7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

Tom Adama wrote...
yet they only occured with LESBIAN romanticism, something that the modern day male ENDORSES.

Look at the market and create a game to that... they targetted the right people in my opinion.

DA:O had gay romances. And the sales were great. I actually doubt that very many guys bought Mass Effect just because of the lesbian romance.

[lewis1306]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

lewis1306 wrote...

Lewis1306, his Shepard, and 90% of his male coworkers, friends, and family members who have played ME1 or ME2 are VERY pro "lesbian vibe".

and the award for the hottest scene in ME1 goes to: Drumroll please............ Liara and femshep!
(there is a tie for the hottest scene in ME2  between Kelly and femshep and Miranda and Maleshep)

Congratulations on your entirely stereotypical predilections. Explain, please, why your interests should be represented in game but ours - in support of both f/f and m/m romance options - should not. 'It squicks me out' will not be accepted as a reason.

You know,

I was going to make an attempt at intellectualizing my response to this post but I decided to delete that in favor of "keeping it real".

Honestly, There is no real reason why Bioware should not include the option for two dudes kissing in Mass Effect other than this: It grosses most hetero sexual male gamers out.

The number of gamers who want to see the option for dude on dude lovin'  in Mass Effect is far, far, FAR lower than the number of people who would be grossed out or turned off by it or the number of people who would be against it's inclusion for whaterver reason.

first off, 90% of people who play Mass Effect probably don't really care either way.

Of the people who do care, there are probably more players (epecially hetero sexual males) who are against the inclusion of an optional gay scene for maleshep than there are who are for it. these guys may not visit the forums, but they definitely represent a silent majority.

Don't believe me? perform this little test: go to your local gamestop and start up a conversation with a male gamer about mass effect. then, slip in something like "hey, I hear they are coming out with a new Male character through DLC  that is a possible romance option for male Shepards and more often than not, the response will be something like "EWWWWWWWWWW".

now, I know that this is not the most philosophical or intellectual answer but it is definitely among the most real and down to earth. Does that make it any less valid?

is it fair? well,  the fact that you can't make Shepard into an obese midget isn't exactly fair to all the obese midget's out there either. Does bioware have to address every minority in order to be concidered fair?
What about people who are sexually  attracted to horses? Does Bioware have to include a bucking bronco or a wild stallion in ME3 in order to be fair?

Modifié par lewis1306, 10 mars 2010 - 06:14 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Not entirely sure why 'sweetness' would make a galaxy-saving space marine less awesome, either. It's possible to be a badass and a nice person...it's all in where and when you apply it.

[Collider]

lewis1306 wrote...

You know,

I was going to make an attempt at intellectualizing my response to this post but I decided to delete that in favor of "keeping it real".

Honestly, There is no real reason why Bioware should not include the option for two dudes kissing in Mass Effect other than this: It grosses most hetero sexual male gamers out.

You don't think that lesbian romances gross out some heterosexual females? It works both ways. Besides DA:O had a gay romance, and Bioware did not crumble into itself. If ME3 romances are like ME2 romances, you can exit relationships at any times.

is it fair? well,  the fact that you can't make Shepard into an obese midget isn't exactly fair to all the obese midget's out there either. Does bioware have to address every minority in order to be concidered fair?

Whereas um..."obese midgets" has nothing to do with sexual orientations (LOL) I agree with your general sentiment. This has nothing to do with fairness.

[lewis1306]

Collider wrote...

lewis1306 wrote...

You know,

I was going to make an attempt at intellectualizing my response to this post but I decided to delete that in favor of "keeping it real".

Honestly, There is no real reason why Bioware should not include the option for two dudes kissing in Mass Effect other than this: It grosses most hetero sexual male gamers out.

You don't think that lesbian romances gross out some heterosexual females? It works both ways. Besides DA:O had a gay romance, and Bioware did not crumble into itself. If ME3 romances are like ME2 romances, you can exit relationships at any times.

is it fair? well,  the fact that you can't make Shepard into an obese midget isn't exactly fair to all the obese midget's out there either. Does bioware have to address every minority in order to be concidered fair?

Whereas um..."obese midgets" has nothing to do with sexual orientations (LOL) I agree with your general sentiment. This has nothing to do with fairness.

Lol... True.

I added ithe "obese midget part" for color

Modifié par lewis1306, 10 mars 2010 - 06:20 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

lewis1306 wrote...

You know,

I was going to make an attempt at intellectualizing my response to this post but I decided to delete that in favor of "keeping it real".

Honestly, There is no real reason why Bioware should not include the option for two dudes kissing in Mass Effect other than this: It grosses most hetero sexual male gamers out.

The number of gamers who want to see the option for dude on dude lovin'  in Mass Effect is far, far, FAR lower than the number of people who would be grossed out or turned off by it or the number of people who would be against it's inclusion for whaterver reason.

first off, 90% of people who play Mass Effect probably don't really care either way.

Of the people who do care, there are probably more players (epecially hetero sexual males) who are against the inclusion of an optional gay scene for maleshep than there are who are for it. these guys may not visit the forums, but they definitely represent a silent majority.

Don't believe me? perform this little test: go to your local gamestop and start up a conversation with someone about mass effect. then, slip in something like "hey, I hear they are coming out with a new Male character through DLC  that is a possible romance option for male Shepards and more often than not, the response will be something like "EWWWWWWWWWW".

now, I know that this is not the most philosophical or intellectual answer but it is definitely among the most real and down to earth. Does that make it any less valid?

is it fair? well,  the fact that you can't make Shepard into an obese midget isn't exactly fair to all the obese midget's out there either. Does bioware have to address every minority in order to be concidered fair?
What about people who are sexually  attracted to horses? Does Bioware have to include a bucking bronco or a wild stallion in ME3 in order to be fair?

See Collider's post above, mentioning DA:O and the utter lack of hurt sales. Also, see me dismiss out of hand yet another comparison to consensual m/m attraction and bestiality. Merely because the idea of these two things disgust you equally, does not make them equal.

[Allison W]

Tom Adama wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

Haha, I watch Caprica also.

I guessed as much. You may have noted that Sam is the most badass character in the show, and happens to be married to a man.

... Ok, but I hope you realize Sam's purpose on the show, it's to have culture shock value for the viewer. Ron Moore and David Eick are trying to show us the ignorance of human progression, and ultimately the self-destructive nature of unending aspirations towards unfounded tolerance.

In Caprica it was ok for; sons to sleep with Mothers, normal bars would feature completely naked tenders, group families comprised of bisexual couples swapping sex partners nightly, ritual sacrifices, technology run amock, colony culture clashes, entire teen subcultures RAISED literally by technology etc.

Caprica is a ultra-modern picture of where society WILL be heading, do you view it as a utopia? As a viewer, the Cylons were RIGHT to wipe out the humans, they were DISGUSTING! This is the point, humanity lost its perspective and moral reserve; they tolerated EVERYTHING. As Apollo said," Our minds always outraced our hearts."

Sam's purpose is to show that the typical male persona in the colonies involves homosexual behaviors. Sex was no longer reserved for man and woman but for all humans. If Sam was born here, he is much less likely to be gay than if he was born in the colonies. Homosexuality was no longer taboo, it was part of colony culture just as heterosexual behaviour was. Now don't go on a tangeant and tell me that people who are gay are born gay, that must mean that ALL men in Ancient Greece must have been gay; that is rediculous, it was considered POSH and FAD to be gay. Only the intellectuals and rich had gay relations, and only the poor did otherwise.

(FYI, I am a HBsc. double Major of Neuroscience and Psychology from University of Toronto, sexuality is NOT genetic or even biological)

... Homosexuality was PROMOTED in ancient times, yet after polytheism was abandoned it became taboo. Now that secularism is sneaking back in, it's re-appearing.

Sam is not like Shepard. Shepard is a galactic hero while Sam is a murderous mobster for a cult. Would you use a gay Shepard in a story emphasizing "humanities best" in the main character? Cmon... Bioware got AROUND that issue by making lesbian relationships occur with monogendered Asari, yet they only occured with LESBIAN romanticism, something that the modern day male ENDORSES.

Look at the market and create a game to that... they targetted the right people in my opinion.

Someone who's in neuroscience should understand that everything about the mind is biological--even something as unimportant as a long-term memory of what you had for breakfast last Monday is a physical part of the brain, stored as connections in a network of synapses. Even a fleeting short-term memory is biological, existing in the form of chemical bonds. Yet this manages to elude you?

I call bull****.

[lewis1306]

Collider wrote...


You don't think that lesbian romances gross out some heterosexual females? It works both ways. Besides DA:O had a gay romance, and Bioware did not crumble into itself. If ME3 romances are like ME2 romances, you can exit relationships at any times.

I'll grant you that  some heterosexual females will be somewhat grossed out by the whole Liara femshep thing or the kelly femshep thing... but i don't think you can compare that to the hetero male response to dudeluv in scale or intesity.

if two girls kiss on TV, a few heterosexual females will roll their eyes.
if two guys kiss on TV, a large percentage of heterosexual guys will actually change the channel.

[Collider]

lewis1306 wrote...

Collider wrote...


You don't think that lesbian romances gross out some heterosexual females? It works both ways. Besides DA:O had a gay romance, and Bioware did not crumble into itself. If ME3 romances are like ME2 romances, you can exit relationships at any times.

I'll grant you that  some heterosexual females will be somewhat grossed out by the whole Liara femshep thing or the kelly femshep thing... but i don't think you can compare that to the hetero male response to dudeluv in scale or intesity.

if two girls kiss on TV, a few heterosexual females will roll their eyes.
if two guys kiss on TV, a large percentage of heterosexual guys will actually change the channel.

That's not exactly the point. The point being that some heterosexual females will be grossed out or annoyed by it. I'm sure of them aren't ecstatic that they get hit on by female PC's.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

lewis1306 wrote...

Honestly, There is no real reason why Bioware should not include the option for two dudes kissing in Mass Effect other than this: It grosses most hetero sexual male gamers out.

The number of gamers who want to see the option for dude on dude lovin'  in Mass Effect is far, far, FAR lower than the number of people who would be grossed out or turned off by it or the number of people who would be against it's inclusion for whaterver reason.

first off, 90% of people who play Mass Effect probably don't really care either way.

Of the people who do care, there are probably more players (epecially hetero sexual males) who are against the inclusion of an optional gay scene for maleshep than there are who are for it. these guys may not visit the forums, but they definitely represent a silent majority.

I think your assumption of demographics is off. For starters, there's no acknowledgement anywhere in there of female gamers, of any orientation. We're a fairly sizable population. Additionally, we're quite likely to play games like the ones Bioware creates - that's my anecdata contribution. So your hypothesis is that the number of straight males who don't want other people to have the option of choosing an m/m LI is greater than not only the group of gay male gamers, but also the group of straight female gamers who enjoy m/m options, plus those gamers of both sexes who support s/s LIs. I don't find that likely.

[Allison W]

Tom Adama wrote...

Well secularism is already here, the reason being that monarchies have been abandoned in favor of democratic governments where large volumes of beliefs constantly clash. Secularism also permits freedom of belief and removes higher philosphies from self-governing societal bodies.

And no, people are not born gay or straight, society teaches them what is erotic or desirable. Sexuality is ENTIRELY psychological, there are no brain correlates that yield "straight of gay". Even prisoners with XYY's commit homosexual acts in prisons, how can they be born gay if they are super-male?

Some of us don't bend knee to Christendom.

Also: if sexual orientation is nothing but a result of societal teachings, how did homosexuality come to exist in societies that ferociously suppress it? How did heterosexuality survive, among the vast majority of the population, in cultures that glorified homosexuality over heterosexuality?

Have you considered that being genetically "super-male" has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation? Are you saying that someone with an extra male chromosome can't still be subjected to different hormonal inputs in the womb/early childhood? Or are you completely unaware of the role that hormones play in the development and differentiation of the body, including the brain?

And if you're a neuroscientist, how on Earth can you not be aware that the mind itself, right down to the most insignificant, fleeting thought, is physical? Admittedly, I asked you this in my last post.

[lewis1306]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

See Collider's post above, mentioning DA:O and the utter lack of hurt sales. Also, see me dismiss out of hand yet another comparison to consensual m/m attraction and bestiality. Merely because the idea of these two things disgust you equally, does not make them equal.

It's difficult to quantify a grossout factor...

and, just because the idea of bestiality and two dudes gettin' it on does not disgust you equally does not mean the two things are not equally gross to many people.

you can that sentiment out of hand if you want, it's all good in my book... just know that you are dismissing the sentiment of a very large number of gamers. (a number that is most likely larger than the number of gamers that want to see two dudes kissing on the normandy)

[Darthnemesis2]

If this "vary large number of gamers" doesn't want to see two dude kissing, you know what they can do? Not initiate the romance, it really is that simple. For those of us who want the option, however, if its not included there is nothing we can do.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

lewis1306 wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

See Collider's post above, mentioning DA:O and the utter lack of hurt sales. Also, see me dismiss out of hand yet another comparison to consensual m/m attraction and bestiality. Merely because the idea of these two things disgust you equally, does not make them equal.

It's difficult to quantify a grossout factor...

and, just because the idea of bestiality and two dudes gettin' it on does not disgust you equally does not mean the two things are not equally gross to many people.

you can that sentiment out of hand if you want, it's all good in my book... just know that you are dismissing the sentiment of a very large number of gamers. (a number that is most likely larger than the number of gamers that want to see two dudes kissing on the normandy)

You know what's gross? Using armor piercing ammo with the Widow to take some guy's head off. Also, the body horror that was part and parcel of DA:O's 'A Paragon of Her Kind' storyline. 'Gross' is largely subjective, and I've yet to see a reason why it should be taken into account for one group but not for others.

What you're positing is the very definition of a double standard: you're claiming righteous exclusion of m/m because it grosses out some undefined, hypothetical percentage of straight male gamers, but dismissing the idea that similar dislike by straight women of f/f (also entirely undefined and hypothetical) should be considered on par. 'Men find it grosser than women' has nothing to support or justify it as a measure for decision-making, except your feelings on the matter.

It's still coming down to 'I think it's icky,' and frankly if that were enough of a reason to exclude something, there's a hell of a lot of content that would never get put into games, period.

[lewis1306]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

lewis1306 wrote...

Honestly, There is no real reason why Bioware should not include the option for two dudes kissing in Mass Effect other than this: It grosses most hetero sexual male gamers out.

The number of gamers who want to see the option for dude on dude lovin'  in Mass Effect is far, far, FAR lower than the number of people who would be grossed out or turned off by it or the number of people who would be against it's inclusion for whaterver reason.

first off, 90% of people who play Mass Effect probably don't really care either way.

Of the people who do care, there are probably more players (epecially hetero sexual males) who are against the inclusion of an optional gay scene for maleshep than there are who are for it. these guys may not visit the forums, but they definitely represent a silent majority.

I think your assumption of demographics is off. For starters, there's no acknowledgement anywhere in there of female gamers, of any orientation. We're a fairly sizable population. Additionally, we're quite likely to play games like the ones Bioware creates - that's my anecdata contribution. So your hypothesis is that the number of straight males who don't want other people to have the option of choosing an m/m LI is greater than not only the group of gay male gamers, but also the group of straight female gamers who enjoy m/m options, plus those gamers of both sexes who support s/s LIs. I don't find that likely.

i can see where you are coming from here.

The problem here is that neither of us have hard numbers to back up our assumptions. All either of us really have is the  knowledge that we have gained from our various experiances, conversations with other people and our observations.

I acknowlege that even though the majority of Mass Effect players are heterosexual males, there is also  a VERY sizable contingency of female gamers. I concidered this before I even posted the comment.

As for the rest of your post. You don't find it likely but I do. We just have to respectfully to disagree on that one.

I can't help but wonder whether or not Bioware took this type demographic information into account before the decided NOT to include the option for Maleshep to have a male love interest. My guess is that they did and that many of my assumptions are correct... but i have no way of being sure.

it stands to reason that Bioware could have added it if they wanted to.
Casey Hudson seemed pretty satisfied in the Dev teams decision not to add it in an interview that he gave last year...

[lewis1306]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

lewis1306 wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

See Collider's post above, mentioning DA:O and the utter lack of hurt sales. Also, see me dismiss out of hand yet another comparison to consensual m/m attraction and bestiality. Merely because the idea of these two things disgust you equally, does not make them equal.

It's difficult to quantify a grossout factor...

and, just because the idea of bestiality and two dudes gettin' it on does not disgust you equally does not mean the two things are not equally gross to many people.

you can that sentiment out of hand if you want, it's all good in my book... just know that you are dismissing the sentiment of a very large number of gamers. (a number that is most likely larger than the number of gamers that want to see two dudes kissing on the normandy)

You know what's gross? Using armor piercing ammo with the Widow to take some guy's head off. Also, the body horror that was part and parcel of DA:O's 'A Paragon of Her Kind' storyline. 'Gross' is largely subjective, and I've yet to see a reason why it should be taken into account for one group but not for others.

What you're positing is the very definition of a double standard: you're claiming righteous exclusion of m/m because it grosses out some undefined, hypothetical percentage of straight male gamers, but dismissing the idea that similar dislike by straight women of f/f (also entirely undefined and hypothetical) should be considered on par. 'Men find it grosser than women' has nothing to support or justify it as a measure for decision-making, except your feelings on the matter.

It's still coming down to 'I think it's icky,' and frankly if that were enough of a reason to exclude something, there's a hell of a lot of content that would never get put into games, period.

OK, Fine.

many of your points are valid and even I  have  to admit that most of my objections to the optional male on male content can be boiled down and simplified into: "I think it's Icky" and "men find it grosser than women".

I'm not on here claiming to be a scientist of a philosopher. I'm just a gamer.

the long and short of it may not be more complicated than "the demand is not large enough to warrant it's inclusion because most people think it's gross". That's my sentiment, as simple as it is, I think that there are many people who feel like that.

My question is this: why would Bioware, after including gay characters in 2 out of three of it's most recent RPG IPs decide against it's inclusion in the Mass Effect franchise?

I would be interested to hear what supporters of M/M love interests in ME think is Bioware's reasoning behind this.
I know the Bioware is not  homophobic, or biased in any way so there must be some other motivating factor behind this deliberate exclusion.

I am willing to bet that the answer is pretty simple.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

lewis1306 wrote...

My question is this: why would Bioware, after including gay characters in 2 out of three of it's most recent RPG IPs decide against it's inclusion in the Mass Effect franchise?

I would be interested to hear what supporters of M/M love interests in ME think is Bioware's reasoning behind this.
I know the Bioware is not  homophobic, or biased in any way so there must be some other motivating factor behind this deliberate exclusion.

If that's what you're interested in, I suggest you read through this thread. There's plenty of speculation as to why content was created but not included (ME1) or started but not finished (ME2).

[AlanC9]

lewis1306 wrote...
many of your points are valid and even I  have  to admit that most of my objections to the optional male on male content can be boiled down and simplified into: "I think it's Icky" and "men find it grosser than women". 

OK, it's icky. Whatever. The thing I'm still missing is why does anyone care what someone else will be doing in the game?

It's obvious that some people do, but I don't understand why.

[lewis1306]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

lewis1306 wrote...

My question is this: why would Bioware, after including gay characters in 2 out of three of it's most recent RPG IPs decide against it's inclusion in the Mass Effect franchise?

I would be interested to hear what supporters of M/M love interests in ME think is Bioware's reasoning behind this.
I know the Bioware is not  homophobic, or biased in any way so there must be some other motivating factor behind this deliberate exclusion.

If that's what you're interested in, I suggest you read through this thread. There's plenty of speculation as to why content was created but not included (ME1) or started but not finished (ME2).

I read through a large enough quantity. I think that most of the speculation on the forum on the part of the supporters of same sex relationships is just wishful thinking like "maybe they just ran out of time and resourses" etc...

it almost seems that they are skirting around the (very likely) possibility that Bioware just thought long and hard about it and concluded that adding the optional gay content in Mass Effect would be a bad idea and that the pro's for adding the content did not outweigh the cons.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

lewis1306 wrote...

I read through a large enough quantity. I think that most of the speculation on the forum on the part of the supporters of same sex relationships is just wishful thinking like "maybe they just ran out of time and resourses" etc...

it almost seems that they are skirting around the (very likely) possibility that Bioware just thought long and hard about it and concluded that adding the optional gay content in Mass Effect would be a bad idea and that the pro's for adding the content did not outweigh the cons.

And here's where we differ. I don't find 'maybe they ran out of time or resources' any more a case of wishful thinking than 'maybe they thought about it and decided that keeping m/m content was a bad idea but f/f was totally fine.' There've been no concrete statements on this from Bioware, save one (IIRC) that referenced time and resources.

It's mostly moot anyway, IMO. The point of this thread is, among other things, to give Bioware an indication that there are a lot of people that would like to see s/s content, including m/m, in ME3 and (possibly) DLC/patches for ME1 and 2, as well as posible ways to implement it. We know the content was there, and that it was left out or not fully developed, and we're expressing support for its inclusion in the event that they thought there wasn't a market for it. Tali and Garrus-mancers were able to sway the devs - maybe we can, too.

We're not asking for options to be cut - we'd just like to see some additional ones included. If DA is any indication, including them is not likely to hurt sales.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 10 mars 2010 - 08:17 .

[lewis1306]

Here's the differance between the Garrius and Tali love support forums and this one:

Almost all of the people on the Tali/Garruis love forums were on the same page. Everyone was pretty much in favor of Tali/Garrius romance and there was basically unanimous support for it.

In contrast... the homosexual romance forums are a freakin' war zone. How many same sex forums where closed so far due to people on the other side getting upset about the idea... the very mention of the possible option?

Not too many people came onto the Tali forum to voice vehement objections to the option.

There were no "anti Tali/Garruis romance" forums and groups that popped up.

Do you really think these "same sex romance" forums would be likely to sway the dev's when each page is argument after argument? The pro S/S romance forums don't show a huge demand... they show a huge conflict. These forums just confirm that this is very conroversial, not that is a huge fan outcry.

hell, there are even forum topics like "Bioware, please close the same sex romance forum" etc...
I have never seen anything like that in regards to the tali love and Garrius love forums.

Modifié par lewis1306, 10 mars 2010 - 08:44 .

[Fade9wayz]

Allison W wrote...

Tom Adama wrote...

Well secularism is already here, the reason being that monarchies have been abandoned in favor of democratic governments where large volumes of beliefs constantly clash. Secularism also permits freedom of belief and removes higher philosphies from self-governing societal bodies.

And no, people are not born gay or straight, society teaches them what is erotic or desirable. Sexuality is ENTIRELY psychological, there are no brain correlates that yield "straight of gay". Even prisoners with XYY's commit homosexual acts in prisons, how can they be born gay if they are super-male?

Some of us don't bend knee to Christendom.

Also: if sexual orientation is nothing but a result of societal teachings, how did homosexuality come to exist in societies that ferociously suppress it? How did heterosexuality survive, among the vast majority of the population, in cultures that glorified homosexuality over heterosexuality?

Have you considered that being genetically "super-male" has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation? Are you saying that someone with an extra male chromosome can't still be subjected to different hormonal inputs in the womb/early childhood? Or are you completely unaware of the role that hormones play in the development and differentiation of the body, including the brain?

And if you're a neuroscientist, how on Earth can you not be aware that the mind itself, right down to the most insignificant, fleeting thought, is physical? Admittedly, I asked you this in my last post.

-sighs- We are not discussing 'homosexuality and (RL) society' here. Please, you two, stay on-topic

[Fade9wayz]

lewis1306 wrote...

Here's the differance between the Garrius and Tali love support forums and this one:

Almost all of the people on the Tali/Garruis love forums were on the same page. Everyone was pretty much in favor of Tali/Garrius romance and there was basically unanimous support for it.

In contrast... the homosexual romance forums are a freakin' war zone. Hell, how many same sex forums where closed so far due to people on the other side getting upset about the idea... the very mention of the possible option?

Not too many people came onto the Tali forum to voice vehement objections to the option.

There were no "anti Tali/Garruis romance" forums and groups that popped up.

Do you really think these "same sex romance" forums would be likely to sway the dev's when each page is argument after argument? The pro S/S romance forums don't show a huge demand... they show a huge conflict. These forums just confirm that this is very conroversial, not that is a huge fan outcry.

hell, there are even forum topics like "Bioware, please close the same sex romance forum" etc...

I don't know if it will sway Bioware in our favor, we can hope though. The only thing that is certain, is that if we don't try to make ourselves heard and don't come up with intelligent argument to promote it, then there is probably no chance that it ever will. Controversy is not necesseraly a bad thing, it can actually help fine-tuning our arguments.

edit for clarification

Modifié par Fade9wayz, 10 mars 2010 - 09:00 .

[Wittand25]

lewis1306 wrote...

Here's the differance between the Garrius and Tali love support forums and this one:

Almost all of the people on the Tali/Garruis love forums were on the same page. Everyone was pretty much in favor of Tali/Garrius romance and there was basically unanimous support for it.

In contrast... the homosexual romance forums are a freakin' war zone. How many same sex forums where closed so far due to people on the other side getting upset about the idea... the very mention of the possible option?

Not too many people came onto the Tali forum to voice vehement objections to the option.

There were no "anti Tali/Garruis romance" forums and groups that popped up.

Do you really think these "same sex romance" forums would be likely to sway the dev's when each page is argument after argument? The pro S/S romance forums don't show a huge demand... they show a huge conflict. These forums just confirm that this is very conroversial, not that is a huge fan outcry.

hell, there are even forum topics like "Bioware, please close the same sex romance forum" etc...
I have never seen anything like that in regards to the tali love and Garrius love forums.

The group in favor of same-sex romances has more than twenty times as many members as the one opposed to it. Gay threads get locked more easily because they get more often reported to the moderators.Most of the arguments in this thread are also not about if but how a s/s romance should be implented in the ME games.

And there are anti-insertnpc-groups for nearly all of the npcs of DA and ME.

[lewis1306]

Fade9wayz wrote...

lewis1306 wrote...

Here's the differance between the Garrius and Tali love support forums and this one:

Almost all of the people on the Tali/Garruis love forums were on the same page. Everyone was pretty much in favor of Tali/Garrius romance and there was basically unanimous support for it.

In contrast... the homosexual romance forums are a freakin' war zone. Hell, how many same sex forums where closed so far due to people on the other side getting upset about the idea... the very mention of the possible option?

Not too many people came onto the Tali forum to voice vehement objections to the option.

There were no "anti Tali/Garruis romance" forums and groups that popped up.

Do you really think these "same sex romance" forums would be likely to sway the dev's when each page is argument after argument? The pro S/S romance forums don't show a huge demand... they show a huge conflict. These forums just confirm that this is very conroversial, not that is a huge fan outcry.

hell, there are even forum topics like "Bioware, please close the same sex romance forum" etc...

I don't know if it will sway Bioware, we can hope though. The only thing that is certain, is that if we don't try to make ourselves heard and don't come up with intelligent argument to promote it, then there is probably no chance that it ever will. Controversy is not necesseraly a bad thing, it can actually help fine-tuning our arguments.

Well,

I can't fault you guys for trying.

For me the content (even though it would be entirely optional) would be a definite Negative for the game but I'm not  a hater so it wouldn't cause me to not buy the game. I'd just do my best to avoid the content ingame.

I suppose there's nothing wrong with you guys trying to sway Bioware into giving players the option to make maleshep have the hots for another dude... I just hope you don't actually succeed.

Anyways, more power to ya'. In the end we're all just fans here and every fan should have the right to voice there opinions and preferances.

Modifié par lewis1306, 10 mars 2010 - 09:08 .