7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Heavensrun]

tmelange wrote...

I really do find it to be...strange that this issue has such a large component of pandering to discrimination in trying to figure out a way to appease those people who will "allow" there to be m/m as long as they never have to be confronted with it. I wouldn't want m/m in game if it had to be handled like it was some sort of inferior, secret option. After all, in real life you are faced with lots of situations that you may not be comfortable with: a person you think is ugly might decide to hit on you; your boss might make inappropriate advances; someone who smokes or hates dogs might decide you are the love of their life. You deal with it. It's not something you're entitled to not ever have to face. (It could be argued that the only way to overcome prejudices and irrational fears is to face them head on.)

I wish there was an option to discuss this topic (not to make demands on Bioware; they will do whatever they want) from a different perspective. Not "let's find a suitably debasing way that we can all get along." There is a line that should be drawn, not because of a disinclination to compromise, but because the core issue is not something that should be compromised. A hard line is taken in the case of discrimination (race, religion, e.g, how the ADL operates or the NAACP) because it's too easy to implement a "solution" that makes the situation worse (e.g. separate but equal).

Again, BW is going to take whatever stance with regard to male Shep as suits their bottom line. I would never argue that they are required to cater to my particular interest. However, the discussion of that interest is legitimate, as are all the parameters surrounding that interest, and if BW were to ever take a look, it might decide it worth its while to accommodate. But the discussion of ways in which to appease the phobic masses, and systems that can be implemented to make sure no uninterested party is tainted by some metaphysical gay cooties, seem to me to be counterproductive to the greater issue. Surely, BW didn't choose not to implement m/m because they couldn't figure out a way to hide it. If they choose to go in that direction again, they should do so proudly, and likely will, as they did in DA:O.

Anyway, I just think parts of this discussion should be somewhat redirected. :shrug:

This person is my hero.  He has summarized what was bothering me about the OP that I couldn't quite filter out of the things I agreed with.

[Goat_Shepard]

cutthecameras wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

You know you have to share Tali with thousands of other male Shepards, right?   This isn't a problem?

sigh...I give up. I'll be on here all night if I continue.

I don't think any of us can relate because our only option so far has been to "share" our LI's with straight gamers like yourself and I must admit, it hasn't cheapened my game. An exclusively lesbian character would be awesome but ultimately unnessesary. However if they did implement someone like that and then came out with DLC to make her bi I would be a little bit bothered, but only because this would be the first case of an openly gay character being made bi to appease straight players in the form of DLC. "Okay guys, have at her!" would come to mind.

I can relate to THIS, though. Thank you. I couldn't quite grasp the concept you were referring to. I'm gunna play some ME2 now and let the powers that be make up their own minds.

[FlyinElk212]

mothbanquet wrote...

The thread was my support one hundred percent.

I am 25, male and straight.  If a ******/bisexual option for LIs was implemented i wouldn't necessarily take it myself, because it does not really relate to me.  Does that mean that the option shouldn't be available?  I really don't see why not because, as I said, I'm not going to take it so why should I care? 

Just because cigarettes are on sale it doesn't mean I have to buy them, nor should I care that other people smoke them.  Everyone complaining about having homosexuality forced upon them have no possible basis for that argument.  the only way that would be true would be if they decided to make Shepard EXCLUSIVELY gay, and that's not the point people here are trying to make.

I will say this: for me the LIs in ME were just as important to the overall story as the main plot, perhaps even more so.  To enable as many people as possible to relate to this important aspect of the story it would only make sense to enable the CHOICE of same sex relationships.

In a game that is about nothing else if not choice, the omission is extremely glaring.

Well said, my friend. And kudos to the killer username!

[Ryzaki]

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Octorox wrote...
You can't download them "out of nowhere" there is always a lore explanation. Zaeed was recruited by TIM. If they created DLC that made Tali bi I would demand an in-game lore explanation to be satisfied.

How about the fact that she's attracted to FemShep? You make it sound like Tali's personality, ideals and everything else would need to be changed to accomadate this. Or that this would happen post game or something.

What's the lore explanation for the weapons, the guns and armor? Is there one? Or better yet the unremovable helms and the fact that everyone can recongnize you wearing them? 

No, but sexual orientation is biological. It's not a preference, Tali can't "change her mind" about not being physically attracted to women. If they do go the DLC Route is should be more than just unlocking the same romance scenes for female Sheps. She ought to say something about repressing her sexuality because Quarian's look down upon same-sex relationships but she's ready now or something along those lines. he should also say something to Male Sheps about it, because that might change their opinion about romancing the character (it wouldn't change mine, but it might change some people's)

And we're not going to agree on this. So yeah. I'll let someone else debate this because A) why would she even MENTION it to a M!Shep because F!Shep wouldn't exist to get her thinking about it and Yeah I don't agree at all.

Sexual orientation isn't just: Bi, straight, gay. Either. One can be mostly heterosexual yet find a person of their own gender attractive and sexually appealing. The world doesn't blow up because that happened. They also don't necessarily turn Bi. Tali being attracted to F!Shep =/= Tali being attracted to women in general.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 février 2010 - 05:40 .

[DukeOfNukes]

TommyServo wrote...

Please stay on topic, folks. This thread is about Mass Effect, not Heavy Rain.

I think he's saying that...he's mad there were no same sex romances in Heavy Rain either!?!?!?! I mean...Ethan couldn't hook up with Normon...OMG HOMOPHOBIC. Or Scott! descrimination against fat people too?!?!?!
 And what's up with the fact that while there are 3 men...a Private Eye, an FBI Agent, and an Architect...there was only one woman, who was considerably less successful. SEXIST! I mean...seriously...haven't women been through enough? When will they break through the glass ceiling, and show that they, too, can investigate serial killers?

This whole thing, too me, is a bit too much. Maybe you, specifically, never said anything about BioWare being homophobic...but the thought is presented on a fairly regular basis. They chose not to include any same sex romances...though they have done so in the past. I really can't see why it offends people so much.

[Octorox]

cutthecameras wrote...

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...


Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

Good then someone making an exact duplicate of your cake and redesigning it and giving it to someone else won't bother you then right ? Because that is pretty much what a FemShepTali romance DLC is.

Spliting the cake is a bad analogy seeing as you're not actually losing anything. You choose if you want to eat the new cake or not if its DLC. No one will force it on you.

But the Mass Effect universe isn't your's or anyone's, it's Bioware's. Shepard, however, is yours, as Shepard you can do everything in your power through your charm and awesomeness to make Tali in love with you. As Shepard you cannot magically download something that will change her orientation.

To be clear I SUPPORT same-sex marriage in Mas Effect. However, I do not think it should be added to any of the existing characters. I would rather see a new ME3 or DLC character created.

Uh. Yes you can. Its a video game. If I can magically download additional characters out of nowhere I can change Tali's orientation. Tis optional. No one will hold a gun to anyone's head and make them download the game.

You can't download them "out of nowhere" there is always a lore explanation. Zaeed was recruited by TIM. If they created DLC that made Tali bi I would demand an in-game lore explanation to be satisfied. If Tali's bi, she's bi in all iterations of the ME universe, as Commander Shepard and his/her actions and choices is the only malleable aspect of the Lore. This isn't the Sims, you aren't given god powers.

I'm very confused as to why BI inevitably gets tossed around in all this, as if it matters.

As I said before. To make Tali bi is to acknowledge that she finds women and men attractive. It would be unnessesary to do so in a playthrough where she is romanced by a male shepard or a female shepard. I don't think it's a given that someone who falls in love with someone of their own sex is essentially bi or gay.

In real life do such labels really matter if you love the person enough?

No, they shouldn't. But for some people they invariably do. Many Shepards are downright racist towards aliens, and just generally ignorant, shortsighted, and cruel. Some may be homophobic and be fundamentally against romancing a bisexual character. Liara you knew going in.

[didymos1120]

Octorox wrote...

At least for me personally, It's not that, it's just that I'd like to know going in. I pursued the Liara relationship in ME1 knowing she (and her entire race) was bi. It just seems like an odd thing to keep from your lover...that's why a wouldn't like Tali relationship DLC.

Then don't download it.  That way "your" Tali remains as straight as a laser beam in a perfectly flat space-time continuum.  Yay!   Besides, think please, for a moment, about how these romances are implemented in ME: the LI only ever expresses attraction for Shepard.  Tali in a MaleShep game simply wouldn't even mention she was also into chicks.  She'd forever and only be interested in great, manly space-hero Shepard.  Liara is the one exception because that's in the nature of the Asari, and she still only speaks of it in a purely hypothetical manner.  She herself only has big, blue eyes for Shep, whatever gender Shep happens to be in that playthrough.

[FKA_Servo]

Heavensrun wrote...

tmelange wrote...

I really do find it to be...strange that this issue has such a large component of pandering to discrimination in trying to figure out a way to appease those people who will "allow" there to be m/m as long as they never have to be confronted with it. I wouldn't want m/m in game if it had to be handled like it was some sort of inferior, secret option. After all, in real life you are faced with lots of situations that you may not be comfortable with: a person you think is ugly might decide to hit on you; your boss might make inappropriate advances; someone who smokes or hates dogs might decide you are the love of their life. You deal with it. It's not something you're entitled to not ever have to face. (It could be argued that the only way to overcome prejudices and irrational fears is to face them head on.)

I wish there was an option to discuss this topic (not to make demands on Bioware; they will do whatever they want) from a different perspective. Not "let's find a suitably debasing way that we can all get along." There is a line that should be drawn, not because of a disinclination to compromise, but because the core issue is not something that should be compromised. A hard line is taken in the case of discrimination (race, religion, e.g, how the ADL operates or the NAACP) because it's too easy to implement a "solution" that makes the situation worse (e.g. separate but equal).

Again, BW is going to take whatever stance with regard to male Shep as suits their bottom line. I would never argue that they are required to cater to my particular interest. However, the discussion of that interest is legitimate, as are all the parameters surrounding that interest, and if BW were to ever take a look, it might decide it worth its while to accommodate. But the discussion of ways in which to appease the phobic masses, and systems that can be implemented to make sure no uninterested party is tainted by some metaphysical gay cooties, seem to me to be counterproductive to the greater issue. Surely, BW didn't choose not to implement m/m because they couldn't figure out a way to hide it. If they choose to go in that direction again, they should do so proudly, and likely will, as they did in DA:O.

Anyway, I just think parts of this discussion should be somewhat redirected. :shrug:

This person is my hero.  He has summarized what was bothering me about the OP that I couldn't quite filter out of the things I agreed with.

I can see where you're coming from. 

With regards to a discussion option where you're not "making demands of Bioware" - please, join the group if you're interested.  We talk amongst ourselves, and our forum is a good place.

[mothbanquet]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

mothbanquet wrote...

The thread was my support one hundred percent.

I am 25, male and straight.  If a ******/bisexual option for LIs was implemented i wouldn't necessarily take it myself, because it does not really relate to me.  Does that mean that the option shouldn't be available?  I really don't see why not because, as I said, I'm not going to take it so why should I care? 

Just because cigarettes are on sale it doesn't mean I have to buy them, nor should I care that other people smoke them.  Everyone complaining about having homosexuality forced upon them have no possible basis for that argument.  the only way that would be true would be if they decided to make Shepard EXCLUSIVELY gay, and that's not the point people here are trying to make.

I will say this: for me the LIs in ME were just as important to the overall story as the main plot, perhaps even more so.  To enable as many people as possible to relate to this important aspect of the story it would only make sense to enable the CHOICE of same sex relationships.

In a game that is about nothing else if not choice, the omission is extremely glaring.

Well said, my friend. And kudos to the killer username!

Cheers mate

And a piece of cheese to anyone who gets the reference...

[comicfan22]

DukeofNukes, this is a topic about the Mass Effect series not Heavy Rain, we aren't compairing games made by other companies here.

[didymos1120]

Ryzaki wrote...
I meant the Asari dancers.

They kind of just dance and not...strip. Even though they're in a strip bar. If there's anything that made me laugh at the game it was those strippers. Now that was comical.

"ooh hot strippers...only...they don't strip." 

This always makes me laugh at network shows that have scenes in strip bars.   Magically, our heroes drop by when all the women just so happen to have started their act and haven't gotten around to undoing the bra yet.

[danman2424]

didymos1120 wrote...


No, more that you were being incoherent and contradictory.  At one point, you admonish someone for taking a game to seriously, and yet in practically the same breath, worry that gay dudes in space will cause a game to be treated without proper seriousness.

You're full of it and making up things to try and prove some point. I did not admonish anyone for taking a game too seriously. I said most people will not take the game as seriously as he would in respect to "I will not choose gay option because this character is me and I am so invested in him that I 'm afraid of choosing anything that contradicts what I'd do in real life."

Next time you want to respond, don't put words in my mouth.

[Yeled]

danman2424 wrote...
If they did have all of this extra time that you say they did, then I'm sure they would've spent it on even more female romances for male Shepard and male ones for female Shepard rather than spend it on what you would've wanted them to.

You mean like they did with Dragon Age and Jade Empire?  I'm not quite sure the evidence is on your side on this one.

[Octorox]

didymos1120 wrote...

Octorox wrote...

At least for me personally, It's not that, it's just that I'd like to know going in. I pursued the Liara relationship in ME1 knowing she (and her entire race) was bi. It just seems like an odd thing to keep from your lover...that's why a wouldn't like Tali relationship DLC.

Then don't download it.  That way "your" Tali remains as straight as a laser beam in a perfectly flat space-time continuum.  Yay!   Besides, think please, for a moment, about how these romances are implemented in ME: the LI only ever expresses attraction for Shepard.  Tali in a MaleShep game simply wouldn't even mention she was also into chicks.  She'd forever and only be interested in great, manly space-hero Shepard.  Liara is the one exception because that's in the nature of the Asari, and she still only speaks of it in a purely hypothetical manner.  She herself only has big, blue eyes for Shep, whatever gender Shep happens to be in that playthrough.

That ruins the illusion of the ME world for me though. I'd like to think that all the characters are dynamic individuals, and exist independently of my character

[cutthecameras]

Heavensrun wrote...

tmelange wrote...

I really do find it to be...strange that this issue has such a large component of pandering to discrimination in trying to figure out a way to appease those people who will "allow" there to be m/m as long as they never have to be confronted with it. I wouldn't want m/m in game if it had to be handled like it was some sort of inferior, secret option. After all, in real life you are faced with lots of situations that you may not be comfortable with: a person you think is ugly might decide to hit on you; your boss might make inappropriate advances; someone who smokes or hates dogs might decide you are the love of their life. You deal with it. It's not something you're entitled to not ever have to face. (It could be argued that the only way to overcome prejudices and irrational fears is to face them head on.)

I wish there was an option to discuss this topic (not to make demands on Bioware; they will do whatever they want) from a different perspective. Not "let's find a suitably debasing way that we can all get along." There is a line that should be drawn, not because of a disinclination to compromise, but because the core issue is not something that should be compromised. A hard line is taken in the case of discrimination (race, religion, e.g, how the ADL operates or the NAACP) because it's too easy to implement a "solution" that makes the situation worse (e.g. separate but equal).

Again, BW is going to take whatever stance with regard to male Shep as suits their bottom line. I would never argue that they are required to cater to my particular interest. However, the discussion of that interest is legitimate, as are all the parameters surrounding that interest, and if BW were to ever take a look, it might decide it worth its while to accommodate. But the discussion of ways in which to appease the phobic masses, and systems that can be implemented to make sure no uninterested party is tainted by some metaphysical gay cooties, seem to me to be counterproductive to the greater issue. Surely, BW didn't choose not to implement m/m because they couldn't figure out a way to hide it. If they choose to go in that direction again, they should do so proudly, and likely will, as they did in DA:O.

Anyway, I just think parts of this discussion should be somewhat redirected. :shrug:

This person is my hero.  He has summarized what was bothering me about the OP that I couldn't quite filter out of the things I agreed with.

I agree with tmelange. Colored font or another glaring "HEY YOURE ABOUT TO GO GAY!" option is totally hypocritical because it dismisses the fact that a gay player can end up "going straight" accidentally as well. This option fascilitates the idea that it's okay, or normal, for people to want straight romances but that they must be implicitly forewarned about the possibility of starting a gay romance option accidentally. I don't think gay LIs should be decorated with rainbow flags to signal them out. In real life you can't tell what someone's orientation is and this should also be true of ME LIs. If you don't like something your Shepard says, reload.

Simple enough.

Modifié par cutthecameras, 26 février 2010 - 05:47 .

[mothbanquet]

TommyServo wrote...

Heavensrun wrote...

*Snip*

This person is my hero.  He has summarized what was bothering me about the OP that I couldn't quite filter out of the things I agreed with.

I can see where you're coming from. 

With regards to a discussion option where you're not "making demands of Bioware" - please, join the group if you're interested.  We talk amongst ourselves, and our forum is a good place.

Well all I'll say on that subject is remember George Lucas.  Even the most talentd creative minds can fall from grace with such force that they may never recover...

Of course I don't think things are that bad.  Yet...

[Ryzaki]

didymos1120 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I meant the Asari dancers.

They kind of just dance and not...strip. Even though they're in a strip bar. If there's anything that made me laugh at the game it was those strippers. Now that was comical.

"ooh hot strippers...only...they don't strip." 

This always makes me laugh at network shows that have scenes in strip bars.   Magically, our heroes drop by when all the women just so happen to have started their act and haven't gotten around to undoing the bra yet.

So silly. I always wish they didn't have the strip bar scenes because they're so jarring I end up laughing my head off. I'm pretty sure that wasn't what BioWare intended.


Uh. Guys: Colored font is for all romances gay or straight.

Seriously that's a good thing.

A very good thing.

I really don't want to listen to F!Shep wanting to rape Jacob again.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 février 2010 - 05:47 .

[cutthecameras]

Octorox wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...


Correction. I'm the kid who DOESN'T want to SPLIT his piece of cake with anyone else. Find yourself your own brand new piece of cake, let me enjoy mine.
Disclaimer: Knows the difference between fantasy and reality, enjoys real life cake as well.

Good then someone making an exact duplicate of your cake and redesigning it and giving it to someone else won't bother you then right ? Because that is pretty much what a FemShepTali romance DLC is.

Spliting the cake is a bad analogy seeing as you're not actually losing anything. You choose if you want to eat the new cake or not if its DLC. No one will force it on you.

But the Mass Effect universe isn't your's or anyone's, it's Bioware's. Shepard, however, is yours, as Shepard you can do everything in your power through your charm and awesomeness to make Tali in love with you. As Shepard you cannot magically download something that will change her orientation.

To be clear I SUPPORT same-sex marriage in Mas Effect. However, I do not think it should be added to any of the existing characters. I would rather see a new ME3 or DLC character created.

Uh. Yes you can. Its a video game. If I can magically download additional characters out of nowhere I can change Tali's orientation. Tis optional. No one will hold a gun to anyone's head and make them download the game.

You can't download them "out of nowhere" there is always a lore explanation. Zaeed was recruited by TIM. If they created DLC that made Tali bi I would demand an in-game lore explanation to be satisfied. If Tali's bi, she's bi in all iterations of the ME universe, as Commander Shepard and his/her actions and choices is the only malleable aspect of the Lore. This isn't the Sims, you aren't given god powers.

I'm very confused as to why BI inevitably gets tossed around in all this, as if it matters.

As I said before. To make Tali bi is to acknowledge that she finds women and men attractive. It would be unnessesary to do so in a playthrough where she is romanced by a male shepard or a female shepard. I don't think it's a given that someone who falls in love with someone of their own sex is essentially bi or gay.

In real life do such labels really matter if you love the person enough?

No, they shouldn't. But for some people they invariably do. Many Shepards are downright racist towards aliens, and just generally ignorant, shortsighted, and cruel. Some may be homophobic and be fundamentally against romancing a bisexual character. Liara you knew going in.

And just because some people are the way they are, should we limit options that can provide a richer experience to the diverse, growing fanbase of Bioware's games?

[mothbanquet]

didymos1120 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I meant the Asari dancers.

They kind of just dance and not...strip. Even though they're in a strip bar. If there's anything that made me laugh at the game it was those strippers. Now that was comical.

"ooh hot strippers...only...they don't strip." 

This always makes me laugh at network shows that have scenes in strip bars.   Magically, our heroes drop by when all the women just so happen to have started their act and haven't gotten around to undoing the bra yet.

Asari dancers...now there's someting we can ALL enjoy

[DukeOfNukes]

comicfan22 wrote...

DukeofNukes, this is a topic about the Mass Effect series not Heavy Rain, we aren't compairing games made by other companies here.

You seem to be missing my point. The point was that you can find controversy ANYWHERE if you look hard enough...and I'm sorry, but that's all this thread/line of discussion is attempting to do. If you want a same sex romance that bad...try Dragon Age, or Jade Empire. Or even in Left 4 Dead...don't tell me Bill and Francis weren't hooking up.

True romance in video games is rare enough...but now you gotta complain because a well written, meaningful relationship isn't enough because there's no man on man or female on female action?

You might as well be complaining that you can't have a 3some, IMHO

[mothbanquet]

cutthecameras wrote...

Octorox wrote...

*Snip*

No, they shouldn't. But for some people they invariably do. Many Shepards are downright racist towards aliens, and just generally ignorant, shortsighted, and cruel. Some may be homophobic and be fundamentally against romancing a bisexual character. Liara you knew going in.

And just because some people are the way they are, should we limit options that can provide a richer experience to the diverse, growing fanbase of Bioware's games?

True, by including the SS option you ar including far more people than you are alienating.  And those who are so bothered about ti will get over it eventually when they see the review scores.

[didymos1120]

SirGladiator wrote...

Tali makes it quite clear that she is in love with Shepard, MaleShep and FemShep alike. The only difference is that FemShep players don't get to enjoy the full romance that MaleShep players do. Its rather comicly strange to suggest there would be something wrong with letting FemShep players simply play the romance the same way MaleShep players do. I agree with the vast majority of folks who would like that change made.

Yeah.  And there's that.  Effectively, they made Tali into a lesbian tease in a Femshep playthrough.  Oh, yeah, she'd link suits with you, you're the only one she's considered....BAM, BRICK WALL.  No Quarian for you! 

[danman2424]

Yeled wrote...

danman2424 wrote...
If they did have all of this extra time that you say they did, then I'm sure they would've spent it on even more female romances for male Shepard and male ones for female Shepard rather than spend it on what you would've wanted them to.

You mean like they did with Dragon Age and Jade Empire?  I'm not quite sure the evidence is on your side on this one.

Co-founder of Bioware has a quote in the OP about Dragon Age and Mass  Effect that you should probably read.

[tyddrwsau]

DukeOfNukes wrote...
This whole thing, too me, is a bit too much. Maybe you, specifically, never said anything about BioWare being homophobic...but the thought is presented on a fairly regular basis. They chose not to include any same sex romances...though they have done so in the past. I really can't see why it offends people so much.

It's easy to lose just about everything except the OP FAQ on page 1 in the flying page scroll of discussion, but I made a post on page 6 (citations and everything) about the whole corporate homophobia thing: such an accusation doesn't hold up. I think a lot of us posting here, in favor of same-sex romance in Mass Effect, are doing so not because we're "offended" but because we're advocating for more content we want in a game we really like.

[Octorox]

Ryzaki wrote...

Octorox wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Octorox wrote...
You can't download them "out of nowhere" there is always a lore explanation. Zaeed was recruited by TIM. If they created DLC that made Tali bi I would demand an in-game lore explanation to be satisfied.

How about the fact that she's attracted to FemShep? You make it sound like Tali's personality, ideals and everything else would need to be changed to accomadate this. Or that this would happen post game or something.

What's the lore explanation for the weapons, the guns and armor? Is there one? Or better yet the unremovable helms and the fact that everyone can recongnize you wearing them? 

No, but sexual orientation is biological. It's not a preference, Tali can't "change her mind" about not being physically attracted to women. If they do go the DLC Route is should be more than just unlocking the same romance scenes for female Sheps. She ought to say something about repressing her sexuality because Quarian's look down upon same-sex relationships but she's ready now or something along those lines. he should also say something to Male Sheps about it, because that might change their opinion about romancing the character (it wouldn't change mine, but it might change some people's)

And we're not going to agree on this. So yeah. I'll let someone else debate this because A) why would she even MENTION it to a M!Shep because F!Shep wouldn't exist to get her thinking about it and Yeah I don't agree at all.

Sexual orientation isn't just: Bi, straight, gay. Either. One can be mostly heterosexual yet find a person of their own gender attractive and sexually appealing. The world doesn't blow up because that happened. They also don't necessarily turn Bi. Tali being attracted to F!Shep =/= Tali being attracted to women in general.

Fine, that's perfectly reasonable. we'll agree to disagree. I see sexual orientation as a biological thing. I can't relate to being physically attracted to one and only one person of a given gender, but hey, whatever floats Tali's boat is fine by me, since I'm already sharing her with millions of players anyway...