7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Collider wrote...
What are my true colors? Like I said, direct your anger towards someone who deserves it. This argument about Kaidan would not be any different had it been Ashley instead with a lesbian romance in ME3. I'm not trying to antagonize you, whereas you clearly were trying to troll with me with Tali (who has nothing to do with Kaidan).

Oh hate to break this to you. But you getting overly defensive over a fictional character is YOUR problem not me trolling you, get some thicker skin, and stop acting like pixels are actual people. "Oh noes she insulted a fictional character!" also I love how its trolling with Tali. Then does that not mean you're whole diatribe about Zevran was trolling? Bias trolling as well seeing as you never bothered to look beyond the surface of the character. <_<

That's still creating a new romance for a character that already has a romance. And it does not factor in the femsheps who killed Kaidan on Virmire. Still a smaller audience than just having a new gay or bisexual character in ME3. Like I said, I wouldn't be saying a word different than if it was Ashley instead of Kaidan that we were talking about. Don't get uppity with me and accuse me of arrogance.

Why? You're the one who accused people of being screaming children who couldn't deal with someone disagreeing with them slinging bull**** around. So its fine for you to make assumptions but not anyone else? 

Yes I conceded that you were right it is a smaller audience. Doesn't mean I have to care. There's bound to be a smaller audience that actually saved Wrex does that stop people from wanting him in ME3 no? So like yeah. People are free to have opinions that you don't agree with you realize? <_<


Yes I'm acting like a b**** now but only because you've successfully pissed me off.

Edit: You know what this is childish. I apologize if I offended you.

Anyways it makes far more sense to have Joker as the s/s LI because frankly more characters at this point is madness. We have far too many characters already.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 06:55 .

[Collider]

Ryzaki wrote...

Collider wrote...
What are my true colors? Like I said, direct your anger towards someone who deserves it. This argument about Kaidan would not be any different had it been Ashley instead with a lesbian romance in ME3. I'm not trying to antagonize you, whereas you clearly were trying to troll with me with Tali (who has nothing to do with Kaidan).

Oh hate to break this to you. But you getting overly defensive over a fictional character is YOUR problem not me trolling you, get some thicker skin, and stop acting like pixels are actual people. "Oh noes she insulted a fictional character!" also I love how its trolling with Tali. Then does that not mean you're whole diatribe about Zevran was trolling?

I'm not really being defensive. The Tali thing came out of nowhere and I could clearly see it was there just to annoy me. Whereas I've never tried to annoy you on purpose - aside from my response to you saying Tali should die, but you asked for it there. Basically, we both need to calm down and act like mature adults. I'm not trying to antagonize you nor have I ever personally insulted you prior. I don't have a negative opinion of you at all.

Why? You're the one who accused people of being screaming children who couldn't deal with someone disagreeing with them slinging bull**** around. So its fine for you to make assumptions but not anyone else? 

Yes I conceded that you were right it is a smaller audience. Doesn't mean I have to care. There's bound to be a smaller audience that actually saved Wrex does that stop people from wanting him in ME3 no? So like yeah. People are free to have opinions that you don't agree with you realize? <_<

When I have ever suggested people weren't free to have opinions? All I've been saying in this conversation was that there a smaller audience for returning characters having new romances than there is for new characters who are gay or bisexual.

Yes I'm acting like a b**** now but only because you've successfully pissed me off.

You're overreacting.

[Ryzaki]

Uh where do you live were this:

Collider wrote...

@ Ryzaki Um, how could you not agree with me? Having to play ME1, ME2, be male, and have Kaidan alive narrows the audience down versus a new gay or bisexual romance. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry.

I also see you're trying to push my buttons here. It's REALLY sad if you're so affected by me disagreeing that you want to test me. Poor baby can't except that someone disagrees with her ;_; Direct to your bull**** to the people who actually don't want same sex romances, not me.

isn't insulting? Must be an interesting place!

Ah how nice it is to pretend to be above other people isn't it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 06:57 .

[Collider]

Wittand25 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...
 If anything not allowing to start a Kaidan romance in ME3, for females atleast, would be a waste of resources because the majority of FemSheps did not persue the romance and some of those who did will still choose their ME2 romance over Kaidan.

That doesn't make sense. You don't lose resources from not doing something, silly. Use your brain.

Take your own advice and use your brain. You need a cutscene, several dialogscenes and more just for a pretty small part of the players. It is much more economical to use the cutscene and most of the dialog for a broader audience, by allowing a second shot at the romance than creating a completly new romance option.

That's for a smaller audience. That's where I'm getting at. Obviously, the romance in ME1 had the context of chasing Saren, nothing about the collectors and Cerberus. It's not like Shepard has met Kaidan or Ashley for the first time, ME3 will have the context of having been talked down to by them on Horizon. There is no reusing cutscenes - especially considering the graphical upgrade from ME1 to ME2. There is no reusing dialogue unless you want table scraps. The LGBT community would laugh it up if all they did was port ME1 dialogue to ME3. They deserve to have respectable romances, not table scraps.

It would not be economical in the way you describe to literally create a new romance for characters that have already been romanceable for a smaller audience than new characters.

[Wittand25]

Ryzaki and Collider, please continue your discussion with pm, because now you are simply bickering and worse getting off topic and endanger the thread to get closed and I dont believe either of you wants this to happen.

[Collider]

Ryzaki wrote...

Uh where do you live were this:

Collider wrote...

@ Ryzaki Um, how could you not agree with me? Having to play ME1, ME2, be male, and have Kaidan alive narrows the audience down versus a new gay or bisexual romance. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry.

I also see you're trying to push my buttons here. It's REALLY sad if you're so affected by me disagreeing that you want to test me. Poor baby can't except that someone disagrees with her ;_; Direct to your bull**** to the people who actually don't want same sex romances, not me.

isn't insulting? Must be an interesting place!

Ah how nice it is to pretend to be above other people isn't it.

I just said I never tried to insult or annoy you prior to that. I indeed never had. You tried to annoy me with Tali, so I do so in turn. That simple. It's rather childish of both of us to have done it, so I'd prefer to leave it in the past. If you had any doubts, I was not trying to annoy you with Zevran or Kaidan at all, so please be aware of that. You could switch Kaidan with Ashley and nothing I would say would be different.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Collider wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...
Ryzaki has a reasonable point, though. Even if only the 2 surviving LIs from ME1 are recruitable/encounterable, and, say, only half of the crew from ME2, you're still looking at a potential 7 possible in-depth PC/NPC encounters. Possibly as many as 12, of which between 1 and 5 will be romanceable/romanced. Adding to that number just seems insane, even if you limit them all to cameos.

Here's my point. There's a larger audience for M/M romances if the gay or bisexual character is a new one. Or someone who previously did not have a romance and could not die, like Joker. I know you and Ryzaki may want Kaidan as M/M, but these are the facts here. And I gurantee to you that Kaidan M/M in ME3 won't happen. Quote me on that if you want. I'm all for new male characters being bisexual or gay, but people are going to sorely disappointed if they expect existing characters to do a 180 and suddenly open themselves to the same sex.

I disagree heartily that it'd be a 180, but that's a difference in opinion. And unless you're a dev, you can keep your guarantee; I would have bet money that Garrus would never be a romance option but hey, that happened. If Kaidan m/m doesn't happen, I will be disappointed, though not quite so disappointed as I'll be if they exclude m/m yet again from the franchise while leaving f/f intact (necessary if they're going to finish the Liara romance).

As I said before, for me this is a 'if I say nothing I know nothing will happen' scenario. I can only put what I'd like to see out there. I have a tiny spark of hope that the devs will restore the ME1 m/m, if only for the final title in the trilogy. Otherwise, bring on a new character - though I'm still sympathetic to the idea that adding to the existing cast is insane.

[Wittand25]

Collider wrote...

It would not be economical in the way you describe to literally create a new romance for characters that have already been romanceable for a smaller audience than new characters.

If you romanced Kaidan in ME1 you will be able to continue the romance in ME3, this is as good as confirmed. Many of the lines of the Kaidan/Shepard romance in ME3 will be also useable for a romance that just started in ME3 and is not a carried over from ME1 so a Shepard/Kaidan romance would need less work and resources than a completly new LI.

[Collider]

Wittand25 wrote...

Collider wrote...

It would not be economical in the way you describe to literally create a new romance for characters that have already been romanceable for a smaller audience than new characters.

If you romanced Kaidan in ME1 you will be able to continue the romance in ME3, this is as good as confirmed.

Yep.

Many of the lines of the Kaidan/Shepard romance in ME3 will be also useable for a romance that just started in ME3 and is not a carried over from ME1 so a Shepard/Kaidan romance would need less work and resources than a completly new LI.

No, you are assuming things. I already said that ME3 has a different context than ME1. Porting dialogue would neither be tasteful nor appropriate. Kaidan got pissed off with Shepard on Horizon, there's far different from meeting Shepard for the first time in ME1 and the Normandy. Again, it's for a smaller audience, and at most you'd only be able to use little snippets of dialogue that don't have to do with overall plot. Conceivably, Kaidan would have to - short of amnesia - remember that Shepard spent time with him tracking down Saren, then died and went with Cerberus, and now is here with him again. His dialogue in ME1 will not be the same as ME3.

[Collider]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

Collider wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...
Ryzaki has a reasonable point, though. Even if only the 2 surviving LIs from ME1 are recruitable/encounterable, and, say, only half of the crew from ME2, you're still looking at a potential 7 possible in-depth PC/NPC encounters. Possibly as many as 12, of which between 1 and 5 will be romanceable/romanced. Adding to that number just seems insane, even if you limit them all to cameos.

Here's my point. There's a larger audience for M/M romances if the gay or bisexual character is a new one. Or someone who previously did not have a romance and could not die, like Joker. I know you and Ryzaki may want Kaidan as M/M, but these are the facts here. And I gurantee to you that Kaidan M/M in ME3 won't happen. Quote me on that if you want. I'm all for new male characters being bisexual or gay, but people are going to sorely disappointed if they expect existing characters to do a 180 and suddenly open themselves to the same sex.

I disagree heartily that it'd be a 180, but that's a difference in opinion.

It is a 180. Male and female shepard can act in the same ways, yet Ashley can't be romanced by female shepard in ME1, but then she's attracted to females in ME3?

And unless you're a dev, you can keep your guarantee;

I'm just being sensical here.

I would have bet money that Garrus would never be a romance option but hey, that happened.

This is different. Garrus was never romanceable in ME1 to begin with. We had no idea whether he liked men or women. Whereas Kaidan is romanceable by female Shepards in ME1. So Bioware would suddenly have Kaidan romanceable by men in ME3. What would the justification be? Do you honestly think they're going to go into sexuality politics and have Kaidan say he was unsure Shepard would feel anything for a man? When has this ever occured in Bioware games? Zevran flirted freely with male and female wardens.

As I said before, for me this is a 'if I say nothing I know nothing will happen' scenario. I can only put what I'd like to see out there. I have a tiny spark of hope that the devs will restore the ME1 m/m, if only for the final title in the trilogy. Otherwise, bring on a new character - though I'm still sympathetic to the idea that adding to the existing cast is insane.

I think you should push for new characters or characters who haven't had a romance, not existing characters who already have their romance for the opposite gender.

[Wittand25]

Collider wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Collider wrote...

It would not be economical in the way you describe to literally create a new romance for characters that have already been romanceable for a smaller audience than new characters.

If you romanced Kaidan in ME1 you will be able to continue the romance in ME3, this is as good as confirmed.

Yep.

Many of the lines of the Kaidan/Shepard romance in ME3 will be also useable for a romance that just started in ME3 and is not a carried over from ME1 so a Shepard/Kaidan romance would need less work and resources than a completly new LI.

No, you are assuming things. I already said that ME3 has a different context than ME1. Porting dialogue would neither be tasteful nor appropriate. Kaidan got pissed off with Shepard on Horizon, there's far different from meeting Shepard for the first time in ME1 and the Normandy. Again, it's for a smaller audience, and at most you'd only be able to use little snippets of dialogue that don't have to do with overall plot. Conceivably, Kaidan would have to - short of amnesia - remember that Shepard spent time with him tracking down Saren, then died and went with Cerberus, and now is here with him again. His dialogue in ME1 will not be the same as ME3.

But his dialog in ME3 will (with few exeptions) be the same nomatter if there was a romance in ME1 or not. I am not talking about using dialog from ME1 for the romance in ME3 I am talking about using the same lines for both a new and a continuing romance, the only difference required would be the first dialog and maybew some lines depending on the romance status in ME1 later in the romance. And the context for both a continuing and a new started romance would be nearly the same, the only difference is that Shepard/Kaidan had sex if you persued the romance there is still a more than two year long gap between ME1 and ME3, Kaidan still gets pissed of at a Shepards who romanced him  (and sends an email asking for forgivness ok that would have to be solved in ME3 for new romances), he still shares nearly the same past expieriences with Shepard,... You seriosly overestimate the problems and the workload that a new romance with Kaidan would bring.

Modifié par Wittand25, 25 mars 2010 - 07:24 .

[Collider]

Wittand25 wrote...
But his dialog in ME3 will (with few exeptions) be the same nomatter if there was a romance in ME1 or not.

Assumption. In ME2, you can't even have some conversations if you didn't romance the character.

I am not talking about using dialog from ME1 for the romance in ME3 I am talking about using the same lines for both a new and a continuing romance,

The problem is that it does not make sense. You don't say the same things with someone who you just have gotten into a relationship with versus someone you have romantic history with. That would be a disservice to LGBT community if they got some nonsensical and lazy like that. And all this for the smaller audience of Shepards who had Kaidan survive - so far as it appears, most people killed Kaidan on Virmire. It's far more sensical and a better use of resources to create new gay or bisexual male characters in ME3 - not male characters who are defined by their sexuality, of course.

[Ryzaki]

Collider wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Uh where do you live were this:

Collider wrote...

@ Ryzaki Um, how could you not agree with me? Having to play ME1, ME2, be male, and have Kaidan alive narrows the audience down versus a new gay or bisexual romance. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry.

I also see you're trying to push my buttons here. It's REALLY sad if you're so affected by me disagreeing that you want to test me. Poor baby can't except that someone disagrees with her ;_; Direct to your bull**** to the people who actually don't want same sex romances, not me.

isn't insulting? Must be an interesting place!

Ah how nice it is to pretend to be above other people isn't it.

I just said I never tried to insult or annoy you prior to that. I indeed never had. You tried to annoy me with Tali, so I do so in turn. That simple. It's rather childish of both of us to have done it, so I'd prefer to leave it in the past. If you had any doubts, I was not trying to annoy you with Zevran or Kaidan at all, so please be aware of that. You could switch Kaidan with Ashley and nothing I would say would be different.

That is not what you said. <_< You said you never insulted me period. You insulted me more than once to be honest but I brushed the other times off.  Please don't play with my intelligence to make yourself look better. All you had to do was agree that we both were in the wrong. Its not a hard thing to do. OMG I insulted Tali. The world is ending. Edit: I didn't even bloody insult Tali to further prove how overly sensitive you are being about the issue I just stated a fact. Tali can die. So can 90% of the characters in ME2. Don't take things about fictional characters so personally. I could easily say you offended me with your talk about how Zevran is shallow but that would be silly. I brought Tali up not to offend you (as you seem to be far too sensitive about the issue anyways) but to make a point. Tali can die in ME2 does that mean she shouldn't have a large role? Does that mean she should be unimportant because someone new to the series might not know who she is? What about other PCs that can die and that newcomers won't know? You don't write the end of a trilogy for people who didn't read the first two novels.

Anyways. A new LI period would be ridculous unless everyone (or nearly everyone) from ME2 becomes cameos which would suck. So yeah. I really don't want and ME doesn't really need more characters. We have way too many that as it stands trying to flesh them all out is already a daunting task. Adding more characters into the mix is not going to help that and most likely will result in everyone being more shallow as a result.

Edit: Forget it. Frankly I don't know why I expected any different. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 08:06 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Collider wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

As I said before, for me this is a 'if I say nothing I know nothing will happen' scenario. I can only put what I'd like to see out there. I have a tiny spark of hope that the devs will restore the ME1 m/m, if only for the final title in the trilogy. Otherwise, bring on a new character - though I'm still sympathetic to the idea that adding to the existing cast is insane.

I think you should push for new characters or characters who haven't had a romance, not existing characters who already have their romance for the opposite gender.

And as I also said before, though not in that post, why can't there be both? This isn't an either/or binary - I can ask for both of these things. I can support both of these things. And, in point of fact, I do support both of these things.

[Erode_The_Soul]

I know it was mentioned beforehand, and we've all probably moved on since then, but I have to say this for my own sanity. If Joker is going to be the s/s romance, he MUST BE BISEXUAL. I would love for there to be a purely homosexual romance but, please, not Joker.

It may be selfish and it may be hypocritical, but my single Femshep has been waiting since Joker's first scene in ME1 for a romance and if he becomes a LI, but not for her, I might just cry.

[Ryzaki]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

I know it was mentioned beforehand, and we've all probably moved on since then, but I have to say this for my own sanity. If Joker is going to be the s/s romance, he MUST BE BISEXUAL. I would love for there to be a purely homosexual romance but, please, not Joker.

It may be selfish and it may be hypocritical, but my single Femshep has been waiting since Joker's first scene in ME1 for a romance and if he becomes a LI, but not for her, I might just cry.

If Joker was a s/s option and only gay I'd facepalm. That would be the worst thing ever. Especially considering he treats MShep and FemShep the exact same way.

His bond with Shep is too strong to be restricted to one gender. Male or female.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 08:03 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

I know it was mentioned beforehand, and we've all probably moved on since then, but I have to say this for my own sanity. If Joker is going to be the s/s romance, he MUST BE BISEXUAL. I would love for there to be a purely homosexual romance but, please, not Joker.

It may be selfish and it may be hypocritical, but my single Femshep has been waiting since Joker's first scene in ME1 for a romance and if he becomes a LI, but not for her, I might just cry.

See, I think that'd just be common sense to compensate for the generally broad appeal of Seth Green. But that's me.

[Lightice_av]

His bond with Shep is too strong to be restricted to one gender. Male or female.

Considering that he makes certain comments about female squadmates, I'd say he's either straight, or maybe perhaps bisexual - rather imporbable though, since he never has such comments about men.

[Erode_The_Soul]

Ryzaki wrote...
His bond with Shep is too strong to be restricted to one gender. Male or female.

Agreed. I just needed to say that; sort of putting it out there since his name has been dropped as the same sex character and all. I have no problem with him being bi, but my Femshep MUST be able to romance him if he's a LI. Seriously.

[Ryzaki]

DP of Failure.

I hate this site at times.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 08:12 .

[Ryzaki]

Lightice_av wrote...

His bond with Shep is too strong to be restricted to one gender. Male or female.

Considering that he makes certain comments about female squadmates, I'd say he's either straight, or maybe perhaps bisexual - rather imporbable though, since he never has such comments about men.

Stop ruining my dreams!

Nah I'll stop joking. Joker...joking. Lulz.

Yeah though Joker wouldn't be my first...second...third...or hell even my last choice for a completely gay LI.

...and being Bi would be a bit of a stretch.. (Or at least in my interpretation of Joker).

...jeez. At this rate I'd rather they just focus on the plot and screw all the LIs except for epilogue blurbs like Awakening.

Edit: The more I think about it the less I want Joker as an LI. He's the only one who has a bond with Shep and is not romanceable. I don't want to lose that. Its nice for Shep to have someone he/she can talk to that don't secreatly want to bang him/her.

...

...

...

I really don't want Joker as an LI now.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 08:22 .

[Erode_The_Soul]

Ryzaki wrote..

I really don't want Joker as an LI now.

Well, to quote a certain someone:

Ryzaki wrote...
Stop ruining my dreams!

[Ryzaki]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

Ryzaki wrote..

I really don't want Joker as an LI now.

Well, to quote a certain someone:

Ryzaki wrote...
Stop ruining my dreams!

True but I don't think I'd feel this way if most of the romances didn't give me a this is shallow vibe. Its always talk bang right before big mission done. Ugh. <_< Even Tali who could potentially die from it. Instead of potentially talking to her and having a moment minus the sex she's all. "Let's have sex Shepard!!!" "Huh? You wanna talk about something else? I can't wait to have sex Shepard!!!" *headdesk*

*groans* For pete's sake. It wouldn't kill for any of the LIs not to have a sex scene. (Was that scene with Garrus sex? Twas hard to tell but knowing how the relationships go in this game. )

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 08:51 .

[Collider]

Ryzaki wrote...
True but I don't think I'd feel this way if most of the romances didn't give me a this is shallow vibe. Its always talk bang right before big mission done. Ugh. <_< Even Tali who could potentially die from it. Instead of potentially talking to her and having a moment minus the sex she's all. "Let's have sex Shepard!!!" "Huh? You wanna talk about something else? I can't wait to have sex Shepard!!!" *headdesk*

If you actually did the romance without bias you'd know this was far from true. 

[Ryzaki]

Collider wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
True but I don't think I'd feel this way if most of the romances didn't give me a this is shallow vibe. Its always talk bang right before big mission done. Ugh. <_< Even Tali who could potentially die from it. Instead of potentially talking to her and having a moment minus the sex she's all. "Let's have sex Shepard!!!" "Huh? You wanna talk about something else? I can't wait to have sex Shepard!!!" *headdesk*

If you actually did the romance without bias you'd know this was far from true. 

In your opinion. Not mine.

To me the romances in ME2 were shallow.

Doesn't help that they would stop talking to you unless you happen to be romancing them. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 09:04 .