7455 réponses à ce sujet

[SimonTheFrog]

Lightice_av wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You liked Awakening?

Not as much as the main game, but it wasn't bad. But I don't consider it a sign towards cutting out the romance subplots in future Bioware publications. It just has a disposable cast that will not return in the sequels. The epilogue mentions your romance from the game if you had any, heavily implying that it can continue in DA2.
I haven't lost the hope for Bioware completely - somebody high up has just gotten overzealous about mainstreaming their leading product. I don't think that they expected such strong reactions to the point of major gaming sites questioning their judgement about the matter. It should make them realize that Bioware has always been famous for its wide variety of options in gameplay, and that whereas mainstream gamers come and go, nothing can replace a loyal fanbase who appreciate what they are actually good at.

It's a business calculation: you loose the people who liked ME for it's interesting characters and wide choice options and you win the people who like to shoot aliens while leveling up and watching lots of cutscenes. It seems they made the clever choice there concerning the quantity of players.

ME3 will probably be a powerstruggle between the people in BioWare that liked the stuff that made BioWare famous and respected by it's community and the people that think quantity of players steamrolls all other decisions. 

Anyhow, i'm done for now with this franchise. This last article was the final blow. It's ok having to live with the missing content (if it were for the right reasons) but it's not ok being bs'ed and basically being mocked about it by the honchos. 

As a costumer i have a choice. So, here you go...

[ValendianKnight]

I would HATE it if BioWare made any of the already established characters homosexual, well, because THEY AREN'T. It would kill consistency if all of a sudden Thane became bi-sexual. Now, if they want to add a brand new character, and make him/her gay/lesbian/bisexual, I'm all for it. I think the more options the better, and I would definitely make a Shepard to explore those options.

I do NOT, however, think this is something BioWare needs to go out of their way to add, especially if it can get in the way of the quality of ANY other part of the game.

Modifié par ValendianKnight, 06 avril 2010 - 08:23 .

[catabuca]

Good for you Simon.



It's two issues now, isn't it? First there was the fact that s/s content was cut and it appeared that Bioware was backpedaling on their reputation as this great, inclusive and cutting-edge developer; and then there was the utter lack of respect for the loyal fans (many of whom had been with Bioware since early games) in the avoidance of the issue, the refusal to honestly answer any questions, and the spouting of insulting idiocy when they were confronted with a question they absolutely couldn't squirm out of answering.



The first one was the wound; the second one was an entire bucketload of salt.

[Ryzaki]

catabuca wrote...

Good for you Simon.

It's two issues now, isn't it? First there was the fact that s/s content was cut and it appeared that Bioware was backpedaling on their reputation as this great, inclusive and cutting-edge developer; and then there was the utter lack of respect for the loyal fans (many of whom had been with Bioware since early games) in the avoidance of the issue, the refusal to honestly answer any questions, and the spouting of insulting idiocy when they were confronted with a question they absolutely couldn't squirm out of answering.

The first one was the wound; the second one was an entire bucketload of salt.

This isn't really the devs fault though. Their hands are probably tied in this matter.

[LiquidGrape]

ValendianKnight wrote...

I would HATE it if BioWare made any of the already established characters homosexual, well, because THEY AREN'T. It would kill consistency if all of a sudden Thane became bi-sexual.

See, that's the thing. It wouldn't. Because no characters sexuality has ever been explicitly defined.

[Lightice_av]

I would HATE it if BioWare made any of the already established characters homosexual, well, because THEY AREN'T. It would kill consistency if all of a sudden Thane became bi-sexual.

The thing is, a person can be bisexual and not explicitly show it. As long as the option is written well, there should be no problem. It certainly shouldn't just be dropped out of nowhere, but none of the characters explicitly deny the possibility either, so all they'd really need was a good explanation why they didn't mention it sooner.

I'm still rather bitter about that tease with Tali that gets no kind of closure - it would have been better if she said she wasn't interested, or unambigiously just built up friendship with FemShep. Instead she starts flirting, and then shuts up with no continuation.

[Bhirava]

Get rid of same sex EVERYTHING, it all must GOOOO!!!

[SorenTrigg]

As has been stated many many times before, *anyone* can be bisexual despite their past. No one in the games has ever said 'I only like x' except Shepard under some circumstances.



Tali and Garrus suddenly liking Shepard didn't kill their characters, so try to have some faith in Bioware.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Lightice_av wrote...

I would HATE it if BioWare made any of the already established characters homosexual, well, because THEY AREN'T. It would kill consistency if all of a sudden Thane became bi-sexual.

The thing is, a person can be bisexual and not explicitly show it. As long as the option is written well, there should be no problem. It certainly shouldn't just be dropped out of nowhere, but none of the characters explicitly deny the possibility either, so all they'd really need was a good explanation why they didn't mention it sooner.
I'm still rather bitter about that tease with Tali that gets no kind of closure - it would have been better if she said she wasn't interested, or unambigiously just built up friendship with FemShep. Instead she starts flirting, and then shuts up with no continuation.

Also, it's only really important to be consistent in a given story arc. 

ME, despite what some people like to say, is a fairly open ended narrative.  I clearly don't think Shepard is pre-defined in the way that Muzyka says s/he is, and I think that it extends to the crewmates too, to some extent.  For the purposes of the story, they are there to interact with Shepard on his or her terms.  "August Shepard" through his interactions, could end up with Kaiden, just as "Sarah Shepard" can end up with him through hers.

This why anyone who gripes about "character assassination" sounds stupid to me.  Each playthrough of ME is its own distinct story, populated by a different cast of characters, with different temperments and different motivations, depending on Shepard.  Some can die. Some can do character 180s.  Some of them can end up not even figuring into the story at all.  There is no "canon" Shepard, but there's no canon Wrex, Garrus, Ashley, or Kaidan, just to name a few examples.

At least, that's what I think.  Sometimes I'm frustratingly inarticulate.  I can try to re-phrase it, if anyone wants.

Modifié par TommyServo, 06 avril 2010 - 09:01 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

ValendianKnight wrote...

I would HATE it if BioWare made any of the already established characters homosexual, well, because THEY AREN'T. It would kill consistency if all of a sudden Thane became bi-sexual. Now, if they want to add a brand new character, and make him/her gay/lesbian/bisexual, I'm all for it. I think the more options the better, and I would definitely make a Shepard to explore those options.

I do NOT, however, think this is something BioWare needs to go out of their way to add, especially if it can get in the way of the quality of ANY other part of the game.

How do you know they aren't? I ask this seriously. The Garrus romance, for example, appears to be rooted extensively in respect and admiration for Shepard, not any particular attraction to female human anatomy. Arguably, this relationship is less about hetero/homosexual than it is about mutual respect - IIRC, doesn't Garrus even say he doesn't have a human fetish? Jacob and Miranda have a history dating each other, but no one else is really mentioned. Similarly, Jack has no history of meaningful relationships, sexual or otherwise; her involvement with a male/female couple is mentioned, but there's no real indication of her own preferences.

Mostly, this is a matter of opinion. I don't think it would affect anything negatively if one or more (or all) NPCs were romanceable by either sex of Shepard in ME3. I don't see bisexuality as any more outside the realm of possibility (especially for the non-humans) than declared hetero/homosexuality - something which no NPC has explicitly stated, so far.

Also, Bioware's certainly spent time and resources to add heterosexual flings with very little depth, including a strip tease by a female for an ostensibly male gaze. They doubled the number of potential sexual encounters for no discernable reason. They seem to think - by warrant of its inclusion - that romances are important things to add to and keep in the game; they are things that do not appear to 'get in the way of the quality' of the rest of it. So why and how would including a gay romance be going out of their way?

I'm not quite sure where the idea comes from that including an s/s romance would necessarily divert resources away from some nebulous awesome thing that the game might otherwise have. Hell, if they have to trade one of their hetero romances for a gay one just to keep things in some unspecified balance, I'm all for that. Goodness knows everyone's got plenty of m/f options to choose from, at this point.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 06 avril 2010 - 09:05 .

[LiquidGrape]

TommyServo wrote...

 "August Shepard" through his interactions, could end up with Kaiden, just as "Sarah Shepard" can end up with him through hers.

I know this isn't strictly on-topic, but I just love that you chose August as the proverbial Sheploo.

[Servo to the bitter end]

LiquidGrape wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

 "August Shepard" through his interactions, could end up with Kaiden, just as "Sarah Shepard" can end up with him through hers.

I know this isn't strictly on-topic, but I just love that you chose August as the proverbial Sheploo.

My two MSheps are August and Algernon.

[Siansonea]

Lightice_av wrote...

I would HATE it if BioWare made any of the already established characters homosexual, well, because THEY AREN'T. It would kill consistency if all of a sudden Thane became bi-sexual.

The thing is, a person can be bisexual and not explicitly show it. As long as the option is written well, there should be no problem. It certainly shouldn't just be dropped out of nowhere, but none of the characters explicitly deny the possibility either, so all they'd really need was a good explanation why they didn't mention it sooner.
I'm still rather bitter about that tease with Tali that gets no kind of closure - it would have been better if she said she wasn't interested, or unambigiously just built up friendship with FemShep. Instead she starts flirting, and then shuts up with no continuation.

You mean people don't announce their sexuality upon first meeting a new individual? I thought that was the custom. I guess I should stop saying "Hi, I'm Siansonea, heterosexual female" to people. I wondered why I was getting all those odd looks...

[LiquidGrape]

TommyServo wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

 "August Shepard" through his interactions, could end up with Kaiden, just as "Sarah Shepard" can end up with him through hers.

I know this isn't strictly on-topic, but I just love that you chose August as the proverbial Sheploo.

My two MSheps are August and Algernon.

Hats off, coolest names ever for a saviour of the universe.
My own two are referred to as Tristan and Erasmus.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Thanks! I know it's not an MMO or anything like that, but I still like to separate myself from the legion of Johns and Janes (or any other miktoasty name) that undoubtedly exist. Not that I mean to cast aspersions on anyone - my primary femshep, as you probably took from that post, is Sarah - but playing August or Algernon just feels great. /namenerding



Erasmus Shepard = amazing though!

[Siansonea]

I also support the increasingly unlikely inclusion of same-sex romance in ME3.

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...

I also support the increasingly unlikely inclusion of same-sex romance in ME3.

XD

But this...really...sucks.

Then again...at least I can be sure DA2 will have M/M. The first one did and BW is consistent at least.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 avril 2010 - 09:53 .

[Servo to the bitter end]

Awww.

For what it's worth, I still support the possibility of its inclusion in a free DLC. Optimist by nature.

[LiquidGrape]

This thread needs some livenin' up.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

TommyServo wrote...

Awww.
For what it's worth, I still support the possibility of its inclusion in a free DLC. Optimist by nature.

Ditto.

But then, I still hold out hope for a patch that allows those of us with 360s to enjoy the s/s goodness available to PC users through the mods, and those on the PC to access the content without mods. I can has Kaidan, plz?

[mjboldy]

Here's Bioware's latest reason for excluding s/s relationships in ME

... We kind of pulled back and looked at where we had to draw the line in terms of how much content we make. How much should we support?", states Casey Hudson. "So we kind of pulled back and said, 'Well, the love interest is part of the story and it helps you care about the characters in a different way.' We still view it as ... if you’re picturing a PG-13 action movie. That’s how we’re trying to design it. So that’s why the love interest is relatively light.

And here I was worried they were actually going to give an actual reason... <_<

http://www.destructo...-2-170051.phtml

Modifié par mjboldy, 06 avril 2010 - 10:21 .

[Atomic Space Vixen]

Perhaps Bioware could take a page from the Itawamba County School District, release a version of ME3 that's nothing but the romance options we're asking for (and I mean nothing but - no quests, no battles, just romance options), and secretly tell everyone who would be offended by such a thing where to buy the full game.

Because this is what exclusion leads to, Bioware... news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_lesbian_prom_date

Yes, I doubt this would ever happen with BW. But there's a reason inclusion matters.

[Ryzaki]

Atomic Space Vixen wrote...

Perhaps Bioware could take a page from the Itawamba County School District, release a version of ME3 that's nothing but the romance options we're asking for (and I mean nothing but - no quests, no battles, just romance options), and secretly tell everyone who would be offended by such a thing where to buy the full game.

Because this is what exclusion leads to, Bioware... news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_lesbian_prom_date

Yes, I doubt this would ever happen with BW. But there's a reason inclusion matters.

Eh that was more of a case of morons being morons.

I just hope that BW would be willing to release a deluxe edition with all of the s/s romance options that they removed and/or decativated back on the disc. Then those who feel uncomfortable can avoid it by simply avoiding the deluxe eidition and they could make a nice sum of money in return.

Wouldn't hurt if this deluxe edition came out on PS3 either BW. :innocent:

[WetbiscuitMcGee]

It's the future ladies and gents!

http://social.bioware.com/brc/1429522 ' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'> http://social.bioware.com/brc/1429522  Thanks!