad to see that people can see through my sarcasm. I agree with you, whatever additional abilities would be added would need to be for a short duration, I'd say 3 seconds at max rank of four. The goal is not to create a more powerful ability, rather it is to create an ability that is useful in every situation, on par with all of the others in the game.

[Firesteel]

Ramikadyc wrote...

Some ideas I've thought of that would add additional utility to AI Hacking while at the same time staying within the boundries and concepts of what AI Hacking is:


AI Hacking: Temporarily hacks a synthetic enemy so it will attack its former allies. Also generates a temporary shield around the hacked target so it can fight more effectively against its allies. In addition:

• If your target is organic, their weapon's targeting computer is scrambled instead, reducing their accuracy for a short time.
• If your target is using a heavy weapon, its mass accelerator is sabotaged instead, giving the weapon a small chance to misfire in the target's hands, causing damage to anyone in the blast radius.
• If your target is wearing armor, their hardsuit's computer paramaters are modified instead, malfunctioning electro-mechanical joints and reducing movement speed.
• Omni-tool and biotic implant computing functions are reset, preventing your target from using tech and biotic abilities for a short time.
  
• If your target is organic, their radio communications are altered, filling their speakers with blaring classical music from The Jonas Brothers, resulting in a variety of effects including but not limited to panick, crying, headbutting walls, curling up into the fetal position, a new life strategy, and suicide.
  

As you can see, there are many different ways to improve AI Hacking so that it is useful on every mission, but at the same time keeping it both in line with the concept of AI Hacking and (aside from the last example) balanced in power. I'm just a guy who plays video games, so there's probably several other unique abilities that can be thought up by the people who are paid to imagine these things.

Seems like the omni tool and biotics is like a reinvention of damping, which I miss, but I can understand why it was taken out, it would completely screw over the collectors and vanguard barriers, as well as make harbinger little more than an annoyance.

[Ramikadyc]

Firesteel7 wrote...

Ramikadyc wrote...

Some ideas I've thought of that would add additional utility to AI Hacking while at the same time staying within the boundries and concepts of what AI Hacking is:


AI Hacking: Temporarily hacks a synthetic enemy so it will attack its former allies. Also generates a temporary shield around the hacked target so it can fight more effectively against its allies. In addition:

• If your target is organic, their weapon's targeting computer is scrambled instead, reducing their accuracy for a short time.
• If your target is using a heavy weapon, its mass accelerator is sabotaged instead, giving the weapon a small chance to misfire in the target's hands, causing damage to anyone in the blast radius.
• If your target is wearing armor, their hardsuit's computer paramaters are modified instead, malfunctioning electro-mechanical joints and reducing movement speed.
• Omni-tool and biotic implant computing functions are reset, preventing your target from using tech and biotic abilities for a short time.
  
• If your target is organic, their radio communications are altered, filling their speakers with blaring classical music from The Jonas Brothers, resulting in a variety of effects including but not limited to panick, crying, headbutting walls, curling up into the fetal position, a new life strategy, and suicide.
  

As you can see, there are many different ways to improve AI Hacking so that it is useful on every mission, but at the same time keeping it both in line with the concept of AI Hacking and (aside from the last example) balanced in power. I'm just a guy who plays video games, so there's probably several other unique abilities that can be thought up by the people who are paid to imagine these things.

Seems like the omni tool and biotics is like a reinvention of damping, which I miss, but I can understand why it was taken out, it would completely screw over the collectors and vanguard barriers, as well as make harbinger little more than an annoyance.

That was the idea, I'll admit. I remembered what powers were left out of ME1 that totally should have been in ME2, and Damping was one I really wanted to see again. To me, AI Hacking needs a situational boost, and this presents a good opportunity to both give that boost and bring back an old favorite talent on a small scale; Damping in ME1 could last a long time, and I wouldn't want it to be brought back like that, because it would be totally imbalanced. As stated above, maybe a 3-second maximum duration--that would promote quick reflexes to use that small window to land your killing blow, or would punish mistakes made by those too hasty who left themselves vulnerable. Risk and reward.

[FoFoZem]

I usually put points into Hack because when your Hackee gets shields, the situational implications are offset by the sheer potency pf crowd control.

[Ramikadyc]

FoFoZem wrote...

I usually put points into Hack because when your Hackee gets shields, the situational implications are offset by the sheer potency pf crowd control.

Crowd control in areas where synthetics exist. No synthetics means no AI Hacking, and when a crew member can't use AI Hacking, they lose effectiveness, and when they lose that effectiveness for entire missions at a time--including what is supposed to be the most important and difficult part of the game--they become gimped, lowering the effectiveness of your loadout. I'm not saying that making the choice to take those gimped squad members makes things impossible, or even significantly more difficult, I'm saying that it feels less fun, at least to me, having one (or two, or three) less power options. One could argue that the Combat Drone is overpowered and so creates balance, but I don't believe that to be true, since no one wants to spam just one ability.

Look at it this way: if you play an Engineer, and you take Tali and Legion as your squad during the Suicide MIssion, and let's say you loved AI Hacking earlier in the game and maxed it out for all characters, you have three characters with three unusable abilities, with a combined total of 30 wasted squad points, consequently reducing the effectiveness of your other usable abilities because those wasted points are unavailable for allocation elsewhere, which is only exacerbated by the fact that you can't respec your squad's powers. That's not really good game design, and I'm proposing a fair and balanced fix for that.

Modifié par Ramikadyc, 26 février 2010 - 09:09 .

[Ramikadyc]

Another idea that just came to me while playing ME2:

AI Hacking: Temporarily hacks a synthetic enemy so it will attack
its former allies. Also generates a temporary shield around the hacked
target so it can fight more effectively against its allies. In addition:

• Using this ability on yours or any other Combat Drone will instantly detonate it, creating an explosion that briefly stuns targets caught in the blast radius (additionally causes Explosive Drone to detonate with 20% more force and damage)
  

Note: this proposed idea suggests that the detonating drones "stun" targets for a brief period, as opposed to knocking them down and dealing damage like the Explosive Drone does. This ensures that Explosive Drone stays unique in ability, but gives you an additional option to detonate it prematurely for increased effect. This concept works with the available powers in the game, requiring very little development change. The effects of using this ability, like any other suggestion I've made, should be open to interpretation--that is to say, these are meant to be general concepts and not my wishes for final changes.

[Spyndel]

There are enough synthetics in the game to make it perfectly viable and useful. Not every character should be perfect for every mission, thats the entire point. And player classes who have the ability, have other abilities that are useful in other situations.



I see no issue.

[amrose2]

Spyndel wrote...

There are enough synthetics in the game to make it perfectly viable and useful. Not every character should be perfect for every mission, thats the entire point. And player classes who have the ability, have other abilities that are useful in other situations.

I see no issue.

Agreed.  Not every ability needs to be useful all the time. It's a powerful 'niche' ability. If it had a secondary effect, it would have to be much weaker to balance it. We need more of these types of spells, not less.

Modifié par amrose2, 26 février 2010 - 10:03 .

[Ramikadyc]

I'd agree that there's no issue if there were synthetics in the Suicide Mission. I agree that not every ability needs to be useful in every situation, but at least all the others are usable. The point is that you spend the whole game preparing, leveling, building up your team and your arsenal for the Suicide Mission, and suddenly you're screwed over because you have a useless ability, with points unavailable to buff up your other abilities. I find it hard to believe that people wouldn't welcome a change that makes the ability and all the points you spent in it for all of your characters useful for the end-run. Again, the intent is not to make a more powerful ability, it's to make a more viable ability, because right now you're hurting your squad by maximizing their AI Hacking. Saying there's no issue is saying that you have no problem with wasted squad points, and saying that you should just not spend the points is implying that the power has a problem, and problems should be fixed.

[rheed]

Who cares anyway? Both Legion and Tali are extremely useless in the game beyond hard difficulty. Who cares about a useless character that has low defenses, a paper drone oneshootable and an skill only usable when no shields/barriers/armors - Aka mob dying in 2 seconds?



I found even the fully upgraded drone being utterly destroyed in 2 seconds in higher lvls....



Sorry, I just hate those two squad members ( Tho Legion looks are cool and his background story )

[SmilingMirror]

AI hacking makes Legions mission a breeze. To bad the collectors don't have any synthetics working for them.
AI hacking does a fair bit of damage against shields.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 26 février 2010 - 07:08 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Average Gatsby wrote...

Personally I think AI hack is fine. I just don't keep it along with me until the missions where I face geth. Very few missions have a mix of mechs/geth and organics, and Mechs with there simple AI are pretty simple to kill.

I respec in and out AI hack for the missions I need it, and I usually abandon Incinerate because it is so useless against Synthetics.

Respec for every mission solves a majority of problems.

New games give you 50k Ezo and you can easily find more whilst scanning.

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 26 février 2010 - 07:31 .

[brgillespie]

Yes, I think players forget about the respec skill. As Gatsby suggests, simply dump Incinerate for missions with synthetics and respec into Overload and AI Hacking.



And rheed: "I found even the fully upgraded drone being utterly destroyed in 2 seconds in higher lvls...." <--- That's what makes Explosive Drone so much better than the Attack version. Drone's on a short cooldown, so you can essentially lock a bad guy down with continual free explosions. That's what I do, anyway.

[rheed]

brgillespie wrote...

Yes, I think players forget about the respec skill. As Gatsby suggests, simply dump Incinerate for missions with synthetics and respec into Overload and AI Hacking.

And rheed: "I found even the fully upgraded drone being utterly destroyed in 2 seconds in higher lvls...." <--- That's what makes Explosive Drone so much better than the Attack version. Drone's on a short cooldown, so you can essentially lock a bad guy down with continual free explosions. That's what I do, anyway.

Any other squadmate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Insert random crap  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tali/Legion

Still, the damage it does is really low when explodes, heck, even Overload does more, both damage and utility, and don't talk about the combo pull+warp. Anyway, I play as a sentinel, I prefer going with more combat oriented chars, tho mordin is the exception :> 

[rabbitchannel]

Spyndel:

All other powers that are more effective than normal on types of defense (Incinerate on armor, for example) are still useful in other situations. Even biotics that are suited more for armor, health, and barriers are still able to inflict some damage on shields. They are not totally useless against a certain type of enemy. Ammo powers are different as they are specifically designed to augment normal damage against only a certain type. AI Hacking is not. So while taking Thane on Legion's loyalty mission is not the best option, he is still able to deal damage to shields with Warp and do normal damage with it once their shields are gone. However, as stated by the OP, if you take Legion against the Collectors, you have essentially lost a power. Not reduced effectivity. You've lost it.

That said, I still brought Legion with me once or twice against the big boss. Though AI Hacking is useless and the Drone has a terribly long cooldown, his Widow is godly.

I agree with the OP and think his arguments and suggestions are well-presented and well-thought-out. I've thought about it myself but not having played an Engineer, it didn't bother me so much. As a suggestion and a viable alternative, I think it would work if they combined Neural Shock and AI Hacking. If used on an organic, they would be affected by Neural Shock. If synthetic, AI Hacking. They are both tech powers anyway.

Modifié par rabbitchannel, 26 février 2010 - 08:44 .

[Alneverus]

Firesteel7 wrote...

[*]Seems like the omni tool and biotics is like a reinvention of damping, which I miss, but I can understand why it was taken out, it would completely screw over the collectors and vanguard barriers, as well as make harbinger little more than an annoyance.

With a sniper rifle Harbinger was little more than an annoyance. Just headshot during the transformation.[*]

rheed wrote...

Who cares anyway? Both Legion and Tali are
extremely useless in the game beyond hard difficulty. Who cares about a
useless character that has low defenses, a paper drone oneshootable and
an skill only usable when no shields/barriers/armors - Aka mob dying in
2 seconds?

I found even the fully upgraded drone being utterly destroyed in 2 seconds in higher lvls....

Sorry, I just hate those two squad members ( Tho Legion looks are cool and his background story )

When I switched Legion to the Viper sniper rifle during missions he actually did pretty well for me.

Modifié par Alneverus, 26 février 2010 - 08:49 .

[Ramikadyc]

It's worth noting that abilities which were primarily ineffective against mechs, like fire-based damage, become very effective against them on higher difficulties, seeing as how even the lowliest of mechs has full armor. This only exacerbates the issue, illustrating how tactics can evolve for every other power except AI Hacking.