7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Lightice_av]

Right, because money isn't a resource. And time isn't one either.

The DLC budget is separate from the main budget and the DLC is done by entirely different teams than the main game. They only have a part-time supervisor from the main team who periodically reviews the works to ensure consistency and quality.

You should read both of those quotes.

They are neither accidental nor contradictory. I was very much aware of what I was writing.

[Grifon_600]

Well, yeah, I don't care if there will be homosexual romantic lines in ME3, but I hope they won't make it possible with old male characters. I mean, come on, do you really want to see gay Garrus or Joker? It will be fun for some, but the characters will be ruined!

Sorry for not reading 109 pages of the thread.

[Collider]

BrianWilly wrote...

Wanting equality and fair representation is not entitlement by any stretch of the imagination.  It's only entitlement if you want something that other people don't have, not something that others have but you don't.

Oh my god, it's about not equality or fair representation. Bioware isn't the government here, this thread isn't a march towards sexual equality under the Bioware government.

[Collider]

[quote]Lightice_av wrote...

[quote]
Right, because money isn't a resource. And time isn't one either.
[/quote]
The DLC budget is separate from the main budget and the DLC is done by entirely different teams than the main game. They only have a part-time supervisor from the main team who periodically reviews the works to ensure consistency and quality.[/quote]
The point is that while DLC teams may be seperate, they still use money and time from Bioware.

[quote]
You should read both of those quotes. [/quote]
They are neither accidental nor contradictory. I was very much aware of what I was writing. [/quote]
You said that directors ultimately decide what the writers write. Then, you say that "if anything" this proves that the writers wanted same sex romances. But you said yourself that the directors ultimately decide. What if they decided at one point against the writer's wishes for same sex romances?

[Lightice_av]

The point is that while DLC teams may be seperate, they still use money and time from Bioware.

Money and time that they already have been given, and won't go back to the main team, no matter what.

You said that directors ultimately decide what the writers write. Then, you say that "if anything" this proves that the writers wanted same sex romances. But you said yourself that the directors ultimately decide. What if they decided at one point against the writer's wishes for same sex romances?

My point kind of was that this probably/possibly happened; the writers were either prepared to do or had already done the same-sex dialogue when a director came along telling that there was no time and that had to go.

[Collider]

[quote]Lightice_av wrote...

[quote]
The point is that while DLC teams may be seperate, they still use money and time from Bioware.[/quote]
Money and time that they already have been given, and won't go back to the main team, no matter what.[/quote]
Every part of the DLC takes time and money. That would include retconning romances.

[quote]
You said that directors ultimately decide what the writers write. Then, you say that "if anything" this proves that the writers wanted same sex romances. But you said yourself that the directors ultimately decide. What if they decided at one point against the writer's wishes for same sex romances? [/quote]
My point kind of was that this probably/possibly happened; the writers were either prepared to do or had already done the same-sex dialogue when a director came along telling that there was no time and that had to go. [/quote]
That's a far cry from actively wanting same sex content. Like you said, in some cases the writers need to do as higher ups say.

[Lightice_av]

Every part of the DLC takes time and money. That would include retconning romances.

It certainly would be more worthwhile than yet another heavy weapon.

That's a far cry from actively wanting same sex content. Like you said, in some cases the writers need to do as higher ups say.

You may have noted that my posts on the matter were directed at a person who claimed that the writers are in charge and they clearly don't want any gayness in Mass Effect. I was setting him straight about the hierarchy and decision making in videogame business.

Both the writing and sound staff clearly worked to make the same-sex content possible, even though they didn't know whether it would be implemented or not - either they were doing it just in case, or because they wanted to smoothen the process.

[Tom Adama]

With that name you may want to watch out for certain Sam Adama and his tendency to murder people who annoy him. 

Haha, I watch Caprica also.

[Lightice_av]

Haha, I watch Caprica also.

I guessed as much. You may have noted that Sam is the most badass character in the show, and happens to be married to a man.

[Arik7]

How about Captain Jack Harkness from Torchwood? A strong bisexual character played by an openly gay actor.

[Charsen]

Arik7 wrote...

How about Captain Jack Harkness from Torchwood? A strong bisexual character played by an openly gay actor.

Yes! Good example.
Hmm... Captain Jack as the commander of the Normandy? No spoilers, but there are some good comparisons between Shepard and Jack regarding death and the organization he works for... I like where this is going.

[SorenTrigg]

Collider wrote...
Right, because money isn't a resource. And time isn't one either.

Please stop arguing that point. By your logic they should stop all their marketing as well.
Because, after all, that is taking away money they could be using to make ME3.

[Mavkiel]

rynluna wrote...

Here is my rant for the day...

Why do people tend to think that if MaleShep has a male romantic partner in ME3 or dlc, that it will be weird or silly? Nothing is going to change other than Maleshep having feelings for another male. He's not going to be some silly gay spectre or whatever these people are saying.
...
Furthermore, since these people won't even be playing as the Shep who romanced Kaidan or a new gay character how does that change anything for them??? They will never have to witness the romantic scene or flirty dialog between Male shep and whoever.

1) Zevran from Dragon age was pretty darn odd imo. However, I understand some people found him charming *shrugs*

Why couldn't this have happened during my sociology class? It'd have made a good term paper on Folkways and mores, and which this would fall into. I am suspecting that it could be either depending on the persons background. Consider that even the superbowl, turned down a commercial for a gay dating service, that only featured two guys kissing. Yet they will allow go-daddy and music stripper halftime shows. *sighs* Damn that would have been an easy paper.

[Charsen]

Mavkiel wrote...
1) Zevran from Dragon age was pretty darn odd imo. However, I understand some people found him charming *shrugs*

well, to be fair, Zevran isn't human and the setting is pretty different too.

[Arik7]

Arcian wrote...

Isn't this horse dead already?

No, we still haven't reached the 3000+ page count of the Tail threads....

[Collider]

SorenTrigg wrote...

Collider wrote...
Right, because money isn't a resource. And time isn't one either.

Please stop arguing that point. By your logic they should stop all their marketing as well.
Because, after all, that is taking away money they could be using to make ME3.

Uh no, that isn't my logic. I cited the resources for retcon romance DLC specifically as better used for ME3 instead. Don't use the strawman fallacy.

[Mordigan]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

And no, the crew of the Normandy is NOT a realistic percentage of the population. And it shouldn't be. It's a story about a hero/heroine and his/her fellow warriors, assassins, mercs, biotics, techs, scientists.... you cannot, and you should not, just tell me that they gotta be realistic about social strati in this hand picked crew. If they would have a higher percentage of bisexuals be present in the crew, than it would be laughable to argue that the percentage is slightly higher than in any group of random humans and therefore the immersion is gone.

I didn't say what Bioware should, and should not do..

I was only postulating as to why Bioware would not make all the romanceable characters bisexual....

Any developer that cares about realism in their setting would never do something as ridiculous as that, and it's quite obvious that realism (or setting integrity) matters to Bioware....otherwise they wouldnt' bother with trying to explain how the various technologies work in Mass Effect.

Personally, i would like all romancable crewmates to be interested no matter what gender i pick in the beginning, btw. But i would not demand this to happen. It's just because i dont care about sexual orientation that much. It's not important for me in real life and not in fantasy either (i could explain in detail why and what, but i rather skip this )

Personally, I would rather they not include romances at all.  These romances have caused far more problems than they're worth if you ask me.. 

[ARK of ILKS]

Mordigan wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

And no, the crew of the Normandy is NOT a realistic percentage of the population. And it shouldn't be. It's a story about a hero/heroine and his/her fellow warriors, assassins, mercs, biotics, techs, scientists.... you cannot, and you should not, just tell me that they gotta be realistic about social strati in this hand picked crew. If they would have a higher percentage of bisexuals be present in the crew, than it would be laughable to argue that the percentage is slightly higher than in any group of random humans and therefore the immersion is gone.

I didn't say what Bioware should, and should not do..

I was only postulating as to why Bioware would not make all the romanceable characters bisexual....

Any developer that cares about realism in their setting would never do something as ridiculous as that, and it's quite obvious that realism (or setting integrity) matters to Bioware....otherwise they wouldnt' bother with trying to explain how the various technologies work in Mass Effect.

Personally, i would like all romancable crewmates to be interested no matter what gender i pick in the beginning, btw. But i would not demand this to happen. It's just because i dont care about sexual orientation that much. It's not important for me in real life and not in fantasy either (i could explain in detail why and what, but i rather skip this )

Personally, I would rather they not include romances at all.  These romances have caused far more problems than they're worth if you ask me.. 

Support your opinion pal.

Liara was kinda pushy in ME1 if you asked me.

[Collider]

Mordigan wrote...
I was only postulating as to why Bioware would not make all the romanceable characters bisexual....

I agree with this.

Any developer that cares about realism in their setting would never do something as ridiculous as that, and it's quite obvious that realism (or setting integrity) matters to Bioware....

While there is plenty of care to provide scientific basis for the thngs in Mass Effect, some things are assuredly far fetched...considering the mind melding of the Asari, which has absolutely no precedence in reality so far as I'm aware. The asari in general basically. In that light, we could not really say for certain how likely a sexuality is within an alien race. It is convenient for most of a race to be heterosexual or bisexual though.

Personally, I would rather they not include romances at all.  These romances have caused far more problems than they're worth if you ask me.. 

I don't really consider the same people posting over and over again in the same sex thread asking for same sex romances to really be a problem. If you're referring to the Fox News thing, I don't see that as happening again given how grossly misinformed that segment was. And I only imagine that the coverage increased sales.

[Mordigan]

Lightice_av wrote...
The bottom line is that you are no better informed that we are, and by no means more knowledgeable or objectively closer to the truth.

Then your comment about "Bioware wanting to include same sex content" is just as invalid as mine was..

Grand majority of the dialogue, including the romance dialogue is gender neutral, and the disks contain remains of same-sex romance dialogue - this is a fact. Hence the implications are that the writers wanted to keep the window open for the option, but did not ultimately implement it for whatever reason; again, time constraints is the only official answer that we have.

Yes, the vast majority of dialogue is gender neutral because.........FemShep and DudeShep are THE SAME PERSON (from the game's perspective) and it makes sense for them to do that.

As for the disk containing same sex dialogue, I've said it multiple times and I'll say it again.

Both Meer and Hale record ALL dialogue for Shepard (much like the first game), and then it's probably up to programmers to determine what lines get spoken at what point..  The romanceable NPC's usually have some sort of gender specific dialogue which precludes the idea that they were meant to be S/S romance options.

It makes no sense that Bioware would want to include S/S romance for both games, record the dialogue options, and leave them out both times..

Once probably....but TWICE?!  No way...

[DaeJi]

Mordigan wrote...

Any developer that cares about realism in their setting would never do something as ridiculous as that, and it's quite obvious that realism (or setting integrity) matters to Bioware....otherwise they wouldnt' bother with trying to explain how the various technologies work in Mass Effect.
 

Any good fantasy writer (and Mass Effect is closer to space fantasy than science fiction) will tell you that realism is a fine scarifice to make for a story. Now, I don't always agree with that, and I feel that the amount of rea... okay, the setting of Mass Effect isn't that realistic. But it has it's own logic and it works. My point is is that realism is a poor goal for fantasy works; not to say that having several bisexual characters in one group is unrealistic. Ratios and such only matter on a large scale basis. If the writers for Mass Effect 2 were really wanted their story to be as realistic as possible, Shepard wouldn't be back, at least not with his or her personality, memories, etc. in tacted.

[DaeJi]

Mordigan wrote...

It makes no sense that Bioware would want to include S/S romance for both games, record the dialogue options, and leave them out both times..

Once probably....but TWICE?!  No way...

And yet they did. Strange, that. From the evidense found, I would say that so far the most sound conclusion is that at one point in the game's development, likely when the dialog was being recorded, same sex romance options were on the table but were then taken out for reasons so far unknown. This is only a theory of course, but without direct word from BioWare on why there is no same sex romances in the game despite the hidden sound files then all we have are theories.