7455 réponses à ce sujet

[onelifecrisis]

Yes we have and most of us have come to the conclusion that it made no

sense to have a predefined character for everything BUT sexual

orientation for male Shepards. This would mean playing Mass Effect as

anything other than default male "John" Shepard, the neutral/renegade

Soldier, would be "wrong" and technically shouldn't be allowed.



Shepard

is an N7 Operative and a Spectre. That's all that's set in stone.

Everything else - sex, personality, personal history, sexuality -

that's up to the player.

WHAT?



ROTF!



That's your big debunking? Jeez... I gave you guys too much credit.



Shepard is anything but a flexible character, in many more ways than just sexuality. He's a good guy, no matter what. There is no evil shepard, there's just differences in how far he will go. There's no shy Shepard, no weak Shepard, no super-intelligent or dim-witted Shepard. He's predefined, and the player has scope to shift his attitudes and morality just a little. If you want to pretend your Shepard is of your own making then you're more delusional than I thought. Sorry to be rude but that debunking is a joke.

[onelifecrisis]

Wittand25 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Some protesters seem to fear that with the inclusion of the option they will loose control over what happens aboard the Normandy. Specifically that Shepard suddenly responds flirtingly to people they don't think fit for a flirt and that they are somehow forced to click on those flirts... (Maybe a bit like how the dialogs with TIM after the resurrection can feel for paragon shepards, who really don't want to work with Cerberus under any circumstances... you don't want to click any of the options in the dialog... you can't but push the game in the direction you don't want it go)

Anyways... nobody in his sane mind would want BioWare to implement LI's like this. The player should always have control over his LI's. You don't want to flirt with same sex? Then simply don't. Problem solved.

Except that we don't currently have control, do we? All the women hit on male shep like crazy. Liara practically throws herself at him. Ashley flirts. Jack assumes his concerned enquiries are really about sex and/or romance. Miranda comes onto him after he expresses concern about her self-esteem. Tali finds an awkward way to let him know she has feelings for him. In not one of these cases does Shepard initiate the romance with anything other than friendly conversation or professional concern. It's bad enough that this happens with all the women, but if it started happening with the men too I'd be very annoyed.

That's not entirely true. You CAN pursue the LI's pretty easily, but can avoid them as easily. I don't want any of the male LI's with my femShep and i never had to "break" anyones heart, really. You only need to give a neutral or renegade answer at the beginning of the LI once and that's it. Until then nothing sleazy has happened. 

On the first page of this thread are a couple of suggestions in case this really should pose a problem. For example that all LI's are always triggered very obviously by the hero or even colored dialog choices. But in my view there's no need, it's so easy to avoid romances and you don't even need to be rude.

Avoid consummation, yes. Avoid being hit on? No, you can't avoid that in the Mass Effect games, and frankly I would not have enjoyed the games had all the male characters been hitting on me in the same way the females were (especially if turning them down meant the end of all conversation, as is the case with the women).

Ahm the conversation for the males already ends just at the point where the romance dialog would start so you would not miss anything if the romances would get enabled (the same is true for the females).

Heh - ignorance is bliss eh?

[Servo to the bitter end]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Nevermind. I googled that name and found a copy of the interview.

http://borderhousebl...?tag=ray-muzyka

Is this the one you've "debunked"?

That's the known stance of this CEO. Casey Hudson on the other hand said that Shepard is exactly the hero that we, as player, want him to be. With lots of options to choose from and many variations of looks, background, moral choices, interaction with other characters etc. etc... So, the project lead says exact the opposite to what the CEO says.

Let's not forget one very important fact - Femshep can identify as bisexual or homosexual.  Undeniably  and incontrovertibly.  Mshep cannot.  Why?  They're the same character, with the same defining characteristics, the same available backstories, and in most cases the same responses to a given situation.  

[Darth_Trethon]

TommyServo wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

This thread as well as its topic is dead. Only a handful of spammers keep bumping it back up. Let it go, nobody cares about or supports your weird fetishes.

If you really want it to fall off the first page, I suggest you refrain from posting.  Thanks for the bump, bro.

Back on topic - for people tuning in now, hit up the FAQ, which you'll find in the first three posts of this thread.  If you support the inclusion of this content, and you'd like to discuss it further, join the group!  Link in sig.

It was at the top when I replied just as it is now. I wouldn't have posted in it otherwise and I didn't.....I inteded to post that a few tinmes before but decided against bumping.

[onelifecrisis]

TommyServo wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Nevermind. I googled that name and found a copy of the interview.

http://borderhousebl...?tag=ray-muzyka

Is this the one you've "debunked"?

That's the known stance of this CEO. Casey Hudson on the other hand said that Shepard is exactly the hero that we, as player, want him to be. With lots of options to choose from and many variations of looks, background, moral choices, interaction with other characters etc. etc... So, the project lead says exact the opposite to what the CEO says.

Let's not forget one very important fact - Femshep can identify as bisexual or homosexual.  Undeniably  and incontrovertibly.  Mshep cannot.  Why?  They're the same character, with the same defining characteristics, the same available backstories, and in most cases the same responses to a given situation.  

Yeah, which is why femshep walks and talks like a man. Or, to put it another way, like a butch lesbian. Maybe that's why some people (I presume) think her lesbian side fits the game well.

[SimonTheFrog]

[quote]onelifecrisis wrote...


[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

[quote]onelifecrisis wrote...

[quote]SimonTheFrog wrote...

<snip>
[/quote]

<snip>
[/quote]

Avoid consummation, yes. Avoid being hit on? No, you can't avoid that in the Mass Effect games, and frankly I would not have enjoyed the games had all the male characters been hitting on me in the same way the females were (especially if turning them down meant the end of all conversation, as is the case with the women).
[/quote]

Garrus: "i had reach, she had flexibility"
Shepard: "we could ease the tension as well"... (sorry, don't recall the exact words) -> she starts the innuendo

Thane: "bla bla family"... etc.
Shepard: "i want you" -> She starts the innuendo

With Jacob i can't even remember because i'm usually not friendly to him from the beginning 
Shepard says her "I'm just interested in "talking" for a bit" - line which i avoid as much as possible.

With Kelly you can avoid being flirty right in the first dialog if you pick the neutral. And this continues through all dialogs.

I know that for males there are some occasions where you are being hit on (have only played it once, though) like Parasini and the Consort if you give the "wrong" answer.

And i can't recall the words for where the romance dialogs are triggered. But i remember that they were as obvious as for the female shep. 

Liara says she finds you "interesting"... it's not hitting at first because you are semi-prothean, so to speak. Then later you can very quickly say that she's gotta stay professional or "i feel the same way". So, its Shepard again who can set the course of where the dialog goes from there.

[Servo to the bitter end]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Yeah, which is why femshep walks and talks like a man. Or, to put it another way, like a butch lesbian. Maybe that's why some people (I presume) think her lesbian side fits the game well.

Nice.

Ok, say that Shepard, regardless of sex, is one person.  His/her orientation is static - Shepard only likes the ladies.  If that were true, that eliminates all the male romances as well.

This has come up before - Shepard is the Grey Warden with voice acting.  Everything Muzyka says in reference to DA applies to ME equally.

[SimonTheFrog]

onelifecrisis wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Nevermind. I googled that name and found a copy of the interview.

http://borderhousebl...?tag=ray-muzyka

Is this the one you've "debunked"?

That's the known stance of this CEO. Casey Hudson on the other hand said that Shepard is exactly the hero that we, as player, want him to be. With lots of options to choose from and many variations of looks, background, moral choices, interaction with other characters etc. etc... So, the project lead says exact the opposite to what the CEO says.

Let's not forget one very important fact - Femshep can identify as bisexual or homosexual.  Undeniably  and incontrovertibly.  Mshep cannot.  Why?  They're the same character, with the same defining characteristics, the same available backstories, and in most cases the same responses to a given situation.  

Yeah, which is why femshep walks and talks like a man. Or, to put it another way, like a butch lesbian. Maybe that's why some people (I presume) think her lesbian side fits the game well.

Jeez... that's a low one.

[onelifecrisis]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Jeez... that's a low one.

TommyServo wrote...

Nice.

What the... !?



You don't think she walks and talks like a man? You're actually offended at the suggestion? Are you serious?

[LiquidGrape]

onelifecrisis wrote...


You don't think she walks and talks like a man? You're actually offended at the suggestion? Are you serious?

Credibility waning.
Your previous groundless assumptions aside, I was never aware of that men or "butch lesbians" walk and talk in defined manners.
- I believe you'll find that most people will take offense to stereotyping.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 30 mars 2010 - 06:19 .

[SimonTheFrog]

Yes, she walks like a man. She especially orders drinks and dances like a man (not so sure about the talking, though)

So?

That's why she's reminding you of a lesbian? Or you think people get the impression she's a lesbian?



I'm not offended,... it's just childish that's all.

[Caprica9]

Yeah...this will never happen. Give it up guys.



And yes I did read your pointlessly lengthy opening post. All your ideas are silly, and man shep will never be homosexual.



You can hold me to these words, I'll buy you all ME3 DLC if I'm wrong.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Tali will never be available love interest. Give it up, there's no point in trying.

[KateKane]

Caprica9 wrote...

Yeah...this will never happen. Give it up guys.

And yes I did read your pointlessly lengthy opening post. All your ideas are silly, and man shep will never be homosexual.

You can hold me to these words, I'll buy you all ME3 DLC if I'm wrong.

You don't see it as just a little bit hypocritical of Bioware to allow FemShep to be gay but not ManShep? Honestly?

[SimonTheFrog]

Caprica9 wrote...

Yeah...this will never happen. Give it up guys.

And yes I did read your pointlessly lengthy opening post. All your ideas are silly, and man shep will never be homosexual.

You can hold me to these words, I'll buy you all ME3 DLC if I'm wrong.

Aye... maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. What's wrong in showing that we care?

So,... all DLC's free for everyone in the fight-for-love-group? Noted 

[Caprica9]

TommyServo wrote...

Tali will never be available love interest. Give it up, there's no point in trying.

That's some fantastic logic you have there. But you forget the part where the devs themselves said they weren't going to make him a homosexual because it wouldn't fit the personality they created for him. It makes since for The Warden since he was just a blank slate with no personality. 

Nothing against gays, but it won't happen. Sorry.

[The Uncanny]

Caprica9 wrote...

That's some fantastic logic you have there. But you forget the part where the devs themselves said they weren't going to make him a homosexual because it wouldn't fit the personality they created for him. It makes since for The Warden since he was just a blank slate with no personality. 

Which still skates around the issue of one Shepard being able to be bi/gay and one not. Why?

[Caprica9]

KateKane wrote...

Caprica9 wrote...

Yeah...this will never happen. Give it up guys.

And yes I did read your pointlessly lengthy opening post. All your ideas are silly, and man shep will never be homosexual.

You can hold me to these words, I'll buy you all ME3 DLC if I'm wrong.

You don't see it as just a little bit hypocritical of Bioware to allow FemShep to be gay but not ManShep? Honestly?

Never said I didn't. Maybe they feel that femshep being a lesbian is more plausible since she's more tough? Silly way of thinking, but you know, this is a male run society. 

And yes Simon, free DLCs. Screenshot my post and spam me with it if it ever happens.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

MShep's no less a blank slate than FemShep, and arguably no less a blank slate than Warden. Frankly, given the spread between 'I'd give thresher maws a chance to live if they would talk to me' and 'I'd shoot you all right now if there wasn't a mandatory dialogue plot hurdle,' I'm not seeing how Shep's game personality is in any way set (outside broader strokes of 9 potential background combos and the larger story arc). Not to mention how little it would impact his sexuality anyway - there's nothing about Shep's 'personality' in game that screams straight or gay. There's no mandatory sexing up of anyone to get the plot moving.

Actually, in that context, sexuality is even less relevant to Shepard (of either sex) than it is to Warden. Heterosexual sex doesn't magically spare your life in ME.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 30 mars 2010 - 06:49 .

[Caprica9]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

MShep's no less a blank slate than FemShep, and arguably no less a blank slate than Warden. Frankly, given the spread between 'I'd give thresher maws a chance to live if they would talk to me' and 'I'd shoot you all right now if there wasn't a mandatory dialogue plot hurdle,' I'm not seeing how Shep's game personality is in any way set. Not to mention how little it would impact his sexuality anyway - there's nothing about Shep's 'personality' in game that screams straight or gay.

Yeah no, if you're seriously going to sit there and tell me that Shepard has the same amount of personality as The Warden you're just being daft. 

[Cootie]

Besides, given the actual voices in the game that are 'locked' or 'tucked away' by BioWare, I'd say it's not such an alien concept. It was obviously up in the air for a moment.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Caprica9 wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

MShep's no less a blank slate than FemShep, and arguably no less a blank slate than Warden. Frankly, given the spread between 'I'd give thresher maws a chance to live if they would talk to me' and 'I'd shoot you all right now if there wasn't a mandatory dialogue plot hurdle,' I'm not seeing how Shep's game personality is in any way set. Not to mention how little it would impact his sexuality anyway - there's nothing about Shep's 'personality' in game that screams straight or gay.

Yeah no, if you're seriously going to sit there and tell me that Shepard has the same amount of personality as The Warden you're just being daft. 

Yeah. 'You're just being daft' isn't an actual argument. I don't see the difference.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 30 mars 2010 - 06:55 .

[Caprica9]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

Caprica9 wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

MShep's no less a blank slate than FemShep, and arguably no less a blank slate than Warden. Frankly, given the spread between 'I'd give thresher maws a chance to live if they would talk to me' and 'I'd shoot you all right now if there wasn't a mandatory dialogue plot hurdle,' I'm not seeing how Shep's game personality is in any way set. Not to mention how little it would impact his sexuality anyway - there's nothing about Shep's 'personality' in game that screams straight or gay.

Yeah no, if you're seriously going to sit there and tell me that Shepard has the same amount of personality as The Warden you're just being daft. 

Yeah. 'You're just being daft' isn't an actual argument. I don't see the difference.

Exactly.

[Cootie]

Repost for importance:



I would just like to make a quick post to everyone who supports this forum. I believe it is a very important message that gets lost in the huge opening post of this thread:



It is absolutely imperative that all supporters of a same sex relationship remain 100 civil, no matter what the situation may be. The point of this thread isn't to start fights with those that disagree. It's to showcase our argument as to why this matter should be addressed by Bioware.



Fighting with those that disagree is only hurting the cause. Not only does it make us look like aggressive whiners, but it makes our overall argument lose validity when the supporters can't respond to a negative post intelligently and without the same negativity.



So no matter what, no matter how hurtful, no matter how much a post makes you angry, please do not respond with snark. We must be better than those who resort to bashing a good cause. If you can't respond to any negative post civilly, then simply ignore it.

[Caprica9]

Cootie wrote...

Repost for importance:

I would just like to make a quick post to everyone who supports this forum. I believe it is a very important message that gets lost in the huge opening post of this thread:

It is absolutely imperative that all supporters of a same sex relationship remain 100 civil, no matter what the situation may be. The point of this thread isn't to start fights with those that disagree. It's to showcase our argument as to why this matter should be addressed by Bioware.

Fighting with those that disagree is only hurting the cause. Not only does it make us look like aggressive whiners, but it makes our overall argument lose validity when the supporters can't respond to a negative post intelligently and without the same negativity.

So no matter what, no matter how hurtful, no matter how much a post makes you angry, please do not respond with snark. We must be better than those who resort to bashing a good cause. If you can't respond to any negative post civilly, then simply ignore it.

I do agree that they should handle pointlessly rude posts better. But are you accusing me of "bashing"? I'm simply stating facts. If they can't handle it, they should probably get help for that.