7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Caprica9]

Well no it doesn't actually, because femshep being lesbian isn't too farfetched since she's "tough".



I think including a lesbian relationship for femshep was Bioware just catering to their male fans. Society as a whole (in America anyways) is much more comfortable with a lesbian relationship than a gay one.

[Arik7]

172 pages.  I  this thread.

Modifié par Arik7, 30 mars 2010 - 07:59 .

[Caprica9]

TommyServo wrote...

Caprica9 wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Caprica9 wrote...
I think Muzyka being CEO makes that pretty official.

So far, no official comments have unambiguously stated "no gay Shepard."

Read the blurb.  Read my emphasis.  Explain why you think that his words unambiguously answer that question.

Again, we've stated our position on this particularly quotation - you're just parroting.

If he stated what I stated then I think that pretty much answers your question.

He didn't.

Then how am I "parroting" him if he didn't?

[Lightice_av]

Well no it doesn't actually, because femshep being lesbian isn't too farfetched since she's "tough".

With the implication that straight woman couldn't be tough...? Yyeah...

I think including a lesbian relationship for femshep was Bioware just catering to their male fans.

Maybe. Did you know that Mass Effect has a large female playerbase, many who would be interested in gay male Shepard?

[onelifecrisis]

Lightice_av wrote...

I think Muzyka being CEO makes that pretty official.

You are assuming that he is saying what you think he is. Read more carefully; he consistently and deliberately avoids the root of the question, instead leading the discussion to a sidetrack - if you took it as a direct answer, it would be an outright lie, since FemShep can already be homosexual.

Of course he does. You don't get to be CEO without having some smarts. An outright "no, we will not have a gay male Shepard" would have given the press and pro-gay campaigners way too much ammunition. His meaning was clear, and I suspect that BW will not treat any poll as reliable until BW make a public statement to the opposite effect (that there may, in fact, be gay male relationships in ME3) because until then most potential voters will be thinking there is nothing to vote on.

[Lightice_av]

An outright "no, we will not have a gay male Shepard" would have given the press and pro-gay campaigners way too much ammunition.

This doesn't change the fact that he dodges the question instead of answering it. Saying anything definite without having a definite answer at hand is the most unwise option of all, and Muzyka didn't have any available.

[Cootie]

In my opinion, changes can always be made. If enough people complain and show an interest, Bioware might just nod and say 'Oh, okay, fine'.
But if no one complains, they'll live on in ignorance of the criticism. It is better to voice them than to not voice them, isn't it?

[Caprica9]

Lightice_av wrote...

Well no it doesn't actually, because femshep being lesbian isn't too farfetched since she's "tough".

With the implication that straight woman couldn't be tough...? Yyeah...

I think including a lesbian relationship for femshep was Bioware just catering to their male fans.

Maybe. Did you know that Mass Effect has a large female playerbase, many who would be interested in gay male Shepard?

"straight women can't be tough" Yeah that's what a lot of guys believe today. A girl who's tough will always be branded a b*tch or a ******.

Bioware didn't know ME would have such a big female following. And why are girls playing as men anyway when they can romance the guy as a girl? Yaoi fangirls shouldn't be catered to because a lot of them are children who shouldn't be playing Bioware games at all.

[Caprica9]

Lightice_av wrote...

An outright "no, we will not have a gay male Shepard" would have given the press and pro-gay campaigners way too much ammunition.

This doesn't change the fact that he dodges the question instead of answering it. Saying anything definite without having a definite answer at hand is the most unwise option of all, and Muzyka didn't have any available.

It's actually very wise if you don't want to offend the gay community.

[FataliTensei]

TommyServo wrote...

Caprica9 wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Caprica9 wrote...
I think Muzyka being CEO makes that pretty official.

So far, no official comments have unambiguously stated "no gay Shepard."

Read the blurb.  Read my emphasis.  Explain why you think that his words unambiguously answer that question.

Again, we've stated our position on this particularly quotation - you're just parroting.

If he stated what I stated then I think that pretty much answers your question.

He didn't.

If it's a non-answer, its non-answer...it's really easy to understand.

[Caprica9]

FataliTensei wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Caprica9 wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Caprica9 wrote...
I think Muzyka being CEO makes that pretty official.

So far, no official comments have unambiguously stated "no gay Shepard."

Read the blurb.  Read my emphasis.  Explain why you think that his words unambiguously answer that question.

Again, we've stated our position on this particularly quotation - you're just parroting.

If he stated what I stated then I think that pretty much answers your question.

He didn't.

If it's a non-answer, its non-answer...it's really easy to understand.

He stated it without stating it. It's a business strategy.

[Lightice_av]

"straight women can't be tough" Yeah that's what a lot of guys believe today. A girl who's tough will always be branded a b*tch or a ******.

You are most eager to perpetuate that stereotype, clearly.

Yaoi fangirls shouldn't be catered to because a lot of them are children who shouldn't be playing Bioware games at all.

As well as eager to follow other stereotypes along the way. I'd wager that as many women find gay men attractive as men who like lesbians. They're by far not children.

It's actually very wise if you don't want to offend the gay community.

Did you read what I said? Muzyka didn't say anything definite, because he didn't have a definite answer of any kind. ME3 has only started development. He only has vaguest knowledge of what it does or doesn't have.

[onelifecrisis]

Did you know that Mass Effect has a large female playerbase, many who would be interested in gay male Shepard?

That's at least the second time I've seen that claim. What exactly is the first part based on?

I just googled "Mass Effect Female Gamers" and, amusingly enough, this was the first result:

http://forums.gametr...hed-mas/1020095

[Servo to the bitter end]

Caprica9 wrote...

He stated it without stating it. It's a business strategy.

Here's the quote in full:

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at
IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay
relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous
absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance
for a lesbian relationship.

Mazuka:  Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person
narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are
that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about
defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass
Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined
character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice
matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined
character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's
intentional.

We're not saying that one approach is better than
the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did
in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the
future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's
more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and
worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the
choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a
deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining
one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice.

It's
first person versus third person narrative, and the types of choices
you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've got a
pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games have
been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll probably
continue both kinds of character development in the future.
-From: http://xbox360.ign.c.../1066954p2.html

Point out where it is implied then.

I don't think he's stating anything, implicitly or explicitly.  I think he's dodging the question.  We can look at the finished game and see where it contradicts what he says here.

Edit:  Added the question as well, for context.

Modifié par TommyServo, 30 mars 2010 - 08:18 .

[Lightice_av]

That's at least the second time I've seen that claim. What exactly is the first part based on?

This forum is a good place to start. Almost a good third of the people here I interact with regularly seem to be female according to their own words. That, and RPGs in general have larger female playerbases than other "hard core" game formats.

[Stormghost]

David endorses this thread!



There is no reason why they can't make same-sex romances an option in game. If you don't like it, don't have one, simples.



Also, Bioware have had plenty of same-sex relationships in other games, so it's nothing new...

[Caprica9]

Lightice_av wrote...

"straight women can't be tough" Yeah that's what a lot of guys believe today. A girl who's tough will always be branded a b*tch or a ******.

You are most eager to perpetuate that stereotype, clearly.

Yaoi fangirls shouldn't be catered to because a lot of them are children who shouldn't be playing Bioware games at all.

As well as eager to follow other stereotypes along the way. I'd wager that as many women find gay men attractive as men who like lesbians. They're by far not children.

It's actually very wise if you don't want to offend the gay community.

Did you read what I said? Muzyka didn't say anything definite, because he didn't have a definite answer of any kind. ME3 has only started development. He only has vaguest knowledge of what it does or doesn't have.

"eager to perpetuate a stereotype" 
Do you know anything of the real world? It's ran by men, this is how they think (at least most of them anyway.). I'd rather be rid of that silly way of thinking but that's how it is.

The average women does not find male/male relationships sexy. Average women outweigh the girls on this forum.

Didn't he make these comments during the development of ME2? And why do you think ME1 and 2 had dialog for same sex relationships but were removed from the game prior to release? It's obvious he isn't okay with it.

[Wittand25]

Caprica9 wrote...

Didn't he make these comments during the development of ME2? And why do you think ME1 and 2 had dialog for same sex relationships but were removed from the game prior to release? It's obvious he isn't okay with it.

No they are the response when ign expressed surprise because m/m is missing in ME2.
Regarding that m/m and f/f were considert if not outright planned my favorite not implenteted dialog :

Modifié par Wittand25, 30 mars 2010 - 08:28 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Caprica9 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

Well no it doesn't actually, because femshep being lesbian isn't too farfetched since she's "tough".

With the implication that straight woman couldn't be tough...? Yyeah...

I think including a lesbian relationship for femshep was Bioware just catering to their male fans.

Maybe. Did you know that Mass Effect has a large female playerbase, many who would be interested in gay male Shepard?

"straight women can't be tough" Yeah that's what a lot of guys believe today. A girl who's tough will always be branded a b*tch or a ******.

Bioware didn't know ME would have such a big female following. And why are girls playing as men anyway when they can romance the guy as a girl?

Can't imagine why they wouldn't have taken a female fanbase into account, seeing as their games have typically been very female friendly, with a fanbase to go with it. As for why "girls" are playing as "men," well, why do men play women characters? I guarantee you the reasons aren't very different, on the whole. Some people enjoy seeing the other sex of avatar in action (call it 'appealing ass' syndrome). Some enjoy the variant gameplay - they like to see how different variables play out.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Caprica9 wrote...
"eager to perpetuate a stereotype" 
Do you know anything of the real world? It's ran by men, this is how they think (at least most of them anyway.). I'd rather be rid of that silly way of thinking but that's how it is.

The average women does not find male/male relationships sexy. Average women outweigh the girls on this forum.

Didn't he make these comments during the development of ME2? And why do you think ME1 and 2 had dialog for same sex relationships but were removed from the game prior to release? It's obvious he isn't okay with it.

The average woman (or man - read: non-gaming community) probably isn't going to play Mass Effect, so their opinion doesn't matter.  In any event,  the lamentable state of gender politics is irrelevant to this thread.

If he was against this content, it would not have made the cut in any other Bioware games.  But it did.  The fact that it is only partially implemented in ME feels extremely out of place.

Modifié par TommyServo, 30 mars 2010 - 08:25 .

[Caprica9]

davidk1991 wrote...

David endorses this thread!

There is no reason why they can't make same-sex romances an option in game. If you don't like it, don't have one, simples.

Also, Bioware have had plenty of same-sex relationships in other games, so it's nothing new...

Exceot it won't happen. Not for male shep anyways. Sorry gay guys.

[Lightice_av]

Do you know anything of the real world? It's ran by men, this is how they think (at least most of them anyway.).

And you seem to be fine with this. Bioware has gone their way to fight against this stereotype by making grand majority of their lesbian love interests feminine and good-natured, and implementing straight tough women in their games. You might want to follow their example.

The average women does not find male/male relationships sexy. Average women outweigh the girls on this forum.

And you know this...from where? By my experience women aren't terribly different from men in their sexual interest - just a lot more quiet about it, again due to certain stereotypes of those who are not.

Didn't he make these comments during the development of ME2?And why do you think ME1 and 2 had dialog for same sex relationships but were removed from the game prior to release? It's obvious he isn't okay with it.

No, he made them after ME2 was finished. And he is not micromanaging these projects, and has no trouble with his company producing homosexual content for both genders. You're reading huge amounts of subtext into one simple verbal dodge.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

davidk1991 wrote...

David endorses this thread!

There is no reason why they can't make same-sex romances an option in game. If you don't like it, don't have one, simples.

Also, Bioware have had plenty of same-sex relationships in other games, so it's nothing new...

Thank you for your support. And yeah, I've not quite figured out how an optional m/m romance is so threatening to some, myself.

[KateKane]

Caprica9 wrote...

davidk1991 wrote...

David endorses this thread!

There is no reason why they can't make same-sex romances an option in game. If you don't like it, don't have one, simples.

Also, Bioware have had plenty of same-sex relationships in other games, so it's nothing new...

Exceot it won't happen. Not for male shep anyways. Sorry gay guys.

Ah yes, "facts."

[onelifecrisis]

TommyServo wrote...

If he was against this content, it would not have made the cut in any other Bioware games.  But it did.  The fact that it is only partially implemented in ME feels extremely out of place.

Oh, get real. Look at the market. Who is going to play a combat-heavy sci-fi RPG? BOYS! And by that I of course mean men. And if I may use another stereotype, it'll likely be mostly straight men. That's the mass effect market. It's not the same as the Dragon Age market, and the CEO knows it.