7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Collider wrote...

Really? You seem to have said that most of it is genetics. We've made leaps and bounds in genetics already, even able to prolong the life of test animals by altering their genes. If we were able to determine that sexual orientation is largely genetic to begin with, it stands to reason that we may be able to determine or influence sexual orientation in the future.

Interesting. I don't see that as being a bad or good thing. Being able to design your child the way you want it would have some interesting implications on human development.

Of course not everyone will be able to avoid such a costly procedure (and at first it will be costly) I wonder if it will ever reach the level of people constantly using it?


ON topic of ME:  Too bad Shep couldn't be a designer baby. Opening screen could have been epic with us as the "mother" outlining what we wanted our baby Shep to be good at and how we wanted him to develop before playing him.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2010 - 09:42 .

[Lightice_av]

I think this is going again a bit far from Mass Effect-related stuff...

[Mimaiselphenai]

[quote]Collider wrote...

Who says all there is to genders are the body? Although not need be, there are often hormonal and personality differences between genders. Quite literally, anyone attacted to both genders is bisexual.[quote]

One could argue that those differences in gender are a product of society, though.
[quote]
[/quote]
[quote]I don't know why you raise it up though. I'm not saying that there can't be any squad mates open to both genders. I'm saying that all of them being open to both genders (especially all of them with the reasoning that Shepard is Shepard) would be ridiculous.[/quote]

I don't entirely disagree that every character being attracted to Shepard would be a bad idea, but it would, in my mind, be feasable. That's kind of why I didn't want to continue discussing it earlier, since if you feel differently it's a bit hard for either of us to be swayed. It's a matter of perception.

[Collider]

Ryzaki wrote...

Collider wrote...

Really? You seem to have said that most of it is genetics. We've made leaps and bounds in genetics already, even able to prolong the life of test animals by altering their genes. If we were able to determine that sexual orientation is largely genetic to begin with, it stands to reason that we may be able to determine or influence sexual orientation in the future.

Interesting. I don't see that as being a bad or good thing. Being able to design your child the way you want it would have some interesting implications on human development.

Of course not everyone will be able to avoid such a costly procedure (and at first it will be costly) I wonder if it will ever reach the level of people constantly using it?

I fully see people as doing this. We already have parents circumcising their children, both male and female, at birth or later in life. I'm not sure if choosing your child's sexuality would be wrong, but I think it's preferable to let it happen naturally. Unless...it happens to be a country where homosexuality is vilified. In that case, ends may justify the means. I'm referring to countries which have punishments for being homosexual. I believe several countries in Africa and the Middle East fit that bill.

[Mimaiselphenai]

Collider wrote...

Who says all there is to genders are the body? Although not need be, there are often hormonal and personality differences between genders. Quite literally, anyone attacted to both genders is bisexual.

One could argue that those differences in gender are a product of society, though.

I don't know why you raise it up though. I'm not saying that there can't be any squad mates open to both genders. I'm saying that all of them being open to both genders (especially all of them with the reasoning that Shepard is Shepard) would be ridiculous.

I don't entirely disagree that every character being attracted to Shepard would be a bad idea, but it would, in my mind, be feasable. That's kind of why I didn't want to continue discussing it earlier, since if you feel differently it's a bit hard for either of us to be swayed. It's a matter of perception.

[Ryzaki]

Collider wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Collider wrote...

Really? You seem to have said that most of it is genetics. We've made leaps and bounds in genetics already, even able to prolong the life of test animals by altering their genes. If we were able to determine that sexual orientation is largely genetic to begin with, it stands to reason that we may be able to determine or influence sexual orientation in the future.

Interesting. I don't see that as being a bad or good thing. Being able to design your child the way you want it would have some interesting implications on human development.

Of course not everyone will be able to avoid such a costly procedure (and at first it will be costly) I wonder if it will ever reach the level of people constantly using it?

I fully see people as doing this. We already have parents circumcising their children, both male and female, at birth or later in life. I'm not sure if choosing your child's sexuality would be wrong, but I think it's preferable to let it happen naturally. Unless...it happens to be a country where homosexuality is vilified. In that case, ends may justify the means. I'm referring to countries which have punishments for being homosexual. I believe several countries in Africa and the Middle East fit that bill.

Yup. I'd probably be preferable to making the children straight then having them gay in a country that makes them a criminal.

Anyways. ME: That would be an awesome opening for the next game. "Ms. Shepard. Which attributes did you want your child to have?" 

[Collider]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...
One could argue that those differences in gender are a product of society, though.

A lot of it, a lot of it isn't. Humans are sexually dimorphic. Although it would be unjust to classify every man or every women as a number of things, there are some differences due to hormones and survival instincts. An example? Men may place more emphasis on aesthetic appearance whereas women may place more emphasis on the man's ability to provide.

I don't entirely disagree that every character being attracted to Shepard would be a bad idea, but it would, in my mind, be feasable. That's kind of why I didn't want to continue discussing it earlier, since if you feel differently it's a bit hard for either of us to be swayed. It's a matter of perception.

Anything is feasible. The question is whether said thing that is feasible is tasteful. I would argue that having everyone bisexual isn't ideal. And it would be quite boring for me.

Modifié par Collider, 24 mars 2010 - 09:45 .

[Nordic Einar]

Collider wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Collider wrote...

Really? You seem to have said that most of it is genetics. We've made leaps and bounds in genetics already, even able to prolong the life of test animals by altering their genes. If we were able to determine that sexual orientation is largely genetic to begin with, it stands to reason that we may be able to determine or influence sexual orientation in the future.

Interesting. I don't see that as being a bad or good thing. Being able to design your child the way you want it would have some interesting implications on human development.

Of course not everyone will be able to avoid such a costly procedure (and at first it will be costly) I wonder if it will ever reach the level of people constantly using it?

I fully see people as doing this. We already have parents circumcising their children, both male and female, at birth or later in life. I'm not sure if choosing your child's sexuality would be wrong, but I think it's preferable to let it happen naturally. Unless...it happens to be a country where homosexuality is vilified. In that case, ends may justify the means. I'm referring to countries which have punishments for being homosexual. I believe several countries in Africa and the Middle East fit that bill.

Yeah, because clearly genetically altering black people to make them white in countries where black people are lynched is totally reasonable. Oh wait, it isn't at all. But with homosexuality, totally okay.

[Collider]

Nordic Einar wrote...
Yeah, because clearly genetically altering black people to make them white in countries where black people are lynched is totally reasonable. Oh wait, it isn't at all. But with homosexuality, totally okay.

You're jumping the gun here. I never said that skin color would be the exception. Sometimes parents need to make hard decisions to protect their kids.

[Darkstar87uk]

Smithers supports same sex romance

Modifié par Darkstar87uk, 24 mars 2010 - 09:48 .

[Nordic Einar]

Collider wrote...

Nordic Einar wrote...
Yeah, because clearly genetically altering black people to make them white in countries where black people are lynched is totally reasonable. Oh wait, it isn't at all. But with homosexuality, totally okay.

You're jumping the gun here. I never said that skin color would be the exception. Sometimes parents need to make hard decisions to protect their kids.

The entire premise of this discussion is ridiculous. Instead of righting injustice we should conform to it? Here's how parents can protect their kids; change the culture they live in.

[Collider]

Nordic Einar wrote...
The entire premise of this discussion is ridiculous. Instead of righting injustice we should conform to it? Here's how parents can protect their kids; change the culture they live in.

Don't be ridiculous. You can't change the culture you live in with the snap of your thumbs. I'm certain plenty of people would have done so during Apartheid and Jim Crow, among other examples of injustice - without being jailed or killed if it were so easy as you seem to make it. Culture is much more dynamic then asking someone to change it. If the current environment of the country they live in is deadly to homosexuals or people with x skin color, why not spare your child the trouble? There's nothing inherently valuable to any sexuality or any skin color.

[Mimaiselphenai]

Collider wrote...


A lot of it, a lot of it isn't. Humans are sexually dimorphic. Although it would be unjust to classify every man or every women as a number of things, there are some differences due to hormones and survival instincts. An example? Men may place more emphasis on aesthetic appearance whereas women may place more emphasis on the man's ability to provide.

Again, it could be argued that it's a result of society's influence. As in, it's generally not socially accepted that men look to women as the provider. It's seen in society as a "weakness." Just like a man being feminine or "sensitive." That has nothing to do with hormones. It's just a common viewpoint that's been dragged kicking and screaming all the way from the beginning of human history.

Anything is feasible. The question is whether said thing that is feasible is tasteful. I would argue that having everyone bisexual isn't ideal. And it would be quite boring for me.

Well, when I say feasable, I mean reasonably so. If you disagree, I don't see any way to convince you otherwise. That's just how you're wired.

[xDarkicex]

mrfoo1 wrote...

xDarkicex wrote...

Collider wrote...

Blackveldt wrote...

Hm, well, on the subject of bisexualism in-game...having every character be bisexual would be contrived. Simple as that. It does not represent actual statistics of human sexuality; it is merely more marketable. It also limits backlash from both pro and anti-GLBT activism. Does this make it realistic? Not necessarily. Safer? Yes.

Personally, if every NPC was bisexual, I'd be utterly bored. Finding a nice balance and variety for the game provides the most entertainment in my opinion. Even if I can't romance a character because s/he is straight/gay, I kind of like that, because then it adds more depth and character, or at least something different. I like different.

I agree. We need diverse characters, characters with qualities not everyone will like. Take Udina for instance - people love to hate him. Why? I like to think it's because he's a great character. He's a shrewd bastard. It would be much better to have a bisexual or gay male character than just making every bisexual. How boring would that be.

Why would having every character be bi be boring to you? that is hogs wash.
If you where gay, not saying you are or aren't but if you where doing you think you would like to experience a LI with ever character too see the new storyline and see the differences in character development?
Having only 1-2 gay characters is boring just like only having 1-2 straight options is boring if you are really a straight or gay person who will only be playing a straight or gay character, I mean how many playthroughs can you go With the same too LI before it gets boring and you skip LI's altogether?

I for one Do not mind all Bi character because it keeps everyone happy and it adds much more variety to my playthroughs, who cares about real statistics this is a game not real life.

Writters. I would imagine writters care an awfully large amount about the realism in the content they create.

Really I must have missed that in Video game 101 while jumping across mushrooms or in ME or any other RPGs Case being one character that can slaughter 1,000 on 1,000 of characters, that alone is unrealistic not being a science guy I can't really say what tech in ME is theoretically possible but I am pretty sure most of it is not possible right now, the games a fantasy if they wanted a real life like game it would have been one death one playthrough, no ability to save try again, In intergalactic Space travel and so on, and about bring a person back to life shepard Choked to death do you know how much damage to brain cells lack of oxygen can do? not to mention Falling through a planets Atmosphere would burn you alive they would be hard pressed to find any of you left.
What about breathing in space or radiation protection?

All I am saying is this is a fantasy and Video game writes don't care about reality as much as you say, if they did we wouldn't see the crazy things we do in video games which would be a shame video games are a way to excape reality.

[SimonTheFrog]

I think BioWare should make all characters potentially bisexual but with various persuasion levels.



In order to get people romanced you need to pass their "persuasion" check, so to speak.



Your "persuasion"-points are a mixture of:

Good looks (a complicated algorithm derives the number from the facial features you created in the editor. Some eye-shapes are definitly lowering the number, mismatch of hair- and brow colour likewise. Symmatrical features are good on the other hand. Scars are only good on male... like i said, its complicated)

High Paragade points. Undecisive people have lower chance to get high romance checks.

Certain actions/interrupts (like saving puppies from a burning veterinary clinic) will increase the stats for the different genders.



Bottom line: if you have low persuasion points you only can romance Miranda as male and Jacob as female. The higher the points, more options are available. First Asari, then other species. Then Miranda and Jacob turn bisexual (independent of whether they are normally attracted to the same sex, they just CAN'T say no to high persuasive Shepard) and others following. Samara, for example will need very high persuasion points too... Kelly not so much.



Bottom bottom line: i'm just joking

[Nordic Einar]

Collider - I'd like to continue this conversation with you but it's not really on topic here. Check your pms

Modifié par Nordic Einar, 24 mars 2010 - 10:10 .

[xDarkicex]

mrfoo1 wrote...

xDarkicex wrote...
Really I must have missed that in Video
game 101 while jumping across mushrooms or in ME or any other RPGs Case
being one character that can slaughter 1,000 on 1,000 of characters,
that alone is unrealistic not being a science guy I can't really say
what tech in ME is theoretically possible but I am pretty sure most of
it is not possible right now, the games a fantasy if they wanted a real
life like game it would have been one death one playthrough, no ability
to save try again, In intergalactic Space travel and so on, and about
bring a person back to life shepard Choked to death do you know how much
damage to brain cells lack of oxygen can do? not to mention Falling
through a planets Atmosphere would burn you alive they would be hard
pressed to find any of you left.
What about breathing in space or
radiation protection?

All I am saying is this is a fantasy and
Video game writes don't care about reality as much as you say, if they
did we wouldn't see the crazy things we do in video games which would be
a shame video games are a way to excape reality.

There
are several scientific ways to explain how re-entry of an
atmospher could be survived. Would they work, aboslulty not. But that
doesn't mean the applicable means aren't there. Writters do not by any
means just make some random concepts up. Regardless of the platform that
written material is used in. Are there adjustments made for video
games, yes, but you can't just throw away the conceptualization
process's under the "video games aren't real" metaphore. Most often the
so called fantasy you say is in video games are related to the history
of the world and very real scientific theories. 

Even in ME there is cultural development of the species. If ME is only a fantasy video game where realism isn't a factor why go through the effort of creating cultured backgrounds for a species that explains why and where they are?

To make it interesting, to add depth, its good story telling doesn't make it real or even close to real.
I would love to hear how a person could live through reentry to the atmosphere and live and with an obvious lose of air as well.
space ships have special thermal plates to protect them from reentry, how is a person supposed to live and clearly from the video it show he caught on fire, furthermore jumping from a 15 story building can and will kill you breaking every bone in your body so lets say some magical way that you only get slightly chard from reentry into planets atmosphere how are you supposed to live from falling out of the sky on impact you would make a creator flattening your body making Pancake shepard

[SirGladiator]

I think the earlier idea about 'persuasion points' was pretty good, at least in a general sense. Right now romances are too easy, and I always wondered why more games don't use your 'persuasion' or 'charisma' statistics in the romance department. JE did, to a very limited degree, but most games don't at all, and really they should. If they wanted to, say, make Miranda harder for FemSheps than MaleSheps, or Jack harder for MaleSheps than FemSheps, that would be pretty reasonable. Im somebody who likes a challenge, I still remember the days of the BG2 Imoen romance mod, and one of the things that made that one so great was that it was actually a challenge. So anything that simultaneously opens up the romances that I want to play, AND makes them a bit of a challenge to achieve at the same time, I would be totally for .

[Collider]

SirGladiator wrote...
I think the earlier idea about 'persuasion points' was pretty good, at least in a general sense.

It's a terrible idea, especially in regards to sexuality. Have the characters have set sexualities, for god's sakes. You can't mold someone's orientation in real life, let's not allow you in Mass Effect.

[Ryzaki]

Collider wrote...

SirGladiator wrote...
I think the earlier idea about 'persuasion points' was pretty good, at least in a general sense.

It's a terrible idea, especially in regards to sexuality. Have the characters have set sexualities, for god's sakes. You can't mold someone's orientation in real life, let's not allow you in Mass Effect.

Eh if you take the sexuality portion out of it sounds like a decent idea. Romances should be harder to achieve.

[xDarkicex]

Collider wrote...

SirGladiator wrote...
I think the earlier idea about 'persuasion points' was pretty good, at least in a general sense.

It's a terrible idea, especially in regards to sexuality. Have the characters have set sexualities, for god's sakes. You can't mold someone's orientation in real life, let's not allow you in Mass Effect.

Not completely true, I know gay bottoms that love straight boys and try extremely hard to get with straight guys if only for one night.

*disclaimer not saying everyone's like this only two gays I know, and I know a lot more then two so yeah just saying it is possible to get with a straight guy if only for a one time deal it is possible.

[Collider]

Ryzaki wrote...
Eh if you take the sexuality portion out of it sounds like a decent idea. Romances should be harder to achieve.

Why? What is gained from having the romance be a tricky endeavor that requires a walkthrough? I'm fine with making it a little harder, but I draw the line on having it dependant on charm or intimidate. Especially since charm and intimidate have been bastardized in ME2. If you have too many renegade points, you can't charm in ME2. Vice versa with paragon points. Apparently I can't tell the reporter that she's being a ****** on the Citadel because I have too many paragon points.