7455 réponses à ce sujet

[tyddrwsau]

Em23 wrote...

 I think games like this are an excellent opportunity to expose people to a world free from sexism, racism, homophobia etc so they can learn how meaningless such prejudices are and how there's no need for any of it. 

These baseless, bigoted views are embedded in kids by their parents when they're too young to think for themselves and take what their parents say for granted.

An RPG should promote a world of tolerance and acceptance (while blowing stuff up and killing bad guys) because it can.

This is why I believe the mass effect universe should have gay/lesbian people in it . It may controversial and displease some people, but it is the right thing to do - for the sake those people it displeases as well.

Peace be with you.

It's a time-honoured element of science fiction to envision a future where we have moved past our less noble social traits to a more enlightened form. I rather like that the Mass Effect universe is grittier and darker than other adaptations of the genre that envision an enlightened utopia, where humans seem to have transcended racism but replaced it with xenophobia (for some) and squabbling with the Council races for dominance/relevance on the galactic stage. It would have been more clever for the Mass Effect team to include same-sex romance as a no-big-deal gameplay element, and gave us the fictional filter of insinuations of "alien lover" as a way to look sideways at relational prejudice.

[LebatomiBeni]

xDarkicex wrote...

The blatant not caring about peoples lives and just his whole demeanor really screams straight dude.

And then Bioware decides to make up for Zaeed's lack of dialogue wheel by making him romanceable by MShep in ME3. Bromance indeed.

Lightice_av wrote...
 
I don't know about "should";
prejudices can also be studied by showing them in games, and dealing
with them.
Still, the Mass Effect universe seems to have passed over
traditional prejudices over entirely new ones, brought on by the
contact with the alien species. There isn't a slightest hint of
homophobia shown in Ascension towards Hendel Mitra, or in the
games towards FemShep who takes interest in other ladies.
It would
be nice if the game developers followed the standards of the world they
are writing about, though...

Don't have my book anywhere near me. Is Hendel the one who was indirectly that little biotic girl's caretaker? Kind of, sort of the boss of the program they had going on and who everyone speculated was homosexual?

Kinda off-topic: I sure would like to see novel characters in the game. Like Anderson meeting Kahlee again.

Modifié par LebatomiBeni, 24 mars 2010 - 02:20 .

[FataliTensei]

LebatomiBeni wrote...

xDarkicex wrote...

The blatant not caring about peoples lives and just his whole demeanor really screams straight dude.

And then Bioware decides to make up for Zaeed's lack of dialogue wheel by making him romanceable by MShep in ME3. Bromance indeed.

Lightice_av wrote...
 
I don't know about "should";
prejudices can also be studied by showing them in games, and dealing
with them.
Still, the Mass Effect universe seems to have passed over
traditional prejudices over entirely new ones, brought on by the
contact with the alien species. There isn't a slightest hint of
homophobia shown in Ascension towards Hendel Mitra, or in the
games towards FemShep who takes interest in other ladies.
It would
be nice if the game developers followed the standards of the world they
are writing about, though...

Don't have my book anywhere near me. Is Hendel the one who was indirectly that little biotic girl's caretaker? Kind of, sort of the boss of the program they had going on and who everyone speculated was homosexual?

Kinda off-topic: I sure would like to see novel characters in the game. Like Anderson meeting Kahlee again.

Yeah Hendel is the big security cheif guy and he's Gillian's guardian(sort-of) and yeah Kahlee mentions like 3 times with certainty that he's gay, the two seemto be pretty close friends so one would think he would have mentioned it a some point to her

[Mimaiselphenai]

Collider wrote...

I highly dislike the idea of making every character bisexual. Let's have some diversity, most people in reality are not bisexual, most prefer the opposite sex. Just have new gay/bi characters in ME3 and everyone is happy.

See, I don't consider it as straight/gay/bisexual. Ultimately every character you can possibly have a romance with is attracted to Shepard and no one else. And as someone mentioned before, Shepard is supposed to be "distilled awesome." A galactic icon, a hero. An unmatched warrior on the battlefield. A slick negotiator. Savior of the entire galaxy. And the list goes on. Don't you think that kind of transcends the gender barrier just a little?

[Ryzaki]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Collider wrote...

I highly dislike the idea of making every character bisexual. Let's have some diversity, most people in reality are not bisexual, most prefer the opposite sex. Just have new gay/bi characters in ME3 and everyone is happy.

See, I don't consider it as straight/gay/bisexual. Ultimately every character you can possibly have a romance with is attracted to Shepard and no one else. And as someone mentioned before, Shepard is supposed to be "distilled awesome." A galactic icon, a hero. An unmatched warrior on the battlefield. A slick negotiator. Savior of the entire galaxy. And the list goes on. Don't you think that kind of transcends the gender barrier just a little?

Shep's not distilled awesome.
Shep's a mega kill it with fire mega Sue/Stu. <_<
I'm half surprised Saren didn't want to bang Shep.
Seriously though I never thought I'd see the day there was a bigger Stu/Sue than Darth Revan. I was wrong.
Anyways. Everyone <3 Shep.
Yes even if they are straight/gay
It doesn't matter.
Shep is that much of a mega Stu.
So much a Stu that someone would leave their family behind just to follow Shep's awesomeness.
Would probably kill their babies if Shep told them so.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2010 - 07:50 .

[Mimaiselphenai]

Ryzaki wrote...



I'm half surprised Saren didn't want to bang Shep.

Too busy getting banged by Sovereign.

[Ryzaki]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...



I'm half surprised Saren didn't want to bang Shep.

Too busy getting banged by Sovereign.

Honestly though if Shep manages to send the reapers back in ME3 with the power of friendship or love I"m going to gag.
Shep: Let's all work together guys! (Of course this is a paragon) Or:  "I love you X! Don't sacrifice your life on the convient bomb to save us but you for some reason need to activate it manually!!!!"
Or some undiscovered alien species that happens to be smart enough to know what to do about the reapers just happens to come across Shepard who is able to charm/intimidate them into helping them build some magical bomb (or a BFG milage may vary) to blow the reapers to bits. <_< "Hey why didn't anyone else find them?" Because they weren't Shepard that's why.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2010 - 08:06 .

[The Uncanny]

Ryzaki wrote...

Honestly though if Shep manages to send the reapers back in ME3 with the power of friendship or love I"m going to gag.

"Quarians! Geth! Krogan! Rachni! Can't we all just get along and feel the wuv? :wub::wub:

Super Space Friends ACTIVATE! Yay!"

[Collider]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Collider wrote...

I highly dislike the idea of making every character bisexual. Let's have some diversity, most people in reality are not bisexual, most prefer the opposite sex. Just have new gay/bi characters in ME3 and everyone is happy.

See, I don't consider it as straight/gay/bisexual.

If they are romanceable by both genders, they are bisexual. Period. The problem with "Shepard and no one else" is that we have no indication of this with any LIs.

Modifié par Collider, 24 mars 2010 - 08:10 .

[Ryzaki]

The Uncanny wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Honestly though if Shep manages to send the reapers back in ME3 with the power of friendship or love I"m going to gag.

"Quarians! Geth! Krogan! Rachni! Can't we all just get along and feel the wuv? :wub::wub:

Super Space Friends ACTIVATE! Yay!"

That's exactly what I fear.

And all of a sudden teh power of FRIENDSHIP allows them to build a BFG that is the strongest weapon EVA to push the reapers back (and/or destroy them for good) and everyone is going to be all huggles and kisses and BFFs afterwards.

Ugh.

And somehow this technology will completely dissappear the next time they want to start a war until the next group of FRIENDSHIP FOREVA group comes along to unite them.

*It helps if you read eveything in all caps with a high pitched sing song voice that drips with sweetness and cavities.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2010 - 08:19 .

[Mimaiselphenai]

Collider wrote...

If they are romanceable by both genders, they are bisexual. Period. The problem with "Shepard and no one else" is that we have no indication of this with any LIs.

No indication? Who else do the NPCs romance during the course of the games other than Shepard? It's not like every squad member in the game is looking for love. Maybe they just respect Shepard so much that they're willing to take the leap. It doesn't have to mean that a male/male pairing would immediately end up with the two sword fighting in the nearest restroom, but I don't think an "intimate bond" would be out of the question regardless of gender, cerebral or otherwise.

[The Uncanny]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Honestly though if Shep manages to send the reapers back in ME3 with the power of friendship or love I"m going to gag.

"Quarians! Geth! Krogan! Rachni! Can't we all just get along and feel the wuv? :wub::wub:

Super Space Friends ACTIVATE! Yay!"

That's exactly what I fear.

And all of a sudden teh power for FRIENDSHIP allows them to build a BFG that is the strongest weapon EVA to push the reapers back (and/or destroy them for good) and everyone is going to be all huggles and kisses and BFFs afterwards.

Ugh.

Yup. On the one hand I like the character of Legion, on the other the whole 'misunderstood Geth' thing had me thinking - where is this going? Group hugs all round?

[Ryzaki]

The Uncanny wrote...

Yup. On the one hand I like the character of Legion, on the other the whole 'misunderstood Geth' thing had me thinking - where is this going? Group hugs all round?

LOL tis only the beginning of the power of FRIENDSHIP!

What's next the genophage gets cured and the Krogan magically turn into a peaceful loving species thanks to the friendship bond between Wrex and Shep and grew into an intelligent, productive species?

The humans showed us how to love! They showed us how to treat our fellow beings! They showed us another side to our bestial nature!

^The above happens either before the end of ME3 or 5 years afterwards.

Edit: Any anyone who wants to know my loathing for the power of friendship its because of bloody Tea from Yugioh.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2010 - 08:27 .

[Collider]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Collider wrote...

If they are romanceable by both genders, they are bisexual. Period. The problem with "Shepard and no one else" is that we have no indication of this with any LIs.

No indication? Who else do the NPCs romance during the course of the games other than Shepard?

Why would it be during the course of the game? A lot of them have had previous engagements.

Kaidan - Liked that one girl at school, dried dating female doctors on the citadel.
Jacob - Miranda.
Miranda - Jacob.
Garrus - that female Turian.
Thane - his wife.
Jack - has definitely had sex before.
Samara - Has been with other people before.
Morinth - Has been with other people before.
Kelly - Has clearly been with other people before.

It's not like every squad member in the game is looking for love. Maybe they just respect Shepard so much that they're willing to take the leap. It doesn't have to mean that a male/male pairing would immediately end up with the two sword fighting in the nearest restroom, but I don't think an "intimate bond" would be out of the question regardless of gender, cerebral or otherwise.

Most of time this isn't even the case. It's hard to love someone romantically if they aren't the same gender that you are attracted to. Nor should people be expected to do stuff like this.

Edit: In addition, I was talking about every character being bisexual. Every character can like both genders and cite that Shepard is the only they like? Uh, yea. That's even more farfetched.

Modifié par Collider, 24 mars 2010 - 08:31 .

[Mimaiselphenai]

No indication? Who else do the NPCs romance during the course of the games other than Shepard?
Why would it be during the course of the game? A lot of them have had previous engagements.

Kaidan - Liked that one girl at school, dried dating female doctors on the citadel.
Jacob - Miranda.
Miranda - Jacob.
Garrus - that female Turian.
Thane - his wife.
Jack - has definitely had sex before.

I never claimed the characters were virgins. Obviously they've had previous relationships. Hence, during the course of the game. As in, when Shepard is part of the equation.

Most of time this isn't even the case. It's hard to love someone romantically if they aren't the same gender that you are attracted to. Nor should people be expected to do stuff like this.

Yeah, in realistic human society that may be the case. No one has ever met a person like Shepard (much less, you know, traveled through space meeting intelligent alien races) in real life. You can't make the comparison.

Edit: In addition, I was talking about every character being bisexual. Every character can like both genders and cite that Shepard is the only they like? Uh, yea. That's even more farfetched.

I'm not saying that every character should be bisexual. I'm saying that being in the presence of someone as iconic as Commander Shepard might make people look past their physical attractions. Especially if Shepard genuinely cares for them, watches out for them, protects them. Goes above and beyond to keep them alive in impossible situations.

[Arik7]

Collider wrote...

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Collider wrote...

I highly dislike the idea of making every character bisexual. Let's have some diversity, most people in reality are not bisexual, most prefer the opposite sex. Just have new gay/bi characters in ME3 and everyone is happy.

See, I don't consider it as straight/gay/bisexual.

If they are romanceable by both genders, they are bisexual. Period. The problem with "Shepard and no one else" is that we have no indication of this with any LIs.

They are not bisexual, they are fictional.  A gay/bisexual hero could have a slightly different story, and possibly slightly different companions than a straight hero.  Players' enjoyement should be the overriding factor in these decisions. It's not a book, nor a movie.  The more customizations we are offered, the better.

[Collider]

Arik7 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Collider wrote...

I highly dislike the idea of making every character bisexual. Let's have some diversity, most people in reality are not bisexual, most prefer the opposite sex. Just have new gay/bi characters in ME3 and everyone is happy.

See, I don't consider it as straight/gay/bisexual.

If they are romanceable by both genders, they are bisexual. Period. The problem with "Shepard and no one else" is that we have no indication of this with any LIs.

They are not bisexual, they are fictional.  A gay/bisexual hero could have a slightly different story, and possibly slightly different companions than a straight hero.  Players' enjoyement should be the overriding factor in these decisions. It's not a book, nor a movie.  The more customizations we are offered, the better.

Let's customize whether Saren is a hero or villain. Let's make the Reapers pacifist. You need some consistency and foundation for a story. And quite literally, if someone is attracted to both genders, they are bisexual. There's no arguing about that, obviously I'm aware that these characters are fictional, I don't need to be reminded. Part of MY enjoyment - and reasonably most people's - is seeing an intelligent, consistent storyline with consistent characters.

[Mimaiselphenai]

Collider wrote...
Part of MY enjoyment - and reasonably most people's - is seeing an intelligent, consistent storyline with consistent characters.

How would they be inconsistent if you're the one playing the game and dictating how "consistent" they are? At least in the sense you're concerned about.

[Collider]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

No indication? Who else do the NPCs romance during the course of the games other than Shepard?
Why would it be during the course of the game? A lot of them have had previous engagements.

Kaidan - Liked that one girl at school, dried dating female doctors on the citadel.
Jacob - Miranda.
Miranda - Jacob.
Garrus - that female Turian.
Thane - his wife.
Jack - has definitely had sex before.

I never claimed the characters were virgins. Obviously they've had previous relationships. Hence, during the course of the game. As in, when Shepard is part of the equation.

I don't see how it doesn't factor in. It goes to show that that they've liked people of whatever gender already, prior to Shepard.

Yeah, in realistic human society that may be the case. No one has ever met a person like Shepard (much less, you know, traveled through space meeting intelligent alien races) in real life. You can't make the comparison.

Of course I can. Mass Effect is a video game mimicking a lot of real life aspects and elements, if everything was chaos and none of the characters had any human characteristics (personality, etc) would we even want to play the game?

I'm not saying that every character should be bisexual. I'm saying that being in the presence of someone as iconic as Commander Shepard might make people look past their physical attractions.

This is dependant on the character themselves, not everyone is going to fall in love with Shepard regardless of gender just because of Shepard's "icon." I couldn't care less if there were bisexual characters in ME3, the distinction is that I disagree with them all being bisexual just for the minority who want it.

[Blackveldt]

Arik7 wrote...
They are not bisexual, they are fictional.  A gay/bisexual hero could have a slightly different story, and possibly slightly different companions than a straight hero.  Players' enjoyement should be the overriding factor in these decisions. It's not a book, nor a movie.  The more customizations we are offered, the better.

Why would a non-heterosexual protagonist have different companions?

[Collider]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

Collider wrote...
Part of MY enjoyment - and reasonably most people's - is seeing an intelligent, consistent storyline with consistent characters.

How would they be inconsistent if you're the one playing the game and dictating how "consistent" they are? At least in the sense you're concerned about.

What people have been suggesting - I know this for certain - are characters "being" "straight" or "bisexual" or "gay" in different playthroughs. Let's have consistent characters here, part of the appeal of Mass Effect is seeing how choices affect an otherwise fixed universe.

[Collider]

Blackveldt wrote...

Arik7 wrote...
They are not bisexual, they are fictional.  A gay/bisexual hero could have a slightly different story, and possibly slightly different companions than a straight hero.  Players' enjoyement should be the overriding factor in these decisions. It's not a book, nor a movie.  The more customizations we are offered, the better.

Why would a non-heterosexual protagonist have different companions?

I agree completely - I disagree with the notion that sexual orientation is like this or should be like that. Other than liking the same sex, there is NOTHING concretely different from a gay person to a straight person.

[Mimaiselphenai]

I don't think you're not getting it. I'd pick through your post and quote you, but this is just going to go in circles.

[Collider]

If you want to continue, you're going to have to clarify. For the record, I've no problem with bisexuals in the game, I just disagree with having multiple romance interests ALL bisexual.

[Ryzaki]

I don't think most people want all romances bisexual which seems to be whatCollider is getting at for some reason.
Edit: Nvm

Though Woo's words make me think there's not going to be a M/M option in the ME series but rather in a future title and the only true F/F will be FemShepxLiara

It does make the most sense sadly.

I wonder what future games set in the ME series will be like though?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2010 - 08:47 .