7455 réponses à ce sujet

[Servo to the bitter end]

lastpatriot wrote...

Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

Oh.

[Ryzaki]

lastpatriot wrote...

Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

And that matter's because? 

*resist urge to link toward God/Lucifier slash she found on FFN*

Edit: I just read the god/lucifier fic and...it was good...O_o Like...really good.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 avril 2010 - 03:42 .

[LiquidGrape]

[Ryzaki]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Why is it in the scifi section? Shouldn't it be in either historical fiction or fantasy? 

[lastpatriot]

You people have no sense of humor......

[spacehamsterZH]

lastpatriot wrote...

Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

LOL.

I love how you first try to make an argument about character and storytelling consistency (which actually makes perfect sense in principle, the question is whether that applies here or not), and now that you realize that you can't maintain that argument, you resort to dumb homophobic sloganeering. Awesome. Make up your mind already. Shouldn't take long, what with the roughly four brain cells.

[Siansonea]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

lastpatriot wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

lastpatriot wrote...

Shepard is supposed to be the iconic hero and dedicated soldier. To allow for same-sex romance would destory the core values of the character he/she was created to be.

Were Bioware to change this aspect of the game for ME3, I for one would not buy it out of principal.

Wow... that's just so sick!   AAGGGH, my eyes are burning!

Actually, I played my FemShep pretty much based on how I would actually act in the situations we're faced with in the game (yeah... I'm an RPG fan to the core).  With that being the case, I had no idea there were lesbian options unti I saw some of the threads on this site.

Not quite seeing how gay LI options would "destroy the core values of the character" Shep is, though. Especially since (as had been repeatedly stated) no one would be forced to play them through, and lesbian/bisexual Shepard already exists. I hadn't noticed my space marine become less competent at their job because of someone else's Liara/FemShep romance. Apparently you didn't notice it, either.

So what was the problem, again?

Who knows? It would probably make Jesus mad or something. Usually when phrases like 'core values' are thrown around it's a code for conservative Christianity. In most cases when I've attempted to peel back the 'reasoning' on intolerant viewpoints like these, there's a Bible at the very bottom. I am not superstitious, and I don't suscribe to any world religion (including atheism), so I don't see how it is fair to force a religious viewpoint on others that don't share it. And before the obvious rebuttal of 'forcing' homosexual content on the player comes up, let me just say that like everything else in the game, it would be an OPTION, not something the player is forced to pursue. As it is, the player is forced to identify as asexual, male heterosexual, female heterosexual, female bisexual or female homosexual. There are legitimate options missing here, and it's simply unfair and backward to continue to exclude these options.

I also find it funny when the 'core values' phrase is bandied about, especially since Shepard's morality in the game is up to the player to decide. Yes, Shepard can murder people in cold blood, but he's a red-blooded American male, and he ain't no gay homosexual, y'all. Yeeeeeehaaaaaaw. What "core values" are on display here other than gay hate/homophobia?

Seriously, if humanity is still homophobic and intolerant in 2185, I think I'm going to side with the Reapers in ME3.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 14 avril 2010 - 04:07 .

[LiquidGrape]

Siansonea II wrote...
Seriously, if humanity is still homophobic and intolerant in 2185, I think I'm going to side with the Reapers in ME3.

Now that's a missive I can get behind.
Oh, if only Gene Roddenberry had been allowed more creative freedom...

[Temper_Graniteskul]

lastpatriot wrote...

Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

Seriously? So, you meant "my values" when you said "core values," then. To which there is only one answer, and it lies in the lack of a canon Shepard that's based solely on your personal values. My Shep isn't your Shep, and s/he doesn't have to be. Paragon Shep does not violate Renegade Shep, gay Shep doesn't affect straight Shep.

Because if we're talking about only allowing those Sheps who don't violate my "core values", Renegade goes right out the window. Hear that, all you people who enjoy Renegade or Renegon or even Paragade Shepards? You don't get to do that anymore, because the "core values" of Shepard deny you! Ha! Neener neener. No more shooting Conrad Verner in the foot for you.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 14 avril 2010 - 03:56 .

[Siansonea]

lastpatriot wrote...

You people have no sense of humor......

Sure we do. When humor is present, we respond to it. Troll behavior is not humorous.

[Mordigan]

OMG, this thread is still on the first page?!?
Well I'll say one thing.  You "queer pushers" get an A for effort in the persistence category.  Too bad it will all be for naught..
MaleShep will never be gay, because he's the James Bond of the Mass Effect Universe (as described by his creators).  It's against Bioware's interest to make him gay, as it would ruin his character appeal and integrity; especially if they want to eventually go the franchise route with Mass Effect.
Only FemShep can be gay/bisexual, and thats because she isn't considered canon the way MaleShep is.

[Ryzaki]

Mordigan wrote...

OMG, this thread is still on the first page?!?
Well I'll say one thing.  You "queer pushers" get an A for effort in the persistence category.  Too bad it will all be for naught..
MaleShep will never be gay, because he's the James Bond of the Mass Effect Universe (as described by his creators).  It's against Bioware's interest to make him gay, as it would ruin his character appeal and integrity; especially if they want to eventually go the franchise route with Mass Effect.
Only FemShep can be gay/bisexual, and thats because she isn't considered canon the way MaleShep is.

<_<

I'm getting sick of the FemShep isn't canon BS.

[Atomic Space Vixen]

lastpatriot wrote...

Shepard is supposed to be the iconic hero and dedicated soldier. To allow for same-sex romance would destory the core values of the character he/she was created to be.

So a gay man can't be an iconic hero or a dedicated soldier. I'll be sure to pass that on to all the dedicated soldiers who are gay (and firefighters and cops and every other gay man or woman who willingly puts their lives on the line for other people). Because, you know, if you're attracted to your own sex, then you can't have any values.

Were Bioware to change this aspect of the game for ME3, I for one would not buy it out of principal.

What's driving me nuts here is that by cutting the same-sex material that was already completed, Bioware is capitulating to bigotry.

Racist? Tough.
Misogynist? Well, we'll treat women as eye candy for you, but sorry, Shepard can still be female.
Homophobe? How can we make you more comfortable?

[Siansonea]

Mordigan wrote...

OMG, this thread is still on the first page?!?
Well I'll say one thing.  You "queer pushers" get an A for effort in the persistence category.  Too bad it will all be for naught..
MaleShep will never be gay, because he's the James Bond of the Mass Effect Universe (as described by his creators).  It's against Bioware's interest to make him gay, as it would ruin his character appeal and integrity; especially if they want to eventually go the franchise route with Mass Effect.
Only FemShep can be gay/bisexual, and thats because she isn't considered canon the way MaleShep is.

Your viewpoint seems to be the prevailing one at Bioware, so congratulations on your victory. With an attitude like this, you might be able to get a job as Ray Muzyka's assistant. You could help him write press releases.

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...

Mordigan wrote...

OMG, this thread is still on the first page?!?
Well I'll say one thing.  You "queer pushers" get an A for effort in the persistence category.  Too bad it will all be for naught..
MaleShep will never be gay, because he's the James Bond of the Mass Effect Universe (as described by his creators).  It's against Bioware's interest to make him gay, as it would ruin his character appeal and integrity; especially if they want to eventually go the franchise route with Mass Effect.
Only FemShep can be gay/bisexual, and thats because she isn't considered canon the way MaleShep is.

Your viewpoint seems to be the prevailing one at Bioware, so congratulations on your victory. With an attitude like this, you might be able to get a job as Ray Muzyka's assistant. You could help him write press releases.

That's a little harsh don't you think Siansonea. We don't know Muzyka was against it.

I mean as bad as his copout answers are he obviously didn't think about it too much so I'd peg him more "whatever" than for or against.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 avril 2010 - 04:45 .

[Servo to the bitter end]

Ryzaki wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Mordigan wrote...

OMG, this thread is still on the first page?!?
Well I'll say one thing.  You "queer pushers" get an A for effort in the persistence category.  Too bad it will all be for naught..
MaleShep will never be gay, because he's the James Bond of the Mass Effect Universe (as described by his creators).  It's against Bioware's interest to make him gay, as it would ruin his character appeal and integrity; especially if they want to eventually go the franchise route with Mass Effect.
Only FemShep can be gay/bisexual, and thats because she isn't considered canon the way MaleShep is.

Your viewpoint seems to be the prevailing one at Bioware, so congratulations on your victory. With an attitude like this, you might be able to get a job as Ray Muzyka's assistant. You could help him write press releases.

That's a little harsh don't you think Siansonea. We don't know Muzyka was against it.

I mean as bad as his copout answers are he obviously didn't think about it too much so I'd peg him more "whatever" than for or against.

Agreed, that was a little unnecessary. 

Not to mention, writing anyone's press release would require a grasp of grammar and syntax far beyond this guy.

[Ryzaki]

I actually feel kind of bad if Muzyka was neutral. Poor guy is probably like "I had a feeling something like this was going to happen and now I'm in the spotlight."



Add to the fact that a lot of the interviews are getting picked apart and contradict each other and he's probably all. "...why me?" 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 avril 2010 - 04:50 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Ryzaki wrote...

<_<

I'm getting sick of the FemShep isn't canon BS.

Indeed. I'm kind of sick of the assertion that the almighty peen makes for a single canon character, also. How is MShep 'canon' when he can make so many different choices and be so many different kinds of person? There's a default Shep, maybe even a 'canon' Shep for marketing purposes, but that's sure not who I'm playing. If nothing else, he keeps letting Ashley get Virmired, and I know that runs contrary to the default in ME2.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 14 avril 2010 - 05:01 .

[Servo to the bitter end]

As far as I'm concerned, the only "canon" thing about Shepard is Casey Hudson's positive affirmation that there IS NO "canon" Shepard, because this is clearly observable in the finished game.

Shepard is an N7 graduate and a Spectre. S/he was resurrected by Cerberus. Those are pretty much the only set-in-stone things you can say about Shepard.

[DigMatt]

Ryzaki wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

Why is it in the scifi section? Shouldn't it be in either historical fiction or fantasy? 

Because God could be an asari sitting on the cloud up there for all we know, hell, that might explain all the homophobic and prejadice rules that have stemmed out of 'taking a 2000 year old book, that we don't even know who actually wrote i might add, too litterally'

On topic though, i'm more of the 'i don't mind' people', it'd be great if s/s is an option mostly because the games supposed to be an RPG and most RPGs (Fable, KOTOR, DA) include homosexual content to appease all fans. The fact that Bioware has gone against what it has done for most if not all of its RPG games tells me that they have some muppets in the devs, although i have heard that it was a high up person that decided that the s/s wouldn't be in the ME series and that they vetoed every body in Bioware personally i think thats a load of BS, i thought the people at Bioware were adults not some little kids back at primary school too scared to challange a teacher for making an unfair decision/punishment.

Since i doubt that the devs would be such big push overs that one high up person can veto the lot of them i'd say that there's a few muppets among them, i mean we haven't actually been supplied with a real, good reason for Bioware not to include the content, infact in most interviews i've seen/heard of they try and dodge the question with a bunch of nonsense that doesn't answer the question at all which doesn't fill me with hope for ME3 or any other Bioware games for that matter because if they're gonna dodge this topic and leave it out against the fans wishes whos to say they wont do that for other things? They already took out quite a few RPG elements for ME2

Modifié par DigMatt, 14 avril 2010 - 05:30 .

[Siansonea]

Ryzaki wrote...

I actually feel kind of bad if Muzyka was neutral. Poor guy is probably like "I had a feeling something like this was going to happen and now I'm in the spotlight."



Add to the fact that a lot of the interviews are getting picked apart and contradict each other and he's probably all. "...why me?" 

Isn't Muzyka the CEO? The buck stops there, as far as I'm concerned. If the decision to omit the content was made by someone on the creative team, why was the content developed in the first place?

[spacehamsterZH]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm getting sick of the FemShep isn't canon BS.

But... but can't you see they only hired a voice actor to do the female Shepard, recorded x amount of lines in the game twice with the according pronouns and added different responses to male and female Shepards because you... you queer pushers with your homosexual agenda demanded it? Think of the children! Jennifer Hale destroys family values!

[Collider]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I actually feel kind of bad if Muzyka was neutral. Poor guy is probably like "I had a feeling something like this was going to happen and now I'm in the spotlight."



Add to the fact that a lot of the interviews are getting picked apart and contradict each other and he's probably all. "...why me?" 

Isn't Muzyka the CEO? The buck stops there, as far as I'm concerned. If the decision to omit the content was made by someone on the creative team, why was the content developed in the first place?

That's like saying, why was the concept art for Subject Zero having pink hair ever created in the first place? Creative works like games have basically everything going through phases of development. The first concept of a character may be very different from the end result. The third concept of a character may be very different from the end result.

[Siansonea]

Collider wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I actually feel kind of bad if Muzyka was neutral. Poor guy is probably like "I had a feeling something like this was going to happen and now I'm in the spotlight."



Add to the fact that a lot of the interviews are getting picked apart and contradict each other and he's probably all. "...why me?" 

Isn't Muzyka the CEO? The buck stops there, as far as I'm concerned. If the decision to omit the content was made by someone on the creative team, why was the content developed in the first place?

That's like saying, why was the concept art for Subject Zero having pink hair ever created in the first place? Creative works like games have basically everything going through phases of development. The first concept of a character may be very different from the end result. The third concept of a character may be very different from the end result.

We're not talking about concept art here, we're talking fully produced content. Your analogy is not applicable.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Siansonea II wrote...

We're not talking about concept art here, we're talking fully produced content. Your analogy is not applicable.

To be fair, I'm not sure if it was fully produced.  But it does look like it was 90% of the way there before they pulled the plug in ME1.  The dialog was clearly finished though.