7455 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Wittand25 wrote...
Even on earth there are species ( seahorses), where the males get pregnant but per definition an monosexual race like the asari is biologically female, ofcourse that would not keep them from looking, sounding and behaving from human males and therefore be considerd male.

Yeah, tricky.  It's funny, 'cause an oft-repeated argument on this thread (and others on this topic) was, basically, "Gay dudes are a joke. Can't take 'em seriously."  Well, think of pregnant men in film, TV, whatever: that really is almost always played for comedy, outside of a few examples in written SF (that I know of anyway). Even the odd Star Trek episode that pulled it usually played it mostly for comedy.  It'd be very cool if BW (or anyone, really) pulled it off, but so, so easy to mess up.  The only quasi-example I can think of is Alien Nation (the series).  The males carried the child after a certain point, but there was a bunch of other bizarre alien biology going on with a 2nd type of rare male assisting in fertilization, what was implied to be a radically different anatomy, and a pseudo-marsupial/seahorse thing with the "pregnant" father after a transfer from the mother.  There were jokes, of course, as the series traded a lot on the various differences with humans, but it was treated fairly seriously for the most part.  Far cry from an all-male race, though.

[didymos1120]

BrianWilly wrote...

Oh, an all-female race definitely already exists on Earth. We even know how it is that they reproduce without males, too; it's bizarrely similar to how the Asari do it, in fact.

Yeah, those lizards are cool, especially how they arose through hybridization.  I'm basically convinced someone at BioWare used that for inspiration, and that it may even be why Asari seem to have those scales on the scalp. 


ETA:  Komodo dragons are known to be parthenogenetic sometimes too. Strangely, when they go that route, only males result or the egg just won't develop.  What I kinda wonder is if Asari had a bisexual (in the technical biology sense) stage in their past.  Seems like males must have existed at some point during their evolution, and just became obsolete.  Be kinda cool if some weird, throwback male infant appeared.  It'd make a good Cerberus Network news item.

Modifié par didymos1120, 26 février 2010 - 10:57 .

[didymos1120]

OK, heading off after this, but check it out: an "Asari" mouse (sorta, but good enough).

[Yana Montana]

I support the OP and I also want to see M/M romance in ME3.



Still can't understand those folks, who said that making Tali bi will "ruin the game". Nobody said Tali is hetero and the first time she talked to my FemShep about Quarian trust and intimacy I thought "Wow! How sweet, Tali. You like me." I was so excited and thought may be BW just made it an Easter Egg romance or smth and was looking forward for continuation. But there was none. ;-(



I think BW must do a character who is gay only. Though the idea of having already established character who realizes s/he has feelings for Shepard who just happened to be of same sex is interesting (and I'm looking at you, Kaidan).

[Jewsapalewsa]

Has anyone ever considered that maybe shepard can be as gay as the day is long, there are just no gay male squadmates?  Honestly, If I have a desire to have a romantic relationship with a dude, but all the men in my life are strait, that doesn't mean I'm suddenly not allowed to be gay, that just means that just means I am still just as gay, I'm just pretty frickin unlucky because I have no gay men to socialize with. 

[Wittand25]

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

Has anyone ever considered that maybe shepard can be as gay as the day is long, there are just no gay male squadmates?  Honestly, If I have a desire to have a romantic relationship with a dude, but all the men in my life are strait, that doesn't mean I'm suddenly not allowed to be gay, that just means that just means I am still just as gay, I'm just pretty frickin unlucky because I have no gay men to socialize with. 

Considering the squadmates are not created by picking random persons out of a phonebook and coping their personality and appearance into the game, but are written with the intention of fullfilling a role (like comic relief, the pretty one, the aggresive one,  ...) and/or also to work as LI  it is not to much to ask from Bioware to create one npc  that works as LI for a gay Shepard.

Modifié par Wittand25, 26 février 2010 - 01:10 .

[Arik7]

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

Has anyone ever considered that maybe shepard can be as gay as the day is long, there are just no gay male squadmates?  Honestly, If I have a desire to have a romantic relationship with a dude, but all the men in my life are strait, that doesn't mean I'm suddenly not allowed to be gay, that just means that just means I am still just as gay, I'm just pretty frickin unlucky because I have no gay men to socialize with. 

Okay, how realistic is that the hero of the galaxy has problems finding a same-sex partner and must remain celibate throughout his jorney?   It is not a problem IRL for regular people, so why is this an issue in the Mass Effect 2 Universe, which has no indication that gay males exist.  Yet, there's a whole alien race of bisexual women, and a bisexual female secretary.

[Jewsapalewsa]

Wittand25 wrote...

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

Has anyone ever considered that maybe shepard can be as gay as the day is long, there are just no gay male squadmates?  Honestly, If I have a desire to have a romantic relationship with a dude, but all the men in my life are strait, that doesn't mean I'm suddenly not allowed to be gay, that just means that just means I am still just as gay, I'm just pretty frickin unlucky because I have no gay men to socialize with. 

Considering the squadmates are not created by picking random persons out of a phonebook and coping their personality and appearance into the game, but are written with the intention of fullfilling a role (like comic relief, the pretty one, the aggrasive one,  ...) and/or also towork as LI  it is not to much to ask from Bioware to create one npc  that works as LI for a gay Shepard.

I understand that the squadmates are not just randomized, but maybe the character concepts simply did not jive with be ******.  (I'm not saying ****** to be offensive, but if anyone is that sensitive, I'm really not that concerned if they get their feelings hurt.)  I'm alos not saying that it would be impossible to write a ****** character.  All I as saying is that all of the people who claim that Bioware is in some way claiming that shepard cannot be gay by not making a squady ****** is wrong.  Maybe there are just no homos to be had. 

[Apophis2412]

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Jewsapalewsa wrote...

Has anyone ever considered that maybe shepard can be as gay as the day is long, there are just no gay male squadmates?  Honestly, If I have a desire to have a romantic relationship with a dude, but all the men in my life are strait, that doesn't mean I'm suddenly not allowed to be gay, that just means that just means I am still just as gay, I'm just pretty frickin unlucky because I have no gay men to socialize with. 

Considering the squadmates are not created by picking random persons out of a phonebook and coping their personality and appearance into the game, but are written with the intention of fullfilling a role (like comic relief, the pretty one, the aggrasive one,  ...) and/or also towork as LI  it is not to much to ask from Bioware to create one npc  that works as LI for a gay Shepard.

I understand that the squadmates are not just randomized, but maybe the character concepts simply did not jive with be ******.  (I'm not saying ****** to be offensive, but if anyone is that sensitive, I'm really not that concerned if they get their feelings hurt.)  I'm alos not saying that it would be impossible to write a ****** character.  All I as saying is that all of the people who claim that Bioware is in some way claiming that shepard cannot be gay by not making a squady ****** is wrong.  Maybe there are just no homos to be had. 

John Shepard is by far the most famous person in the galaxy. How difficult would it be for him to find someone to have a relationship with?

[Jewsapalewsa]

Apophis2412 wrote...
 

John Shepard is by far the most famous person in the galaxy. How difficult would it be for him to find someone to have a relationship with?

In real life, you would be absolutely right.  My renegade shepard would pull into port and not leave until at least a dozen women had drained him of all bodily fluids.  But in game terms, can you imagine the headache of random hookups, or even deep relationships with a non major character?   If Bioware were to do any kind of romance, it should defintly be a squady.

[Apophis2412]

Some general points:

My personal opinion on 'homosexuality':  I'm fairly neutral about the whole subject. I agree that they should be treated the same as any other person and that currently they are oppressed.

However I'm not in favor of 'positive discrimination' (giving them more priviliges and/ or rights because they were oppressed/ discriminated against.)


Must BW include gay romance in ME3? Is it our right? 

No. Bioware can do whatever they want with their games. We may offer suggestions about how they should make their game, but we don't have any final say in these matters.


Should gay romance be included so that BW can show how 'progressive'or modern they are?

No. BW's job is to make money not start a discussion about the issues plaging modern society.


Should it be included because the fans demand it?

If more than enough fans demand it than it should be included. If it's just a small minority than, no.


Does gay romance fit with ME's storyline?

Yes. The game is set more than 150 years into our future. One would think that we had solved these issues by then.

[SirGladiator]

Given that all the romances in the game (like pretty much all of the rest of the game) are gender neutral from a dialogue standpoint, it would've been incredibly easy for them to know whether you preferred the male romance options or the female romance options just based on your imported character, at least for FemShep players. Giving plalyers who romanced Liara nothing but male romance options is every bit as insane as it would be to give players who romanced Kaiden nothing but female ones. Common sense can make things so much nicer .

[Lightice_av]

No. Bioware can do whatever they want with their games. We may offer suggestions about how they should make their game, but we don't have any final say in these matters.

Naturally, but they must agree that they've gone their way to carter some incredibly exotic options but ignored this particular one. I still have hard time believing that more people would be into turians than into their own gender.

[Apophis2412]

Lightice_av wrote...

No. Bioware can do whatever they want with their games. We may offer suggestions about how they should make their game, but we don't have any final say in these matters.

Naturally, but they must agree that they've gone their way to carter some incredibly exotic options but ignored this particular one. I still have hard time believing that more people would be into turians than into their own gender.

It's not that hard to comprehend. People like Garrus because of his personality and the fact that he is male. The fact that he is a Turian is not important. Subconsiously they treat him as a human male. Or have you ever heard anyone comment on Garrus' sexy talons, mandibles or scales?

Combine with the fact that only 10% percent of our species are gay and it is not that hard to imagine that more people like Garrus than their own sex.

[Lightice_av]

Or have you ever heard anyone comment on Garrus' sexy talons, mandibles or scales?

Actually I have. Yes, I find it as wierd as you.

And you have to admit that relations with an alien whose very body chemistry is toxic to humans is most certainly wierder than homosexuality.

[Jewsapalewsa]

Lightice_av wrote...

No. Bioware can do whatever they want with their games. We may offer suggestions about how they should make their game, but we don't have any final say in these matters.

Naturally, but they must agree that they've gone their way to carter some incredibly exotic options but ignored this particular one. I still have hard time believing that more people would be into turians than into their own gender.

I will start with a disclaimer that I do not hate gay people, I am cool with their existance, I just find the idea of two dudes together one of the grossest things I have ever thought of.

I don't find it that hard to believe either, strange, but not that hard to believe.  When My older brother was telling me about Jeffrey Dahmer, I heard about how he had sex with dead bodies, kept human body parts as trohies, and ate people without being too phased, but when he told me it was with guys, I got a little nauseous.  I myself think that this is unhealthy, but its true.  I can see myself being able to have sex with a female krogan before another dude.   

[Apophis2412]

Lightice_av wrote...

Or have you ever heard anyone comment on Garrus' sexy talons, mandibles or scales?

Actually I have. Yes, I find it as wierd as you.
And you have to admit that relations with an alien whose very body chemistry is toxic to humans is most certainly wierder than homosexuality.

Biologically we are designed to mate with people of the other sex. It is therefore not suprising that people fall in love with Garrus.


Or maybe it's just because having sex with an alien is so 'exotic'' ? In the past decaded homosexuality has become less and less controversial. Perhaps alien sex is just so popular because it is a taboo?

Modifié par Apophis2412, 26 février 2010 - 12:38 .

[Wittand25]

Apophis2412 wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

Or have you ever heard anyone comment on Garrus' sexy talons, mandibles or scales?

Actually I have. Yes, I find it as wierd as you.
And you have to admit that relations with an alien whose very body chemistry is toxic to humans is most certainly wierder than homosexuality.

Biologically we are designed to mate with people of the other sex. It is therefore not suprising that people fall in love with Garrus.


Or maybe it's just because having sex with an alien is so 'exotic'' ? In the past decaded homosexuality has become less and less controversial. Perhaps alien sex is just so popular because it is a taboo?

No I think your first idea that most people see him as subconscionly as human in the game is true (but there are always some peaple with strange tastes). But if humankind ever makes contact with turianlike aliens I am 100% certain that the number of those willing to engage in an intimate relationship with an alian would be way smaller than the number of homosexuals.

Modifié par Wittand25, 26 février 2010 - 12:52 .

[Apophis2412]

Yes. Just as right now, the number of people attracted to animals or even our closest living relatives, the chimpansee, gorilla or urang-utan is significantly lower than the number of homosexuals.

Modifié par Apophis2412, 26 février 2010 - 01:01 .

[Sylwia94]

 I fully agree with OP and support this thread 100%. If anyone want know full view about this matter just read first post in my thread. . I still think it's disgusting sexism or hipocrisy if they added lesbians but don't added gays. We want have choice in sexual orientation of Male Shepard in the same way as Female Shepard has! 
 
 And if anyone wants to repeat this nonsense like that "they includes f/f but no m/m because F/Fs are more accepted by society" just please don't say anything and stop compromising yourself. We all except some teen boys knows it's bull**** and most of girls want see m/m same as boys f/f, so it's just depend by gender of person who speak and in matters more serious(like adoption or marriage) than seeing two guys/girls making out, homosexual ppls always have same rights irrespective of their gender, so it's bull**** in all matters.

I hope after this thread BW finally will see what they customers want and give us what we want in ME2 and in future also in ME3! 

@edit
Wow, I thought bull**** is not the swearword, sorry.

Modifié par Sylwia94, 26 février 2010 - 12:54 .

[Apophis2412]

Sylwia94 wrote...

 I fully agree with OP and support this thread 100%. If anyone want know full view about this matter just read first post in my thread. . I still think it's disgusting sexism or hipocrisy if they added lesbians but don't added gays. We want have choice in sexual orientation of Male Shepard in the same way as Female Shepard has! 
 
 And if anyone wants to repeat this nonsense like that "they includes f/f but no m/m because F/Fs are more accepted by society" just please don't say anything and stop compromising yourself. We all except some teen boys knows it's bull**** and most of girls want see m/m same as boys f/f, so it's just depend by gender of person who speak and in matters more serious(like adoption or marriage) than seeing two guys/girls making out, homosexual ppls always have same rights irrespective of their gender, so it's bull**** in all matters.

I hope after this thread BW finally will see what they customers want and give us what we want in ME2 and in future also in ME3! 

 Perhaps f/f was included because most players are heterosexual males?

[Sylwia94]

Apophis2412 wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

 I fully agree with OP and support this thread 100%. If anyone want know full view about this matter just read first post in my thread. . I still think it's disgusting sexism or hipocrisy if they added lesbians but don't added gays. We want have choice in sexual orientation of Male Shepard in the same way as Female Shepard has! 
 
 And if anyone wants to repeat this nonsense like that "they includes f/f but no m/m because F/Fs are more accepted by society" just please don't say anything and stop compromising yourself. We all except some teen boys knows it's bull**** and most of girls want see m/m same as boys f/f, so it's just depend by gender of person who speak and in matters more serious(like adoption or marriage) than seeing two guys/girls making out, homosexual ppls always have same rights irrespective of their gender, so it's bull**** in all matters.

I hope after this thread BW finally will see what they customers want and give us what we want in ME2 and in future also in ME3! 

 Perhaps f/f was included because most players are heterosexual males?

Yes, and thats why I feel discriminated as heterosexual girl... Nowaday much of us play games too.

Modifié par Sylwia94, 26 février 2010 - 12:56 .

[Apophis2412]

Sylwia94 wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

 I fully agree with OP and support this thread 100%. If anyone want know full view about this matter just read first post in my thread. . I still think it's disgusting sexism or hipocrisy if they added lesbians but don't added gays. We want have choice in sexual orientation of Male Shepard in the same way as Female Shepard has! 
 
 And if anyone wants to repeat this nonsense like that "they includes f/f but no m/m because F/Fs are more accepted by society" just please don't say anything and stop compromising yourself. We all except some teen boys knows it's bull**** and most of girls want see m/m same as boys f/f, so it's just depend by gender of person who speak and in matters more serious(like adoption or marriage) than seeing two guys/girls making out, homosexual ppls always have same rights irrespective of their gender, so it's bull**** in all matters.

I hope after this thread BW finally will see what they customers want and give us what we want in ME2 and in future also in ME3! 

 Perhaps f/f was included because most players are heterosexual males?

Yes, and thats why I feel discriminated as heterosexual girl... Nowaday much of us play games too.

Discrimination would imply they didn't include m/m because they are homophobic.

In reality I think they didn't include it because the game would have sold less. That is not discrimination, but just a business descision.

[Lightice_av]

In reality I think they didn't include it because the game would have sold less. That is not discrimination, but just a business descision.

The game would not have sold less. Dragon Age is a direct, clear proof that M/M content does not in fact lower a good game's sales. Most people would barely have noticed or cared, while a significant minority consumer base might have taken interest in the game. With luck there might have been a small scandal, though Dragon Age didn't get one, that would have brought extra publicity to the game, which always leads to even greater sales.

Mass Effect has a major female playerbase, who in turn contain a fairly major part who like to play as male Shepard, and would like to be cartered to something in their interests, as well. The times when teenaged boys were the only ones to buy video games are long past.



Your argument does not hold water in face of the facts available. The most likely explanation for the omission is still time-constraints, and these threads seek to make sure that the option won't be pushed so far back in the schedule again that it has to be left out in the end.

[Sylwia94]

Apophis2412 wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Sylwia94 wrote...

 I fully agree with OP and support this thread 100%. If anyone want know full view about this matter just read first post in my thread. . I still think it's disgusting sexism or hipocrisy if they added lesbians but don't added gays. We want have choice in sexual orientation of Male Shepard in the same way as Female Shepard has! 
 
 And if anyone wants to repeat this nonsense like that "they includes f/f but no m/m because F/Fs are more accepted by society" just please don't say anything and stop compromising yourself. We all except some teen boys knows it's bull**** and most of girls want see m/m same as boys f/f, so it's just depend by gender of person who speak and in matters more serious(like adoption or marriage) than seeing two guys/girls making out, homosexual ppls always have same rights irrespective of their gender, so it's bull**** in all matters.

I hope after this thread BW finally will see what they customers want and give us what we want in ME2 and in future also in ME3! 

 Perhaps f/f was included because most players are heterosexual males?

Yes, and thats why I feel discriminated as heterosexual girl... Nowaday much of us play games too.

Discrimination would imply they didn't include m/m because they are homophobic.

In reality I think they didn't include it because the game would have sold less. That is not discrimination, but just a business descision.

Nonsense, it's up to player what he/she does and no one will don't buy that good game just because you can be gay. In rl you can be gay too and did you kill yourself because you can? Just like rl you should have a choice. An sorry but for me if they did f/f option to satisfy male players but don't did m/m option to satisfy female players fot me it's sexism, hipocrysy or whatever you want call it. If you wanna repaet nonsenses just look on DAO, this game are selling very, very good and does matter you can be gay there.

Lightice_av wrote...

In
reality I think they didn't include it because the game would have sold
less. That is not discrimination, but just a business descision.

The
game would not have sold less. Dragon Age is a direct, clear proof that
M/M content does not in fact lower a good game's sales. Most people
would barely have noticed or cared, while a significant minority
consumer base might have taken interest in the game. With luck there
might have been a small scandal, though Dragon Age didn't get one, that
would have brought extra publicity to the game, which always leads to
even greater sales.
Mass Effect has a major female playerbase, who
in turn contain a fairly major part who like to play as male Shepard,
and would like to be cartered to something in their interests, as well.
The times when teenaged boys were the only ones to buy video games are
long past. 

100% of truth, agreed 

Modifié par Sylwia94, 26 février 2010 - 01:07 .