7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Lightice_av]

Oh, get real. Look at the market. Who is going to play a combat-heavy sci-fi RPG? BOYS! And by that I of course mean men. And if I may use another stereotype, it'll likely be mostly straight men. That's the mass effect market. It's not the same as the Dragon Age market, and the CEO knows it.

Which is undoubtedly why ME2 sees two carefully crafted female fanservice magnets, as well as the dark horse of the previous game promoted to a love interest. You're behind the times pal, as well as ignorant of the variety of options already present in the game.

[Caprica9]

Lightice_av wrote...

Do you know anything of the real world? It's ran by men, this is how they think (at least most of them anyway.).

And you seem to be fine with this. Bioware has gone their way to fight against this stereotype by making grand majority of their lesbian love interests feminine and good-natured, and implementing straight tough women in their games. You might want to follow their example.

The average women does not find male/male relationships sexy. Average women outweigh the girls on this forum.

And you know this...from where? By my experience women aren't terribly different from men in their sexual interest - just a lot more quiet about it, again due to certain stereotypes of those who are not.

Didn't he make these comments during the development of ME2?And why do you think ME1 and 2 had dialog for same sex relationships but were removed from the game prior to release? It's obvious he isn't okay with it.

No, he made them after ME2 was finished. And he is not micromanaging these projects, and has no trouble with his company producing homosexual content for both genders. You're reading huge amounts of subtext into one simple verbal dodge.

Oh yes, they're really trying to break the stereotype by making femshep a ****** since she's tough. And how would I "follow their example" ? Make a video game with strong women that aren't dykes? I have no interest in making video games.

"you seem to be fine with this"
Again, no reading comprehension.

And I know from all my female friends and peers who don't really have a taste for it. They find it funny or just weird.

And Mass Effect is a much bigger game than DA:O or Jade's Empire. So I imagine that he wouldn't want to draw too much controversy to it. Hence the cut down sex scenes.

[Caprica9]

KateKane wrote...

Caprica9 wrote...

davidk1991 wrote...

David endorses this thread!

There is no reason why they can't make same-sex romances an option in game. If you don't like it, don't have one, simples.

Also, Bioware have had plenty of same-sex relationships in other games, so it's nothing new...

Exceot it won't happen. Not for male shep anyways. Sorry gay guys.

Ah yes, "facts."

Ah yes, "false hope"

[KateKane]

Caprica9 wrote...

KateKane wrote...

Caprica9 wrote...

davidk1991 wrote...

David endorses this thread!

There is no reason why they can't make same-sex romances an option in game. If you don't like it, don't have one, simples.

Also, Bioware have had plenty of same-sex relationships in other games, so it's nothing new...

Exceot it won't happen. Not for male shep anyways. Sorry gay guys.

Ah yes, "facts."

Ah yes, "false hope"

And in what sense is our hope false? "It won't happen" isn't really a reason either. It's just you being negative.

[Lightice_av]

Oh yes, they're really trying to break the stereotype by making femshep a ****** since she's tough. And how would I "follow their example" ?

Er, no? Her potential sexuality is completely inconsequential to her personality. She can be straight as an arrow, if you want. She has the option to be lesbian or bisexual, but not as a direct response of being "tough".

And a good start would be to stop presenting the stereotype as a fact that needs to be obeyed, as you seem so eager to do in your posts.

And I know from all my female friends and peers who don't really have a taste for it. They find it funny or just weird.

And I know men who don't like lesbians. What about it?

And Mass Effect is a much bigger game than DA:O or Jade's Empire. So I imagine that he wouldn't want to draw too much controversy to it.

Never mind that Mass Effect 1 sold on the controversy, making bigger publicity and sales than any marketing campaign could have.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

onelifecrisis wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

If he was against this content, it would not have made the cut in any other Bioware games.  But it did.  The fact that it is only partially implemented in ME feels extremely out of place.

Oh, get real. Look at the market. Who is going to play a combat-heavy sci-fi RPG? BOYS! And by that I of course mean men. And if I may use another stereotype, it'll likely be mostly straight men. That's the mass effect market. It's not the same as the Dragon Age market, and the CEO knows it.

Even if true - and I'm doubtful, given that the dev company is Bioware as opposed to Epic Games - so what? All the better reason to include m/m as a romance option without fanfare, on par with the f/m and f/f romances. Maybe then in a few years there'd be fewer shooter fanbois running around being all threatened by the hint of man-on-man while simultaneously and without irony ogling depicted f/f romances.

Straight male gamers that have problems with representations of male homosexuality aren't the only gamer market out there - far from it. If this thread does nothing else, it should tell Bioware that.

[Stormghost]

I really don't understand why anyone would have a problem with same-sex romances in game. Honestly, can anyone explain what the problem actually is? If it's an optional choice, then it affects nobody unless they initiate it?



I understand that the biggest demographic who play the game is straight males, but that doesn't answer the question. I don't know one straight male who would exclude m/m relationships from a game just because they wouldn't choose it themselves.



Anyone know why some do?

[conquentor]

asari-man or asari-woman is ok, but human-human same sex will be discustting for most of the players

[RyrineaNara]

Caprica , I'm a female that does not find it weird. Plus, I'm not a lesbian, but still can kick your any time of the week.

Modifié par RyrineaNara, 30 mars 2010 - 08:49 .

[Servo to the bitter end]

KateKane wrote...
And in what sense is our hope false? "It won't happen" isn't really a reason either. It's just you being negative.

Seriously.  Tali was implemented as a LI due to the overwhelming support on these forums.  There's even developer commentary stating their surprise at her popularity.

And again - there are more people in favor of implementing this content in some way - and we've suggested a number of good ways that won't negatively impact anyone's game experience - than there are people who oppose it.  The number of people who don't care either way because they rightly assume that it wouldn't affect their game is greater than both groups.

That's why we have the forum and the polls - to give feedback on the game and characters, which we all love.  Hence this topic and our group.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Caprica9 wrote...

Oh yes, they're really trying to break the stereotype by making femshep a ****** since she's tough. And how would I "follow their example" ? Make a video game with strong women that aren't dykes? I have no interest in making video games.

"you seem to be fine with this"
Again, no reading comprehension.

And I know from all my female friends and peers who don't really have a taste for it. They find it funny or just weird.

And Mass Effect is a much bigger game than DA:O or Jade's Empire. So I imagine that he wouldn't want to draw too much controversy to it. Hence the cut down sex scenes.

Your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. FemShep is a strong woman. Period. She may be straight, she may be gay, she may be bi. None of these is more likely than any other - Bioware did not 'make her a ******'. classy language, by the way; no mistaking your opinions there.

As for sales, IIRC ME2 is coming in at about par with DA - the sales were much better than Bioware and EA were expecting. So the argument that ME is 'a much bigger game' (by which I assume you mean they were trying for broader appeal), not so much relevant. There's nothing indicating that they'd lose sales by including m/m in ME3. They have to include f/f anyway to resolve the Liara arc.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 30 mars 2010 - 08:50 .

[Caprica9]

RyrineaNara wrote...

Please, I'm a female, and I don't find it weird. I'm not a lesbian, but I still can kick your ass when I want too.

Yeah, you forget the part where I'm female. And I was already uncomfortable with the asari pseudo lesbianism. 

[Temper_Graniteskul]

conquentor wrote...

asari-man or asari-woman is ok, but human-human same sex will be discustting for most of the players

Yet there is Kelly Chambers, so I guess it's not that disgusting.

Totally ignoring that Liara is, for all model purposes, a blue human chick with weird hair. If it'd been Tali or Garrus, I might agree with you, but not Liara.

[Fade9wayz]

onelifecrisis wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

If he was against this content, it would not have made the cut in any other Bioware games.  But it did.  The fact that it is only partially implemented in ME feels extremely out of place.

Oh, get real. Look at the market. Who is going to play a combat-heavy sci-fi RPG? BOYS! And by that I of course mean men. And if I may use another stereotype, it'll likely be mostly straight men. That's the mass effect market. It's not the same as the Dragon Age market, and the CEO knows it.

I'm a girl, and I prefer heavy sci-fi settings to heroic-fantasy. Women might be a minority in the RPG playing fanbase, but does that mean we should be completely overlooked because of that reason? Of course not and luckily BW doesn't think so either. Besides, even if we are a minority, I bet we actually are a sizeable one, sizeable enough for BW wanting to cater to us at least or there wouldn't even be straight romances available for FShep, maybe not even a FShep at all.

[onelifecrisis]

Lightice_av wrote...

Oh, get real. Look at the market. Who is going to play a combat-heavy sci-fi RPG? BOYS! And by that I of course mean men. And if I may use another stereotype, it'll likely be mostly straight men. That's the mass effect market. It's not the same as the Dragon Age market, and the CEO knows it.

Which is undoubtedly why ME2 sees two carefully crafted female fanservice magnets, as well as the dark horse of the previous game promoted to a love interest. You're behind the times pal, as well as ignorant of the variety of options already present in the game.

None of that content affects the market I mentioned: straight men who want to play a straight male Shepard. Gay male content - even correctly implemented - would affect some of that market. And if it were implemented the same way that every single male shep romance so far has been implemented then it would affect much more of it. How much I cannot say. Nobody can for sure.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

conquentor wrote...

asari-man or asari-woman is ok, but human-human same sex will be discustting for most of the players

Yet there is Kelly Chambers, so I guess it's not that disgusting.

Totally ignoring that Liara is, for all model purposes, a blue human chick with weird hair. If it'd been Tali or Garrus, I might agree with you, but not Liara.

Also - 10 bucks says that, when we finally do see Tali's face, she's gonna be, for all intents and purposes, a blue/purple/some other color human chick with weird hair.  She's still human hot, either way.

Back on topic, though.

[Caprica9]

Lightice_av wrote...

Oh yes, they're really trying to break the stereotype by making femshep a ****** since she's tough. And how would I "follow their example" ?

Er, no? Her potential sexuality is completely inconsequential to her personality. She can be straight as an arrow, if you want. She has the option to be lesbian or bisexual, but not as a direct response of being "tough".
And a good start would be to stop presenting the stereotype as a fact that needs to be obeyed, as you seem so eager to do in your posts.

And I know from all my female friends and peers who don't really have a taste for it. They find it funny or just weird.

And I know men who don't like lesbians. What about it?

And Mass Effect is a much bigger game than DA:O or Jade's Empire. So I imagine that he wouldn't want to draw too much controversy to it.

Never mind that Mass Effect 1 sold on the controversy, making bigger publicity and sales than any marketing campaign could have.

The amount of men who don't like lesbians is no where near the amount of women who are't cool with gay sex.

I never said it was a fact, I just stated that it was the way people think. Femshep is hit on by many females in the game, her being lesbian or bi is hinted through out the game.

[Caprica9]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

conquentor wrote...

asari-man or asari-woman is ok, but human-human same sex will be discustting for most of the players

Yet there is Kelly Chambers, so I guess it's not that disgusting.

Totally ignoring that Liara is, for all model purposes, a blue human chick with weird hair. If it'd been Tali or Garrus, I might agree with you, but not Liara.

You can't have sex with Kelly.

[RyrineaNara]

Again Caprica, I find it humorous that you call yourself a female, No Female would be saying that all strong female characters have to be Lesbians. I hope you have fun living in your ignorance.



Yet, a lot of the female I have meat  at Cons are cool with gay sex as you put it.

Modifié par RyrineaNara, 30 mars 2010 - 08:58 .

[Lightice_av]

The amount of men who don't like lesbians is no where near the amount of women who are't cool with gay sex.

Feel free to bring up the statistics any time...

I never said it was a fact, I just stated that it was the way people think. Femshep is hit on by many females in the game, her being lesbian or bi is hinted through out the game.

The last time I checked, being hit on by someone hints nothing about the subject's sexuality by itself. Especially not when those who flirt with FemShep are asari who don't care about your sex, and Kelly Chambers who seems to hit on everything that moves.

[Fade9wayz]

Caprica9 wrote...

Yeah...this will never happen. Give it up guys.



And yes I did read your pointlessly lengthy opening post. All your ideas are silly, and man shep will never be homosexual.

This is just a matter of opinion. We think that if we make known to bioware that S/S relationship for MShep would be welcomed by a part of their fanbase and that many others wouldn't mind it even if they don't plan on pursuing it, then there might be a chance for it to be included in some way or another. Things change from one game to another and until the last of the Mass Effect games and expansion is published, anything can happen. Existing characters not romanceable in ME1 were altered accordingly to fanbase wishes. Similarly, it is not in the realm of impossibility for a M/M to happen. Dismissing it while not having reliable inside information from actual devs is just assumption, not fact. That you think our ideas are silly is your personal opinion too, we don't think they are and we could talk in circles like that until the end of times. If one player wants to think of MShep as gay, then he will be gay for that player. Just very unlucky in the romance departement. Adding this option would not hurt your game since there isn't any romance that is mandatory for the game to succeed, but it would improve someone else's.



And there is no reason for us to give it up if we don't want to. It's not like we require you to be there and lend us your shoulder if it effectively doesn't happen.

[Caprica9]

RyrineaNara wrote...

Again Caprica, I find it humorous that you call yourself a female, No Female would be saying that all strong female characters have to be Lesbians. I hope you have fun living in your ignorance.

And again, reasoning and comprehension is absent.

I never said I believed all females who are strong are dykes/b*tches. I said that's how the majority of men think. Watch The Devil Wears Prada and look at all the reactions to Meryl Streep's character. They call her a b*itch when really she's just being a good business woman. Shep is just being a good soldier and for some reason they feel that she MUST be a ****** because she can best a guy in a fight.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Lightice_av wrote...

The amount of men who don't like lesbians is no where near the amount of women who are't cool with gay sex.

Feel free to bring up the statistics any time...

I never said it was a fact, I just stated that it was the way people think. Femshep is hit on by many females in the game, her being lesbian or bi is hinted through out the game.

The last time I checked, being hit on by someone hints nothing about the subject's sexuality by itself. Especially not when those who flirt with FemShep are asari who don't care about your sex, and Kelly Chambers who seems to hit on everything that moves.

She also has to beat away pretty much every male LI with a stick.  In the old forum, someone memorably referred to ditching Kaidan as "like trying to peel an octopus off your face."

But yeah, what Lightice says - just because you get hit on by a female character doesn't mean she's gay.

[KateKane]

Caprica9 wrote...

I never said it was a fact, I just stated that it was the way people think. Femshep is hit on by many females in the game, her being lesbian or bi is hinted through out the game.

Being hit on by women indicates nothing about Shepards sexuality. Hitting on them, however, does. FemShep is not gay nor bi by default. That is left up to the player.

Edit: Damn. Ninja-ed

Modifié par KateKane, 30 mars 2010 - 09:01 .

[Caprica9]

Lightice_av wrote...

The amount of men who don't like lesbians is no where near the amount of women who are't cool with gay sex.

Feel free to bring up the statistics any time...

I never said it was a fact, I just stated that it was the way people think. Femshep is hit on by many females in the game, her being lesbian or bi is hinted through out the game.

The last time I checked, being hit on by someone hints nothing about the subject's sexuality by itself. Especially not when those who flirt with FemShep are asari who don't care about your sex, and Kelly Chambers who seems to hit on everything that moves.

Still doesn't change the fact that I (and many others) feel uncomfortable when/if they do.