7455 réponses à ce sujet

[SimonTheFrog]

tyddrwsau wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

method82 wrote...

@ importance of romances.

I agree on most of the statements in the first paragraph. Eye-candy doesn't equal immersion. I personally think the leveldesign is immersive enough, though (But I'd prefer some epic areas like the boss fight from ME1 (i mean fighting under sovereign) because sci-fi is conventionally the place to look for huuuuuge stuff).
Anyway: story and social interaction are my favorite above all and it's where ME shines imho. 
But for me that doesn't mean romance, necessarily. I would enjoy the game immensely if they had never included romance (nothing against some flirting). But since they did, they better do it right. And i don't think they did it right in ME2. You pick your favorite, click "yes i want you" two times in a dialog and here you go. It's the most minimalistic approach to dating since... well... hookers. There is hardly any development in the relationship, no crisis, no bold step forward, no from-sparkle-to-flames, no you-name-it. 
It feels like BioWare didn't want to spend screen-time on it but felt that they would be hated if they'd left it out completely. And this is not a good approach for having romantic interaction with the most important allies in the game. (on the other hand i think they very creatively made different "end"-scenes for all 6 LI's. They are all unique amongst each other (well, besides the fact that the female and male assortment is kinda mirrored concerning the psychology of the LI). It's not all bad)
So, what i think would be the right thing to do is to stress the importance of social interaction on board the Normandy and tell interesting stories about the crewmembers and how their relationship to the commander develops over time. I mean, sure, it's happening to a certain extend in both ME1 (a lot about codex) and ME2 (more about personal background) but there's always room for more.
And, but this is my personal taste, make less LI's in number, but more dialogs, depth and development with each. 

@ race-against-time

Indeed, i felt that it's a bit ridiculous in ME1 that your are constantly told to chase and that there is no time and off you go on some UNC, driving the Mako against walls, getting stuck in some insignificant rock in space. 
ME2 handled that a lot better as it gave you hints that the abductions are currently taking place (Feris Fields) but it's your initiative as to when to strike. 
I'm not sure how to handle this, because it's obviously important to build up some sort of tension while at the same time give the player the freedom to do what he wants whenever he wants. This is a contradiction which is hard to solve. 

@ gay romances

I don't disagree with any of your points. I just don't think we need to justify why it's good to have gay romances. It's good because players want them. Plus they'd fit the setting perfectly (the cut dialog from ME1 is in my opinion incredibly well written, especially in the case of Kaidan/maleShep).
Well, i also think that it improves the overall atmosphere of the game and universe. But that is because it's my personal preference. It's not really an argument 

Edit: some tweaks

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 27 mars 2010 - 05:01 .

[tyddrwsau]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

@ importance of romances.

I agree on most of the statements in the first paragraph. Eye-candy doesn't equal immersion. --- 8< ---
But for me that doesn't mean romance, necessarily. I would enjoy the game immensely if they had never included romance (nothing against some flirting). But since they did, they better do it right. And i don't think they did it right in ME2. --- 8< ---
So, what i think would be the right thing to do is to stress the importance of social interaction on board the Normandy and tell interesting stories about the crewmembers and how their relationship to the commander develops over time.

Yes, had they included no romances or even a single romanceable character that was either required ("part of the core story is the Shepard and Liara love story") or optional ("Shep and Liara have chemistry, but the player decides how it plays out"), inclusion of same-sex romances wouldn't be so much an issue. As we've rehashed several times, it is the abundance of choices but the omission of m/m that drives me to advocate for inclusion.

I would be very pleased if social interaction in the Normandy crew goes to a level of greater depth in ME3. Shepard's romance, Shepard's friendships, the squad's and even the "red shirts" relationships with each other. In ME2 we have limited friendship options for Shepard, with the most relationship detail enshrined in the romances. Three clumps of "red shirts" relate to each other (mess hall, crew quarters, engineering). Two pairs of squadmates have a single confrontation scene, and the Jack and Miranda backstory is briefly touched upon. Joker and EDI's interrelations are the only continuous NPC relationship that apparently evolves. In ME1, squad banter (in the dreaded elevators!) was limited but showed how characters related to each other in general tone if nothing else. The way Ashley and Kaidan interacted on Virmire let us know that they'd become friends, and cared for each other, during the "off screen" parts of the story before. I liked that. We don't even know *how* the ME2 characters might talk to each other, for the most part.

I'm with you that story and character interaction drives my interest.

@ race-against-time

Indeed, i felt that it's a bit ridiculous in ME1 that your are constantly told to chase and that there is no time and off you go on some UNC, driving the Mako against walls, getting stuck in some insignificant rock in space. 
ME2 handled that a lot better as it gave you hints that the abductions are currently taking place (Feris Fields) but it's your initiative as to when to strike. 
I'm not sure how to handle this, because it's obviously important to build up some sort of tension while at the same time give the player the freedom to do what he wants whenever he wants. This is a contradiction which is hard to solve. 

I don't think it would be too hard in the specific example of ME3.
Act I - "Reapers are coming sometime, get ready" ... squad relationships, alliances, politics, research and exploration all fit in readily in this scenario. The Reaper threat is a Serious Threat... if they arrive "tomorrow" galactic civilization is in deep trouble, but if they were to arrive in 100 years or more there'd still be a lot of work to do to prepare. They've been scrubbing the galaxy for millions of years, after all. We know ME3 will be a Shepard story, so it's not going to be a century of preparation. But I daresay that there's plenty of room for tension in the "got to get ready!" setup that also leaves room for some latitude in casual exploration and personal time with the characters.  There's already some setup that provides another plot option in this scenario: Shepard and her/his crew know the threat is real, others in the galaxy either believe or not. Convincing the galaxy of the need to prepare could be a great story itself.
Act II - "Best we can tell, Reapers will be here in X timeframe" ... The pace picks up, not so much relaxation room now! But even in the frenzy of preparations for a known crisis, there are quiet moments where we come back to ground and relate more to what passes for our personal lives than to the crisis itself.
Act III - "Reapers are here!" ... The crisis hits. In the heat of battle, or an FTL race to get to a threatened world, there are moments of truth where the people dealing with the crisis show who they really are and why they are on the front lines.

@ gay romances

I don't disagree with any of your points. I just don't think we need to justify why it's good to have gay romances. It's good because players want them. Plus they'd fit the setting perfectly (the cut dialog from ME1 is in my opinion incredibly well written, especially in the case of Kaidan/maleShep).

Again, I agree. I'm accustomed to having to justify nonetheless. Having a good rational argument or statement of position sometimes helps.

Anyway, a great thing about implementing same-sex romantic relationships that have the same level of detail and development as those in ME2 when it shipped is something that can certainly be accomplished with expansion content, and then carried through to ME3 consistent with how character relations are implemented in that title. So many of the other criticisms of ME2's design, if they're to be addressed at all, would be difficult or impossible to change by expansion.

[SimonTheFrog]

tyddrwsau wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

@ importance of romances.

 --- 8< --- (i love it )
 

--- 8< ---

I would be very pleased if social interaction in the Normandy crew goes to a level of greater depth in ME3. Shepard's romance, Shepard's friendships, the squad's and even the "red shirts" relationships with each other.

--- 8< ---

We don't even know *how* the ME2 characters might talk to each other, for the most part.

Yes, they had to sacrifice the atmospheric dialogs for the sake of having the "Dirty Dozen". You can't have 12 x 12 dialog options and prepare dialogs for each of them. It's a design choice they made which i don't like but can accept. 
But it's also true that they made some moves in the right direction with the "confrontations" and the red-shirt dialogs, but i think they stopped too early. We pretty much only hear Kelly's and Jokers one-liners about the other crew members. The one thing that would have been cool about the "Dirty Dozen" theme is to forge a "band of brother", so to speak. You know, the motley crew that doesn't fit and even has issues among each other but is pulled together by the mission and by the commander (aka the natural leader).
I never have the "feeling" that my crew mates are a crew. It's just individuals that stand ready for using them in missions. 
This is a missed opportunity and i think many people are feeling the same way.

@ race-against-time

--- 8< ---

I don't think it would be too hard in the specific example of ME3.

--- 8< ---

Your three acts are reminding me a lot of the ME1 plot. I don't think its so much about how to set up the big arc but how NPC's yell at you about having no time (plus hectic music heheh). 
Anyway, i agree that skilled designer should be able to come up with a solution here

I liked the "romance-before-ilos" feeling. There was a certain sadness to it. I can't tell you why, but this was lacking completely in ME2. And this even though the setting would fit much better. But it never really clicked for me. Probably because there is no real plot but a main "goal" and lots of side missions that need to be done before. 

So, anyway, i never felt it would be inappropriate to put the big mission on hold to chat with your romance. It's too much a game to worry about this sort of thing.

--- 8< --- 

Anyway, a great thing about implementing same-sex romantic relationships that have the same level of detail and development as those in ME2 when it shipped is something that can certainly be accomplished with expansion content, and then carried through to ME3 consistent with how character relations are implemented in that title. So many of the other criticisms of ME2's design, if they're to be addressed at all, would be difficult or impossible to change by expansion.

Indeed. Although i'm not sure. I think the staging of the dialogs (adjusting the cameras, the animations, the VO) is much more trouble than building a canyon with some enemies in it (beside the fact the fighting mission usually have animation, camera movements and VO too). But i'm just guessing, dunno for sure. 

Edit: lol, i messed up the quoting... you have to guess what's mine and what's yours 

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 27 mars 2010 - 06:57 .

[SirGladiator]

I think pretty much everything is already taken care of, having just completed the Miranda romance as FemShep, using the save-game-editor thing. The only thing they'd actually need to do is put back the part of the VO that they cut out, and get rid of the gender-check that prevents the romance from starting in the first place. Everything else seems pretty well taken care of, including all the animations, and the love scene (probably most folks here had already seen the FemShep-Miranda love scene on YouTube, but for those who hadn't, its totally there). So the bottom line is it'll be SUPER easy for them to add the romances back in via DLC, preferrably as part of a more sizable Romance DLC that will add more romance for all the LIs!

[Asef Dimakiir]

Just want to put my two cents here. I think its great if there's gay relationships in ME and all. But I don't think it should mess with the way a character is written just for the sake of having a gay love interest. Some characters have a set sexuality that makes sense to their character, it only makes it out of character if you force them to be a bisexual character. And I agree its a unfair that bioware only included female bisexual characters. But I think if there is to be a male or female gay character, they should be gay and obviously gay from the start and it must go with their character properly, like Zevran (he was raised open-minded in a very open-minded city). I can't see Tali or Thane being homosexual, especially after Thane already had a wife and family. Tali just didn't come off as homosexual either. I suspect this is why bioware pulled it after entertaining the idea. They shouldn't compromise character writing just for romance and sex. Realistically, not everyone is open to every gender. I prefer proper character writing that stays in character over sex any day. (Its also why I bloody hate slash fics that force characters into nonsensical out of character relationships.) And I'm going to say this once again before I shut up and end my rant. I'm fine with a homosexual character as long as it makes sense to their character background and personality.

Modifié par Asef Dimakiir, 28 mars 2010 - 11:42 .

[SorenTrigg]

Asef, first, thank you for the support.

Second, we are not really asking for any character (aside from a new one, perhaps) to become flat out gay. Some of us, however, would like if they were open to both sexes as options.

Plus, you cannot really bring personality or background into things. Anyone can be gay, bisexual, or straight. Just because someone does not come off as gay, doesn't mean they aren't, or anything. I mean, Zaeed could be gay for all we know. despite his personality, you know what I mean?



Also, as we have brought up before on the subject of Thane, or Kaidan, or Garrus (all of whom have at least expressed interest in females), you can still like guys even if you have been in a relationship with a woman.



No one in ME has a set sexuality. No one has explicitly stated "I am only interested in X".

[R0cket Surge0n]

I think that when you're at the point that you're porking members of completely different species. Who sometimes dont even have different sexes (asari for example). It become pretty academic what your partners are or look like.

[tyddrwsau]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Yes, they had to sacrifice the atmospheric dialogs for the sake of having the "Dirty Dozen". You can't have 12 x 12 dialog options and prepare dialogs for each of them. It's a design choice they made which i don't like but can accept. 

Falling back on our other recent example of another BioWare title, the Dragon Age: Origins team developed a game with 10 possible party members, and conversation/banter between each pair. (Granted, the Dog doesn't speak words but is only spoken to, and the secret companion and the other Warden don't coexist.) Many of us point to the way the DA:O team implemented this as something Mass Effect could improve by emulating, and they did it with a big party.

This is a missed opportunity and i think many people are feeling the same way.

I agree. Having more of a feeling that the crew is, in fact, a crew would make the story better. Even if members of the crew don't get along, they live and work together in a closed environment.

Referencing DA:O again, all the teammates talk with the Warden about their motivations, and talk and even argue with each other about them. I also liked how there were dialogues between PC and between party members that acknowledged the romance the Warden is in. With my primary Warden, I was in the male/male romantic relationship - and while I know it's an economy of dialogue, I appreciated that the same-sex issue wasn't one for anybody. It's sort of like mShep vs. fShep in dialogue - they share the same lines most likely because that's more efficient than developing two entirely separate dialogue trees based on gender, but I for one quite appreciate that this means Shepard is a tough galactic icon regardless of silly gender prejudices. The writing team has written a Shepard that works without devolving into the self-limiting loop of "wait, wait, what would a woman say in this circumstance?"

Indeed. Although i'm not sure. I think the staging of the dialogs (adjusting the cameras, the animations, the VO) is much more trouble than building a canyon with some enemies in it (beside the fact the fighting mission usually have animation, camera movements and VO too). But i'm just guessing, dunno for sure. 

Besides the point you mention that most fighting missions have some sort of cutscene (and now, emphasis on unique environment), those things are a part of developing content. The VO issue is one that BioWare set themselves up for by going with games that are fully voice acted. Many folks argue against new character dialogue from the point of view that "it's too expensive to get the actors back for (whatever)" but I would certainly hope that BioWare actually made a plan for that while preparing to conform to EA's downloadable content / ongoing support & development after release plan.

For anything besides finishing the partially developed bi options, I reckon the biggest base chore is coming up with a polished character story plus model and conversation tree to record. That applies to any character, though, and I certainly hope they give us someone useful and interesting who isn't just the "token gay love interest."

R0cket Surge0n wrote...

I think that when you're at the point that you're porking members of
completely different species. Who sometimes dont even have different
sexes (asari for example). It become pretty academic what your partners
are or look like.

I couldn't agree more.

[LiquidGrape]

The way I see it, everyone in Mass Effect is bisexual.

- They just haven't been charmed enough by my Shepard yet.

[Lopake]

bump

[Cootie]

I give this thread 100% of my support.

Do want.

[SirGladiator]

I don't really look at any of the characters as straight, or bisexual, or anything else, I just look at them as they are as characters. For example, we know that Jack is bisexual and yet not available to Femshep, and everybody thinks of Ashley as straight ONLY because she is only a romance option for MaleShep players (but if you'd played the romance as FemShep via mod, like I have, you'd probably assume she didn't like men at all, judging by some of the things she says in the FemShep romance) . But all that is mostly irrelevant, as it doesn't really matter what kind of past a given LI has, whether they were mostly (or exclusively) interested in men or women, all that matters is their relationship with Shepard. Did Miranda mostly sleep with men or mostly sleep with women, before Shepard? Who knows and who cares, all we want is the same romance options that MaleShep players have. I dont really care if she was totally into women, or not remotely into women at all, before she met Shepard. I'd rather a given character be interested in my FemShep for who she is, not because she is, or isn't, of a particular gender.



The nice thing about the ME series is that gender plays almost no role at all, obviously that can be a hit or miss sort of thing but the way they did it was a total hit, its all good. Why do they abandon that to take the fun away from the romance department? It doesn't make any sense. Its not like they're making the game any better, its not like they're saying 'sure, we cut every single romance you could possibly have been interested in, but here are some exclusive characters that nobody else gets, you can romance them instead', they're simply cutting them out and replacing them with nothing, it doesn't make anybody happy, its all downside with no possible upside whatsoever, thats whats so frustrating. How could anybody seriously do something that dumb? It just doesn't make any sense.



The one nice thing they did was the people who were ordered to cut our romances out of the game didn't 'entirely' cut them out, they did leave bits and pieces of the romances still in the game for fans to find so we could know that it wasn't their decision, they wanted them in the game, it was somebody else forcing them to take them out. Hopefully they'll find a way to sneak them back into the game soon via DLC .

[The Uncanny]

SirGladiator wrote...

I don't really look at any of the characters as straight, or bisexual, or anything else, I just look at them as they are as characters. For example, we know that Jack is bisexual and yet not available to Femshep.

Actually, I'd say we don't know this at all.

Her dialogue is deliberately vague on this point. We know she has had sex with men and at least one woman. That is all. All those contextualizing her statements are doing her a disservice. We don't know the details regarding these interactions. Just because the ménage à trois she became a part of turned sour doesn't mean it didn't start sweet. Or not. We don't know.

What we actually have is a young woman who isn’t actively sexually aggressive with a woman PC and who is actively sexually aggressive with a man PC. There is nothing to be read into this. She could have decided to be heterosexual for the rest of her life. Or not. She could actually harbour a secret preference for women and her own fears and insecurities cause her to push FShep away. Or not. She could have misunderstood Fshep’s interest in her. Or not. She could have taken a vow of celibacy for all we actually know.

But this is exactly why 'turning her gay through DLC' would be fine - nothing is concrete. Nothing is definitively established. The same is true for most, if not all, of the other potential LIs.

[onelifecrisis]

Sorry but I'm not going to read 167 pages to see if anyone has said this already!

BW have pretty plainly stated that gayness won't be happening for Shepard.

If they change their mind then I hope they fix the current problem with romances that we've had in ME1 and ME2 - namely that they have a habit of starting even if you don't want them to. I don't want my Shepard going for a chat with Garrus in ME3 and having him hit on me. I think that would ruin the immersion for me (and, I dare say, a lot of other gamers) while satisfying the desires of a relative few. If there's to be gay romance it needs to be player-initiated (ideally I'd rather see *all* romances being player-initiated, so that you don't accidentally start one).

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 30 mars 2010 - 11:21 .

[Lightice_av]

BW have pretty plainly stated that gayness won't be happening for Shepard.

Do at least read the FAQ at the start of the thread. This is the most common and most easily dismissed claim of the bunch. FemShep can already be gay; there's no way over or around that fact. With that in mind your presumed reference to Dr. Muzyka's interview is as empty as the others - he doesn't say anything in response to the question about the topic - he dodges it to speak about entirely different conjencture.

I think that would ruin the immersion for me (and, I dare say, a lot of other gamers) while satisfying the desires of a relative few.

Again, had you read even a couple of pages, everybody here is all for options that are plain as day, in all romance subplots. Though exactly what you mean by "ruining immersion" in this context is rather beyond me; having a homosexual on board makes it clear that it's just a game for you?

[Wittand25]

onelifecrisis wrote...
BW have pretty plainly stated that gayness won't be happening for Shepard.

It already does if Shepard is female.

If they change their mind then I hope they fix the current problem with romances that we've had in ME1 and ME2 - namely that they have a habit of starting even if you don't want them to. I don't want my Shepard going for a chat with Garrus in ME3 and having him hit on me. I think that would ruin the immersion for me (and, I dare say, a lot of other gamers) while satisfying the desires of a relative few. If there's to be gay romance it needs to be player-initiated (ideally I'd rather see *all* romances being player-initiated, so that you don't accidentally start one).

It was not a problem to tell the romances in ME2 that you are not intrested, I fail to see how a s/s romance would be any different.
If you play without a romance Mordin already assumes that a male Shepard is interested in him so how would an full romance be any more immersion breaking?

[onelifecrisis]

Wittand25 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...
BW have pretty plainly stated that gayness won't be happening for Shepard.

It already does if Shepard is female.

No need to nitpick. Most people use "gay" to refer to men and "lesbian" to refer to women.

Wittand25 wrote...

If they change their mind then I hope they fix the current problem with romances that we've had in ME1 and ME2 - namely that they have a habit of starting even if you don't want them to. I don't want my Shepard going for a chat with Garrus in ME3 and having him hit on me. I think that would ruin the immersion for me (and, I dare say, a lot of other gamers) while satisfying the desires of a relative few. If there's to be gay romance it needs to be player-initiated (ideally I'd rather see *all* romances being player-initiated, so that you don't accidentally start one).

It was not a problem to tell the romances in ME2 that you are not intrested, I fail to see how a s/s romance would be any different.
If you play without a romance Mordin already assumes that a male Shepard is interested in him so how would an full romance be any more immersion breaking?

Mordin is a new character, and his assumption fits him quite well. Other characters, I don't think it would fit well at all. Garrus, Jacob, Thane... these are not characters I can see going for a gay relationship given what I've seen of them so far. To suddenly make them all bisexual would kill their characters. I doubt I'm alone in thinking this. A couple of posts above mine, someone said s/s romances would be good for the simple reason that people want them. I suspect that there are *more* people who *don't* want them, which (if said suspicion is correct) basically nullifies that argument. For me personally this is especially true of characters who have already been established as heterosexual. If BW decide to bring in new gay characters, fine, but if they decide to have *everyone* go bisexual then as I said it's character assassination, with the added drawback that you can't be friends with anyone on the ship (it's bas enough as it is, where I can only be friends with half of them - the other half want lurve or nothing) unless they fix the problems I mentioned.

[Lightice_av]

No need to nitpick. Most people use "gay" to refer to men and "lesbian" to refer to women.

Both are homosexual. Where's the difference from any reasonable standpoint? Also, "gay" is a gender-neutral term. "Lesbian" is gender-specific.

Garrus, Jacob, Thane... these are not characters I can see going for a gay relationship given what I've seen of them so far. To suddenly make them all bisexual would kill their characters.

This statement doesn't, well, make sense. Exactly how would bisexuality "kill" a character? As long as it's written well, there should be no problem. If Bioware would just stick the option up without slightest of explanation I might agree with you, but they're not exactly known for such half-asses approaches.
Likewise, everybody here wants separate friendship and romance paths; no matter who you romance, straight or gay, it pretty much prevents you from befriending any of the romanceable characters beyond their loyalty quest. This is something that needs to be mended, regardless of sexuality.
Also, grand majority of the people here don't want everybody to go bisexual - just one character per gender. That ought to be enough in my opinion.

Incidentally, what got you to say that Mordin is a new character, while Jacob and Thane are not? Neither was in ME1 any more than Mordin.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 30 mars 2010 - 12:05 .

[onelifecrisis]

Lightice_av wrote...

BW have pretty plainly stated that gayness won't be happening for Shepard.

Do at least read the FAQ at the start of the thread. This is the most common and most easily dismissed claim of the bunch. FemShep can already be gay; there's no way over or around that fact. With that in mind your presumed reference to Dr. Muzyka's interview is as empty as the others - he doesn't say anything in response to the question about the topic - he dodges it to speak about entirely different conjencture.

I think that would ruin the immersion for me (and, I dare say, a lot of other gamers) while satisfying the desires of a relative few.

Again, had you read even a couple of pages, everybody here is all for options that are plain as day, in all romance subplots. Though exactly what you mean by "ruining immersion" in this context is rather beyond me; having a homosexual on board makes it clear that it's just a game for you?

Okay, I read the FAQ. Nice to see that the OP is not asking for character assassinations. See my previous comment WRT femshep. I can't remember where I read BW's statements on the possibility of Shepard being gay, but I recall there was not much room for misinterpretation. I suspect you're reading what you want to read rather than what's actually being said. In any case, BW would hardly be the first company to do a 180 on what they've said previously, so keep lobbying.

[Wittand25]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...
BW have pretty plainly stated that gayness won't be happening for Shepard.

It already does if Shepard is female.

No need to nitpick. Most people use "gay" to refer to men and "lesbian" to refer to women.

Wittand25 wrote...

If they change their mind then I hope they fix the current problem with romances that we've had in ME1 and ME2 - namely that they have a habit of starting even if you don't want them to. I don't want my Shepard going for a chat with Garrus in ME3 and having him hit on me. I think that would ruin the immersion for me (and, I dare say, a lot of other gamers) while satisfying the desires of a relative few. If there's to be gay romance it needs to be player-initiated (ideally I'd rather see *all* romances being player-initiated, so that you don't accidentally start one).

It was not a problem to tell the romances in ME2 that you are not intrested, I fail to see how a s/s romance would be any different.
If you play without a romance Mordin already assumes that a male Shepard is interested in him so how would an full romance be any more immersion breaking?

Mordin is a new character, and his assumption fits him quite well. Other characters, I don't think it would fit well at all. Garrus, Jacob, Thane... these are not characters I can see going for a gay relationship given what I've seen of them so far. To suddenly make them all bisexual would kill their characters. I doubt I'm alone in thinking this. A couple of posts above mine, someone said s/s romances would be good for the simple reason that people want them. I suspect that there are *more* people who *don't* want them, which (if said suspicion is correct) basically nullifies that argument. For me personally this is especially true of characters who have already been established as heterosexual. If BW decide to bring in new gay characters, fine, but if they decide to have *everyone* go bisexual then as I said it's character assassination, with the added drawback that you can't be friends with anyone on the ship (it's bas enough as it is, where I can only be friends with half of them - the other half want lurve or nothing) unless they fix the problems I mentioned.

Judging by the polls and groups on the social site your assumption is wrong ( twice as many are for the inclusion in one poll and the pro group has nearly six times as many members as the contra group).
Noone wants every teammember to be available for both sexes just having one of the male and one of the female open for a Shepard of the same sex would be enough. The only thing that defines eight out of the current nine LIs as straight is the gender check in ,not their behaviuor or dialog in the games so I personally dont see why it would be character assasination to open two of them up for s/s by a DLC.
A new LI for m/m and f/f woulds be prefareable but that wont happen prior to ME3, if it happens at all. For ME2 a DLC that allows two of the existing LI to be romanced by both Shepards is the only realistic solution.
Oh and if you dont romance on of the female LI their dialog ends exactly at the same time that it ends for a female Shepard so allowing a same sex romance would not mean that you miss the frienship dialog with the npc because the frienship is finished before the romance even starts (the lack of a proper frienship path for all six of the LIs regardless of Shepard´s sex is a very common complaint in every thread connected to romance options).

[onelifecrisis]

Lightice_av wrote...

No need to nitpick. Most people use "gay" to refer to men and "lesbian" to refer to women.

Both are homosexual. Where's the difference from any reasonable standpoint? Also, "gay" is a gender-neutral term. "Lesbian" is gender-specific.

Garrus, Jacob, Thane... these are not characters I can see going for a gay relationship given what I've seen of them so far. To suddenly make them all bisexual would kill their characters.

This statement doesn't, well, make sense. Exactly how would bisexuality "kill" a character? As long as it's written well, there should be no problem. If Bioware would just stick the option up without slightest of explanation I might agree with you, but they're not exactly known for such half-asses approaches.
Likewise, everybody here wants separate friendship and romance paths; no matter who you romance, straight or gay, it pretty much prevents you from befriending any of the romanceable characters beyond their loyalty quest. This is something that needs to be mended, regardless of sexuality.
Also, grand majority of the people here don't want everybody to go bisexual - just one character per gender. That ought to be enough in my opinion.

Incidentally, what got you to say that Mordin is a new character, while Jacob and Thane are not? Neither was in ME1 any more than Mordin.

Why are you intentionally misunderstanding all of my statements? I'm beginning to see why the other threads got locked down. If you want to discuss the issue you'd do better to talk about the issue itself rather than nitpicking at every word. The meanings behind my statements are perfectly clear, and you're just being argumentative.

[onelifecrisis]

Judging by the polls and groups on the social site your assumption is wrong ( twice as many are for the inclusion in one poll and the pro group has nearly six times as many members as the contra group).

Polls are not a very good indicator here. People with complaints tend to be louder than people who are satisfied.

Noone wants every teammember to be available for both sexes just having one of the male and one of the female open for a Shepard of the same sex would be enough. The only thing that defines eight out of the current nine LIs as straight is the gender check in ,not their behaviuor or dialog in the games so I personally dont see why it would be character assasination to open two of them up for s/s by a DLC.

Garrus, Thane and Jacob all have backstories involving women, and none have backstories involving men.

[Arik7]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

No need to nitpick. Most people use "gay" to refer to men and "lesbian" to refer to women.

Both are homosexual. Where's the difference from any reasonable standpoint? Also, "gay" is a gender-neutral term. "Lesbian" is gender-specific.

Garrus, Jacob, Thane... these are not characters I can see going for a gay relationship given what I've seen of them so far. To suddenly make them all bisexual would kill their characters.

This statement doesn't, well, make sense. Exactly how would bisexuality "kill" a character? As long as it's written well, there should be no problem. If Bioware would just stick the option up without slightest of explanation I might agree with you, but they're not exactly known for such half-asses approaches.
Likewise, everybody here wants separate friendship and romance paths; no matter who you romance, straight or gay, it pretty much prevents you from befriending any of the romanceable characters beyond their loyalty quest. This is something that needs to be mended, regardless of sexuality.
Also, grand majority of the people here don't want everybody to go bisexual - just one character per gender. That ought to be enough in my opinion.

Incidentally, what got you to say that Mordin is a new character, while Jacob and Thane are not? Neither was in ME1 any more than Mordin.

Why are you intentionally misunderstanding all of my statements? I'm beginning to see why the other threads got locked down. If you want to discuss the issue you'd do better to talk about the issue itself rather than nitpicking at every word. The meanings behind my statements are perfectly clear, and you're just being argumentative.

Your statements don't really make a whole lot of sense though. 

All kinds of people can be gay or bisexual.  Just take a look at those conservative family-values politicians or evangelists with wife and children, yet they frequently get outed.  Bisexuality or homosexuality cannot be "out of character," not could it change a character. 

Modifié par Arik7, 30 mars 2010 - 12:21 .

[Tirigon]

Same Sex romances - I want them.