7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

VentraleStar wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

We Samaras have to stick together...

You got that right?  But why are we sticking together?

Well, to uphold justice of course. Why else would asari justicars stick together?

[Atomic Space Vixen]

Raanz wrote...


If you are referring to Liara, well I don't think that is intended to be a homosexual relationship. Liara's race just so happens to resemble females. They mate with any race any gender.

I have to wonder how often this argument would come up if the mono-gendered species resembled big and hairy male Vikings and one of them was romancable by male Shepard. The only thing that's relevant is that when it comes to sex and attraction from a human standpoint, Liara is in every respect female. No heterosexual human female is going to look at her and think, "Well, she's from a species that only has one sex so... Come to momma!"
If the people making this argument could see themselves having sexual relationships with the afore-mentioned big, hairy, masculine mono-gendered Viking aliens because hey, it's not really gay because they ALL have tallywhackers, then maybe they might have a point. But until then, I really wouldn't mind seeing the last of this argument.

I'm still convinced that Mass Effect is a Bioware property that they have specific designs for and Shepard's sexuality is something they wanted to dictate...much like dictating that your ME1 LI would be protected through ME2. Like I said before, I really don't think it's a reflection on what they think of homosexuality, or peer or media pressure, it's just their choice. They designed and produced the game.

This one, on the other hand, is a little newer. However, as an argument it's just as bad. Bioware doesn't care what sex your Shepard is, whether she or he is good or bad,  and have provided a wide variety of early life experiences to choose from. The only things Bioware cares about with your Shepard is that she or he must become a Spectre, and if male, must be straight (despite orientation having nothing to do with the main story in any way).

The only explanation that makes any sense to me is that Bioware has made a shooter, and they want that shooter to appeal to 18-year-old men. They worry that putting "the gay" into the game will scare off too many of the homophobic 18-year-old men who might freak out when, "What the hell!?!? Did Kaiden just make a pass at me?!!?" And it saddens me that instead of reaching out and embracing people who rarely find representation in games, they'd rather take away character choice to placate those young shooter gamers.

[jlb524]

rynluna wrote...

Oh gosh, are there still people saying femshep isn't a lesbian because the Asari aren't female?  Do I have to break this out again?!

I have yet to find a straight FemShep that romanced Liara but I will keep searching!!!

[Fade9wayz]

Maybe she's a straight in the closet?

Modifié par Fade9wayz, 03 avril 2010 - 11:35 .

[Cootie]

Considering the dirty-ish magazine you can pick up at the citadel, I'd say that species have evolved to a phase where sexuality is of a certain... variety.

A wide scope, so to speak.



Gimme my Captain Jack Harkness-Shepard!

[FinchLynch]

I applaud Bioware for this. it's the 21st century. Homosexuality wasn't invented in the 70's to give Religious fanatics something to chew on. America is so far behind the tolerance quotent of our European counterparts that we all look like inbred rednecks to them. People should be able to live how they wish and gamers of a non-straight sexual orientation should have characters that share their preferences. That said, I am not sure how gay and lesbian organizations have received what takes place within ME1/ME2. I don't feel it explotive for the sake of exploitation but hardliners always have a different view.

Cootie wrote...

Considering the dirty-ish magazine you can pick up at the citadel, I'd say that species have evolved to a phase where sexuality is of a certain.

I bought this magazine and could not find it anywhere in my quarters. Either Shepard stashed it under the bed or the delivery boy kept it (probably that damn Mouse kid). I want my 4-5 space dollars back, Bioware.

[TafkanX]

I guess I ought to chime in on this whole issue. It doesn't really affect me one way or the other as I tend toward the straight relationships but I support the freedom to choose for yourself 100%. If someone of the same gender hits on me, I usually tell them I am flattered but straight. Most of the time it becomes a non-issue after that. Occasionally you run into somebody who is more persistent (read: obnoxious), but you run into this issue with straight people as well. Regardless, Bioware has done nothing to implicitly assign Shepard a sexual orientation and you should be able to choose which way he/she swings. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

* In retrospect, my little anecdote seems a bit out of place so for clarification that was to indicate that being hit on by a squadmate of the same gender would not need to be a big deal even if you don't swing that way.  Sorry about the shoddy paragraph structure.

Modifié par TafkanX, 04 avril 2010 - 05:50 .

[Fade9wayz]

FinchLynch wrote...

I applaud Bioware for this. it's the 21st century. Homosexuality wasn't invented in the 70's to give Religious fanatics something to chew on. America is so far behind the tolerance quotent of our European counterparts that we all look like inbred rednecks to them. People should be able to live how they wish and gamers of a non-straight sexual orientation should have characters that share their preferences. That said, I am not sure how gay and lesbian organizations have received what takes place within ME1/ME2. I don't feel it explotive for the sake of exploitation but hardliners always have a different view.

Ah, many European countries are open-minded, yes, but we have our own inbred rednecks too, sadly. There are suburbs in even Paris where advertising one's homosexuality is a very dangerous thing to do (admittedly they tend to be dangerous places regardless). Very religious countries like Poland still aren't the easiest place to live in when homosexual. On the other end, another very catholic country like Portugal has allowed homosexual marriages a few months ago. In my own country, though quite open-minded, things are different between more urbane and rustic regions.
However, we would certainly find ridiculous to make an issue, like Fox News would, of the fact that a video game may have the possibility for its main character to engage in homosexual relationships. Games like GTA are publicly frown upon because of their violence and lack of morality in performing it. Tasteful romances of any kind, and as long as it's clearly sold to mature enough customers will not raise an eyebrow, except for the "Why would you even want to romance a video game character?" reaction.
As it is neither Mass Effect or Dragon Age have garnered any media or political uproar.

I bought this magazine and could not find it anywhere in my quarters. Either Shepard stashed it under the bed or the delivery boy kept it (probably that damn Mouse kid). I want my 4-5 space dollars back, Bioware.

You too?

Modifié par Fade9wayz, 04 avril 2010 - 09:55 .

[Peppard]

Atomic Space Vixen wrote... 
The only explanation that makes any sense to me is that Bioware has made a shooter, and they want that shooter to appeal to 18-year-old men. They worry that putting "the gay" into the game will scare off too many of the homophobic 18-year-old men who might freak out when, "What the hell!?!? Did Kaiden just make a pass at me?!!?" And it saddens me that instead of reaching out and embracing people who rarely find representation in games, they'd rather take away character choice to placate those young shooter gamers.

I think you hit the nail on the head there.   They don't just fail to provide options for m/m.  Female shep almost has to  flirt with a girl sometimes to advance a sub-plot.      So there's this annoying hypocritical double standard far as player choice, all designed to please the male 18 year old shooter fan.    They clearly are not trying to placate those who object to homosexuality as a matter of some principle or the other, or else the f/f stuff wouldn't be there.  

I also have to agree with whoever mentioned Captain Jack Harkness.   He appeals to a female as well as male demographic.

[FataliTensei]

Peppard wrote...

Atomic Space Vixen wrote... 
The only explanation that makes any sense to me is that Bioware has made a shooter, and they want that shooter to appeal to 18-year-old men. They worry that putting "the gay" into the game will scare off too many of the homophobic 18-year-old men who might freak out when, "What the hell!?!? Did Kaiden just make a pass at me?!!?" And it saddens me that instead of reaching out and embracing people who rarely find representation in games, they'd rather take away character choice to placate those young shooter gamers.

I think you hit the nail on the head there.   They don't just fail to provide options for m/m.  Female shep almost has to  flirt with a girl sometimes to advance a sub-plot.      So there's this annoying hypocritical double standard far as player choice, all designed to please the male 18 year old shooter fan.    They clearly are not trying to placate those who object to homosexuality as a matter of some principle or the other, or else the f/f stuff wouldn't be there.  

I also have to agree with whoever mentioned Captain Jack Harkness.   He appeals to a female as well as male demographic.

Just looking at the gamplay in ME2 you can tell they pandered to the shooter crowd

[Cootie]

I'm giving this a disguised bump.

[The Uncanny]

Peppard wrote...

Female shep almost has to  flirt with a girl sometimes to advance a sub-plot.

I'm curious - which point in the story are you thinking of exactly?

Frankly, I'd love being forced to flirt with another girl to be something which drives the narrative.

[FataliTensei]

The Uncanny wrote...

Peppard wrote...

Female shep almost has to  flirt with a girl sometimes to advance a sub-plot.

I'm curious - which point in the story are you thinking of exactly?

Frankly, I'd love being forced to flirt with another girl to be something which drives the narrative.

Probably Samara's loyalty mission is what they're talking about

Modifié par FataliTensei, 05 avril 2010 - 05:51 .

[Guy On The Moon]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point



There are voice actors to these characters. Who knows whether Mark Meer, voice actor for Shepherd, would want to be apart of a homosexual scene or not, same goes for Yvonne Strahovski for Miranda, who know's whether she'd want to be apart of that. A lot of the actors in Mass Effect are a lot more popular than the actors in Dragon Age so they have an image.



They may personally be against that or may not feel comfortable being apart of that...so you never know

[LiquidGrape]

Guy On The Moon wrote...

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point

There are voice actors to these characters. Who knows whether Mark Meer, voice actor for Shepherd, would want to be apart of a homosexual scene or not, same goes for Yvonne Strahovski for Miranda, who know's whether she'd want to be apart of that. A lot of the actors in Mass Effect are a lot more popular than the actors in Dragon Age so they have an image.

They may personally be against that or may not feel comfortable being apart of that...so you never know

How is that a point?
If they consider themselves professionals, they'll read what ever script they've agreed to work on.
They are contractually obligated to do so. If they have personal objections they either pass on the project or leave them at the door.

[Ruud333]

Guy On The Moon wrote...

Who knows whether Mark Meer, voice actor for Shepherd, would want to be apart of a homosexual scene

Somehow I don't think he would mind

Modifié par Ruud333, 05 avril 2010 - 10:22 .

[ScotGaymer]

Guy On The Moon wrote...

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point

There are voice actors to these characters. Who knows whether Mark Meer, voice actor for Shepherd, would want to be apart of a homosexual scene or not, same goes for Yvonne Strahovski for Miranda, who know's whether she'd want to be apart of that. A lot of the actors in Mass Effect are a lot more popular than the actors in Dragon Age so they have an image.

They may personally be against that or may not feel comfortable being apart of that...so you never know

You obviously havent really read the first post or even much of this thread then.

Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale recorded 90% of the male/male and female/female romances with Kaidan and Ashley respectively right up until the sex cut scene. So I really dont think it was Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale who had the problem.

The gay romances were then cut RIGHT AT the sex cut scene for some odd reason. Odd because at that point the romance was pretty much finished so I dont see why they couldnt have did the last wee bit of work and implemented them.

Thats what a lot of people are getting at you know.

[Wittand25]

Guy On The Moon wrote...

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point

There are voice actors to these characters. Who knows whether Mark Meer, voice actor for Shepherd, would want to be apart of a homosexual scene or not, same goes for Yvonne Strahovski for Miranda, who know's whether she'd want to be apart of that. A lot of the actors in Mass Effect are a lot more popular than the actors in Dragon Age so they have an image.

They may personally be against that or may not feel comfortable being apart of that...so you never know

He did the VO for ME1

[Ryzaki]

Ruud333 wrote...

Guy On The Moon wrote...

Who knows whether Mark Meer, voice actor for Shepherd, would want to be apart of a homosexual scene

Somehow I don't think he would mind

[tyddrwsau]

Atomic Space Vixen wrote...

Raanz wrote...
If you are referring to Liara, well I don't think that is intended to be a homosexual relationship. Liara's race just so happens to resemble females. They mate with any race any gender.

I have to wonder how often this argument would come up if the mono-gendered species resembled big and hairy male Vikings and one of them was romancable by male Shepard. The only thing that's relevant is that when it comes to sex and attraction from a human standpoint, Liara is in every respect female. No heterosexual human female is going to look at her and think, "Well, she's from a species that only has one sex so... Come to momma!"
If the people making this argument could see themselves having sexual relationships with the afore-mentioned big, hairy, masculine mono-gendered Viking aliens because hey, it's not really gay because they ALL have tallywhackers, then maybe they might have a point. But until then, I really wouldn't mind seeing the last of this argument.

I approve of big, hairy, masculine space vikings - for the record.

A little more seriously, I've noticed an interesting dichotomy in arguments against the inclusion of same-sex romances, with regards to the alien squad mates.

On the one hand, femShep and Liara we're told are not a same-sex romance because Asari are monogendered (even though that gender is female, and all the rest). But when folks point out the radical species divide involved in romancing Garrus, Thane or Tali we're immediately told that this is a silly argument because there aren't really aliens like this in the world and these are fictional characters based off of our own selves.

A similar argument is that it would be completely out of character (alternatively "character assassination" "ruin the character") for an npc who is currently in the game, but does not have an option to romance the same sex in the released versions of the games. If we point out the alien species divide issue, or the partially developed same-sex romances in the game now, or the fact that no character identifies as straight we then hear that these are inadequate arguments because the aliens are fiction based on humans and a majority of humans are straight. It particularly perplexes me when these are used by the same person: it's "character assassination" for someone to express interest in the same sex when they haven't so far, but pointless for the characters to act as though they are anything but (the poster's assumption of) American thrill-jockeys in masks. Very odd.

[ScotGaymer]

tyddrwsau wrote...

I approve of big, hairy, masculine space vikings - for the record.

A little more seriously, I've noticed an interesting dichotomy in arguments against the inclusion of same-sex romances, with regards to the alien squad mates.

On the one hand, femShep and Liara we're told are not a same-sex romance because Asari are monogendered (even though that gender is female, and all the rest). But when folks point out the radical species divide involved in romancing Garrus, Thane or Tali we're immediately told that this is a silly argument because there aren't really aliens like this in the world and these are fictional characters based off of our own selves.

A similar argument is that it would be completely out of character (alternatively "character assassination" "ruin the character") for an npc who is currently in the game, but does not have an option to romance the same sex in the released versions of the games. If we point out the alien species divide issue, or the partially developed same-sex romances in the game now, or the fact that no character identifies as straight we then hear that these are inadequate arguments because the aliens are fiction based on humans and a majority of humans are straight. It particularly perplexes me when these are used by the same person: it's "character assassination" for someone to express interest in the same sex when they haven't so far, but pointless for the characters to act as though they are anything but (the poster's assumption of) American thrill-jockeys in masks. Very odd.

For the record Jack explicitly tells FemShep she aint interested in girls at one point im sure. And Mordin...well Mordin tells both ManShep and FemShep he isnt interested in non salarians at all; but does inform you that if he ever "does human" it would definately be with Shepard regardless of his/her sex.

I havent yet encountered any others claiming one way or the other.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 05 avril 2010 - 01:18 .

[LiquidGrape]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

For the record Jack explicitly tells FemShep she aint interested in girls at one point im sure. And Mordin...well Mordin tells both ManShep and FemShep he isnt interested in non salarians at all; but does inform you that if he ever "does human" it would definately be with Shepard regardless of his/her sex.

I havent yet encountered any others claiming one way or the other.

Actually, Jack doesn't explicitly say anything of the sort.
What she says is that she's "not looking to be part of the girls club".
The implications of that sentence doesn't necessarily suggest anything about her sexual orientation; it could just as well mean she's simply not inclined to bond with the female contingency aboard the Normandy.
Of course, since a Sheploo in the same situation is awarded with the possibility of romance, this would indicate that sexuality is the issue. But I wouldn't say it's carved in stone.

[jlb524]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Actually, Jack doesn't explicitly say anything of the sort.
What she says is that she's "not looking to be part of the girls club".
The implications of that sentence doesn't necessarily suggest anything about her sexual orientation; it could just as well mean she's simply not inclined to bond with the female contingency aboard the Normandy.
Of course, since a Sheploo in the same situation is awarded with the possibility of romance, this would indicate that sexuality is the issue. But I wouldn't say it's carved in stone.

Jack is odd, as her dialog, when talking about past relationships, is either gender neutral or includes both.  For example, 'I've been with lots of people.  If you're asking about a boyfriend or girlfriend then no.'