7455 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

cutthecameras wrote...
I'm not in favor of appearing stubborn but I don't agree gay LIs should be pointed out to the player in an immersion-breaking way. I have reconsidered my view on the colored font idea however; if all romance-initiating dialogue were colored it would certainly help both sides.

Yeah, it'd work great.  Interested in a gay relationship?  All systems are go, baby!  Aren't? Danger, Danger Will Robinson!  For the homophobic, now they know who to pick all renegade options with!  Win, win, win. 

[FKA_Servo]

Yeled wrote...

I don't think most straight players don't want to encounter any gay dialogue. I'm straight. I have no problem with it. Most Dragon Age players seem capable of handling it. Same with Jade Empire players.

I think a small minority of people are afraid to encounter it, and even these would get over it pretty quick.

Seriously.  If these people are so offended that they go and boycott the game, Bioware ain't gonna feel it.  Besides, they've already got their money!

:happy:

[tmelange]

didymos1120 wrote...

tmelange wrote...
Asari's don't conform to the male/female dichotomy.

True enough.  They all look just like women.  In many, if not most, instances, ones attractive to the majority of straight human males.   I won't speak for the gay human females, but I imagine many find a lot to like there.

I think of asari as women, myself. I think it's clear they are intended to express the female titilation factor in the game. None of them are running around in construction boots and coveralls. I always shake my head when BW tries to gender neuter them when convenient, when asari as constructs exploit every female characteristic and trope in existence.

[danman2424]

didymos1120 wrote...

Octorox wrote...
No, but Bioware's games have morality built in. i.e. you can be horrible person if you want. Some people might be angry that their fictional homophobic Shepards banged a bisexual character and they can't do anything about it.

I'm sorry, but that is an utterly absurd argument.  They can reload their damn save or start the hell over and cope with it by being a jerk to that darn, sneaky bisexual.

You're a very angry person and exactly the type of person I'm talking about when i speak about people feeling entitled to gay sex in Mass Effect.

[SorenTrigg]

I am all for being civil, but a toggle to turn off gay content would just seem...insulting.



People can deal with it if they run into it. It is not like it is something that can easily scar someone for life or anything. Sometimes people have to encounter things they do not like in Mass Effect.



Also, hooray for the new thread finally.

[FKA_Servo]

didymos1120 wrote...


Yeah, it'd work great.  Interested in a gay relationship?  All systems are go, baby!  Aren't? Danger, Danger Will Robinson!  For the homophobic, now they know who to pick all renegade options with!  Win, win, win. 

This.  Times ten.

[BrianWilly]

danman2424 wrote...

I read the FAQ, hence the reason I mentioned the quote.....

His quote explains things very well and shouldn't be confusing to anyone.

Apparently Dragon Age is a bit different because while I know who Commander Shepard is and I know many people that aren't that into games that know of the character, I don't think i know of anyone that has heard of the "Grey Warden". Heck I'm a pretty big gamer and i don't even know who that is.

It's not confusing. It's just flat-out inaccurate. Shepard's gender, race, appearance, background, skillset, morality, likes and dislikes, spirituality, and choice between more than ten romances in the two games are all customizable by the player. It's very clearly not a third-person narrative in that sense.

Muzyka didn't mention anything about Shepard's popularity in his comments, either, so I'm not sure what that would have to do with it.

Modifié par BrianWilly, 26 février 2010 - 06:19 .

[Octorox]

jlb524 wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

I think most straight folks on here (including myself) are fine with (same sex) being added to ME3.It's how do you go about having the feature.Most straight folks don't want to run across any dialog , that means let's start a gay relationship.An example you merely say something that is encouraging to Garrus/male etc ,As a male shepard I do not want a dialog box that comes up saying : "Are you saying you want a relationship with me ?" from Garrus.

As a female Shepard (and a real life lesbian) I really don't want to see this from Garrus either.  I can deal with it though.

I have no problem with it if it makes sense for the character. I think Garrus has been pretty clearly defined as a straight character in ME1 and ME2. I have no problem with a new gay character making advances on me as Shepard. I'll simply tell him I'm not interested.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

But that's what I'm saying.For many people on here who are straight and comfortable with having the dialog in , but choosing not to chose it.Many others don't want to remotely encounter it , which is ok not everyone should have to view those options.

I think its better like my past-page post.While importing or creating a new shepard you have a same sex enable/disable feature.Then the straight players like myself would not have to worry about any same sex option appearing because it would be disabled.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 26 février 2010 - 06:18 .

[BrianWilly]

 Just as a quick reminder to everyone to please keep the debate civil and cool-headed; there's already been a lot of good discussions so far, so keep it up!

[FKA_Servo]

tmelange wrote...

I think of asari as women, myself. I think it's clear they are intended to express the female titilation factor in the game. None of them are running around in construction boots and coveralls. I always shake my head when BW tries to gender neuter them when convenient, when asari as constructs exploit every female characteristic and trope in existence.

Actually, if anyone is willing to fire up their game, they can peek in the codex and see that all asari are sexually female.

Monogendered does not mean "no gender" - it means "one gender."  They are a race of women.

Women.  Asari are women.

This isn't about their orientation.  This is their biological sex.

Edit:  I'm not being hostile with you, tmelange.   We are in agreement - I just hate that argument and I rage whenever it comes up.

Modifié par TommyServo, 26 février 2010 - 06:25 .

[Ryzaki]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

But that's what I'm saying.For many people on here who are straight and comfortable with having the dialog in , but choosing not to chose it.Many others don't want to remotely encounter it , which is ok not everyone should have to view those options.

I think its better like my above post.While importing or creating a new shepard you have a same sex enable/disable feature.Then the straight players like myself would not have to worry about any same sex option appearing because it would be disabled.

So let's have one that disables straight romances too. Then I'll be all for it.

[cutthecameras]

Octorox wrote...

 Fine, I give up, I'll concede that the Renegade gameplay argument is dumb. But I'll just say this: If the fictional character Tali wanted femShep as much as maleShep and had no reason to hide it, it would have been in ME2. Those obviously weren't Bioware's final plans for the character, they had entertained that idea, but ultimately removed it. If Bioware decides to make a Lesbian romance possible with Tali in ME3, with a story explanation as to why she wasn't interested in ME2 (she was afraid, embarassed, w/e) I'd be perfectly okay with that.

I don't think anyone can point with certainty to why the lesbian content between Tali and female Shepard was removed from ME2. There are a few theories in my mind, the last on the list would have to be "Bioware wanted it that way because that's just how Tali is". If you have played as female Shepard you would see she approaches you in much the same way and that there is definitely grounds for intimacy to develop. It actually feels rather jarring that the content was removed, since it actually makes Tali look bad IMO.

[Octorox]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

But that's what I'm saying.For many people on here who are straight and comfortable with having the dialog in , but choosing not to chose it.Many others don't want to remotely encounter it , which is ok not everyone should have to view those options.

I think its better like my above post.While importing or creating a new shepard you have a same sex enable/disable feature.Then the straight players like myself would not have to worry about any same sex option appearing because it would be disabled.

I think that's a little insulting to gay players. It's also unrealistic and ultimately just as bad to me as having a Tali DLC "gay trigger" It's just a "no gay trigger" instead.

[jlb524]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

I think its better like my past-page post.While importing or creating a new shepard you have a same sex enable/disable feature.Then the straight players like myself would not have to worry about any same sex option appearing because it would be disabled.

Then, I want an option to disable all straight romances.  In my ideal game, only the hot ladies will hit on my FemShep and the guys will be uninterested in her.  That's the game I want!

[didymos1120]

Yeled wrote...

I don't think most straight players don't want to encounter any gay dialogue. I'm straight. I have no problem with it. Most Dragon Age players seem capable of handling it.

I can attest to that as a straight male:

Zevran:  "Hey, sailor." (I'm paraphrasing)
Me in DA:O: "Um, no thanks?"
Zevran:  "Srsly?"
Me in DA:O: "Fraid 'so"
Zevran:  "OK.  Cool."
Me:  "So, wanna go kill stuff?"
Zevran:  "Of course."

Same with Jade Empire players.

You know, I had absolutely no clue the Sky thing even existed, and I was pretty much universally nice to the dude.  To this day, I still have no idea how you trigger it (I know: FAQs exist.  I've just never bothered replaying).
 

I think a small minority of people are afraid to encounter it, and even these would get over it pretty quick.

Some of those, sure.  I think you're a bit optimistic on that count, though.  Maybe even wildly optimistic.

[mothbanquet]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Mothbanquet, this how I kind of see it also

Ok , here's thing if you make it to were tali for example turns bi.Why after two games with no explanation would she do that.I think you would need to find a reason other than she's magically switched to be gay.

I think most straight folks on here (including myself) are fine with (same sex) being added to ME3.It's how do you go about having the feature.Most straight folks don't want to run across any dialog , that means let's start a gay relationship.An example you merely say something that is encouraging to Garrus/male etc ,As a male shepard I do not want a dialog box that comes up saying : "Are you saying you want a relationship with me ?" from Garrus.

Now if from the start of ME3( importing or making a new shepard M/F ) you have an option to enable/disable gay preference(dialog/relationship) that can be turned on/off , I think that's what would satisfy both groups.Which if that's how it is I think that's the best solution.One that would prevent straight groups from even having to worry about it altogether.

To be honest mate, I really wouldn't care.  Again, I'm of the opinion that such a change wouldn't affect me in the slightest so, why not?

We all have a choice and again the idea of turning something liek that off, while a sensible compromise, would again break the challenge and immersion.

[tyddrwsau]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
Now if from the start of ME3( importing or making a new shepard M/F ) you have an option to enable/disable gay preference(dialog/relationship) that can be turned on/off , I think that's what would satisfy both groups.Which if that's how it is I think that's the best solution.One that would prevent straight groups from even having to worry about it altogether.

IF BioWare were to go the route of having some sort of toggle that activated same-sex content before Shepard ever has the chance to flirt with another character, an in-game event would be more tasteful than an Enable/Disable box. Granted, a conversation where one character says "That guy's cute" and Shepard has the "I agree" option might be too subtle.

Implement more customized decor for the captain's cabin on the Normandy. Asari saleswoman says: "Our deluxe package comes with his and hers bedside chronometers." Shepard asks: "How about his and his?"

[cutthecameras]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

But that's what I'm saying.For many people on here who are straight and comfortable with having the dialog in , but choosing not to chose it.Many others don't want to remotely encounter it , which is ok not everyone should have to view those options.

I think its better like my past-page post.While importing or creating a new shepard you have a same sex enable/disable feature.Then the straight players like myself would not have to worry about any same sex option appearing because it would be disabled.

If gay gamers have to "view" straight options then straight gamers can "view" gay options. Seeing a flirtatious dialogue option on the conversation wheel with a character you didn't expect shouldn't make you want to vomit. Just don't pick it. You will only encounter it if you choose to is the point. Plus, we have talked about using colored font, to indicate that picking a certain choice will likely begin a romance subplot with a character.

[Yeled]

Octorox wrote...

 Fine, I give up, I'll concede that the Renegade gameplay argument is dumb. But I'll just say this: If the fictional character Tali wanted femShep as much as maleShep and had no reason to hide it, it would have been in ME2. Those obviously weren't Bioware's final plans for the character, they had entertained that idea, but ultimately removed it. If Bioware decides to make a Lesbian romance possible with Tali in ME3, with a story explanation as to why she wasn't interested in ME2 (she was afraid, embarassed, w/e) I'd be perfectly okay with that.

Frankly, if you played femshep Tali seems very into her.  She stutters around femshep, gets embarrassed, talks about sharing suits with her, etc.  I actually interpreted Tali as very interested in my femshep.  There would be no need to retcon anything to include Tali as a f/f romance in ME3 or even ME2. 

If anything, Tali could probably be considered bi (or attracted to whatever gender shepard happens to be in your game) already.  No, femshep doesn't have sex with Tali.  But that's about all that is left out.  Everything else is pretty clear.

[Ryzaki]

didymos1120 wrote...

You know, I had absolutely no clue the Sky thing even existed, and I was pretty much universally nice to the dude.  To this day, I still have no idea how you trigger it (I know: FAQs exist.  I've just never bothered replaying).

You have to reject ever single female LI choose a certain string of dialogue (anything else and the issue disappears) and then respond with another single dialogue.

Yeah only reason I figured that out was because I was playing douchebag character. Good bloody grief. I was pleased by a little annoyed when I had to do the same thing with my goody two shoes.  And like always that cuts you off all other dialogue with them. *sighs*

I hope they don't do that for ME3. That would be immensely annoying.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 février 2010 - 06:24 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Correct , to further the species through extracting genetic material from either male or female races.But for all points they're female in every way possible.

[MPSai]

cutthecameras wrote...

Octorox wrote...

 Fine, I give up, I'll concede that the Renegade gameplay argument is dumb. But I'll just say this: If the fictional character Tali wanted femShep as much as maleShep and had no reason to hide it, it would have been in ME2. Those obviously weren't Bioware's final plans for the character, they had entertained that idea, but ultimately removed it. If Bioware decides to make a Lesbian romance possible with Tali in ME3, with a story explanation as to why she wasn't interested in ME2 (she was afraid, embarassed, w/e) I'd be perfectly okay with that.

I don't think anyone can point with certainty to why the lesbian content between Tali and female Shepard was removed from ME2. There are a few theories in my mind, the last on the list would have to be "Bioware wanted it that way because that's just how Tali is". If you have played as female Shepard you would see she approaches you in much the same way and that there is definitely grounds for intimacy to develop. It actually feels rather jarring that the content was removed, since it actually makes Tali look bad IMO.

Yeah Tali definitely gets all giggly and cutely awkward with Fem!Shep too, and yet it doesn't go anywhere. Though I still picture my Fem!Shep and her as really close friends (my Shepard's love interest is still Liara anyway, I was sorta going after Kelly but... complications of plot twist happened )

[danman2424]

BrianWilly wrote...

It's not confusing. It's just flat-out inaccurate. Shepard's gender, race, appearance, background, skillset, morality, likes and dislikes, spirituality, and choice between more than ten romances in the two games are all customizable by the player. It's very clearly not a third-person narrative in that sense.

That's fine, but his fetishes and/or preferences in the bedroom are not.

Also, most of the choices you make still lead you down the same path. Most of the choices only serve to help with the illusion that you are shaping the world and deciding what your character is, and ultimately, the lack of broad choice allows the game to take a more cinematic approach than other Bioware games have been capable of.  You really aren't shaping as much as you think you are.

[didymos1120]

tmelange wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

tmelange wrote...
Asari's don't conform to the male/female dichotomy.

True enough.  They all look just like women.  In many, if not most, instances, ones attractive to the majority of straight human males.   I won't speak for the gay human females, but I imagine many find a lot to like there.

I think of asari as women, myself. I think it's clear they are intended to express the female titilation factor in the game. None of them are running around in construction boots and coveralls. I always shake my head when BW tries to gender neuter them when convenient, when asari as constructs exploit every female characteristic and trope in existence.

OK. Phew. You had me worried there.  It bugs me to no end when people go off into those logic contortions trying to prove Asari can't possibly be girls.  It downright mystifies me when BioWare does it, 'cause I damn well know they know that's nonsense.