7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

I agree it was done tastefully, I just don't think it's necessary, and if you're going to have nudity, at least diversify it, in ME1 it was all the same.

[Collider]

Having liked women, or still liking women, and also liking men, are not mutually exclusive. Until the writers tell me Kaidan doesn't like men I can believe he does. And I will. So there. *stamps foot petulently*

Liking woman sexually actually precludes you from being gay. I didn't say he doesn't like men, you can imagine all you want. But thinking he IS gay when he says all those things is quite a bit more imaginative. You've the freedom to, but you'd also have to explain why Kaidan is indicating that he likes women sexually all these times. remember, there is no homophobia in Mass Effect that we know of.

[catabuca]

In terms of nudity - it makes no difference to me in the slightest whether we see side boob or arse crack. It's all about the emotional journey for me.

It's nice that there isn't a 'fade to black' moment after a tender kiss, because that can feel like a bit of a cop out sometimes, but it's always going to be difficult for the devs to get the balance right about what to show and what to imply/keep hidden.

Emotionally I preferred ME1's romances. This is entirely subjective (and may also be, in part, because I feel more emotionally attached to ME1 as a game than ME2 anyway), and I don't deny that there was some great story writing with, for example, Jack's paragon romance. It may have been the way Shepard's dialogue was written and voiced in ME2 - but I felt that Shepard (male or female) was a more sexually aggressive character in this game. I'm not saying they wanted to rape everyone or something, but that sex featured as a more important part of the game as a whole (across all romances when taken on average) than ME1. I believed Shep cared about Jack, but I never felt that depth of committment that was there in ME1. I accept that perhaps not everyone felt that way, but that's how it appeared to me.

In terms of the graphic design of the love scenes, I greatly appreciated the scenes being different for each character. It was a nice touch to have Miranda's in a different part of the ship. At the same time, even though they were essentially cut and paste jobs, I did prefer the cinematics of the ME1 scene. Something about the softness of the blue light, the tight camera angle, the intimicy of the bodies together. It seemed more about two people sharing an intimate moment than in ME2. I haven't played Tali's romance (nor will I), but I've watched that scene on youtube. I understand it's deeply emotional for many who play it, and perhaps I'd feel the same if I did (which I won't).

I don't think there needs to be skin on show for it to be emotional and intimate. I think it's combination of the journey to that point (which is more important to me anyway), and the art direction depicting that intimacy in a tender way.

Of course, there wasn't anything tender about the renegade Jack scene and I understand it was in there because it provides another choice for people to role play, but man it wasn't satisfying.

[Siansonea]

I think one thing we all agree on is that when romances and other social interactions are handled in a mature, naturalistic way, they are successful. When the writing is off, the whole thing is a waste of time. Good writing and a light touch of humor saves the Garrus romance from being complete dreck, in my opinion, though I still find it improbable. If the Jacob romance didn't amount to Shepard basically saying 'hey baby wanna shag?' and having Jacob say 'not yet, but I liiiike where this is going my priiiize' I probably would like the Jacob character better in general. Combat-wise he's still a waste of time, but if he had a better personality, I'd at least appreciate him on that level.



I am currently doing a run-through with my male Renegade Infiltrator, who is romancing Jack (in the Paragon way), so I'm looking forward to seeing how that plays out. I just wish my poor male Paragade Sentinel had a s/s option, as it stands now he'll probably romance Miranda. I simply can not go there with Tali.

[Mimaiselphenai]

slimgrin wrote...

Hmmm...I guess I feel they shouldn't tiptoe around adult issues. If a character likes the opposite sex - make them gay, not bisexual. If  two characters have sex, show some skin - cause that is what happens. Its a reality.

To not show these things is an immersion breaker for me. It says "I'm a PG, even if you're an adult.."

But I shall quit harping on the issue.

Making a character bisexual or "pansexual" as opposed to the black and white of straight or gay isn't tiptoeing. Hell, that'd be more realistic in the ME setting to me than anything else, but I guess it's all perspective.

[Ryzaki]

slimgrin: you forgot about the whole PG-13 action flick nonsense. >_> This is no longer an adult game.

[Siansonea]

Collider wrote...

Having liked women, or still liking women, and also liking men, are not mutually exclusive. Until the writers tell me Kaidan doesn't like men I can believe he does. And I will. So there. *stamps foot petulently*

Liking woman sexually actually precludes you from being gay. I didn't say he doesn't like men, you can imagine all you want. But thinking he IS gay when he says all those things is quite a bit more imaginative. You've the freedom to, but you'd also have to explain why Kaidan is indicating that he likes women sexually all these times. remember, there is no homophobia in Mass Effect that we know of.

I agree with this, Kaidan has established that he does like women. If he also likes men, he is bisexual, but Kaidan can't believably become exclusively homosexual in my opinion. If he decides to have a relationship with a Male Shepard, he would be in a gay relationship, but the fact that he has shown in other scenarios that he is open to romance with women means he would have to put his desire for women aside while he is with Male Shepard. I'm sure monogamous bisexuals have to do this all the time.

[Siansonea]

Mimaiselphenai wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Hmmm...I guess I feel they shouldn't tiptoe around adult issues. If a character likes the opposite sex - make them gay, not bisexual. If  two characters have sex, show some skin - cause that is what happens. Its a reality.

To not show these things is an immersion breaker for me. It says "I'm a PG, even if you're an adult.."

But I shall quit harping on the issue.

Making a character bisexual or "pansexual" as opposed to the black and white of straight or gay isn't tiptoeing. Hell, that'd be more realistic in the ME setting to me than anything else, but I guess it's all perspective.

I agree with this. I don't think having Shepard's s/s love interest be a bisexual is a compromise, because there would still be at least one gay male in the game: Shepard himself. Of course it would be very cool if Shepard also had the option of being bisexual as well as exclusively homosexual. And I think by 2185 it will be less about which boxes you check on a sex survey and more about who you are as a person. We are not our sexual preferences, that is simply an aspect of our whole personality. Too often people get caught in the questions of whether someone is gay, bi or straight, and really, does it matter? Those are just adjectives, they describe an individual. They do not define an individual.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 12 avril 2010 - 09:37 .

[Mimaiselphenai]

Siansonea II wrote...


I agree with this, Kaidan has established that he does like women. If he also likes men, he is bisexual, but Kaidan can't believably become exclusively homosexual in my opinion. If he decides to have a relationship with a Male Shepard, he would be in a gay relationship, but the fact that he has shown in other scenarios that he is open to romance with women means he would have to put his desire for women aside while he is with Male Shepard. I'm sure monogamous bisexuals have to do this all the time.

I can't imagine it's much different than any straight or gay person in a monogomous relationship. Unless someone is only bisexual for the convenience of playing both fields, and the temptation of the "other half" is always lingering. Though, I doubt people like that are often in monogomous relationships to begin with. =P

[Ryzaki]

slimgrin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

slimgrin: you forgot about the whole PG-13 action flick nonsense. >_> This is no longer an adult game.

Tis true. Speaking of which, go to gametrailers and check out the latest video for GTA. I have never played the game, but If I had to judge from the gameplay footage I have seen, and the trailers...I am so glad Bioware hasn't sunk to this level.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

/shrug

Its GTA wasn't overly mature in the first place. Though trailer wasn't that bad. Even if it was a little...ugh.

[catabuca]

I agree that while it would be good for BW, or any games developer, to feature an exclusively gay or lesbian character, I also don't think that having a bisexual one is necessarily tiptoeing. And yes, it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine a future where sexuality is accepted as a more fluid thing, and such terms are either less meaningful or don't exist at all.

Now, my lesbian friend I mentioned earlier - she disagrees. But then she's working within the context of having done a lot of academic work on LGBT representations within American entertainment media, where the focus on bisexuality is generally more troubling. So her angle is on challenging these stereotypes and subtexts as they occur now, rather than imaging what society might be like in the ME future

[STG]

Here's one for you:



Can aliens even be gay?

[Ryzaki]

STG wrote...

Here's one for you:

Can aliens even be gay?

With their own species most likely.

Wait...would you be considered bisexual if you liked to get it on with dogs of your own gender but not male humans?

[Servo to the bitter end]

It depends on how you want to define it. Casey Hudson has taken the position that there are no same sex relationships portrayed in ME at all, because Liara isn't human.

[Mimaiselphenai]

Ryzaki wrote...


Wait...would you be considered bisexual if you liked to get it on with dogs of your own gender but not male humans?

No, but you'd be considered an animal abuser.

[catabuca]

TommyServo wrote...

It depends on how you want to define it. Casey Hudson has taken the position that there are no same sex relationships portrayed in ME at all, because Liara isn't human.

Naw, he falls back on the whole 'asari aren't female' crap.

I'm sorry dude, but mono-gendered means 1 gender. And that gender is female. Read your own codex >.<

[catabuca]

STG wrote...

Here's one for you:

Can aliens even be gay?

Only if they recognise the concept 'gay'.

[Servo to the bitter end]

catabuca wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

It depends on how you want to define it. Casey Hudson has taken the position that there are no same sex relationships portrayed in ME at all, because Liara isn't human.

Naw, he falls back on the whole 'asari aren't female' crap.

I'm sorry dude, but mono-gendered means 1 gender. And that gender is female. Read your own codex >.<

I must have been getting his obtuse arguments mixed up with someone else's.  Although it's not impossible that he's trotted out both excuses.

In any event, I think I misinterpreted STG.  I was thinking in terms of "Can aliens even be (in a) gay( relationship with Shepard)?" and maybe opening up the whole "is it homosexual if it's interspecies?"

If it's just "can aliens even be gay" then what Ryzaki said.  Of course they can.

Edit:

catabuca wrote...

Only if they recognise the concept 'gay'.

Good point.

Modifié par TommyServo, 12 avril 2010 - 09:59 .

[STG]

slimgrin wrote...

I would say yes. Since other species In Mass Effect have both genders.

Yes they have both genders, I am just wondering something else. We humans can be attracted to members of same sex, but it doesn't seem too crazy for example that turians in their hystory never had a case of homosexualism. Maybe their genetic structure or stuff like that (weak on biology, sorry) simply makes becoming attracted to same sex impossible, regardless of race.