7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Wittand25]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Never heard of slash, shonen ai or yaoi ?

Er, no, actually. Should I google or do you care to elaborate?

And while those who dont care definatly are the majority on this subject ( like they are on any other subject ) wont seek out that poll, both those who activly support or oppose it do so ( the opposers even have a link to the poll I mentioned in thir group description) and the supporters still outnumber them two to one.

I am suggesting that there may be great many silent opposers to whom it has not even occurred that they need to vote, especially given BioWare's public statement that (male) Shepard will not turn gay (I really need to find a link to that before someone else attacks me on it) and the presumable natural assumption of many ME1/2 gamers that ME3 will continue what is now an established trend in the series. Whether or not that is true is a matter for BW to judge.

You are a straight man so it is probably healthier for you not to google those terms.
Lets just say that they are forms of literature written by women for other women featuring homosexual male lead characters.
I think you refer to the statement that one of the doctors gave a while back. We know about that and have discussed and dismissed it some time ago.

[Servo to the bitter end]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I am suggesting that there may be great many silent opposers to whom it has not even occurred that they need to vote, especially given BioWare's public statement that (male) Shepard will not turn gay (I really need to find a link to that before someone else attacks me on it) and the presumable natural assumption of many ME1/2 gamers that ME3 will continue what is now an established trend in the series. Whether or not that is true is a matter for BW to judge.

There may just as well be a silent majority in favor of it.

Bioware can't read minds.  Yeah, possibly the majority of the game's fans don't frequent the forum, but Bioware has to gauge what it's fans want somehow.  They've got to go by what they see in the polls and on their forum.  That's why Tali and Garrus were opened as romances in the first place.

On this forum, there's more support for the inclusion of this content than there is opposition.  The people who don't care whether it's added or not seem to outnumber both groups.  Nothing is taken away from anyone.  Lots of people are made happy.

Modifié par TommyServo, 30 mars 2010 - 03:56 .

[onelifecrisis]

I think you refer to the statement that one of the doctors gave a while back. We know about that and have discussed and dismissed it some time ago.

You may have discussed and dismissed it. On what grounds I don't know or care - it doesn't mean that the majority of ME1/2 gamers have done the same. Had I not posted in this thread, I would still be happily assuming that BW would stick to their word and keep Shepard straight. Millions of people bought and played ME2, but a tiny fraction of them have signed up here, and not all of those will have read about this dismissal of yours, and not all of those will be in agreement with your dismissal, so you see your dismissal really fades into nothing, statistically speaking.

In any case, as I've said, I did not read all of the OP and misunderstood what was being asked for. As long as BW don't assassinate my perceptions of the existing characters, and as long as the choice is always Shepards, then AFAIC BW can add whatever sexual content they like. In that scenario, I can still continue what I see as being the ME storyline.

[jeffreykm]

I don't see the lack of same-sex romances as discriminatory in any way, but then again I'm not attracted to the same sex and thus may have a biased viewpoint. I personally wouldn't have a problem with it. Perhaps they could offer it as a free DLC pack (since it may have an impact on characters, as onelifecrisis said, that some may not want), if not integrated into the game directly.

[Cootie]

This is semi-alarming to me. I cannot really fathom why the option of having a homosexual Shepard is such a big no-no. It's not like your story will be ruined, is it? The straight Shepards will still be straight.
Maybe I'm just assuming things here, but I thought that Mass Effect fans appreciated the amount of choices the game offers.

Modifié par Cootie, 30 mars 2010 - 04:08 .

[onelifecrisis]

Cootie wrote...

This is semi-alarming to me. I cannot really fathom why the option of having a homosexual Shepard is such a big no-no. It's not like your story will be ruined, is it? The straight Shepards will still be straight.
Maybe I'm just assuming things here, but I thought that Mass Effect fans appreciated the amount of choices the game offers.

I assume you're responding to me, since I'm the only person posting against the idea atm.

I'm not against the *option* of a gay Shepard, I'm against the idea of having my previously seemingly straight team mates suddenly start hitting on my male Shepard in ME3 (for me it would be character assassination) which seems to me the most likely course for BW to take (should they decide to add gay m/m content) given the way they have so far handled romance in the ME games. However, I understand that's not what is being asked for here.

[jlb524]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I am suggesting that there may be great many silent opposers to whom it has not even occurred that they need to vote, especially given BioWare's public statement that (male) Shepard will not turn gay (I really need to find a link to that before someone else attacks me on it) and the presumable natural assumption of many ME1/2 gamers that ME3 will continue what is now an established trend in the series. Whether or not that is true is a matter for BW to judge.

If the silent opposers are lurking I'm sure this thread would have caught their attention.  They would have read the OP of this thread and come upon the polls listed there.  I would think they would vote it, as it is anonymous.  Who's to say the silent opposers aren't voting?  I bet there are also silent supporters who voted as well.  These forums have tons of lurkers who just like to read topics for their own amusement, information about the game, etc. and have no intentions of participating in discussions.

[Cootie]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I'm not against the *option* of a gay Shepard, I'm against the idea of having my previously seemingly straight team mates suddenly start hitting on my male Shepard in ME3 (for me it would be character assassination) which seems to me the most likely course for BW to take (should they decide to add gay m/m content) given the way they have so far handled romance in the ME games. However, I understand that's not what is being asked for here.

Although, they are already hitting on you, in some cases. It's just that the friendly flirt doesn't actually end up anywhere.
I've read a lot of "It doesn't really fit Tali's character", yet she felt free to point out that it would be an honour to connect suits to my femShep.
So if it's somehow wrong to develop the characters in a certain, bisexual manner, it's already been done.

[Baskervore]

They did it in Jade Empire, why not in ME?

[SimonTheFrog]

Some protesters seem to fear that with the inclusion of the option they will loose control over what happens aboard the Normandy. Specifically that Shepard suddenly responds flirtingly to people they don't think fit for a flirt and that they are somehow forced to click on those flirts... (Maybe a bit like how the dialogs with TIM after the resurrection can feel for paragon shepards, who really don't want to work with Cerberus under any circumstances... you don't want to click any of the options in the dialog... you can't but push the game in the direction you don't want it go)



Anyways... nobody in his sane mind would want BioWare to implement LI's like this. The player should always have control over his LI's. You don't want to flirt with same sex? Then simply don't. Problem solved.

[Tirigon]

Cootie wrote...



Although, they are already hitting on you, in some cases. It's just that the friendly flirt doesn't actually end up anywhere.
I've read a lot of "It doesn't really fit Tali's character", yet she felt free to point out that it would be an honour to connect suits to my femShep.
So if it's somehow wrong to develop the characters in a certain, bisexual manner, it's already been done.

I was very sad that this doesn´t lead anywhere. Sucks bad actually.

Btw, another thought: How can Turian / Drell / Quarians actually BE straight or homosexual towards a human? Maybe they have different ways of reproduction, so they have no genders in the human sense of the word...

[Sago_mulch]

Add ****** romances only if it makes sense (and homos don't make sense) - we don't want lots of man trains on the normanday.



joking, lol

[onelifecrisis]

jlb524 wrote...

If the silent opposers are lurking I'm sure this thread would have caught their attention.  They would have read the OP of this thread and come upon the polls listed there.  I would think they would vote it, as it is anonymous.  Who's to say the silent opposers aren't voting?  I bet there are also silent supporters who voted as well.  These forums have tons of lurkers who just like to read topics for their own amusement, information about the game, etc. and have no intentions of participating in discussions.

This thread has 4000 views. ME2 was purchased by 2000000 gamers in the first... week? Fortnight? I forget. And that's just legitimate sales. Do the math.

I dare say the public statement by BW was read by a great many more than 4000 people. IIIRC, I found it when I googled "Mass Effect 3". And given the comments in this thread, it seems that a great many people interpreted that statement the same way I did. BW will be aware of that.

[onelifecrisis]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Some protesters seem to fear that with the inclusion of the option they will loose control over what happens aboard the Normandy. Specifically that Shepard suddenly responds flirtingly to people they don't think fit for a flirt and that they are somehow forced to click on those flirts... (Maybe a bit like how the dialogs with TIM after the resurrection can feel for paragon shepards, who really don't want to work with Cerberus under any circumstances... you don't want to click any of the options in the dialog... you can't but push the game in the direction you don't want it go)

Anyways... nobody in his sane mind would want BioWare to implement LI's like this. The player should always have control over his LI's. You don't want to flirt with same sex? Then simply don't. Problem solved.

Except that we don't currently have control, do we? All the women hit on male shep like crazy. Liara practically throws herself at him. Ashley flirts. Jack assumes his concerned enquiries are really about sex and/or romance. Miranda comes onto him after he expresses concern about her self-esteem. Tali finds an awkward way to let him know she has feelings for him. In not one of these cases does Shepard initiate the romance with anything other than friendly conversation or professional concern. It's bad enough that this happens with all the women, but if it started happening with the men too I'd be very annoyed.

[Servo to the bitter end]

The only public statement we're aware of is Muzyka's quote, which we discuss in the FAQ. Please don't invoke it unless you're going to offer a new interpretation of it. As it stands, that quote has been extensively debunked, and has no bearing on this issue at all.

Again, you're assuming most of the people who don't post on the forums are against this. Maybe, maybe not. But if they don't participate in the community, it doesn't matter what they think or want - at the end of the day, any changes made based on community desire will be gleaned from these forums.

[onelifecrisis]

TommyServo wrote...

The only public statement we're aware of is Muzyka's quote, which we discuss in the FAQ. Please don't invoke it unless you're going to offer a new interpretation of it. As it stands, that quote has been extensively debunked, and has no bearing on this issue at all.
Again, you're assuming most of the people who don't post on the forums are against this. Maybe, maybe not. But if they don't participate in the community, it doesn't matter what they think or want - at the end of the day, any changes made based on community desire will be gleaned from these forums.

I did a search in the FAQ for "Muzyka" to see if that's the same interview I read, and came up with nothing. Did you spell it right?

[SimonTheFrog]

onelifecrisis wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Some protesters seem to fear that with the inclusion of the option they will loose control over what happens aboard the Normandy. Specifically that Shepard suddenly responds flirtingly to people they don't think fit for a flirt and that they are somehow forced to click on those flirts... (Maybe a bit like how the dialogs with TIM after the resurrection can feel for paragon shepards, who really don't want to work with Cerberus under any circumstances... you don't want to click any of the options in the dialog... you can't but push the game in the direction you don't want it go)

Anyways... nobody in his sane mind would want BioWare to implement LI's like this. The player should always have control over his LI's. You don't want to flirt with same sex? Then simply don't. Problem solved.

Except that we don't currently have control, do we? All the women hit on male shep like crazy. Liara practically throws herself at him. Ashley flirts. Jack assumes his concerned enquiries are really about sex and/or romance. Miranda comes onto him after he expresses concern about her self-esteem. Tali finds an awkward way to let him know she has feelings for him. In not one of these cases does Shepard initiate the romance with anything other than friendly conversation or professional concern. It's bad enough that this happens with all the women, but if it started happening with the men too I'd be very annoyed.

That's not entirely true. You CAN pursue the LI's pretty easily, but can avoid them as easily. I don't want any of the male LI's with my femShep and i never had to "break" anyones heart, really. You only need to give a neutral or renegade answer at the beginning of the LI once and that's it. Until then nothing sleazy has happened. 

On the first page of this thread are a couple of suggestions in case this really should pose a problem. For example that all LI's are always triggered very obviously by the hero or even colored dialog choices. But in my view there's no need, it's so easy to avoid romances and you don't even need to be rude.

[onelifecrisis]

Nevermind. I googled that name and found a copy of the interview.



http://borderhousebl...?tag=ray-muzyka



Is this the one you've "debunked"?

[Servo to the bitter end]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I did a search in the FAQ for "Muzyka" to see if that's the same interview I read, and came up with nothing. Did you spell it right?

I guess not.  However...

Marketing

Didn’t you read the article by Mazuka?

Ray Mazuka said:
Here's
how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative,
where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character
at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your
character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more
a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is
who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more
choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're
different types of narratives, and that's intentional.

We're
not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous
games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in
Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those
kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a
defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's
just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but
enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality,
because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as
wide open. But that's by choice.

It's first person versus
third person narrative, and the types of choices you get to make within
that are related to that, whether you've got a pre-defined character or
a wide-open character. Some of our games have been wide open, and some
have been more constrained, and we'll probably continue both kinds of
character development in the future.
-From: http://xbox360.ign.c.../1066954p2.html 

Yes
we have and most of us have come to the conclusion that it made no
sense to have a predefined character for everything BUT sexual
orientation for male Shepards. This would mean playing Mass Effect as
anything other than default male "John" Shepard, the neutral/renegade
Soldier, would be "wrong" and technically shouldn't be allowed.

Shepard
is an N7 Operative and a Spectre. That's all that's set in stone.
Everything else - sex, personality, personal history, sexuality -
that's up to the player.

[Wittand25]

onelifecrisis wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

If the silent opposers are lurking I'm sure this thread would have caught their attention.  They would have read the OP of this thread and come upon the polls listed there.  I would think they would vote it, as it is anonymous.  Who's to say the silent opposers aren't voting?  I bet there are also silent supporters who voted as well.  These forums have tons of lurkers who just like to read topics for their own amusement, information about the game, etc. and have no intentions of participating in discussions.

This thread has 4000 views. ME2 was purchased by 2000000 gamers in the first... week? Fortnight? I forget. And that's just legitimate sales. Do the math.

I dare say the public statement by BW was read by a great many more than 4000 people. IIIRC, I found it when I googled "Mass Effect 3". And given the comments in this thread, it seems that a great many people interpreted that statement the same way I did. BW will be aware of that.

It was the interview for ign Xbox360 right ? The one where ign asks about a gay Shepard ?http://xbox360.ign.c.../1066954p1.html
That interview does not contain an answer, just a dodge by Dr. Muzyka. He never says that there never will be a homosexual Shepard, instead he dodges by making claims about different narrative stuctures of ME and DA (discussed and dismissed, check our group forum because I dont want to repeat everything here) and dropping the names of previous Bioware games.
Edit: Beaten again I really need to learn to post faster
@onlifecrisis: The border house article that you linked covers pretty much what we as group think of the Muzyka interview.

Modifié par Wittand25, 30 mars 2010 - 05:49 .

[onelifecrisis]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Some protesters seem to fear that with the inclusion of the option they will loose control over what happens aboard the Normandy. Specifically that Shepard suddenly responds flirtingly to people they don't think fit for a flirt and that they are somehow forced to click on those flirts... (Maybe a bit like how the dialogs with TIM after the resurrection can feel for paragon shepards, who really don't want to work with Cerberus under any circumstances... you don't want to click any of the options in the dialog... you can't but push the game in the direction you don't want it go)

Anyways... nobody in his sane mind would want BioWare to implement LI's like this. The player should always have control over his LI's. You don't want to flirt with same sex? Then simply don't. Problem solved.

Except that we don't currently have control, do we? All the women hit on male shep like crazy. Liara practically throws herself at him. Ashley flirts. Jack assumes his concerned enquiries are really about sex and/or romance. Miranda comes onto him after he expresses concern about her self-esteem. Tali finds an awkward way to let him know she has feelings for him. In not one of these cases does Shepard initiate the romance with anything other than friendly conversation or professional concern. It's bad enough that this happens with all the women, but if it started happening with the men too I'd be very annoyed.

That's not entirely true. You CAN pursue the LI's pretty easily, but can avoid them as easily. I don't want any of the male LI's with my femShep and i never had to "break" anyones heart, really. You only need to give a neutral or renegade answer at the beginning of the LI once and that's it. Until then nothing sleazy has happened. 

On the first page of this thread are a couple of suggestions in case this really should pose a problem. For example that all LI's are always triggered very obviously by the hero or even colored dialog choices. But in my view there's no need, it's so easy to avoid romances and you don't even need to be rude.

Avoid consummation, yes. Avoid being hit on? No, you can't avoid that in the Mass Effect games, and frankly I would not have enjoyed the games had all the male characters been hitting on me in the same way the females were (especially if turning them down meant the end of all conversation, as is the case with the women).

[Darth_Trethon]

This thread as well as its topic is dead. Only a handful of spammers keep bumping it back up. Let it go, nobody cares about or supports your weird fetishes.

[SimonTheFrog]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Nevermind. I googled that name and found a copy of the interview.

http://borderhousebl...?tag=ray-muzyka

Is this the one you've "debunked"?

That's the known stance of this CEO. Casey Hudson on the other hand said that Shepard is exactly the hero that we, as player, want him to be. With lots of options to choose from and many variations of looks, background, moral choices, interaction with other characters etc. etc... So, the project lead says exact the opposite to what the CEO says.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

This thread as well as its topic is dead. Only a handful of spammers keep bumping it back up. Let it go, nobody cares about or supports your weird fetishes.

If you really want it to fall off the first page, I suggest you refrain from posting.  Thanks for the bump, bro.

Back on topic - for people tuning in now, hit up the FAQ, which you'll find in the first three posts of this thread.  If you support the inclusion of this content, and you'd like to discuss it further, join the group!  Link in sig.

[Wittand25]

onelifecrisis wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Some protesters seem to fear that with the inclusion of the option they will loose control over what happens aboard the Normandy. Specifically that Shepard suddenly responds flirtingly to people they don't think fit for a flirt and that they are somehow forced to click on those flirts... (Maybe a bit like how the dialogs with TIM after the resurrection can feel for paragon shepards, who really don't want to work with Cerberus under any circumstances... you don't want to click any of the options in the dialog... you can't but push the game in the direction you don't want it go)

Anyways... nobody in his sane mind would want BioWare to implement LI's like this. The player should always have control over his LI's. You don't want to flirt with same sex? Then simply don't. Problem solved.

Except that we don't currently have control, do we? All the women hit on male shep like crazy. Liara practically throws herself at him. Ashley flirts. Jack assumes his concerned enquiries are really about sex and/or romance. Miranda comes onto him after he expresses concern about her self-esteem. Tali finds an awkward way to let him know she has feelings for him. In not one of these cases does Shepard initiate the romance with anything other than friendly conversation or professional concern. It's bad enough that this happens with all the women, but if it started happening with the men too I'd be very annoyed.

That's not entirely true. You CAN pursue the LI's pretty easily, but can avoid them as easily. I don't want any of the male LI's with my femShep and i never had to "break" anyones heart, really. You only need to give a neutral or renegade answer at the beginning of the LI once and that's it. Until then nothing sleazy has happened. 

On the first page of this thread are a couple of suggestions in case this really should pose a problem. For example that all LI's are always triggered very obviously by the hero or even colored dialog choices. But in my view there's no need, it's so easy to avoid romances and you don't even need to be rude.

Avoid consummation, yes. Avoid being hit on? No, you can't avoid that in the Mass Effect games, and frankly I would not have enjoyed the games had all the male characters been hitting on me in the same way the females were (especially if turning them down meant the end of all conversation, as is the case with the women).

Ahm the conversation for the males already ends just at the point where the romance dialog would start so you would not miss anything if the romances would get enabled (the same is true for the females).