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[Temper_Graniteskul]

JediMB wrote...

Well, the LI's role could perhaps change depending on Shepard's past? A soldier if Shepard was a War Hero, a field medic (or some such) if Shepard was a Sole Survivor, and... for Ruthless... I dunno.

A ship's counsellor, maybe? Oh, Kelly, you could be so much more than the redhead who tells me I have no new messages...

[Fade9wayz]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

Yeah, I thought about that as soon as I'd posted. But I figured, he could get better...

He probably can. Jack too.    Ohh, I still have some positive attitude left in me...

[Fade9wayz]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

JediMB wrote...

Well, the LI's role could perhaps change depending on Shepard's past? A soldier if Shepard was a War Hero, a field medic (or some such) if Shepard was a Sole Survivor, and... for Ruthless... I dunno.

A ship's counsellor, maybe? Oh, Kelly, you could be so much more than the redhead who tells me I have no new messages...

Agreed. That'd be that or some ganger... Ooooh, or maybe a past victim? Now that would make things interesting

[Lightice_av]

A ship's counsellor, maybe? Oh, Kelly, you could be so much more than the redhead who tells me I have no new messages...

Amen. I really hope that Kelly gets a bit more character by ME3, if she's coming along that far.

[Charsen]

Actually, Donnelly or whoever in engineering would be a good male fling imo. But I couldn't tell if the lady in engineering was his sister or his wife or a friend or what. Her fluctuating and bizarre accent threw me for a loop.

[Lightice_av]

But I couldn't tell if the lady in engineering was his sister or his wife or a friend or what.

They seem to be just colleagues and friends.He sometimes playfully flirts with her, and she responds with mock indignation. Ofcourse you could interpret the part where he claims to feel at risk for being surrounded by females in some other way, if you wish...

[Arik7]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

JediMB wrote...

Well, the LI's role could perhaps change depending on Shepard's past? A soldier if Shepard was a War Hero, a field medic (or some such) if Shepard was a Sole Survivor, and... for Ruthless... I dunno.

A ship's counsellor, maybe? Oh, Kelly, you could be so much more than the redhead who tells me I have no new messages...

A ship's counsellor in a cat suit, capable of reading other people's minds please....

[Tom Adama]

Pannamaslo wrote...

Tom Adama wrote...

Pannamaslo wrote...

Tom Adama wrote...


This is why PSYCHOLOGY is seperate from NEUROSCIENCE. Psych studies minds, neuro studies brains.

As a neuropsychologist I have to disagree...

Mind, and by "mind" I mean cognitive processes and higher emotions  =/= whole brain. But mind = certain brain functions. These functions differ from human to human, becasue every one of us has their own unique set of connections (which what I believe is what you're trying to say, by "no one knows your emotions") that were formed during learning (but are also heavily inlfuenced by genetic make up, fetal developement etc...)

We have more and more knowledge considering how brain influances higher cognitive functions. The future of psychology lies in neurosicence IMO.

EDIT: About homosexulaity - the most popular theory states that homosexula male fetuses are exposed to maternal hormones differently, which alters sexuality developement.  One of the proofs is that male homosexulas' pattern of  reaction when injected with estrogen is closer to female reaction than male one. Homosexuality is not learnd, is not induced by a society, most probably it is inborn and not necessarily heritable. There are differences in the brain with people with different orientaion (it is a case of male participants, IDK about lesbians).

I hope it is clear, I am not a native speaker, so it may cause problems, especially in topics where specifity is recquired:whistle:

No I am not saying differences in connections per se. I am saying the qualities of the experiencer (the mind) is inconsistent with the qualities of the brain. How can you state that the mind and brain are reducible to physical states? All the brain does is fire in binary, where is the MEANING in that pattern? When I touch a table, neurochemicals sent by my Pacinian Corpuscles do 1 of 2 things; excite a neuron to depolarize or inhibit a neuron to hyperpolarize. It's not like the physical process measurable by science (depolarization/hyperpolarization) can be equated by the subjective EXPERIENCE of touch.

Yes I agree that the brain is NECESSARY for the expression of minds, but they are not reducible to them.

And with regards to the fetal exposure of hormones leading to homosexuality. There are NO neurological correlates that are tell-tale signs of sexual orientation. Gay men have EXACTLY the same levels of testosterone and estrogen as straight males, the issue of debate is exposure of specific hormones in-utero. But here is the dilemma, hormones we know affect physical development of cells in the body, yet we see no differences in brains for homosexuals vs. straight men. What is being affected in the brain to cause homosexuality if no physiological differences are evident?

Homosexuals do NOT have homosexual children, that is a fact. It is not genetic. So sexuality is one of 2 things; learned or products of mis-timed hormonal exposure in-utero. If it is the latter, what is being altered? Cuz it isn't neurological in nature. Sexuality is very up in the air right now in neuropsych and neuroscience.

Here is the big counter proof to in-utero hormonal exposure; monozygotic twins where 1 is gay and the other is straight... how do you explain that?

Wrong...

Nope. Not what research indicates.

www.pnas.org/content/89/15/7199.full.pdf

www.springerlink.com/content/l20386114j163331/

www.springerlink.com/content/g1176x7289822289/

www.sciencedirect.com/science

And these are older studies...So sorry, but no, homosexulaity is not learned. It is connected with hormones during fetal developement and there are differences in some parts of a brain both in animal models and humans.

Mind is one of the functions of the brain, you can't deny it. It is clearly visible, when you look at a case sduties of various neurological deficits and traumas.

Back on ME topic

I was really surprised with lack of same sex romances in ME 2. I was betting it would be Thane. His romance is more spiritual and based on feelings, and I would totally see him attracted to manShep.

Garrus not so much. Maybe the opinion of pimp and ladies man.I don't know, just the feeling.

Kaidan - totally.

Jacob -if the romance would be done the same way as for femSheps: noooooooooooooooooo THE PRIIIIZE
But what I would like the most is the new characer that is exclusively homosexual - making bi just seems cheap unless it's done within character.

To clear things up: I am a straight female but I would be interested in m/m option or f/f option. Good story is a good story and same -sex romances would enrich game experience. It's adding variety.

Sorry man, but monozygotic twin studies on this isse are a BIG trump on hormonal exposure and sexuality (I used to believe it was genetic). How about this alternative causal factor, when one learns to ride a bike, the neurological correlates in the cerebellum are different than those of a individual who does not know how to bike ride. Which came first... the learned behaviour then the neurophysiological changes OR the neurophysiological changes then the expressed behaviour?

I WILL, however, admit that behaviour is a product of biological AND psychological processes, but I refuse to believe that something as malleable as sexuality is NOT learned on some level. If you are right, then what accounts for PEDOPHILLIA? Necrophilia? Fecophilia? Does the brain get exposed to some off-putting hormone in utero to yield an individual who is sexually aroused by dead people? Or inanimate objects?

Cmon man... consider the alternatives. Sexuality is a product of experience and biology, the TARGETS of sexuality, I believe, are learned through experience.

[Lightice_av]

Tom, your discussion is off topic. It does not concern Mass Effect. If you consider it important, handle it through PMs, if you please. This thread is no place for them.

[Tom Adama]

By the way I am NOT argueing against homosexuality in any way, I am just making the point that ALL sexuality seems to be a psychological product with biological roots. Targets of arousal are, I believe, entirely learned. Im not making a claim that homosexuals have a choice to NOT be gay, just that they are products of their experiences much like pedophilias and necrophiliacs are.



I am sorry if I came off that way...

[Tom Adama]

Lightice_av wrote...

Tom, your discussion is off topic. It does not concern Mass Effect. If you consider it important, handle it through PMs, if you please. This thread is no place for them.

Sorry, I will refrain from further off topic meandering.

[FataliTensei]

Tom Adama wrote...

Pannamaslo wrote...

Tom Adama wrote...

Pannamaslo wrote...

Tom Adama wrote...


This is why PSYCHOLOGY is seperate from NEUROSCIENCE. Psych studies minds, neuro studies brains.

As a neuropsychologist I have to disagree...

Mind, and by "mind" I mean cognitive processes and higher emotions  =/= whole brain. But mind = certain brain functions. These functions differ from human to human, becasue every one of us has their own unique set of connections (which what I believe is what you're trying to say, by "no one knows your emotions") that were formed during learning (but are also heavily inlfuenced by genetic make up, fetal developement etc...)

We have more and more knowledge considering how brain influances higher cognitive functions. The future of psychology lies in neurosicence IMO.

EDIT: About homosexulaity - the most popular theory states that homosexula male fetuses are exposed to maternal hormones differently, which alters sexuality developement.  One of the proofs is that male homosexulas' pattern of  reaction when injected with estrogen is closer to female reaction than male one. Homosexuality is not learnd, is not induced by a society, most probably it is inborn and not necessarily heritable. There are differences in the brain with people with different orientaion (it is a case of male participants, IDK about lesbians).

I hope it is clear, I am not a native speaker, so it may cause problems, especially in topics where specifity is recquired:whistle:

No I am not saying differences in connections per se. I am saying the qualities of the experiencer (the mind) is inconsistent with the qualities of the brain. How can you state that the mind and brain are reducible to physical states? All the brain does is fire in binary, where is the MEANING in that pattern? When I touch a table, neurochemicals sent by my Pacinian Corpuscles do 1 of 2 things; excite a neuron to depolarize or inhibit a neuron to hyperpolarize. It's not like the physical process measurable by science (depolarization/hyperpolarization) can be equated by the subjective EXPERIENCE of touch.

Yes I agree that the brain is NECESSARY for the expression of minds, but they are not reducible to them.

And with regards to the fetal exposure of hormones leading to homosexuality. There are NO neurological correlates that are tell-tale signs of sexual orientation. Gay men have EXACTLY the same levels of testosterone and estrogen as straight males, the issue of debate is exposure of specific hormones in-utero. But here is the dilemma, hormones we know affect physical development of cells in the body, yet we see no differences in brains for homosexuals vs. straight men. What is being affected in the brain to cause homosexuality if no physiological differences are evident?

Homosexuals do NOT have homosexual children, that is a fact. It is not genetic. So sexuality is one of 2 things; learned or products of mis-timed hormonal exposure in-utero. If it is the latter, what is being altered? Cuz it isn't neurological in nature. Sexuality is very up in the air right now in neuropsych and neuroscience.

Here is the big counter proof to in-utero hormonal exposure; monozygotic twins where 1 is gay and the other is straight... how do you explain that?

Wrong...

Nope. Not what research indicates.

www.pnas.org/content/89/15/7199.full.pdf

www.springerlink.com/content/l20386114j163331/

www.springerlink.com/content/g1176x7289822289/

www.sciencedirect.com/science

And these are older studies...So sorry, but no, homosexulaity is not learned. It is connected with hormones during fetal developement and there are differences in some parts of a brain both in animal models and humans.

Mind is one of the functions of the brain, you can't deny it. It is clearly visible, when you look at a case sduties of various neurological deficits and traumas.

Back on ME topic

I was really surprised with lack of same sex romances in ME 2. I was betting it would be Thane. His romance is more spiritual and based on feelings, and I would totally see him attracted to manShep.

Garrus not so much. Maybe the opinion of pimp and ladies man.I don't know, just the feeling.

Kaidan - totally.

Jacob -if the romance would be done the same way as for femSheps: noooooooooooooooooo THE PRIIIIZE
But what I would like the most is the new characer that is exclusively homosexual - making bi just seems cheap unless it's done within character.

To clear things up: I am a straight female but I would be interested in m/m option or f/f option. Good story is a good story and same -sex romances would enrich game experience. It's adding variety.

Sorry man, but monozygotic twin studies on this isse are a BIG trump on hormonal exposure and sexuality (I used to believe it was genetic). How about this alternative causal factor, when one learns to ride a bike, the neurological correlates in the cerebellum are different than those of a individual who does not know how to bike ride. Which came first... the learned behaviour then the neurophysiological changes OR the neurophysiological changes then the expressed behaviour?

I WILL, however, admit that behaviour is a product of biological AND psychological processes, but I refuse to believe that something as malleable as sexuality is NOT learned on some level. If you are right, then what accounts for PEDOPHILLIA? Necrophilia? Fecophilia? Does the brain get exposed to some off-putting hormone in utero to yield an individual who is sexually aroused by dead people? Or inanimate objects?

Cmon man... consider the alternatives. Sexuality is a product of experience and biology, the TARGETS of sexuality, I believe, are learned through experience.

Keep it to Mass Effect

[SirGladiator]

I agree that Kelly should have a bigger role in ME3, she is quite cool and full of potential to be a real LI. Especially given how relatively little interaction we get with our teammates on away missions anyway, theres really no reason why Kelly couldnt be a totally viable option for Shep to end up with in ME3.



Another character Id like to see as an LI would be EDI. Im thinking about the TV show Andromeda and how awesome that robot-computer-girl was, and Im thinking EDI could be similar to that. It would also have the added advantage of letting our pal Mr Hudson say that it isnt really a same-sex romance, since she's technicly a robot, and of course everyone in their right mind will know better, just like when he says that about Liara . They could even give us the option to customize her appearance to some degree, that would be really cool. Maybe like, give us the choice between a few different faces and hair colors, something like that. No doubt EDI would love to finally have the freedom to roam the ship like a regular person, and we could go on missions or shopping sprees (maybe a bit of both) to upgrade her and make her the most powerful member of the team! And earn her undying love in the process . Also, if Shep ends up picking someone other than EDI, then maybe she and Joker could get together at the very end, that would be pretty funny and cool. So yes, give me more Kelly, and more EDI, in ME3!

[SimonTheFrog]

I'm sure EDI would betray you with legion... she got all fuzzy the first time he... joined her...already



But i agree there's some comical potential with EDI running around in a mech body.



I don't quite understand the fascination with Kelly. She's just unconditionally friendly, that's all.



The two engineers are awesome, i always run down there to see if they have something new to say I think they are not a couple. Just buddies.

[The Uncanny]

Ryzaki wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...


I have to agree with the person who was against introducing an m/m LI that was an assassin. Can barely set foot in any universe without tripping over them, it seems, but I think I've reached my limit.

LOL @ the bolded. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Still an assassin is better than jack squat. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

How about the f/f options?

Leliana - sneaky assassin type.

Silk Fox - sneaky assassin type.

Juhani - okay, she's a jedi. But she is a bag full of crazy when you meet her. And sneaky! (Well, she's hiding in a hidden grove. That's pretty sneaky...)

And then we have Liara. She seems relatively normal (if a trifle dull). But what does she seem to be turning into when you meet up with her during ME2? Yes! A sneaky assassin type!

Edited to correct the absent minded hash I made of my quoting.

Modifié par The Uncanny, 11 mars 2010 - 02:07 .

[Charsen]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

The two engineers are awesome, i always run down there to see if they have something new to say I think they are not a couple. Just buddies.

At first, honestly, I thought they were brother and sister. Her responses are very sisterly (eye-rolling "what a dork" sort of response) when he talks about Tali.

[Ryzaki]

The Uncanny wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...


I have to agree with the person who was against introducing an m/m LI that was an assassin. Can barely set foot in any universe without tripping over them, it seems, but I think I've reached my limit.

LOL @ the bolded. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Still an assassin is better than jack squat. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

How about the f/f options?

Leliana - sneaky assassin type.

Silk Fox - sneaky assassin type.

Juhani - okay, she's a jedi. But she is a bag full of crazy when you meet her. And sneaky! (Well, she's hiding in a hidden grove. That's pretty sneaky...)

And then we have Liara. She seems relatively normal (if a trifle dull). But what does she seem to be turning into when you meet up with her during ME2? Yes! A sneaky assassin type!

Edited to correct the absent minded hash I made of my quoting.

Well I'm not sure if that's intentional on BioWare's part. They do overuse character archetypes after all!

[The Uncanny]

Ryzaki wrote...



Well I'm not sure if that's intentional on BioWare's part. They do overuse character archetypes after all!

That is a very fair point.

However, one gets the feeling that with all this sneakiness the ultimate s/s LI would be invisible!

Which perhaps explains ME2? If only Shepard had some paint and a spray gun we might be able to run around the Normandy and find them!

[tyddrwsau]

SirGladiator wrote...

Another character Id like to see as an LI would be EDI. --- 8< --- No doubt EDI would love to finally have the freedom to roam the ship like a regular person,  --- 8< ---

This, as opposed to EDI being simultaneously aware of the entire ship interior and exterior all at once? I like EDI (and I liked Andromeda) but I think it's better off developed as its own unique thing. Personally, I'd be happy to get to know it, but romancing the ship's computer seems a bit odd. I sincerely hope there aren't Cerberus booby traps in its programming.

I know a lot of folks would welcome a Joker romance too, but I think he's a self-centred egotistical jerk. He's got some distinctly witty lines written for him, delivered well by Seth Green, but it's always "I'm the best" or "what I want is what matters" and "I'm cleverer than you!" with him. (Seriously, Shepard dies saving his butt and the next thing he does is defect from the Alliance to join a human supremacist terrorist group just so that he can get back to flying ships sooner? As if "I wanna flyyyyyy" is more important than "their ethics are questionable at best.") I've known a lot of people like that. We don't hang out.  No doubt the writers could do a good job of fleshing him out further if they chose, writing a caring and romantic side hidden underneath the overcompensation complex related to his disability, but I'd still be put off by the affect.

For me, it would be a tremendous irony if the ME team finally implements a same-sex romance with only Joker as the m/m option. Finally! the option to romance another man, and he's one of those guys who never really listens to a word you say. That's why I'm more of a Kaidan fan (thoughtful, empathetic, caring guy who also sticks up for what he thinks is right). Whoever the m/m option proves to he, he shoudl have a far more complex and likeable personality.

[Ryzaki]

The Uncanny wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...



Well I'm not sure if that's intentional on BioWare's part. They do overuse character archetypes after all!

That is a very fair point.

However, one gets the feeling that with all this sneakiness the ultimate s/s LI would be invisible!

Which perhaps explains ME2? If only Shepard had some paint and a spray gun we might be able to run around the Normandy and find them!

  Maybe they've been watching poor Shep the whole time! That sneaky sneaky invisible LI!

[The Uncanny]

Ryzaki wrote...

  Maybe they've been watching poor Shep the whole time! That sneaky sneaky invisible LI!

Ah! That would explain the heavy breathing I can hear when I'm trying on outfits in my cabin!

The sneaky invisible LI is... a voyeur! I'm... I'm ever so slightly turned on.

[SimonTheFrog]

There's a glitch video on youtube somewhere that shows that you can hide behind the walls at the Normandy and spy on people...

[Lightice_av]

I would love it if they made a Dr. Chakwas young assistant...lol. So it could be a male or a female, depending on your preference.

I'm not sure if a character so explicitly made solely for the purpose of a love-interest that even their gender is made variable depending on your choices could be a satisfactory or interesting character in their own right. Seeing how even Kelly turned out, it could easily reduce them into mindless fanservice.