7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...

It's a waste of resources considering they could have done it when Tali was romanceable at all (ME2) and the fact that you would have to start the romance from scratch (femshep never had the discussion about taking immunity boosters, etc, there's no pre-suicide mission intimacy) effectively making two different romances for female shepards and male shepards, which a lot of you seem to disagree with. Meaning, you disagree with the idea that "making" or having characters be bisexual would not and should not fundamentally change the romance or character. For example, one poster said that Thane being bisexual would not make him destroy the collectors alone (?????).

I don't have a problem with two different romances based on player gender.  The Liara romance was even slightly different for FemShep (you get the 'But you're female!' option).

Oh come on. That's extremely minor. That basically amounts to a few at most dialogue changes.

I don't feel these differences should change the character, nor would it change the character if executed properly.  The addition of that line for FemShep didn't change Liara's character at all.

That's one game that has the Liara romance. Different from what we're talkinga bout.

Same goes for Tali if she was reluctant to start something with FemShep b/c of her fear of human taboos.  Tali's the same Tali it's just that her romance with FemShep is a bit different from DudeShep.

I never suggested that this wasn't the case. What I am suggesting is that it's a waste of resources to develop two different romances per gender that has the male romance pertaining to two games and the female romance pertaining to one game.

And about wasting resources....I have a feeling the Tali/FemShep romance would be quite popular,

Quite popular? Most of the fans who wanted the Tali romance to be begin with were male. Similarly, most of the fans who wanted the Garrus romance to begin with were female. I think most of those accursed horny guys who love lesbians would rather see femshep getting it on with miranda rather than tali who would probably not show any skin. So then, if you want to appease the majority of straight lesbian loving guys and lesbian/bisexual female players, where do you go? a female character whose face you can actually see, especially for the straight lesbian loving guys.

so if they're going to add more romances in ME3 then why not?

...because those resources can be used for other romances and characters? o_O

They can cut down on Jacob's ME3 romantic content, since most FemSheps didn't romance that poor guy. 

The Tali/FemShep ME3 romance dialog could be similar to what happened b/w Tali/MaleShep in ME2, except with the explanation for why Tali didn't pursue it earlier would be different.

Except that it would be a different romance. First of all, the female romance with tali would have to be condensed into one game.
Secondly, the female romance with tali would not have the precedent of everything male shepard said and did with tali in ME2. Don't tell me you think that it doesn't matter that a female player romanced kaidan or liara in ME1. Don't tell you think that Liara and Kaidan are going to act like there was nothing between them and you during ME1/ME2, and that they're just starting to reveal their feelings to you. It is highly important that in ME1/ME2, you continued the liara romance.

so you would be essentially writing two different romances one for male shepard and one for female shepard. waste of resources.

Modifié par Collider, 09 mars 2010 - 04:42 .

[Arik7]

Collider wrote...

I'm not saying that any character in particular it would be out of character for. Why? Because I am not the writer of any of these characters. I am saying that the WRITERS themselves can decide that their character is not heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. Are you saying that you would fault the writers for the Duke Nukem character if he was not able to make homosexual one liners and rescue scantily clad male strippers?

The writers could do whatever they want.  But if, at some point, Duke Nukem were to experiment with a male, I wouldn't scream "it's out of character!!!". 

Modifié par Arik7, 09 mars 2010 - 04:49 .

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

I'm not saying that any character in particular it would be out of character for. Why? Because I am not the writer of any of these characters. I am saying that the WRITERS themselves can decide that their character is not heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. 

The writers decide the characters, yes, but then they change their minds.

Going back to Tali (she's a favorite example I guess), there's nothing about her characterization in ME1 or ME2 that screams, 'look at me!  I'm heterosexual!'  or, 'look at me!  I'm bisexual!'   They could turn around and in ME3 write her as a bisexual character and this wouldn't clash with anything that's happened up until this point.   They changed how they wrote her in ME2 from ME1 in regards to romance.  They didn't write Tali as being interested in Shepard back then, but then decided to do so in ME2.  It fits, even though she showed no interest in Shepard in ME1, becuase there was nothing that happened in ME1 that would make it impossible for her to fall for Shepard.

I know that some dev said they had talked about making Tali a romance option in ME3 but they never actually wrote it.  The writers, at the time of ME1, decided she was not attracted to Shepard and then they changed their minds. 

[SimonTheFrog]

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...

It's a waste of resources considering they could have done it when Tali was romanceable at all (ME2) and the fact that you would have to start the romance from scratch (femshep never had the discussion about taking immunity boosters, etc, there's no pre-suicide mission intimacy) effectively making two different romances for female shepards and male shepards, which a lot of you seem to disagree with. Meaning, you disagree with the idea that "making" or having characters be bisexual would not and should not fundamentally change the romance or character. For example, one poster said that Thane being bisexual would not make him destroy the collectors alone (?????).

I don't have a problem with two different romances based on player gender.  The Liara romance was even slightly different for FemShep (you get the 'But you're female!' option).  I don't feel these differences should change the character, nor would it change the character if executed properly.  The addition of that line for FemShep didn't change Liara's character at all.  Same goes for Tali if she was reluctant to start something with FemShep b/c of her fear of human taboos.  Tali's the same Tali it's just that her romance with FemShep is a bit different from DudeShep.

And about wasting resources....I have a feeling the Tali/FemShep romance would be quite popular, so if they're going to add more romances in ME3 then why not?   They can cut down on Jacob's ME3 romantic content, since most FemSheps didn't romance that poor guy.  The Tali/FemShep ME3 romance dialog could be similar to what happened b/w Tali/MaleShep in ME2, except with the explanation for why Tali didn't pursue it earlier would be different.

BTW, i so much feel like it's the right LI for my femShep (which is the only way i feel comfortable playing ME... the dudeShep feels awkward to me) that i stopped playing the game. All scenes with Tali just remind me that their love is doomed. 
It's not protest or anything, i just can't endure it.
Now i'm waiting for this to happen so i can continue my playing the game.

(Another option is Liara for the saves where i dated her)

We'll see 

[Collider]

[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...
I won't quote/dequote, so it's all in the end here. 

In real life, people obviously "tick" in a certain way (even in RL people can meet someone who switches that exact flip you mentioned... happens quite often actually) but this is not rl.[/quote]
Of course it's not real life. Mass Effect is a science fiction universe that mimics real life in many regards. The "Science fiction" part instead of fantasy should tell as much. Art is an imitation of life, of reality.

[quote]It's a fantasy setup with only ONE purpose: to entertain the player.[/quote]
LOL! There's much more to making a game than just the very abstract goal of entertaining the player. So much more.

[quote]The NPC's in the game obviously have their roles, some to annoy you, some to frighten you, others to be buddies, others to pounce you. And i see that these roles are important and cannot be mixed easily.[/quote]
In the same vein, part of Garrus' role is to be a romance option for female players. Etc.

But again, what is the artistic gain, which according to you is so important for the writer, in making a character nothing but straight.[/quote]

[quote]What is so much more artistic about a straight Miranda than one that falls in love with my female Shepard?[/quote]
There is no artistic value inherently in a heterosexual character versus the bisexual character. What IS artistically more valuable are the characters acting according to how the writers want them. I wouldnt  be saying a word different if Miranda was a lesbian in ME2 and you wanted Miranda to be open to guys.

[quote]Especially if Miranda is offering to falling in love with both genders.

You see, there is even no explanation needed for her background. They went a long way to explain why boobed Liara can love you. Its completely redundant in my eyes. She loves you because you are special and she sees that. That's all i need to know.

And if Miranda tells me that she feels something for me i dont need to know if she ever had a man or girl before. Of if that strange for her or not. I don't give a darn. I just accept she does and pursue it or not. 

Apart from that all her daddy issues, Oriana, Cerberus... nothing would change. Nothing in her behavior would change. Not even her looks, her genetic modification or her ability to shot a mech in the head over a 100 yard.

It's really just not the case that the label "gay", or "bisexual" or whatever play a significant role for a game NPC in a way how he/she blends into the story or plays his/her role as squadmate and doing NPC stuff. Especially if the designer make all that stuff optional and don't make the character say "f*** off" everytime you enter the room after giving the "lets be friends" talk. That was a bit weird.
[/quote]
What's your point? I realize that sexual orientation does not need to be integral to a character (in which case I would wonder why you care so much about miranda not being able to be with your femshep. just play a male shepard). But that doesn't mean the writers can feel that their character being heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual would be out of character for them.

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...
The writers decide the characters, yes, but then they change their minds.

Going back to Tali (she's a favorite example I guess), there's nothing about her characterization in ME1 or ME2 that screams, 'look at me!  I'm heterosexual!'  or, 'look at me!  I'm bisexual!'
They could turn around and in ME3 write her as a bisexual character and this wouldn't clash with anything that's happened up until this point.   They changed how they wrote her in ME2 from ME1 in regards to romance.  They didn't write Tali as being interested in Shepard back then, but then decided to do so in ME2.  It fits, even though she showed no interest in Shepard in ME1, becuase there was nothing that happened in ME1 that would make it impossible for her to fall for Shepard.

You don't get it. I'm not arguing myself that any character would not or could not be bisexual or heterosexual or whatever. I am saying that the writers can feel this way.

[Collider]

Arik7 wrote...
The writers could do whatever they want.  But if, at some point, Duke Nukem were to experiment with a male, I wouldn't scream "it's out of character!!!". 

I used Duke Nukem so it's easier for you to conceptualize the idea that sometimes writers think that certain things would be out of character for their character. It doesn't matter if it's preferring apples to oranges, or being bisexual or straight, certain things are either out of character or not out of character for the writers.

[Ryzaki]

...Yeah I don't find games that take themselves overly seriously to be fun. And the ironic part is that the majority seems to agree with me. XD A game's primary directive should be just that, a GAME something entertaining, realistic enough for basic attachment but with enough deviations from the norm that its fun and interesting. A vast majority of the games  I see that values storytelling above gameplay and enjoyment of the game usually become "movies" and "just boring and lame" games. Or the infamous: If I wanted a static story, I'd have read a bloody book.

I won't ever forgive Squareenix for ruining my KH with CoM.

Seriously a real time fighting based card game? Really Square really?  Whoever thought that was a good idea needs to be kicked in the face. I love the KH story and I couldn't stomach that horrendous gameplay long enough to finish the first world.

Dev A: Hey guys you know that combat system that we totally perfected in KH2

Dev B: Yeah what about it? 

Dev A: Let's totally scrap it and use this real time card based fighting from the GBA version of the game so we can be cheap and make it a really crappy Port!

Dev B: Don't we have to upgrade the graphics and everything? We're already saving money by having pratically no voice acting!

Dev A: But the combat system will be totally cool! I mean its not like its pratically retarded to have when your enemies (unlike the GBA version) can go behind you and jump and you can miss and stufff!

Dev B: You know that's a great Idea!

Me and a great deal of other KH players: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 mars 2010 - 05:03 .

[Arik7]

Collider wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
The writers decide the characters, yes, but then they change their minds.

Going back to Tali (she's a favorite example I guess), there's nothing about her characterization in ME1 or ME2 that screams, 'look at me!  I'm heterosexual!'  or, 'look at me!  I'm bisexual!'
They could turn around and in ME3 write her as a bisexual character and this wouldn't clash with anything that's happened up until this point.   They changed how they wrote her in ME2 from ME1 in regards to romance.  They didn't write Tali as being interested in Shepard back then, but then decided to do so in ME2.  It fits, even though she showed no interest in Shepard in ME1, becuase there was nothing that happened in ME1 that would make it impossible for her to fall for Shepard.

You don't get it. I'm not arguing myself that any character would not or could not be bisexual or heterosexual or whatever. I am saying that the writers can feel this way.

You'd think they would know better, being writers and all.

In ME1, the writers felt that being attracted to Shepard is not in Tali's character, and yet we all know what happened in mE2.

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

Oh come on. That's extremely minor. That basically amounts to a few at most dialogue changes.

Like I said before, they can rehash the ME2 romance for ME3 Tali/Femshep...with minor dialog changes.  

Collider wrote...

Quite popular? Most of the fans who wanted the Tali romance to be begin with were male. Similarly, most of the fans who wanted the Garrus romance to begin with were female. I think most of those accursed horny guys who love lesbians would rather see femshep getting it on with miranda rather than tali who would probably not show any skin.

Really?  You think that the guys that like Tali wouldn't romance her with a FemShep as well as a MaleShep?  Heck, they could have made Miranda or even Jack an option for females

Collider wrote...

...because those resources can be used for other romances and characters? o_O

The same could be said for those that want a continuation of the ME2 romances in ME3.  Why waste time with the old ones (who could be dead anyway) and bring in new characters and romances?
 

Collider wrote...

Except that it would be a different romance. First of all, the female romance with tali would have to be condensed into one game.
Secondly, the female romance with tali would not have the precedent of everything male shepard said and did with tali in ME2. Don't tell me you think that it doesn't matter that a female player romanced kaidan or liara in ME1. Don't tell you think that Liara and Kaidan are going to act like there was nothing between them and you during ME1/ME2, and that they're just starting to reveal their feelings to you. It is highly important that in ME1/ME2, you continued the liara romance.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.  Are you saying that if the character romanced Liara or Kaidan in ME1 that this would have to affect the new ME3 Tali romance in some way?  This could be said for all romances and possible ME1/ME2 combinations.  There's a ton of permutations.  BW's going to have a rough time dealing with them.  Which is why I think ME2 LIs will get a small role in ME3 which is the real reason I don't think they're going to do a FemShep/Tali romance in ME3.

Modifié par jlb524, 09 mars 2010 - 05:00 .

[Collider]

Arik7 wrote...
You'd think they would know better, being writers and all.

In ME1, the writers felt that being attracted to Shepard is not in Tali's character,

and yet we all know what happened in mE2.

Actually, unless you've proof otherwise, all we know is that Bioware did not think anyone would like Tali and therefore did not make the romance although they were considering it before. your point? In addition, it is revealed in the romance with tali that she had a secret crush on him.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Collider wrote...
I don't remember anyone saying that you in particular should support it. A lot of the game was not based upon what fans explicitely wanted. It's not the fans that request and write every detail of the story and the environments. Yet both are swell, the environments are particularly exceptional if you take the time to look at them.

Then what is the point of this topic? Obviously you stated your desire for such a "feature" to be added in ME3, why drag it out? The idea that "if it is on the front page they must do it"?

Yeah it's not what the fan's request, so why should it be different with this rather minor case? Obviously Bioware thought romances with Tali, Miranda, and other characters would appeal to a relatively large portion of the playerbase. Why should they discard such thinking and cave in to the demands of extremly vocal yet small groups? Some people want Joker to be a romance option, but that doesn't automatically make it a good idea.

[SimonTheFrog]

Collider wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

<snipalot>

I think one of my points is basically that i don't see sexual orientation as an important "character" facet for my squadmates. At least not predominantly. 
As a writer you could artistically play with this as part of the personal background. But I think the orientation is much much much less significant than political stances or past war experiences, alliences, races, or whatever.

Those should determine, according to my view, whether the squaddy considers dating the commander. The sexual orientation is just not striking, really. It doesn't change what you think, who you are, who you see as a friend. And it shouldn't influence whom you love 
If the happiness of the commander is at stake, at least...

And yeah, i DO think that games are there to entertain the player. What else would you suggest? L'art pour l'art? Now it's my time to rofl...

[jlb524]

Arik7 wrote...

Collider wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
The writers decide the characters, yes, but then they change their minds.

Going back to Tali (she's a favorite example I guess), there's nothing about her characterization in ME1 or ME2 that screams, 'look at me!  I'm heterosexual!'  or, 'look at me!  I'm bisexual!'
They could turn around and in ME3 write her as a bisexual character and this wouldn't clash with anything that's happened up until this point.   They changed how they wrote her in ME2 from ME1 in regards to romance.  They didn't write Tali as being interested in Shepard back then, but then decided to do so in ME2.  It fits, even though she showed no interest in Shepard in ME1, becuase there was nothing that happened in ME1 that would make it impossible for her to fall for Shepard.

You don't get it. I'm not arguing myself that any character would not or could not be bisexual or heterosexual or whatever. I am saying that the writers can feel this way.

You'd think they would know better, being writers and all.

In ME1, the writers felt that being attracted to Shepard is not in Tali's character, and yet we all know what happened in mE2.

That was my entire point. 

@Collider

I wasn't talking about you, but the writers.   I explained how they changed their minds about a character's sexuality from ME1 to ME2 (Tali).  These things happen.

Modifié par jlb524, 09 mars 2010 - 05:04 .

[Ryzaki]

ReconTeam wrote...

Collider wrote...
I don't remember anyone saying that you in particular should support it. A lot of the game was not based upon what fans explicitely wanted. It's not the fans that request and write every detail of the story and the environments. Yet both are swell, the environments are particularly exceptional if you take the time to look at them.

Then what is the point of this topic? Obviously you stated your desire for such a "feature" to be added in ME3, why drag it out? The idea that "if it is on the front page they must do it"?

Yeah it's not what the fan's request, so why should it be different with this rather minor case? Obviously Bioware thought romances with Tali, Miranda, and other characters would appeal to a relatively large portion of the playerbase. Why should they discard such thinking and cave in to the demands of extremly vocal yet small groups? Some people want Joker to be a romance option, but that doesn't automatically make it a good idea.

...Were you not the one who bumped the thread? 

Edit: NM

...Uh...I want Joker to be a romance option. And how pray tell is it a bad idea?  Tali being a romance option wasn't a good idea either but look at where we are now. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 mars 2010 - 05:07 .

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

Actually, unless you've proof otherwise, all we know is that Bioware did not think anyone would like Tali and therefore did not make the romance although they were considering it before. your point? In addition, it is revealed in the romance with tali that she had a secret crush on him.

They still changed their minds.  They wrote in the secret crush explanation after the fact of deciding she's now attracted to Shepard (which happened during the writing of ME2).  You can't prove that this was written into Tali's character during the writing of ME1.  If it was, I'm sure they would've dropped a hint or two in that game (they didn't).

We can't really talk about what they were or weren't considering for ME1 with Tali b/c we don't really know the details of what went down.  They could have also considered making Tali an option for FemShep in ME2. 

Modifié par jlb524, 09 mars 2010 - 05:08 .

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...
Like I said before, they can rehash the ME2 romance for ME3 Tali/Femshep...with minor dialog changes.

You have to be realistic now. They would have to condense the entire romance into one game, in another environment than ME2 was. The romance would NOT have the precedent of romancing her in ME2. It would be fundamentally different. Wouldn't you be annoyed if in ME3 Liara made not indication that you had a relationship with her and slept with her in ME1?

Really?  You think that the guys that like Tali wouldn't romance her with a FemShep as well as a MaleShep?  Heck, they could have made Miranda or even Jack an option for females

No, never said that. I am saying that for the guys who just want lebian loving, there is always miranda and jack as potential candidates. they actually show some skin. for the dudes who want to see their femshep getting it on with a woman, this is probably what they want. skin. so if you want to satisfy those guys, go with miranda or jack. or another female character.

as well as kelly. but the most important thing is that the majority of tali fans are male and want to be able to romance tali as male. I think it is distasteful to act upon the whims of the guys who brainlessly want to see lesbians to get their jollies.

Collider wrote...
The same could be said for those that want a continuation of the ME2 romances in ME3.  Why waste time with the old ones (who could be dead anyway) and bring in new characters and romances?

Of course I could say it. But you honestly don't equate the importance of continuing romances to having new romances altogether, wouldn't you? Don't you think it would be annoying if the Liara romance wasn't continued because Bioware thought it would be better use of resources just to make a new romance? Think about this. Most of the fans want their romance to continue, they are not pining for the invisible and unknown romances that may be in ME3. You have to put context into this.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.  Are you saying that if the character romanced Liara or Kaidan in ME1 that this would have to affect the new ME3 Tali romance in some way?  This could be said for all romances and possible ME1/ME2 combinations.  There's a ton of permutations.  BW's going to have a rough time dealing with them.  Which is why I think ME2 LIs will get a small role in ME3 which is the real reason I don't think they're going to do a FemShep/Tali romance in ME3.

No, what I'm saying is that unlike Kaidan/Liara/Ashley/Jack/Miranda/straight Tali romances, the female romance with tali would not have the precedent of the relationship having occured in the other games. Therefore having to make the romance unique. Because clearly the romance continuations in ME3 are going to be just that - Liara is not going to act like you never showed interest in her. The relationships are going to expand and continue, not start over as if they never happened. Get it?

Modifié par Collider, 09 mars 2010 - 05:10 .

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...
@Collider

I wasn't talking about you, but the writers.   I explained how they changed their minds about a character's sexuality from ME1 to ME2 (Tali).  These things happen.

I never said they didn't happen. The whole conversation began from me saying that maybe certain characters are not bisexual, heterosexual, or homosexual because the writers decided it would not in character. How this entire conversations started from that is beyond me. Do you dispute what is italicized?

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...
They still changed their minds.  They wrote in the secret crush explanation after the fact of deciding she's now attracted to Shepard (which happened during the writing of ME2).

It's not deciding that she's now attracted to Shepard. It was deciding that she was always attracted to Shepard. You don't know whether they specifically decided that Tali was not attracted to Shepard versus deciding that she was not going to be a romance in ME1.

You can't prove that this was written into Tali's character during the writing of ME1.

yet you seem to think you can prove that they changed their minds. strange. not having a romance in ME1and having a romance in ME2 is not necessarily changing their minds. it's an evolution of the character, you don't need to assume they are changing their minds. me1 is independent from ME2.

If it was, I'm sure they would've dropped a hint or two in that game (they didn't).

like i said, it's not as if we know that at the beginning of ME2 production they decided that tali and garrus would not be love interests in ME2. so you cannot rightly say it was changing their minds.

We can't really talk about what they were or weren't considering for ME1 with Tali b/c we don't really know the details of what went down.

that's important for you to know.

[Arik7]

Collider wrote...

Arik7 wrote...
You'd think they would know better, being writers and all.

In ME1, the writers felt that being attracted to Shepard is not in Tali's character,

and yet we all know what happened in mE2.

Actually, unless you've proof otherwise, all we know is that Bioware did not think anyone would like Tali and therefore did not make the romance although they were considering it before. your point? In addition, it is revealed in the romance with tali that she had a secret crush on him.

The reason for absense of same-sex romances is similar: a perceived lack of demand.   Same-sex romances were also considered but eventually cut.   Hopefully in the next DLC/Expansion/ME3 it will be revealed that Kaidan had a (not so) secret crush on ManShep and Tali on FemShep.....

Modifié par Arik7, 09 mars 2010 - 05:18 .

[Collider]

ReconTeam wrote...

Collider wrote...
I don't remember anyone saying that you in particular should support it. A lot of the game was not based upon what fans explicitely wanted. It's not the fans that request and write every detail of the story and the environments. Yet both are swell, the environments are particularly exceptional if you take the time to look at them.

Then what is the point of this topic? Obviously you stated your desire for such a "feature" to be added in ME3, why drag it out?

If you don't want to drag it out, don't respond to me. problem solved.

I don't explicitely want the same sex option so that I will use it, because I probably won't (never touched zevran's romance in general for example). I just have no problem with same sex romances being in the game so long as there is not retconning and character assassination involved.

Yeah it's not what the fan's request, so why should it be different with this rather minor case? Obviously Bioware thought romances with Tali, Miranda, and other characters would appeal to a relatively large portion of the playerbase. Why should they discard such thinking and cave in to the demands of extremly vocal yet small groups? Some people want Joker to be a romance option, but that doesn't automatically make it a good idea.

It's their choice. I wouldn't think any lesser of bioware if they didnt have new gay, bisexual, or heterosexual romanceable characters.

[Ryzaki]

Offtopic: LOL I finally got the Alistair dumping a male PC glitch. XD

[Collider]

Arik7 wrote...
The reason for absense of same-sex romance is similar: a perceived lack of demand.

Oh, I had no idea you were Bioware.

Hopefully in the next DLC/Expansion/ME3 it will be revealed that Kaidan had a (not so) secret crush on ManShep and Tali on FemShep.....

If Bioware has to waste resources, waste them on ME3, not retconning DLC or expansion.

[tyddrwsau]

Thalinor00 wrote...
The whole "pride" movement died when people ceased to care about someone’s sexual orientation. It’s like that figure skater that kept bringing up he was gay… “Look at me I am gay!” Again, good for you, its 2010 NO ONE CARES whether you are straight gay or otherwise. Get over yourself.

I'm afraid that you overstate the level of social progress and tolerant enlightenment (or at least apathy) that we've achieved. Plenty of folk care, and some terribly hatefully. I'll withhold my off-topic exposition on the horrors of this subject. But. It's one reason why media matters.

I will agree with your thesis that roleplaying need not be about playing a character Just Like You - it's often best when variation is used and one takes the chance to visualize a very different character's point of view. Even so, it's also good to have things about your character that you can identify with, and a romantic story is one of the most visceral cues for identification that are out there. It's part of why many major media narratives stick in a love interest. And gay people are rather depressingly accustomed to seeing that those sweet romantic stories plastered everywhere Don't Include Us.

Arik7 wrote...
Being homosexual would not fundamentally change a character.  You
should not be comparing sexual orientation with a moral choice like
"burning down a village".    Gay people come from all walks of life. 
Writers don't  have to rationalize someone's sexuality, as was done
with Zevran in DAO.   Just write any character, who happens to be
gay/bisexual.  There's absolutely nothing about Kaidan, Thane, Ashley
or Tali that would preclude them from being bisexual.

Quoted for emphasis. Well said.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Ryzaki wrote...
...Were you not the one who bumped the thread? 

Edit: NM

...Uh...I want Joker to be a romance option. And how pray tell is it a bad idea?  Tali being a romance option wasn't a good idea either but look at where we are now. <_<

I don't think I did, although it is still foolish of me to contribute to this mess.
I like Joker, how could you not? But I simply don't think he would be a good character for a romance plot. Apparently somebody at Bioware thought Tali would be a good romance plot, and it is all their call.

But hasn't this topic boiled down to:
"we want this or else we will complain"
and
"your idea is stupid and thus I oppose it out of spite"