7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Grilled Trout]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Not that I don't agree that the romance dialog options aren't always clear, but I'm curious. You always have the option to flat out refuse someone's advances in both ME1 and 2 as far as I've experienced. It's not like you joke around with a character and then suddenly find them forcing themselves upon you in your quarters. Even when the moment of truth comes, you can tell them to ****** off.

So my question is, is the concern that you might run the risk of even being flirted with by a same-sex character and that would just be too horrific to play through? As I recall from Dragon Age, Zevran was pretty open about his orientation, and as far as I know there weren't hordes of angry straight men breaking down Bioware's doors to get their money back. Ultimately, even if you "accidentally" flirt with a character of the same sex, there's always a way to get out of it.

The poster I quoted... Darkhour described how one's perception in refusing the romance gently resulted in the AI character assuming that you were still okay with it.  My personal experience also tells me that the AI characters initiate the interest in romance, before you even get a dialogue option to dictate whether or not you wanted to persue something romantic with that squad mate.  And what's funny to me is that this seems to apply only to male Shepard, whereas the female Shepard seems to be more in control of the situation by being given the initiative earlier than what male Shepard would have gotten.  I don't know if this was done intentionally, or if my impressions are flat out wrong, but that's how I see it so far.  But since I play as a male Shepard most of the time, it is still disturbing to realize that without some revamp in the dialogue system, the current way has the squadmates initiating the flirting and courting.  No offense to anyone, but I will be appalled by any male squadmate doing that to my male Shepard.

Sure, there is always a way to get out of it, but the point I am making is that I don't even want to get to that point.  Certainly not in a video game where I choose to play it to have fun in the comfort of my living room sofa.  That's just my gaming preference.  But I can understand that some people would rather have this stuff and find it enjoyable for them, so I guess the whole point of this discussion is to try to find some mechanics that will satisfy both parties without upsetting anyone.

Color coding seems like a nice idea, but the dialogue system still needs a revamp.  I support free DLC just for the romance options or gameplay options that can be turned on or off in the options screen.

[Ninja Mage]

Jacob can have my priiiiiize and a bag of chips to go with it

[Mimaiselphenai]

Grilled Trout wrote...

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Not that I don't agree that the romance dialog options aren't always clear, but I'm curious. You always have the option to flat out refuse someone's advances in both ME1 and 2 as far as I've experienced. It's not like you joke around with a character and then suddenly find them forcing themselves upon you in your quarters. Even when the moment of truth comes, you can tell them to ****** off.

So my question is, is the concern that you might run the risk of even being flirted with by a same-sex character and that would just be too horrific to play through? As I recall from Dragon Age, Zevran was pretty open about his orientation, and as far as I know there weren't hordes of angry straight men breaking down Bioware's doors to get their money back. Ultimately, even if you "accidentally" flirt with a character of the same sex, there's always a way to get out of it.

The poster I quoted... Darkhour described how one's perception in refusing the romance gently resulted in the AI character assuming that you were still okay with it.  My personal experience also tells me that the AI characters initiate the interest in romance, before you even get a dialogue option to dictate whether or not you wanted to persue something romantic with that squad mate.  And what's funny to me is that this seems to apply only to male Shepard, whereas the female Shepard seems to be more in control of the situation by being given the initiative earlier than what male Shepard would have gotten.  I don't know if this was done intentionally, or if my impressions are flat out wrong, but that's how I see it so far.  But since I play as a male Shepard most of the time, it is still disturbing to realize that without some revamp in the dialogue system, the current way has the squadmates initiating the flirting and courting.  No offense to anyone, but I will be appalled by any male squadmate doing that to my male Shepard.

Sure, there is always a way to get out of it, but the point I am making is that I don't even want to get to that point.  Certainly not in a video game where I choose to play it to have fun in the comfort of my living room sofa.  That's just my gaming preference.  But I can understand that some people would rather have this stuff and find it enjoyable for them, so I guess the whole point of this discussion is to try to find some mechanics that will satisfy both parties without upsetting anyone.

Color coding seems like a nice idea, but the dialogue system still needs a revamp.  I support free DLC just for the romance options or gameplay options that can be turned on or off in the options screen.

I was more or less directing that at everyone with issues about it, not just you. Honestly, I just don't understand what the problem is. Well, I understand, but think it's a bit silly. My gaming experience wouldn't be completely ruined by a gay character hitting on my male character. I'd find it funny if anything. And I'd find it even funnier to tell them to **** off. Hell, I went along with the Zevran "romance" in Dragon Age just for laughs (and immediately reloaded the game, but that's beside the point). I then went on with the rest of the game. As long as the decisions you make don't end up with you "accidentally" finding yourself in a same-sex character's bed, I just don't see the issue. Of course I have an idea of why it gets to people, but to explain it would be insulting. =P

[JediMB]

Darkhour wrote...

Another example: I tried to let Tali down easy, but it still turned out that "It's too dangerous", which comes out as, "No, it would be too dangerous no matter how much I'd like to" equals "Yes, I want to do it with you anyway." 

That's really the problem with getting the players used to the options being "Paragon" (top), "Neutral" (middle) and "Renegade" (bottom), because choosing the answer at the bottom turned out to be Shepard nicely telling Tali that he wasn't really interested in her like that.

Grilled Trout wrote...

My personal experience also tells
me that the AI characters initiate the interest in romance, before you
even get a dialogue option to dictate whether or not you wanted to
persue something romantic with that squad mate.  And what's funny to me
is that this seems to apply only to male Shepard, whereas the female
Shepard seems to be more in control of the situation by being given the
initiative earlier than what male Shepard would have gotten.  I don't
know if this was done intentionally, or if my impressions are flat out
wrong, but that's how I see it so far.  But since I play as a male
Shepard most of the time, it is still disturbing to realize that without
some revamp in the dialogue system, the current way has the squadmates
initiating the flirting and courting.  No offense to anyone, but I will
be appalled by any male squadmate doing that to my male Shepard.

I've only played through the game once on each gender, but I suppose I can point out...

You get into the romance branch of Miranda's dialog tree if you tell her that she's hard to compliment. This is clearly flirting on Shepard's part.

Jack isn't interested in Shepard romantically until the very end of the romance part of her dialog, really. Her ****ed-up past makes her suspect that Shepard is only spending time with her because he wants sex, and how things play out depends on Shepard's response to that.

Tali, it seems, does indeed make the first advances, although I believe it might be possible to shrug it off before she clearly expresses her feelings. Like I said, only played through this once. It makes sense for her, though, since she has more of a past with Shepard than the rest of the LI's.

Jacob just straight-out asks Shepard why she's so interested in his past and all. Shepard can show interest on a personal level, or simply as a fellow soldier.

Garrus... well, he tells Shepard about the whole "reach and flexibility" thing. Not sure if he's implying that they should get it on or not.

Thane, despite being a brand new character, is the male equivalent to Tali, really. As far as I could tell, he was the first to express an interest in my Shepard with the "siha" thing. However, I failed to climb the whole dialog tree in my FemShep playthrough, unfortunately.


Notice how the two people who do truly express a romantic interest in Shepard first are also the two who were supposedly at one point intended to be bisexual?

[SirGladiator]

I never really did anything with the three male characters other than recruit them, but certainly in Tali's case the romance starts mighty early, right from the recruiting mission in fact, and of course her loyalty mission is loaded with romance. The conversations on the ship are just the icing on the cake, which of course is still quite annoying that we FemShep players cant do the last part of them. You can flirt a bit with Jack as FemShep, but it doesnt go very far before once again the conversations come to an abrupt end. I didnt do a whole lot with Miranda, so I dont really know how to characterize her level of 'pre-romance romance'. No doubt if/when they give us the romance DLC it'll be really cool to finally enjoy those romance conversations for ourselves, the way they should've been all along, and see exactly how much nicer it is to get to play all of the romance instead of just the early parts. Im guessing it'll be WAY nicer .

[Darkhour]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Grilled Trout wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Why the rights of a minority group was put up to a popular vote is very silly. Rather or not two people of the same sex want to be legally married or not has no barring on my life. It's like voting on rather it's legal to eat hotdogs with peanut butter. I don't care what you put on your hotdog. It shouldn't be up to me to decide for you. But rather or not I have to buy peanut butter because a person who likes peanut butter on their hotdog might possibly want to eat a hotdog at my house is another story.

Given the way Mass Effect romance has benn handled so far the safe assumption is that certain situations would be forced on everyone who plays, one way or the other. Think of how you bed the consort. I thopught her gift sucked. That didn't mean I wanted to sleep with a woman that has probably had half the turians, elcor, volus and salarians on the station inside her. Another example: I tried to let Tali down easy, but it still turned out that "It's too dangerous", which comes out as, "No, it would be too dangerous no matter how much I'd like to" equals "Yes, I want to do it with you anyway."  I have a right to an opinion on what I don't want in a game. Now if Bioware could include romances in a way that I didn't experience any homosexul content, fine. But the reality of the situation, their past record, tells me that simply wouldn't be the case. 

I wouldn't be completely outraged and break the game disk if some character started hitting on me and I unintentional approved of those advances, but I'd prefer not to have it.

This man speaks the words of exactly what I have lingering in my head.  I totally agree.. the track record of romantic dialogue options in Mass Effect 1 & 2 tells me that unless a drastic change in dialogue option is placed, some way or the other, someone like me would be forced into something I would not find enjoyable at all.

I fully support same-sex-romance DLC for those who want it so badly in this game.  If you want it, you download it.  For those who don't want it, like myself, can choose not to download it.  Nobody will be forced into anything they don't like, and nobody will miss out on anything they wish they had.

However, that DLC had better be strictly on only that... adding same-sex romance options.  If BIoware added some other unrelated game contents as extra, that wouldn't be so great.

Either the DLC option... or a massive change in the dialogue system in the way the game handles romance.  Like the guy I quoted above, the current way just doesn't seem like it will work.

Not that I don't agree that the romance dialog options aren't always clear, but I'm curious. You always have the option to flat out refuse someone's advances in both ME1 and 2 as far as I've experienced. It's not like you joke around with a character and then suddenly find them forcing themselves upon you in your quarters. Even when the moment of truth comes, you can tell them to ****** off.

So my question is, is the concern that you might run the risk of even being flirted with by a same-sex character and that would just be too horrific to play through? As I recall from Dragon Age, Zevran was pretty open about his orientation, and as far as I know there weren't hordes of angry straight men breaking down Bioware's doors to get their money back. Ultimately, even if you "accidentally" flirt with a character of the same sex, there's always a way to get out of it.

Never got that far with him. He tried to kill me so I killed him right there on the spot. Zevran is like Morinth. It makes absolutely no sense to trust him. I would hope that in ME3 you don't have to romance anyone. Instead of "romances" you would have established "relationships" from the get go. If you've went through Liara, Ashley, Tali, Miranda, Jack and Kelly (and possibly Shiala and Gianna in ME3) and you are still single, then and only then, a gay male character might question your sexuality jokingly. At which point you can confirm:

   No, I'm straight
/ 
--  Umm, I'm bisexual
\\
   I'm super, thanks for asking!!!

At which point it could go from there. I kinda thought Jacob was gay on my first playthrough. He and Shepard were too friendly and not in a Kaidan broham kinda way. Guys don't tell other guys they have a nice body. Not with goofy grins on their face.

Modifié par Darkhour, 19 mars 2010 - 12:33 .

[Grilled Trout]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...
I was more or less directing that at everyone with issues about it, not just you. Honestly, I just don't understand what the problem is. Well, I understand, but think it's a bit silly. My gaming experience wouldn't be completely ruined by a gay character hitting on my male character. I'd find it funny if anything. And I'd find it even funnier to tell them to **** off. Hell, I went along with the Zevran "romance" in Dragon Age just for laughs (and immediately reloaded the game, but that's beside the point). I then went on with the rest of the game. As long as the decisions you make don't end up with you "accidentally" finding yourself in a same-sex character's bed, I just don't see the issue. Of course I have an idea of why it gets to people, but to explain it would be insulting. =P

Fair enough.  Though my response with your quote included was actually me in part agreeing with what you had to say.

Romance isn't a vital part of my enjoyment in Mass Effect, so I can do without it completely.  Now I haven't played Dragon Age: Origins and don't plan to, so I don't know and will never know how this Zevran character plays like.  I will have much better perception about Bioware's handling of bisexual romance had I done so, but at this point, I am not interested.  I guess I am a bit tired of fantasy type RPGs, which made Mass Effect even more attractive for me.  We don't have a lot of good quality space-themed RPGs these days.

[JediMB]

Darkhour wrote...

Never got that far with him. He tried to kill me so I killed him right there on the spot. Zevran is like Morinth. It makes absolutely no sense to trust him.

Zevran really is nothing like Morinth. He's more comparable to Thane, although he was unlucky enough to be hired to kill the main protagonist.

Get close enough to Zevran and he'll be a really funny and loyal guy.

Get close enough to Morinth and she'll fry your brain and eat your soul.

[Grilled Trout]

JediMB wrote...

I've only played through the game once on each gender, but I suppose I can point out...

You get into the romance branch of Miranda's dialog tree if you tell her that she's hard to compliment. This is clearly flirting on Shepard's part.

Jack isn't interested in Shepard romantically until the very end of the romance part of her dialog, really. Her ****ed-up past makes her suspect that Shepard is only spending time with her because he wants sex, and how things play out depends on Shepard's response to that.

Tali, it seems, does indeed make the first advances, although I believe it might be possible to shrug it off before she clearly expresses her feelings. Like I said, only played through this once. It makes sense for her, though, since she has more of a past with Shepard than the rest of the LI's.

Jacob just straight-out asks Shepard why she's so interested in his past and all. Shepard can show interest on a personal level, or simply as a fellow soldier.

Garrus... well, he tells Shepard about the whole "reach and flexibility" thing. Not sure if he's implying that they should get it on or not.

Thane, despite being a brand new character, is the male equivalent to Tali, really. As far as I could tell, he was the first to express an interest in my Shepard with the "siha" thing. However, I failed to climb the whole dialog tree in my FemShep playthrough, unfortunately.


Notice how the two people who do truly express a romantic interest in Shepard first are also the two who were supposedly at one point intended to be bisexual?

Your analysis seems quite right.  I don't know which character was "supposedly" recorded as bisexual since I have not read anything official about it.  I don't really care about it though.

My curiosity in me would tell me to try romance with all the available options, but somehow I am not too interested about it.  Out of the three possible female love interest, I would have to say that Tali's was probably the most well done, though like you said, she didn't seem to waste time showing her affection towards Shepard.  Miranda's wasn't too interesting, and I wouldn't be bothered with Jack at all.

[JediMB]

I thought the romance with Jack was sweet, but the way it just isn't acknowledged in dialog after you return to the Normandy is annoying. That was a pretty huge deal for her.

[WizzyWarlock]

You can play a gay Shepard if you want to, but don't forget that just because you're the hero and want to get jiggy with someone, doesn't mean your feelings are going to be returned. Gay/Lesbian's are in the minority, and just because you find Jacob interesting, doesn't mean he wants to be touching you anywhere below waist level.

Actually, I was playing a lesbian Shepard through ME1 and into ME2, I went with Liara in the first game as she seemed female, then figured Jack would be more my characters tastes in ME2. It was nice to get to the point where Shepard was expressing interest, but Jack said she wasn't into the whole girl-on-girl scene. I thought that was very well done.

And that's how it should be. There may be other gay/lesbian characters in ME, but they're not all going to be onboard the Normandy. And why should they be?

Modifié par WizzyWarlock, 19 mars 2010 - 05:33 .

[The Uncanny]

WizzyWarlock wrote...

It was nice to get to the point where Shepard was expressing interest, but Jack said she wasn't into the whole girl-on-girl scene. I thought that was very well done.

I thought it was really blunt and seemed to come out of nowhere. What she means by what she actually says is also really vague.

WizzyWarlock wrote...

There may be other gay/lesbian characters in ME, but they're not all
going to be onboard the Normandy. And why should they be?

I have no problem with that at all... but in that case I want to have the option of saying to a character "I'm interested" even if it only draws the reply "I'm not". That would mean I'd at least been given the option to RP my Shepard the way I want to.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

I don't quite see how 'gays/lesbians are in the minority' is in any way a relevant argument. Turians, Quarians, Drell, and Asari are nonexistant IRL, yet they're available as LIs. And frankly, I'd imagine human s/s relationships in the ME future would be more common than xenophilic ones.

Not to mention the statistical likelihood that of the crew of 10 or 11 (DLC dependent) that you command, MShep and FemShep can each fraternise with 3 of them (plus a potential romp with the PA). How realistic is that? More than a quarter of your crew is ready, willing, and able to bed their supervisor/commander? Bull. There are certain story conceits in play - including that Shepard is so badass that s/he is desireable to many, or something - to explain why all but one of the female crew are beddable, and half the male crew are the same. Really it's for players to decide which romance they might wish to engage in, not to realistically represent something that would happen IRL. There's no reason that this should not also apply to s/s relationships, IMO.

I don't think it'd be that much of a stretch to say that everyone's gay for Shepard. S/He's a badass space marine that can take down Reapers and save the galaxy after two years of...well, severe downtime would be an understatment. Shepard is meant to be distilled awesome. Who wouldn't find that somewhat attractive?

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 19 mars 2010 - 08:21 .

[Mimaiselphenai]

Darkhour wrote...

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Grilled Trout wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Why the rights of a minority group was put up to a popular vote is very silly. Rather or not two people of the same sex want to be legally married or not has no barring on my life. It's like voting on rather it's legal to eat hotdogs with peanut butter. I don't care what you put on your hotdog. It shouldn't be up to me to decide for you. But rather or not I have to buy peanut butter because a person who likes peanut butter on their hotdog might possibly want to eat a hotdog at my house is another story.

Given the way Mass Effect romance has benn handled so far the safe assumption is that certain situations would be forced on everyone who plays, one way or the other. Think of how you bed the consort. I thopught her gift sucked. That didn't mean I wanted to sleep with a woman that has probably had half the turians, elcor, volus and salarians on the station inside her. Another example: I tried to let Tali down easy, but it still turned out that "It's too dangerous", which comes out as, "No, it would be too dangerous no matter how much I'd like to" equals "Yes, I want to do it with you anyway."  I have a right to an opinion on what I don't want in a game. Now if Bioware could include romances in a way that I didn't experience any homosexul content, fine. But the reality of the situation, their past record, tells me that simply wouldn't be the case. 

I wouldn't be completely outraged and break the game disk if some character started hitting on me and I unintentional approved of those advances, but I'd prefer not to have it.

This man speaks the words of exactly what I have lingering in my head.  I totally agree.. the track record of romantic dialogue options in Mass Effect 1 & 2 tells me that unless a drastic change in dialogue option is placed, some way or the other, someone like me would be forced into something I would not find enjoyable at all.

I fully support same-sex-romance DLC for those who want it so badly in this game.  If you want it, you download it.  For those who don't want it, like myself, can choose not to download it.  Nobody will be forced into anything they don't like, and nobody will miss out on anything they wish they had.

However, that DLC had better be strictly on only that... adding same-sex romance options.  If BIoware added some other unrelated game contents as extra, that wouldn't be so great.

Either the DLC option... or a massive change in the dialogue system in the way the game handles romance.  Like the guy I quoted above, the current way just doesn't seem like it will work.

Not that I don't agree that the romance dialog options aren't always clear, but I'm curious. You always have the option to flat out refuse someone's advances in both ME1 and 2 as far as I've experienced. It's not like you joke around with a character and then suddenly find them forcing themselves upon you in your quarters. Even when the moment of truth comes, you can tell them to ****** off.

So my question is, is the concern that you might run the risk of even being flirted with by a same-sex character and that would just be too horrific to play through? As I recall from Dragon Age, Zevran was pretty open about his orientation, and as far as I know there weren't hordes of angry straight men breaking down Bioware's doors to get their money back. Ultimately, even if you "accidentally" flirt with a character of the same sex, there's always a way to get out of it.

Never got that far with him. He tried to kill me so I killed him right there on the spot. Zevran is like Morinth. It makes absolutely no sense to trust him. I would hope that in ME3 you don't have to romance anyone. Instead of "romances" you would have established "relationships" from the get go. If you've went through Liara, Ashley, Tali, Miranda, Jack and Kelly (and possibly Shiala and Gianna in ME3) and you are still single, then and only then, a gay male character might question your sexuality jokingly. At which point you can confirm:

   No, I'm straight
/ 
--  Umm, I'm bisexual
\\\\
   I'm super, thanks for asking!!!

At which point it could go from there. I kinda thought Jacob was gay on my first playthrough. He and Shepard were too friendly and not in a Kaidan broham kinda way. Guys don't tell other guys they have a nice body. Not with goofy grins on their face.

That's what I'd prefer too, honestly. The only romances I was actually interested in in ME2 are Tali and Garrus, because there's history. Even those (Garrus' at least, haven't tried Tali yet since I'm still on my femshep playthrough) seem poorly done. The better "romantic" dialog option is the one that pretty much says "let's just be friends" even though it could also be taken as subtle flirting instead of just asking to **** right then and there like the other option.

The fact of the matter is that love it or leave it, the crappy romance dialog is there, and it should be available to all, not just some.

[Mimaiselphenai]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

I don't quite see how 'gays/lesbians' are in the minority is in any way a relevant argument. Turians, Quarians, Drell, and Asari are nonexistant IRL, yet they're available as LIs. And frankly, I'd imagine human s/s relationships in the ME future would be more common than xenophilic ones.

Not to mention the statistical likelihood that of the crew of 10 or 11 (DLC dependent) that you command, MShep and FemShep can each fraternise with 3 of them (plus a potential romp with the PA). How realistic is that? More than a quarter of your crew is ready, willing, and able to bed their supervisor/commander? Bull. There are certain story conceits in play - including that Shepard is so badass that s/he is desireable to many, or something - to explain why all but one of the female crew are beddable, and half the male crew are the same. Really it's for players to decide which romance they might wish to engage in, not to realistically represent something that would happen IRL. There's no reason that this should not also apply to s/s relationships, IMO.

I don't think it'd be that much of a stretch to say that everyone's gay for Shepard. S/He's a badass space marine that can take down Reapers and save the galaxy after two years of...well, severe downtime would be an understatment. Shepard is meant to be distilled awesome. Who wouldn't find that somewhat attractive?

That's sort of the point I was trying to make in an earlier post. Limiting a "way out there" sci-fi by our rules in any regard seems a little dumb. Who knows how mankind's sexual orientation would shift if the setting of Mass Effect became a reality? We don't know, of course. If anything, I think any strong fantasy/sci-fi themed game should be treated with a "pansexual" outlook rather than being constrained by our societal norm. But hey.

[DaeJi]

The problem with the "you can play a gay Shepard and just not romance anyone" line of thought is that it is okay with punishing players for playing a certain way. In the Mass Effect series Shepard is supposed to be your character; i.e. you decide their past, how they react to situations, who they are, etc. He or she can be straight, female bisexual, or lesbian, but he can never be gay or male bisexual. And no, saying that he can just not romance anyone isn't a valid excuse for not including such relationships, it's a cop out.



This would be much less of a problem if F/F relationships weren't possible. Whether or not you consider Liara one, Kelly is a human female who femShep can get personal with.

[Darkhour]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

Not to mention the statistical likelihood that of the crew of 10 or 11 (DLC dependent) that you command, MShep and FemShep can each fraternise with 3 of them (plus a potential romp with the PA). How realistic is that? More than a quarter of your crew is ready, willing, and able to bed their supervisor/commander? Bull. There are certain story conceits in play - including that Shepard is so badass that s/he is desireable to many, or something - to explain why all but one of the female crew are beddable, and half the male crew are the same. Really it's for players to decide which romance they might wish to engage in, not to realistically represent something that would happen IRL.

There are more crewmembers on that ship than just the ones you take on missions. I think there are like 9 other women on that ship.

And have you seen Dennis Kucinich's wife? Please, women LOVE men with money and power. Even if that man looks like an underpants gnome. If that guy can get one decent looking woman Shepard can easily and quite believable get every women in the entie galaxy. Case closed.

There's no reason that this should not also apply to s/s relationships, IMO.

There is a reason. The developers are mostly a bunch of heterosexual men who think man on man intimacy is gross. They don't want to tarish their creation. They won't come out and say this, but this is the reality of the world we live in. Then again, maybe Mr. Vanderloo doesn't want his likeness used in a homosexual context. I wouldn't either. 

Femshep is a bisexual by default (for the sake of male players). Heterosexual females cannot turn off femsheps bisexuality. Maleshep is straight by default. Homosexuals cannot turn on his bisexuality. I think it's pretty clear that they don't want the showcase Shepard to be a homosexual. He is Bioware's creation. Not any elses. You don't get to make demands of the council developers.

Modifié par Darkhour, 20 mars 2010 - 03:42 .

[Mimaiselphenai]

Darkhour wrote...


There is a reason. The developers are mostly a bunch of heterosexual men who think man on man intimacy is gross. They don't want to tarish their creation. They won't come out and say this, but this is the reality of the world we live in. Then again, maybe Mr. Vanderloo doesn't want his likeness used in a homosexual context. I wouldn't either. 

Femshep is a bisexual by default (for the sake of male players). Heterosexual females cannot turn off femsheps bisexuality. Maleshep is straight by default. Homosexuals cannot turn on his bisexuality. I think it's pretty clear that they don't want the showcase Shepard to be a homosexual. He is Bioware's creation. Not any elses. You don't get to make demands of the council developers.

Well, the main character in Dragon Age is also their creation, save for voice acting in dialog. That doesn't stop Zevran from lusting after him. The majority of people who are for same-sex romances most likely don't play as default male Shepard, anyway.

[Ryzaki]

...Oh god not another one who thinks every woman will fawn over MShep. You do realize he's working with a bunch of trained professional women right? Ones who would have enough brains to separate work from pleasure? Same goes for males with FemShep really. In addition what are the chances that if they see you flirting with someone else they calmly tell you to choose? Seriously? The whole game isn't based off reality. Oh noes! A sci-fi fantasy game with bunch of made up stuff isn't be realistic when it comes to percentage of people on your ship with a certain sexual preference! Oh noes! <_< On the other hand Shepard being nearly perfectly intact with all his memories and mannerisms from before death upon resurrection? Totally possible and makes sense! Along with people voluntarily downgarding from near infinite bullets for thermal clips that make the gun worthless when they run out! Same guy who wasted billions of credits resurrecting you no longer wants to give you any money to fuel your ship while you're trying to prepare for the mission he's sending you on? That makes total sense too!

The rest of the stuff goes into spoiler territory so I'll leave it at that.

...also MM would tarnish Mass Effect? You must be joking. Its a video game. Nothing more nothing less. MM didn't tarnish DA or JE I doubt it would destroy ME.

Also: Uh...FemShep isn't bisexual if you don't want her to be. There are plenty of FemSheps that aren't. So I don't know where you are getting that from.MShep isn't heterosexual either if you don't want him to be. FemShep has the OPTION to persue a straight or lesbian relationship. She can be bisexual, gay or straight. MShep has the OPTIon to persue a straight relationship only. He can also be bisexual, gay or straight. The only difference between him and FemShep is that FemShep gets to act on her preferences while MShep has to be content with his hand.

As a FemShep avoiding all F/F encounters and only focusing on M/F will make her straight. She isn't magically bisexual. MShep while not being able to express his sexuality can ignore all come ons from those of the opposite sex. So...yeah...I can play a asexual Shep or a gay one who doesn't get any Edit: or a bisexual who happens to only be with the ladies at the moment.

If Shep is canoically any sex/orientation the whole "Your Shepard" marketing speel goes to hell. Though frankly its a DEFAULT shepard. Not a canon one. This whole "canon" nonsense needs to burn in a fire.

Also SimonTheFrog. Your post is win.

Edit: This is overly mean. Anyways what I meant to say is that Shep isn't canoically any gender or orientation or alignment.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 mars 2010 - 04:14 .

[SimonTheFrog]

Darkhour wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

<snip>.

<snipsomemore>
Femshep is a bisexual by default (for the sake of male players). Heterosexual females cannot turn off femsheps bisexuality. Maleshep is straight by default. Homosexuals cannot turn on his bisexuality. I think it's pretty clear that they don't want the showcase Shepard to be a homosexual. He is Bioware's creation. Not any elses. You don't get to make demands of the council developers.

Do you actually understand the very concept of a roleplaygame?

[JaylaClark]

DaeJi wrote...

The problem with the "you can play a gay Shepard and just not romance anyone" line of thought is that it is okay with punishing players for playing a certain way. In the Mass Effect series Shepard is supposed to be your character; i.e. you decide their past, how they react to situations, who they are, etc. He or she can be straight, female bisexual, or lesbian, but he can never be gay or male bisexual. And no, saying that he can just not romance anyone isn't a valid excuse for not including such relationships, it's a cop out.

This would be much less of a problem if F/F relationships weren't possible. Whether or not you consider Liara one, Kelly is a human female who femShep can get personal with.

Just dropping back in to express my agreement with this, particularly the last bit.

As much as Casey Hudson wants us to believe that Liara is not officially female (and let's be honest, according to current human nature that doesn't matter, as I once said, Kaidan's abortive comment is exactly right:  "Yeah, but you look like one"), Yeoman Chambers is definitely female, no questions asked.  (She also comes across as kind of the village bicycle a bit, but let's not work on Unfortunate Implications this time around.)  And Shepard can flirt with her, cuddle with her, give her a hug -- yeah, that's a sore point with us self-titled Liarasexuals, Kelly gets a hug, Liara doesn't, but I digress -- even have her up for a dinner that we never get to see, making us wonder if anything ended up happening.  So, yeah, femShep is pretty much canon Blessed With Options.  (Plus a whole bunch of asari seem vaguely interested in Shep no matter what gender, which as I've said I count as F/F in femShep's case, and I think it should be counted as such.)

So if female Shepard is bisexual, why isn't male Shepard?  Though Tali and Thane -- whom most allege are the ones who were going to be bi, though I've been told it's because of audio files, which sadly proves less than we'd think with this company -- would be a continuation of the strange tradition that Joystiq.com noted.  To wit, "Why is lesbian sex only okay with aliens?"  (Though to be honest, wasn't that subverted with Jade Empire anyway?  Not to mention the fact that my Warden's sweet Orlesian flower also screws that up.  Plus she's flattered by the Zevran attention, just not particularly interested.)  So maybe that was the reason for the cut?  Again, if it really was a cut.

[Darkhour]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

.

Femshep is a bisexual by default (for the sake of male players). Heterosexual females cannot turn off femsheps bisexuality. Maleshep is straight by default. Homosexuals cannot turn on his bisexuality. I think it's pretty clear that they don't want the showcase Shepard to be a homosexual. He is Bioware's creation. Not any elses. You don't get to make demands of the council developers.

Do you actually understand the very concept of a roleplaygame?

I don't know what roleplaying games you have been playing for the past 20 years, but ones like Dargon Age are in the minority.

[Darkhour]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Darkhour wrote...


There is a reason. The developers are mostly a bunch of heterosexual men who think man on man intimacy is gross. They don't want to tarish their creation. They won't come out and say this, but this is the reality of the world we live in. Then again, maybe Mr. Vanderloo doesn't want his likeness used in a homosexual context. I wouldn't either. 

Femshep is a bisexual by default (for the sake of male players). Heterosexual females cannot turn off femsheps bisexuality. Maleshep is straight by default. Homosexuals cannot turn on his bisexuality. I think it's pretty clear that they don't want the showcase Shepard to be a homosexual. He is Bioware's creation. Not any elses. You don't get to make demands of the council developers.

Well, the main character in Dragon Age is also their creation, save for voice acting in dialog. That doesn't stop Zevran from lusting after him. The majority of people who are for same-sex romances most likely don't play as default male Shepard, anyway.

Default male shepard does not refer to Vanderloo's model. I have never played with that face and honestly don't think it goes right with the voice in addition to not finding his likeness particularly pleasing. By default I mean his basic core: 30ish, N7, straight, human male badass. All his choices reflect that rather you are renegade or paragon. Femshep is 30ish, N7, bisexual human female badass. All her choices reflect that. 

EVERYONE plays the default Shepard. EVERYONE. 

[Lightice_av]

Darkhour wrote...

I don't know what roleplaying games you have been playing for the past 20 years, but ones like Dargon Age are in the minority.

And this is an argument...how? Bioware's style of RPGs have always been the minority, period. Most companies don't care nearly as much about the story or characters as Bioware does. Does that mean it's bad? Hell no.

Femshep is 30ish, N7, bisexual human female badass. All her choices
reflect that.

Nothing whatsoever forces FemShep to be bisexual. You can shoot down every single pass women make at you; likewise, you can shoot down every single male and be lesbian all the way. FemShep has the full range of options available. Why shouldn't MShep gain exactly the same variety of possibilities? This game has a major female playerbase, in the case you didn't know, and many of them happen to play with MShep, just as many male players play with FemShep.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 20 mars 2010 - 12:38 .

[Darkhour]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Oh god not another one who thinks every woman will fawn over MShep. You do realize he's working with a bunch of trained professional women right? Ones who would have enough brains to separate work from pleasure? Same goes for males with FemShep really. In addition what are the chances that if they see you flirting with someone else they calmly tell you to choose? Seriously? The whole game isn't based off reality. Oh noes! A sci-fi fantasy game with bunch of made up stuff isn't be realistic when it comes to percentage of people on your ship with a certain sexual preference! Oh noes! <_< On the other hand Shepard being nearly perfectly intact with all his memories and mannerisms from before death upon resurrection? Totally possible and makes sense! Along with people voluntarily downgarding from near infinite bullets for thermal clips that make the gun worthless when they run out! Same guy who wasted billions of credits resurrecting you no longer wants to give you any money to fuel your ship while you're trying to prepare for the mission he's sending you on? That makes total sense too!

The rest of the stuff goes into spoiler territory so I'll leave it at that.

I thought the Dennis Kucinish comment and the "case closed" would make it an obvious joke. Sorry if I overestimated people's sense of humour. and please take a chill pill.

...also MM would tarnish Mass Effect? You must be joking. Its a video game. Nothing more nothing less. MM didn't tarnish DA or JE I doubt it would destroy ME.

It could tarish Shepard as far as the developers are concerned. It is their creation. In DA you aren't some badass (unless you're a mage with the right set of spells). Your a nobody in that game. That game has no default character. It is totally up to the player for the most part. ME isn't like that. Those who created Shepard probably have a certain image in mind and, to be blunt, taking it up the butt may not fall in line with their vision. Many see it as emasculating and ecky. Not everyone can look at a gay Shepard and see a person they could idolize. Some of those people may just so happen to be the majorityof the development team.

Also: Uh...FemShep isn't bisexual if you don't want her to be. [...]FemShep has the OPTION to persue a straight or lesbian relationship. She can be bisexual, gay or straight.

Yes, she is. A bisexual who has a committed relationship with a male is still a bisexual. A celibate bisexual is still a bisexual.  Your first renegade playthrough you probably bedded the consort. She's likes chicks. Deal with it. She has options to flirt and get with chicks because she is bisexual. Why is this so hard to accept?

ALL FEMSHEPS ARE BISEXUAL. YES, THE ONE YOU PLAY IS A BISEXUAL EVEN IF YOU CHOSE NOT TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH ANOTHER FEMALES.

There are plenty of FemSheps that aren't. So I don't know where you are getting that from.MShep isn't heterosexual either if you don't want him to be. MShep has the OPTIon to persue a straight relationship only. He can also be bisexual, gay or straight.

 
Maleshep is a heterosexual. He can not and will flirt with or engage sexually with another man. It is "hard coded" that way. That makes him straight no matter what traits you'd like to pretend he has. I like to pretend that one of my Shepards has no emotions. When he does use inflection I pretnd he is just mimicking observed human behavior, but clearly Shepard has emotions rather you are renegade or paragon. My desire to roleplay him a certain way doesn't change anything.

If Shep is canoically any sex/orientation the whole "Your Shepard" marketing speel goes to hell. 

Then its went to hell. I guess ME is just another Final Fantasy because you can't choose your sexual orientation. Because let's face it, being able to have dude on dude action is the main selling point of any non-linear RPG.