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[Siansonea]

casedawgz wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

SorenTrigg wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Are there any gentlemen here? I was under the impression that most of us who regularly post on this thread are female.

I am actually male, and gay. I just prefer to play a female Shepard.
And yes, I wish there were more F/F options. I was very sad about not being able to romance Tali.

I think there are many of us who do not necessarily play the game as 'ourselves'. I play males and females equally, and I like for there to be numerous social options in the game, as I like my Shepards to be as different from one another as possible. I don't want to simply play the same options over and over. Female Shepards basically have only two and a half romantic options, Garrus, Thane, and Kelly. I'm sorry, but Jacob just doesn't count. That only gives me three viable female character paths, if I want more variation I have to introduce it via the Paragon/Renegade axis. That isn't as fun.

There's at least ONE redeeming element to the Jacob romance. He's the only LI of either gender who actually expresses concern for Shepard's problems; you can open up to him about survivors guilt, the burden of command, or feeling that the world passed you by while you were dead.

That is a point I had not considered, perhaps I should allow one of my female Shepards to pursue a romance with him. I've been relying on videos from YouTube to form my opinion so far. In the one playthrough where I was going to romance Jacob, I switched to Garrus because the dialogue between Shepard and Jacob was just awful in my opinion. The undertone was distinctly sordid, I kept wondering what woman in a position of authority would talk to a male subordinate this way. Jacob's responses were also unappetizing.

I think another thing that caused me to dislike Jacob was his interaction with Tali after Haestrom. I won't go into detail because of spoilers, but some of the things he said did not sit well with me.

[casedawgz]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...
 And I am supposed to be the bad guy because I believe homosexuals should keep such business behind closed doors and not in the public realm? Ha!

Intolerance is typically a bad thing, yeah.

That's what it boils down to in general. There's plenty of straight men and women alike who are pro same sex coupling. Just because you don't agree with someone's viewpoint or lifestyle doesn't mean they should have to sweep it under the rug because it makes some peoples' tummies hurt with icky feelings.

Honestly, if the potential inclusion of same sex pairings get so much flak in a video game of all things, there's pretty much no hope of it ever truly being accepted in the real world.

Especially when you consider that the m/m sex scene would probably be about as graphic as touching heads with Garrus.

[Siansonea]

casedawgz wrote...

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...
 And I am supposed to be the bad guy because I believe homosexuals should keep such business behind closed doors and not in the public realm? Ha!

Intolerance is typically a bad thing, yeah.

That's what it boils down to in general. There's plenty of straight men and women alike who are pro same sex coupling. Just because you don't agree with someone's viewpoint or lifestyle doesn't mean they should have to sweep it under the rug because it makes some peoples' tummies hurt with icky feelings.

Honestly, if the potential inclusion of same sex pairings get so much flak in a video game of all things, there's pretty much no hope of it ever truly being accepted in the real world.

Especially when you consider that the m/m sex scene would probably be about as graphic as touching heads with Garrus.

True, anyone who gets a gay panic tummyache from a Mass Effect 'sex scene' really needs to see a gastroenterologist.

[Geso]

Jacob's a nice guy. And nobody likes nice guys.Especially women.

[Mimaiselphenai]

Geso wrote...

Jacob's a nice guy. And nobody likes nice guys.Especially women.

Garrus is a nice guy! He's just a cooler nice guy.

[Ryzaki]

Geso wrote...

Jacob's a nice guy. And nobody likes nice guys.Especially women.

Say that to the droves of Alistiar fangirls.

[casedawgz]

I used to like Alistair but over repeated playthroughs I found myself starting to get incredibly sick of him.

[Mimaiselphenai]

It's just because Jacob reminds everyone of Kanye West.







Nobody likes Kanye West.

[Hollywoodsilk08]

Thanks for all the great replies and yes I'm thinking of myself but do we have to ask the developers to provide everything we would like as individuals? should there be a Lesbian version of ME2 for us men who would rather see F/F. Or maybe just DLC? Who knows what the future holds but wouldn't surprise me. and I'm not saying I care or don't care if there is M/M but I don't want to see it so please keep it for DLC.

[casedawgz]

"I'm a genius. Fishsticks are breaded, and delicious. Perhaps the breaded nature of the fishsticks somehow...interacts with my genius?"

[Mimaiselphenai]

Hollywoodsilk08 wrote...

Thanks for all the great replies and yes I'm thinking of myself but do we have to ask the developers to provide everything we would like as individuals? should there be a Lesbian version of ME2 for us men who would rather see F/F. Or maybe just DLC? Who knows what the future holds but wouldn't surprise me. and I'm not saying I care or don't care if there is M/M but I don't want to see it so please keep it for DLC.

Uh...Asari? Kelly Chambers? Asari?

[Geso]

He has good renegade interrupts though.

[MsKlaussen]

Siansonea II wrote...

I believe it is a worthwhile task to call attention to injustice where it is found, big and small. To simply accept it goes against my nature. I have no personal stake in the inclusion of same-sex romances in the game outside of expanding the options for some of my Shepards, but I do not like seeing any group marginalized for the sake of capitulating to social pressure from any side. I would be equally against it if they suddenly made Shepard completely athiest, with no choice in the matter, though I myself am agnostic.

The conservatives are clearly winning this fight, since m/m content does not exist in the final release version of Mass Effect 2, and if the rest of us simply throw up our hands and say nothing, Bioware will be under the mistaken impression that their decision is universally accepted, perhaps even universally applauded. I do not wish for anyone to enjoy that misapprehension.

Perhaps I need to clarify my position here. I don't advocate meek acceptance of injustice, nor do I practice it. I do however, prioritize my battles and attempt to sort necessities from preferences, as any other rational individual trying to keep stress to a dull roar would.

I do however, abhor labels. So "conservatives", "phobics", "flat-earthers", etc. are an easy way for those not interested in my opinions to opt-me out of discussions like this.

I would like to finish my response to an interesting point you made in the other thread in your reply to me where you asserted that play style has nothing to do with this discussion. I have to disagree completely.

Play style in my opinion, is this entire discussion in fact, assuming first that this is supposed to be about the inclusion of game content and not a debate on the validity or wholesomeness of homosexuality. Bioware built framework upon which Shepard exists as his/her own entity. If Shepard is played as such, in other words as a character and not an avatar as you put it earlier, there is no omitted content. There is the content Bioware decided to include, and the content they decided to exclude.

The game lacks content in this area only when one attempts to redefine Shepard in ways that the game does not allow for. In this instance, the player is injecting portions of their own identity into the character that it does not support out of the box. It only becomes "a problem" and an injustice if  a player's gaming style demands that their character adhere to their own identity and/or belief system.

I am a SecondLife resident also, and there is a similar argument there regarding whether or not people are being dishonest and unethical if they do not adhere to their own gender with their avatars. Some see their avies as containers with which they interact, and that's all. Others see their avies as completely separate people, and role play as that person. Neither is right or wrong. But try to convince one side of the other's validity, lol.

You could raise hell. You could boycott the game - vote with your wallet. Is this issue a dealbreaker - one that, had you known would not change after ME1, would have prevented your purchase of ME2? If it is, one has all the time in the world to prevent making the same mistake twice with ME3. If not, what does it really matter what Bioware's "excuse" is? Simply enjoy the game for what it offers.

Modifié par MsKlaussen, 08 avril 2010 - 09:46 .

[Mimaiselphenai]

casedawgz wrote...

"I'm a genius. Fishsticks are breaded, and delicious. Perhaps the breaded nature of the fishsticks somehow...interacts with my genius?"

Hah!

[BellatrixLugosi]

casedawgz wrote...

"I'm a genius. Fishsticks are breaded, and delicious. Perhaps the breaded nature of the fishsticks somehow...interacts with my genius?"

Yo Casedawgz Im happy for you and ima let you finish BUT SIANSONEA II HAS THE BEST QUOTES OF ALL TIME OF ALL TIME!!!!

[Mimaiselphenai]

MsKlaussen wrote...

I would like to finish my response to an interesting point you made in the other thread in your reply to me where you asserted that play style has nothing to do with this discussion. I have to disagree completely.

Play style in my opinion, is this entire discussion in fact, assuming first that this is supposed to be about the inclusion of game content and not a debate on the validity or wholesomeness of homosexuality. Bioware built framework upon which Shepard exists as his/her own entity. If Shepard is played as such, in other words as a character and not an avatar as you put it earlier, there is no omitted content. There is the content Bioware decided to include, and the content they decided to exclude.

The game lacks content in this area only when one attempts to redefine Shepard in ways that the game does not allow for. In this instance, the player is injecting portions of their own identity into the character that it does not support out of the box. It only becomes "a problem" and an injustice if  a player's gaming style demands that their character adhere to their own identity.

I am a SecondLife resident also, and there is a similar argument there regarding whether or not people are being dishonest and unethical if they do not adhere to their own gender with their avatars. Some see their avies as containers with which they interact, and that's all. Others see their avies as completely separate people, and role play as that person. Neither is right or wrong. But try to convince one side of the other's validity, lol.

You could raise hell. You could boycott the game - vote with your wallet. Is this issue a dealbreaker - one that, had you known would not change after ME1, would have prevented your purchase of ME2? If it is, one has all the time in the world to prevent making the same mistake twice with ME3. If not, what does it really matter what Bioware's "excuse" is? Simply enjoy the game for what it offers.

I know you were directing your post at someone else, but I'm bored. =P

First of all, I think the main argument is that there's already F/F romance in the game. So it's not that Bioware is excluding homosexual content entirely, just one facet of it. That would be the "injustice," if I'm not mistaken. Female on female romance scenes in the game are just dandy, but two men still carries unnecessary stigma. If they're going to include one side of it, why not go all the way? It's the inclusion of being able to romance Kelly Chambers, a human female, that sets ME2 apart from ME1, as you could only romance one Asari in the game (though let's not kid ourselves, that's just as much lesbianism as anything else). I hate having to come back to that point over and over, but people keep overlooking it.

As for SecondLife, there's a big difference between obscurring your gender in an online game or any form of social interaction over the internet, and your own private experience in a single player game. Not that I have a stake in what people do in the former either way.

And lastly, this thread is for the sake of discussion, right? Nobody's trying to raise hell, just expressing their opinions. I think it's safe to say the majority of players for same sex romances won't stop buying Bioware products if it's not included in ME2 DLC or ME3.

[Mimaiselphenai]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Mimaiselphenai wrote...
Honestly, if the potential inclusion of same sex pairings get so much flak in a video game of all things, there's pretty much no hope of it ever truly being accepted in the real world.

IMO this statement is being short sided and very pessimistic.  The Gay Community has made progress in modern Western Society in terms of acceptance. 

So have "minorites." Doesn't mean there aren't still racists.

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

Geso wrote...

Jacob's a nice guy. And nobody likes nice guys.Especially women.

Very true.

Actually I don't think this is necessarily true. Kaidan is/was a nice guy, and I do like that character.

[RenownedRyan]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

It's just because Jacob reminds everyone of Kanye West.



Nobody likes Kanye West.

I'm a Kanye fan.

[Siansonea]

Do I raise hell? I don't feel like I do. I think I approach most things pretty dispassionately and logically, though sometimes I can be sarcastic. I try to control that tendency.