7455 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

You know you have to share Tali with thousands of other male Shepards, right?   This isn't a problem?

[Ryzaki]

Goat_Shepard wrote...


Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

Good then someone making an exact duplicate of your cake and redesigning it and giving it to someone else won't bother you then right ? Because that is pretty much what a FemShepTali romance DLC is.

Spliting the cake is a bad analogy seeing as you're not actually losing anything. You choose if you want to eat the new cake or not if its DLC. No one will force it on you.

And complaining about someone else having a choice to make the game better for them while it doesn't affect your game would be testement of spitting in the duplicate cake because you be hatin'.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 février 2010 - 05:21 .

[tyddrwsau]

Collider wrote...

tyddrwsau wrote...
This gets back to my usual argument that relationships with aliens far transcend sexual orientation. If you can move past your attraction to your own species (and personal "type" within it), get past your native culture and its assumptions of gender behaviour and find yourself in love with an alien - perhaps even interested in physical intimacy with someone of wildly different anatomy - that really seems to go to a whole new level.

No way. That is absolutely ridiculous. These aliens still conform to the male/female dichotomy. They were created specifically so human players could relate to them. They are not actual aliens. They are humanoids, with VERY human features and personalities. The argument you are using is terrible.

You're certainly right that these are fictional characters imagined by us, and our deep seated cultural assumptions are applied to them freely. We know they're make-believe, and background information is still just "fluff text" when it says their proteins have mirror chirality to ours, or their culture is way different than ours, and so on. From an audience point of view, you're right on. (But from the same audience point of view, we can look at any established character and say: "this character is malleable and can still be written, expanded, deepened" and risk retconning, which you oppose).

From a point of view that suggests fictional characters should relate with their fictional environment as though it's all there is, cross-species relationships should transcend those individuals' normal assumptions of attraction, gender behaviour, and so forth. (And it is only from a character point of view, wherein the characters behave as though they are real, that an established character can be said to have a "fixed identity" or even any identity at all.)

[FKA_Servo]

Collider wrote...
No way. That is absolutely ridiculous. These aliens still conform to the male/female dichotomy. They were created specifically so human players could relate to them. They are not actual aliens. They are humanoids, with VERY human features and personalities. The argument you are using is terrible.

As I said Collider, just food for thought.  It's all academic right now.  Honestly, a ton people who support the inclusion of this content would agree with you - we'd like a compelling new character (or two) to be introduced in a satisfying expansion that would ideally be packed with content that would satisfy everyone.

[danman2424]

EphelDuath666 wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
In the end, Bioware went with what they felt was appropriate, and what they felt they had the time and resources to implement.

well, as far as I understand, it was in the game and then they took it out. If this was about them saving time, it would have made sense to keep the homosexual romances in instead of needing additional time to take those romances out of the game again, no?

Like I said, they went with what they felt was appropriate. For the character and the story I'm sure.

[Octorox]

Ryzaki wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...


Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

Good then someone making an exact duplicate of your cake and redesigning it and giving it to someone else won't bother you then right ? Because that is pretty much what a FemShepTali romance DLC is.

Spliting the cake is a bad analogy seeing as you're not actually losing anything. You choose if you want to eat the new cake or not if its DLC. No one will force it on you.

But the Mass Effect universe isn't your's or anyone's, it's Bioware's. Shepard, however, is yours, as Shepard you can do everything in your power through your charm and awesomeness to make Tali in love with you. As Shepard you cannot magically download something that will change her orientation.

To be clear I SUPPORT same-sex marriage in Mas Effect. However, I do not think it should be added to any of the existing characters. I would rather see a new ME3 or DLC character created.

[tmelange]

Collider wrote...

tyddrwsau wrote...
This gets back to my usual argument that relationships with aliens far transcend sexual orientation. If you can move past your attraction to your own species (and personal "type" within it), get past your native culture and its assumptions of gender behaviour and find yourself in love with an alien - perhaps even interested in physical intimacy with someone of wildly different anatomy - that really seems to go to a whole new level.

No way. That is absolutely ridiculous. These aliens still conform to the male/female dichotomy. They were created specifically so human players could relate to them. They are not actual aliens. They are humanoids, with VERY human features and personalities. The argument you are using is terrible.

Asari's don't conform to the male/female dichotomy. Garrus was not created so that humans could relate to him as a love interest; his biology is completely incompatible with human biology, and BW never intended him to be romanceable. Likewise with Tali. You have no idea what is under her suit, and in any case, co-habitating with Shep in an intimate way is untenable as Shep doesn't wear a suit and can't maintain a sterile personal environment without it. Every time they'd want to be intimate, Tali has to seriously risk her life.

I am not sure how they are all not actual aliens.

[Goat_Shepard]

jlb524 wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

You know you have to share Tali with thousands of other male Shepards, right?   This isn't a problem?

sigh...I give up. I'll be on here all night if I continue.

EDIT* Here I'll quote this because it's better than whatever I would have said. CHEERS MATE!

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...


Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

Good then someone making an exact duplicate of your cake and redesigning it and giving it to someone else won't bother you then right ? Because that is pretty much what a FemShepTali romance DLC is. 

Spliting the cake is a bad analogy seeing as you're not actually losing anything. You choose if you want to eat the new cake or not if its DLC. No one will force it on you. 

But the Mass Effect universe isn't your's or anyone's, it's Bioware's. Shepard, however, is yours, as Shepard you can do everything in your power through your charm and awesomeness to make Tali in love with you. As Shepard you cannot magically download something that will change her orientation.

To be clear I SUPPORT same-sex marriage in Mas Effect. However, I do not think it should be added to any of the existing characters. I would rather see a new ME3 or DLC character created.

 

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 26 février 2010 - 05:27 .

[Ryzaki]

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...


Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

Good then someone making an exact duplicate of your cake and redesigning it and giving it to someone else won't bother you then right ? Because that is pretty much what a FemShepTali romance DLC is.

Spliting the cake is a bad analogy seeing as you're not actually losing anything. You choose if you want to eat the new cake or not if its DLC. No one will force it on you.

But the Mass Effect universe isn't your's or anyone's, it's Bioware's. Shepard, however, is yours, as Shepard you can do everything in your power through your charm and awesomeness to make Tali in love with you. As Shepard you cannot magically download something that will change her orientation.

To be clear I SUPPORT same-sex marriage in Mas Effect. However, I do not think it should be added to any of the existing characters. I would rather see a new ME3 or DLC character created.

Uh. Yes you can. Its a video game. If I can magically download additional characters out of nowhere I can change Tali's orientation. Tis optional. No one will hold a gun to anyone's head and make them download the DLC. I can get the Mako back (out of nowhere because it certainly isn't there now) additional armor and weapons but changing someone's sexual orientation for more enjoyment is out of the question?  Its optional DLC if it would even be implemented. No one would be forced to do anything.

Also same sex marriage? Lol wut? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 février 2010 - 05:25 .

[Endurance_117]

Ethan Mars





or Jacob?

[mothbanquet]

The thread was my support one hundred percent.

I am 25, male and straight.  If a ******/bisexual option for LIs was implemented i wouldn't necessarily take it myself, because it does not really relate to me.  Does that mean that the option shouldn't be available?  I really don't see why not because, as I said, I'm not going to take it so why should I care? 

Just because cigarettes are on sale it doesn't mean I have to buy them, nor should I care that other people smoke them.  Everyone complaining about having homosexuality forced upon them have no possible basis for that argument.  the only way that would be true would be if they decided to make Shepard EXCLUSIVELY gay, and that's not the point people here are trying to make.

I will say this: for me the LIs in ME were just as important to the overall story as the main plot, perhaps even more so.  To enable as many people as possible to relate to this important aspect of the story it would only make sense to enable the CHOICE of same sex relationships.

In a game that is about nothing else if not choice, the omission is extremely glaring.

Modifié par mothbanquet, 26 février 2010 - 05:25 .

[thegreateski]

Maybe they're just not that into you?

[didymos1120]

danman2424 wrote...
Huh? You seem to be replying to me with the assumption that I don't think games should be taken seriously.

So to clear that up, let me state that I do think games should be taken more seriously at some point. I don't think lavish choices about sexual preference would promote that. Especially not in a game about saving the galaxy in your starship.

No, more that you were being incoherent and contradictory.  At one point, you admonish someone for taking a game too seriously, and yet in practically the same breath, worry that gay dudes in space will cause a game to be treated without proper seriousness.  Now you seem to be concerned such a thing will delay the onset of proper seriousness.  Really, all I get from you (and the posts you've made since I last responded do nothing to alter that impression) is that you think gay dudes are inherently and inescapably comical.  Especially so when it's (insert dramatic reverb here) IN SPACE....

As I told you in another thread, if I were still 12, I'd probably agree with you.  Nowadays, I find things like your dogged insistence upon this "fact" comical.  Or annoying, depending upon my mood.  Right now, though, it's just tiresome, so I'll leave you to it.

Modifié par didymos1120, 26 février 2010 - 05:49 .

[Octorox]

Ryzaki wrote...

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...


Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

Good then someone making an exact duplicate of your cake and redesigning it and giving it to someone else won't bother you then right ? Because that is pretty much what a FemShepTali romance DLC is.

Spliting the cake is a bad analogy seeing as you're not actually losing anything. You choose if you want to eat the new cake or not if its DLC. No one will force it on you.

But the Mass Effect universe isn't your's or anyone's, it's Bioware's. Shepard, however, is yours, as Shepard you can do everything in your power through your charm and awesomeness to make Tali in love with you. As Shepard you cannot magically download something that will change her orientation.

To be clear I SUPPORT same-sex marriage in Mas Effect. However, I do not think it should be added to any of the existing characters. I would rather see a new ME3 or DLC character created.

Uh. Yes you can. Its a video game. If I can magically download additional characters out of nowhere I can change Tali's orientation. Tis optional. No one will hold a gun to anyone's head and make them download the game.

You can't download them "out of nowhere" there is always a lore explanation. Zaeed was recruited by TIM. If they created DLC that made Tali bi I would demand an in-game lore explanation to be satisfied. If Tali's bi, she's bi in all iterations of the ME universe, as Commander Shepard and his/her actions and choices is the only malleable aspect of the Lore. This isn't the Sims, you aren't given god powers.

Modifié par Octorox, 26 février 2010 - 05:29 .

[cutthecameras]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

You know you have to share Tali with thousands of other male Shepards, right?   This isn't a problem?

sigh...I give up. I'll be on here all night if I continue.

I don't think any of us can relate because our only option so far has been to "share" our LI's with straight gamers like yourself and I must admit, it hasn't cheapened my game. An exclusively lesbian character would be awesome but ultimately unnessesary. However if they did implement someone like that and then came out with DLC to make her bi I would be a little bit bothered, but only because this would be the first case of an openly gay character being made bi to appease straight players in the form of DLC. "Okay guys, have at her!" would come to mind.

[tmelange]

Endurance_117 wrote...

Ethan Mars


or Jacob?

Who is this Ethan Mars?

[Ryzaki]

Octorox wrote...
You can't download them "out of nowhere" there is always a lore explanation. Zaeed was recruited by TIM. If they created DLC that made Tali bi I would demand an in-game lore explanation to be satisfied.

How about the fact that she's attracted to FemShep? You make it sound like Tali's personality, ideals and everything else would need to be changed to accomadate this. Or that this would happen post game or something.

Also: Jack isn't romanced in all interations of the ME universe, she isn't alive in all interations, she isn't loyal in all, and the list goes on. So why is that sooo different than Tali being in love with FemShep? Oh noes! Her sexuality changed in someone else's game completely unrelated to mine and is completely avoidable but I feel *betrayed* by BioWare.

If someone here said they were *betrayed* by BioWare not having M/M they'd be looked at strangely. How is that any different? 

What's the lore explanation for the weapons, the guns and armor? Is there one? Or better yet the unremovable helms and the fact that everyone can recongnize you wearing them? Or the infamous drinking through the helmets.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 février 2010 - 05:34 .

[Endurance_117]

tmelange wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

Ethan Mars


or Jacob?

Who is this Ethan Mars?

One of Heavy Rains main characters

[FKA_Servo]

Please stay on topic, folks. This thread is about Mass Effect, not Heavy Rain.

[SirGladiator]

Octorox wrote...

SirGladiator wrote...

Tali makes it quite clear that she is in love with Shepard, MaleShep and FemShep alike. The only difference is that FemShep players don't get to enjoy the full romance that MaleShep players do. Its rather comicly strange to suggest there would be something wrong with letting FemShep players simply play the romance the same way MaleShep players do. I agree with the vast majority of folks who would like that change made.

She does? Love is different than physical attraction, which she definitely displayed toward my Male Shepard.

She does, and I suppose that makes my point as well as anything.  The fact that you (or any other MaleShep player) aren't effected in any way by how Tali behaves around FemShep, you didn't even know she showed love and attraction for FemShep (just for a lesser amount of time, since FemShep players dont get to play the end of the romance) proves my point, what FemShep players can or can't do with a Tali romance, or a romance with any other character, doesn't effect in any way a MaleShep romance with said character.  Nobody wants to make the romances less awesome for MaleShep players, Im glad MaleShep players get such awesome romance options in ME2, we FemShep players don't want to change any of it, we like it just the way it is too, we simply want to experience that same full amount of awesomeness for ourselves . 

[Jimmy Fury]

Octorox wrote...
 My Tali can't be straight while yours is bi, as sexual orientation is a biological condition, just as much as gender or eye color. 

And that appears to be where our lines of thinking differ. I don't view every option as existing simultaneously. I view each playthrough as it's own unique version of Shepard's story. If I make a choice in playthrough 1, it is the only course of action that exists. If I start a second playthrough, my previous choices are all irrelivant because this is a new story with a new Shepard.

Let me use an existing "bi option" just for the sake of clarity.
If you play John Shepard and romance Liara, then for all intents and purposes relivant to your game, Liara is a heterosexual romance option.
If I play as Jane Shepard and flirt with Liara, then yadda yadda, Liara is a lesbian romance option.
Bisexuality never actually comes into play because I don't experience Liara romancing a male and you don't experience Liara romancing a female.
In fact, the simple matter of Liara romancing Shepard actually upholds the notion that it is predefined because any player-variation of Shepard is irrelivant.

Further more, the logic used in your argument could also be used against all DLC since all DLC adds something to the game that wasn't there before. Already I have a new set of armor and a new weapon that I didn't have in my first playthrough. Similarly by time it comes out I will likely have a Hammerhead and Kasumi in my third playthrough when neither existed in my previous games.

[cutthecameras]

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...


Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

Good then someone making an exact duplicate of your cake and redesigning it and giving it to someone else won't bother you then right ? Because that is pretty much what a FemShepTali romance DLC is.

Spliting the cake is a bad analogy seeing as you're not actually losing anything. You choose if you want to eat the new cake or not if its DLC. No one will force it on you.

But the Mass Effect universe isn't your's or anyone's, it's Bioware's. Shepard, however, is yours, as Shepard you can do everything in your power through your charm and awesomeness to make Tali in love with you. As Shepard you cannot magically download something that will change her orientation.

To be clear I SUPPORT same-sex marriage in Mas Effect. However, I do not think it should be added to any of the existing characters. I would rather see a new ME3 or DLC character created.

Uh. Yes you can. Its a video game. If I can magically download additional characters out of nowhere I can change Tali's orientation. Tis optional. No one will hold a gun to anyone's head and make them download the game.

You can't download them "out of nowhere" there is always a lore explanation. Zaeed was recruited by TIM. If they created DLC that made Tali bi I would demand an in-game lore explanation to be satisfied. If Tali's bi, she's bi in all iterations of the ME universe, as Commander Shepard and his/her actions and choices is the only malleable aspect of the Lore. This isn't the Sims, you aren't given god powers.

I'm very confused as to why BI inevitably gets tossed around in all this, as if it matters.

As I said before. To make Tali bi is to acknowledge that she finds women and men attractive. It would be unnessesary to do so in a playthrough where she is romanced by a male shepard or a female shepard. I don't think it's a given that someone who falls in love with someone of their own sex is essentially bi or gay.

In real life do such labels really matter if you love the person enough?

[thegreateski]

Every person is Bisexual (whether they know it or not) until they get married.



Then they are Nosexual.

[Octorox]

Ryzaki wrote...

Octorox wrote...
You can't download them "out of nowhere" there is always a lore explanation. Zaeed was recruited by TIM. If they created DLC that made Tali bi I would demand an in-game lore explanation to be satisfied.

How about the fact that she's attracted to FemShep? You make it sound like Tali's personality, ideals and everything else would need to be changed to accomadate this. Or that this would happen post game or something.

What's the lore explanation for the weapons, the guns and armor? Is there one? Or better yet the unremovable helms and the fact that everyone can recongnize you wearing them? 

No, but sexual orientation is biological. It's not a preference, Tali can't "change her mind" about not being physically attracted to women. If they do go the DLC Route is should be more than just unlocking the same romance scenes for female Sheps. She ought to say something about repressing her sexuality because Quarian's look down upon same-sex relationships but she's ready now or something along those lines. he should also say something to Male Sheps about it, because that might change their opinion about romancing the character (it wouldn't change mine, but it might change some people's)

[cutthecameras]

thegreateski wrote...

Every person is Bisexual (whether they know it or not) until they get married.

Then they are Nosexual.

LOL