7455 réponses à ce sujet

[FataliTensei]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Casey Hudson is an idiot. WOW he said absolutely nothing pertaining to the question.

"Why can't fem shep romance Tali?"

Casey Hudson-

" The ship was built a second time because something happened to the first one. This game is alot more intense, but PG-13 intense. Every character has a unique and interesting romance. We diversified the number of characters you can romance. We made sure that combat was improved too.

Tali's romance is light and fun. She's a cute character! Ciao!!

WTF? Did he even hear the interviewer?? Severe case of ADD-******

I don't think calling casey and idiot is going to help us, sure picking apart what he said and calling it stupid is fine, but don't insult him directly, it won't help our cause at all.

[OrbitalWings]

Considering how much they skirt round the issue in interviews, either a) they can't stop themselves from spouting PR rubbish, or they don't want us to know the real reason the content was cut.



I mean....Casey claims it was extra work to add them - surely it's extra work to CUT them? We know ALL dialogue is recorded by both Shepard VAs. In ME1 the MaleShep/Kaidan & FemShep/Ashley scenes prove this.



In ME2 they wised up and did delete some of the dialogue files from the disc (though as I recall, there are still some FemShep lines buried on there somewhere that should only be in the Tali Romance)



Bottom line - it should have been EASIER to let the game do all romances for both genders, than program it to recognise gender and behave differently depending on it.

[Never]

I wish they could just take some kind of poll or something on things like this. Like, you answer a few questions when you register your game or something. I think there's a huge amount of customers who are straight but would still like to see s/s romances included.



Sorry that's a bit random in your discussion, just showing some support!

[Drakerex]

Guys first off get back to the topic... Stop spamming the crap out of the forum and u must admit that a gay sheppard is clearly not wise for a game ... Just get on with it..

[Lightice_av]

Guys first off get back to the topic... Stop spamming the crap out of the forum and u must admit that a gay sheppard is clearly not wise for a game ... Just get on with it..

You do realize that all the recent conversation directly relates to the topic? Or that your latter point is, y'know, disagreed by every thread regular?

Though it never stops to amuse me how those with your opinion keep bumping the thread up, and at least once saved it from oblivion by riling up the bored participants.

[HaloKT]

Metal-Dragon-Kiryu wrote...

Considering how much they skirt round the issue in interviews, either a) they can't stop themselves from spouting PR rubbish, or they don't want us to know the real reason the content was cut.

I mean....Casey claims it was extra work to add them - surely it's extra work to CUT them? We know ALL dialogue is recorded by both Shepard VAs. In ME1 the MaleShep/Kaidan & FemShep/Ashley scenes prove this.

In ME2 they wised up and did delete some of the dialogue files from the disc (though as I recall, there are still some FemShep lines buried on there somewhere that should only be in the Tali Romance)

Bottom line - it should have been EASIER to let the game do all romances for both genders, than program it to recognise gender and behave differently depending on it.

The reason is simple. They don't want another Fox News drama. What they did with ME1 was to create a game that was pushing boundaries. It was controversial at times, but that just added to its flair.
ME2 however is pure mainstream. It's a tried and true game concept. To add more to its mainstream appeal, they've stripped ANY controversy from it, including sex scenes and same sex romances. Taking a look at DAO, a game that was designed for a niche target group, it's apparent that the game is a lot more open-minded. Going further to DAA, the same self-censorship trend can be seen there as well. No romances, not even proper companion dialogues at "camp" anymore. It's possible that DA2 will be just as "controversy-free" as ME2 is.
Now, DAO was made by another dev group, and therefore I still have hopes for DA2. I've lost all hopes for the ME franchise however. It's obvious that the devs do not have any intention to return to the grittier, more controversial ME1.

@FataliTensei:
It's nice to see people still believing that there's still hope. However, I say nothing will help our cause. We're clearly not the target audience for BioWare. our cause is lost, and the only way we can "help" our cause is by not buying any future BioWare games and hope it makes enough of an impact (although I'd have to admit that no, it won't).

@mynameisdanza:
There are tons of male gamers who like to play female characters and also like to romance female companions. And, since female gamers are a valid demographic nowadays, there are likewise a lot of female gamers who like to play male characters who get it on with male companions. We're talking about perfectly straight people, many with boy/girlfriends or husbands and wives, who are just asking for more options. But oh well. This would be controversial. And we can't have that, can we?

[FataliTensei]

HaloKT wrote...

Metal-Dragon-Kiryu wrote...

Considering how much they skirt round the issue in interviews, either a) they can't stop themselves from spouting PR rubbish, or they don't want us to know the real reason the content was cut.

I mean....Casey claims it was extra work to add them - surely it's extra work to CUT them? We know ALL dialogue is recorded by both Shepard VAs. In ME1 the MaleShep/Kaidan & FemShep/Ashley scenes prove this.

In ME2 they wised up and did delete some of the dialogue files from the disc (though as I recall, there are still some FemShep lines buried on there somewhere that should only be in the Tali Romance)

Bottom line - it should have been EASIER to let the game do all romances for both genders, than program it to recognise gender and behave differently depending on it.

The reason is simple. They don't want another Fox News drama. What they did with ME1 was to create a game that was pushing boundaries. It was controversial at times, but that just added to its flair.
ME2 however is pure mainstream. It's a tried and true game concept. To add more to its mainstream appeal, they've stripped ANY controversy from it, including sex scenes and same sex romances. Taking a look at DAO, a game that was designed for a niche target group, it's apparent that the game is a lot more open-minded. Going further to DAA, the same self-censorship trend can be seen there as well. No romances, not even proper companion dialogues at "camp" anymore. It's possible that DA2 will be just as "controversy-free" as ME2 is.
Now, DAO was made by another dev group, and therefore I still have hopes for DA2. I've lost all hopes for the ME franchise however. It's obvious that the devs do not have any intention to return to the grittier, more controversial ME1.

@FataliTensei:
It's nice to see people still believing that there's still hope. However, I say nothing will help our cause. We're clearly not the target audience for BioWare. our cause is lost, and the only way we can "help" our cause is by not buying any future BioWare games and hope it makes enough of an impact (although I'd have to admit that no, it won't).

@mynameisdanza:
There are tons of male gamers who like to play female characters and also like to romance female companions. And, since female gamers are a valid demographic nowadays, there are likewise a lot of female gamers who like to play male characters who get it on with male companions. We're talking about perfectly straight people, many with boy/girlfriends or husbands and wives, who are just asking for more options. But oh well. This would be controversial. And we can't have that, can we?

oh i know we've probably lost the battle on ME, and I don't plan to buy future BW products, but i just figured that the extremely slim chance we have of getting it included won't go up at all if we start insulting Dev team members

[HaloKT]

Yeah, I agree on that. However, insulting people generally is rather rude and should be avoided. However, there is nothing idiotic in what he said. He just cannot openly state that "ME s a purely mainstream franchise now and we cannot have any controversial themes anymore". So that's why he skirts around the issue without saying anything.

[FataliTensei]

HaloKT wrote...

Yeah, I agree on that. However, insulting people generally is rather rude and should be avoided. However, there is nothing idiotic in what he said. He just cannot openly state that "ME s a purely mainstream franchise now and we cannot have any controversial themes anymore". So that's why he skirts around the issue without saying anything.

Is it just me, or does mainstreaming things ruin them?

[jlb524]

Metal-Dragon-Kiryu wrote...

In ME2 they wised up and did delete some of the dialogue files from the disc (though as I recall, there are still some FemShep lines buried on there somewhere that should only be in the Tali Romance)

Yes, there still is FemShep/Tali, FemShep/Jack, and FemShep/Miranda dialog that can be found on PC along with MaleShep/Thane.

Surprisingly, no MaleShep/Jacob or MaleShep/Garrus can be found.

I  thought they just didn't finish recording it, but that wouldn't make sense as the VA read from the same master script, I believe.   So, if they did purposely go back and delete these files to cover their butts, and prevent even PC users from unlocking and playing fully voiced s/s romances, then that makes me a bit peeeved.

[OrbitalWings]

Uhhhh.....guys.....

[Lightice_av]

Going further to DAA, the same self-censorship trend can be seen there as well. No romances, not even proper companion dialogues at "camp" anymore. It's possible that DA2 will be just as "controversy-free" as ME2 is.

I think you're reading way too much to that matter. They left romance subplots ouf of Awakening simply because it's not a full game and all the characters are clearly designed to be disposable, never to be seen again in the franchise. At least some of the old characters, including LIs are likely to return in the sequel proper, but allowing a relationship of any kind in Awakening that would never see any kind of continuation in the sequel would pointlessly rile up the fans.

So, if they did purposely go back and delete these files to cover their butts, and prevent even PC users from unlocking and playing fully voiced s/s romances, then that makes me a bit peeeved.

I suspect more likely that Thane was planned as a same-sex romance, while they weren't sure which female character would fulfill the same role. In the end everything got scrapped for the shady marketing reasons. I don't think that they would have purposefully deleted some of the remaining content on the disk, but left the rest untouched - they would have gone the whole way, if that was their goal.

Uhhhh.....guys.....

 
I think there's always MShep saying "I am not screwing Garrus!" somewhere...

Modifié par Lightice_av, 06 avril 2010 - 02:45 .

[jlb524]

Yeah, the Mordin sex talks are fully recorded for same-sex as well. Grrrrrrr!

[SnowHeart1]

Casey's answer really was just diarrhea of the mouth. "We wanted it to be special, so we didn't do it. We wanted it to be PG-13, and it was too racy. Oh, and yeah, Tali is pretty awesome, isn't she?" And Muzyka? Well, it's already been said... "We're all about choices, except when we're about Third Party Narratives, in which case you don't get choices, but choices are the most important part of the game... except when they're not... like when it's uncomfortable for me... gosh, is it hot in here?"



*grr* Honestly, that interview makes me think more than ever they're digging in their heels and same-sex romance will not be in ME3 or any ME game, ever. Blows.

[Ryzaki]

So assuming the devs are the ones who wanted the s/s romances in what's the point of this thread? It seems like their hands are tied by some high ups. (Seems the suit theory was true. ) This thread's purpose is to tell the developers there's support for it but the developer's already knew and were willing to support this. *sighs* I'm so bummed out right now.


PG-13....

Someone needs to read the rating on the back of the game box before saying anything. So in addition to a dictionary BW PR needs to learn the rating system too. You'd think after the last review they'd at least let someone who actually knows the game well to answer!

[jlb524]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

*grr* Honestly, that interview makes me think more than ever they're digging in their heels and same-sex romance will not be in ME3 or any ME game, ever. Blows.

I'm starting to think the same.  If this wasn't the case, Ray and Casey wouldn't be dodging these questions.  They'd come out and say, 'Look, we just didn't want to do it in ME2 for <insert reason here> but it's possible that we will in ME3.'  Instead, they're babbling on making up excuses for why it will never happen since same-sex romances don't 'fit' in with the ME games...'third person narrative...it's similar to a PG-13 action movie...blah blah blah!'

Casey did say in one interview that there will be one 'same-sex' romance in ME3...the continuation of the Liara/FemShep one.  The interviewer must have caught him on the rare day that he was willing to admit that this relationship is same-sex.  Will there be any other ones besides this 'psueudo-same-sex' romance?  It's not looking good.

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

So assuming the devs are the ones who wanted the s/s romances in what's the point of this thread? It seems like their hands are tied by some high ups. (Seems the suit theory was true. ) This thread's purpose is to tell the developers there's support for it but the developer's already knew and were willing to support this. *sighs* I'm so bummed out right now.

I am too.  It seems like we could create hundreds of these threads (hell, we have) and everyone and their mother can post in them showing support for same-sex romances.  The devs will read them and see the support and maybe even try to get them implemented in ME3, but ultimately their hands are tied by the suits.  If they want the game to be 'mainstream' and only show 'PG-13 sexual situations' just to rake in the cash, well, that's how it's going to be and mature and positive depictions of homsexual content will be cut.

This still doesn't prevent them from using and maybe even exploiting homosexual situations in game, as they did in ME2.  There are three cases of human homosexual behavior displayed in ME2...all female/female of course:

1)  Jack.  I'll explain this one a bit.  She flat out tells you she's had sex with women.  Is this because she's seriously attracted to women or values their companionship in a mature relationship?  No!  It's b/c she's one of those troubled, crazy straight chicks who have sex with women to please other men or for the hell of it b/c she's such a 'free-spirit'.   Yes, we get it, Jack's a loose canon...she like vandalized moons and blew up stuff.  Did you have to add sex with women into her backstory and trivialize those relationships?

2)  Nef.  I don't have to say anything here.

3) Kelly Chambers.  I don't have to say anything here.

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...
I am too.  It seems like we could create hundreds of these threads (hell, we have) and everyone and their mother can post in them showing support for same-sex romances.  The devs will read them and see the support and maybe even try to get them implemented in ME3, but ultimately their hands are tied by the suits.  If they want the game to be 'mainstream' and only show 'PG-13 sexual situations' just to rake in the cash, well, that's how it's going to be and mature and positive depictions of homsexual content will be cut.

I knew there was a reason I hated when my games went Mainstream. I hope Atlus doesn't start ruining my Persona. It wouldn't be the same without the occult symbols and suggestive behavior. Now I see why people get irritated when something non-mainstream becomes popular. I can finally feel their pain. Its not so much the fact that it is popular as the fact that what happens to the original product in the attempt to stay popular. 

This still doesn't prevent them from using and maybe even exploiting homosexual situations in game, as they did in ME2.  There are three cases of human homosexual behavior displayed in ME2...all female/female of course:

1)  Jack.  I'll explain this one a bit.  She flat out tells you she's had sex with women.  Is this because she's seriously attracted to women or values their companionship in a mature relationship?  No!  It's b/c she's one of those troubled, crazy straight chicks who have sex with women to please other men or for the hell of it b/c she's such a 'free-spirit'.   Yes, we get it, Jack's a loose canon...she like vandalized moons and blew up stuff.  Did you have to add sex with women into her backstory and trivialize those relationships?

2)  Nef.  I don't have to say anything here.

3) Kelly Chambers.  I don't have to say anything here.

Yeah that...seriously irritated me too. I mean if there's not going to be anything positive just leave it out all together please. It would be like if the only black character was a thieving, slaving, rapist and all around vile scumbag. That's not good.

Also I finally have a Shephard is predefined character poll. Let's see the results. http://social.biowar...94/polls/4296/

75% of the vote thinks he's not predefined.

And 25% do.


Okay I'm sorryy but I'm sick and tired of the Asari aren't females argument. Can someone please quote this in the FAQ:

There is some conflicting information regarding the gender of the asari. Though they resemble females, at least to humans, asari are non-gender specific, with no concept of gender differences. Liara says her species is "mono-gendered—male and female have no real meaning for us,"and, if asked, says that she is "not precisely a woman".

However,in the [/u]Codex it is stated that the asari are an all-female race. The Galactic
Codex: Essentials Edition 2183 says that "while asari have only one gender, they are not
asexual like single-celled life—all asari are sexually female", and according to Liara they also have maternal instincts. They are innately different from humans for asari can crossbreed with other
species and inherit certain traits.

Mono-gendered: Means one gender. Not none.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 avril 2010 - 04:26 .

[LPPrince]

On escapist, did I just read that right?



"According to Hudson, it was not only a question of time and effort, because BioWare didn't want to just reuse the same scene but with different characters, but also that it didn't fit with the general level of maturity BioWare wanted for the game."



"general level of maturity"



"maturity"



MATURITY!?



Another thing-



PG13? If ME2 was to be PG13, why wasn't it rated T for Teen?



Oh wait, that's right, because its supposed to be RATED R.



God, this is making me lose hope for ME3.

[catabuca]

I'm really, really disappointed with the comments from the devs in the Kotaku article, but it doesn't come as a surprise. Let's face it, at this point they're going to do everything in their power to skirt around the issue, and just hope we can keep our disappointment to a gentle simmer in this thread until ME3 is shipped and sold.



Their comments are insulting.

[Siansonea]

Excellent points, everyone. This is one of the most intelligent discussion on the entire Forum, and I am enjoying it even when it arouses my sense of injustice.



As for those who opt to boycott Bioware products, I am certain their response is "we don't care". Apparently the number of us who are insulted at their handling of same-sex romance is not great enough to affect the bottom line. M rating notwithstanding, Bioware is going for an E For Everyone demographic, and that means the people on the shores of the mainstream can easily be sacrificed if the mindless hordes will still line up at GameStop for Mass Effect 3.



I am not going to bother boycotting Bioware, but I have certainly lost respect for them. I probably will not purchase any of their other franchise offerings, since from my experience with Mass Effect, I know that they will always pick the path of least Fox New resistance. Microsoft will always have the last word, and they will not have their already dubious brand identity 'tainted' with homosexual publicity. And that means creativity will always be stifled, unless it involves breasts and guns.



My wish is that all the talented people who have worked on Mass Effect could get jobs working for other companies that don't put them in creative straight-jackets. If Bioware is just going to churn out lowest-common-denominator games, they shouldn't have access to top talent. The mindless hordes won't know the difference anyway.

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...

Excellent points, everyone. This is one of the most intelligent discussion on the entire Forum, and I am enjoying it even when it arouses my sense of injustice.

As for those who opt to boycott Bioware products, I am certain their response is "we don't care". Apparently the number of us who are insulted at their handling of same-sex romance is not great enough to affect the bottom line. M rating notwithstanding, Bioware is going for an E For Everyone demographic, and that means the people on the shores of the mainstream can easily be sacrificed if the mindless hordes will still line up at GameStop for Mass Effect 3.

I am not going to bother boycotting Bioware, but I have certainly lost respect for them. I probably will not purchase any of their other franchise offerings, since from my experience with Mass Effect, I know that they will always pick the path of least Fox New resistance. Microsoft will always have the last word, and they will not have their already dubious brand identity 'tainted' with homosexual publicity. And that means creativity will always be stifled, unless it involves breasts and guns.

My wish is that all the talented people who have worked on Mass Effect could get jobs working for other companies that don't put them in creative straight-jackets. If Bioware is just going to churn out lowest-common-denominator games, they shouldn't have access to top talent. The mindless hordes won't know the difference anyway.

I don't think its anyone from EA or MS. Because Lionhead studios is under MS and Fable has homosexual marriages for pete's sake!

...It was a suit...but it was probably a BW suit...which makes this even *more* annoying. <_<

I don't think EA or MS cares what is in the game as long as BW makes a certain profit margin.

[jlb524]

Siansonea II wrote...

As for those who opt to boycott Bioware products, I am certain their response is "we don't care". Apparently the number of us who are insulted at their handling of same-sex romance is not great enough to affect the bottom line. M rating notwithstanding, Bioware is going for an E For Everyone demographic, and that means the people on the shores of the mainstream can easily be sacrificed if the mindless hordes will still line up at GameStop for Mass Effect 3.

You are right that boycotting won't make a difference to them, but it will give the individuals who decide to do so peace of mind since they are no longer supporting this stuff.

Modifié par jlb524, 06 avril 2010 - 05:19 .